regfootball

Ford has to be making coin on this car. MSRP close to 32? A base Fusion S can be had with all available incentives (including lease renewal rebate) for around 15,000. So its not costing Ford less than 15 to make the car, and then add on for the hybrid and other tech equipment. The profits from the hybrid are probably carrying the profits for the entire Fusion line. Or conversely, at least they are making enough profit from the Escape and Fusion hybrids to make the hybrid program profitable. Hybrid interest has waned so much in the last year or two now, I wouldn't be surprised if the Escape and Fusion are the only two cars Ford will have in its hybrid stable for a LONG time.

facepalms, anyone? toyota ought to talk, considering what they help participate in in Japan. and how much tax money has Toyota stolen from state and local governments to set up their shops here, only to build life threatening vehicles and to lie to the public and cover up the fuqup trail? and things like fire temps at 23 months into a 24 month contract to direct hire. and 0% for 60 months on your whole line so its begging you to buy their unsafe vehicles? Notice how Toyota's TV commercials now re: the recall have this very soothing yet creepy monotone female voice talking at you like you hear in all those futuristic sci fi movies where everyone is under control of the socialist state? Almost like trying to hypnotize everyone with subliminal messages....

i've worked plenty of my life in retail. the reason you clearance product is so it goes away so you can replace it with stuff that will sell and make profit. this is a case of trying to stir up trouble.

comment on the steering wheel. to me, the thing is HUGE, is shaped odd, is off center from its rotation point, has the big fat cover on it, and the controls on it seem oriented away from the natural angle of your fingers.

if we as a country lose our ability to make $h!, it weakens us from a national security at some point as nations will catch us with our pants down. just like why we subsidize food and agriculture. the last thing we want is for us to lose the ability to make our own food, and have to buy all our food elsewhere. And wallah, the other nation is control of us. I am a product of the big real estate bust but what follows is not about that, a guy i worked with when we both got unemp. he latched on to a position with a 'startup company'. Ok, not really a startup in the true sense of the world. Through a connection of his wife's, he was given a chance to be a part of a cost saving endeavor for a quite well to do big cat. Said big cat had been expanding an office for one of his businesses and was not pleased with the amount of $$$ it was going to require to furnish the place. Said person had experience in overseas manufacturing and product development....didn't want to pay for something here so he decided to start a subcompany that would make and sell office systems and furniture. The only goal of this endeavor was merely to make duplicates of what is on the market now but simply to make knockoffs, make them in China, ship it back here, undercut the long established competition (decades in business), and do that. I actually got invited to look at some of the prototypes. There was some flaws but clearly it is within their capability to sell the product they are making. The ONLY reason they have the chance to even gain entry or to exist here is due to the imbalance in labor. There is no ability for this start up to produce a better product right now, or have better service support and distribution. The ONLY competitive advantage is the cheap labor overseas. The theory then is what? We have to move on to other specialized things that we can do and that they conceivably can't and therefore it all evens out and everything is hunky dory? DO Y'ALL KNOW HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE ARE IN CHINA than here? It's an endless buffet of cheap labor that we have no ability to offset in any way, shape or form. So, to recap, once this stuff starts to sell, then the other established companies are left cutting staff and there are no jobs with the new startup to replace them. Those who have lived high on the hog off of computers and internet, the days of reckoning keep coming. Another friend in IT is losing his job soon (he gets actual lead time before his last day!) due to outsourcing (to Canada of all places)........I also know of someone who lost IT outsourcing to India last year. I met a nice neighbor at the kids playground one day last summer who was an engineer with a local company as a contractor and his work got outsourced overseas and guess what....since he contracted he didn't think he would be able to get unemployment. He was a majority of his family's income and most certainly they were probably going to be forced out. He had no immediate prospects to help keep his family afloat. Tonight I had a couple with some ex coworkers. My buddy told me the story of how his dad provided for his family (engineer degree but was never got professional certification and therefore was mostly a technical specialist), paid for the house, the cars, the health care, taxes, the education, on one salary and were able to do saving and investing. Things you would not be able to do anymore because for one, the pay for that job would be horse$h!, and two, the job wouldn't exist probably either because it would probably be outsourced so some exec could be bonused for the 'cost savings' of outsourcing. Never mind that the outsourcing probably created new hassles and inefficiencies and reduced quality because of the problems of language, time change, being remote, all that. This is supposed to make it better? We're losing all these jobs, there is nothing to replace it. The thing about computers, IT, 'technology', those things had their heyday where they siphoned so much cash off the top of companies money flow for so long. The value that computers and technology has brought to companies in the past was worth it, but we've really crossed a threshold now where computers and software and technology is as much of a liability and overhead and cash drain on businesses as anything. That is where part of the desire to outsource comes from, but it also says to me that companies are getting smart and realizing that the supposed productivity gains of trying to invest so much in all of that constantly is becoming a questionable business proposition. I would guess the business cases to justify the amount and level of technology based functions and hardware are getting tougher and tougher to prove. Irregardless, I only see the market for the outsourcing in that industry increasing, and to be honest there is no emerging subset of the economy that can offset the losses in that sector. And POOF, another industry goes away.. We used to make consumer electronics here. What replaced that? Interesting thing to ponder. My sister graduated with an engineering degree in the late 80's and IIRC she started in the job market at something over or close to 40 grand. The thing is almost 25 years later is she graduated with the same degree and took the same job she probably would still only get the 40 or close to it as starting pay. This is the kind of thing O-boi is making points on. WE'RE NOT MAKING WHAT WE USED TO. I can easily make a list of 100 people I know who are making a bunch less than they did a few years ago. I would have to struggle to make a list of 10-15 people I know who I know for sure are making more now than they did 3-5 years ago.

O-boi is hitting lots of nails on the head here. Stupid are the people that think we can exist only as a 'service economy', and just on intellectual properties, consulting, non profit agenda groups, paper pushing, marketing, communications, financing, insurance, investments. Part of the economy needs to be a vibrant manufacturing sector, building things, making things as well. I won't even get into the class warfare stuff, but yeah, 90% of the people in this country have less earnings and wealth and ability to prosper these days. Free trade as a pure ideal is a nice idea but we are getting owned as a nation by whoring out our economy to all the other nations. Our top 1-2% of people who live her profit financially from it, the rest of us end up getting ass fked because of it.

mpg! LOL. i would be interested in your impressions on the interior. its improved, but i still don't think its anything but midpack....except i think the seats are really good. also, your impressions of interior space and trunk space. also, because its a hybrid, i assume the handling is dumbed down for the green set. or not?

I'd like to know, too. Ziebart sometimes has some specials to have the inside and outside detailed for really cheap. The next time I sell a vehicle, I have considered having them do a full detail before I sell it.

the latest gen ones go more for posh. its a theme that seems to attract flies on poop on the new SRX (at the autoshow the SRX was a hit with the old folks and yuppies). but for a performance minded bunch, the CTSv is too pricey. there is not enough of an every mans sport look to the reg CTS.

have fun with it! let us know your impressions on the interior, and the visibility and blind spots etc. I have heard folks gripe about the trunk, but it doesn't seem to me like the trunk is really that bad is it?

i was just reading the local paper on line the story about toyota and of course the user comments. what is really SCARY is the absolute allegiance so many people still have to this lying company. the same ones saying that toyota is an American company!

intrepid looks fantastic, DF.....! what kind of wheels are those again?

next vette needs one AWD version in some way. and you are correct as long as the vette has to be linked to truck engines then GM is kind of in a box.

is the 911 turbo AWD as well?

the cover up is the issue.

Oh, I'm not looking at buying the Lucerne right now. It might be a possibility if I traded the Taurus X in to lease a Lucerne and stacking some incentives might be of a financial incentive for awhile. Its possible later in the year if there are some Lucernes rotting on lots and there are similar incentives then the Lucerne might be a worthwhile replacement for my Aztek, in either new or used form, which is why i am researching them now. I had never considered them before, but to be honest you cannot find a lot of cars with this kind of room anymore. I have a hard time putting down big money on something like a Fusion or a Malibu if a more robust Lucerne could be attainable at similar cost. That was how i bought my Aztek......lots of stackable incentives on a most certainly not popular or hot selling GM model near the end of its production = saved me a buttload of money vs what all the other kiddies were buying. Ugly yes, but the miles in that thing have been so inexpensive between low price and not having to fix anything so far. I do like the new Regal most of anything right now but I don't see the Regal Turbo being affordable for me anytime soon. I am not averse to small cars but there is a level of impractical about them i have to make sure I don't overpay. Your cobalt example is a good one. I have a comfort level with a cobalt since i like the car, but most importantly it can be had for a great price. My Aztek right now still has some market value.......still runs well but there will be a point fast approaching where it will need a whole new round of investment, tires, brakes, possible transmission work, belts, hoses, A/C, battery, struts and shocks........and for me to invest in all of that when it has no net increase to the value of the vehicle......the taurus x will need tires and brakes soon too. So this is why I am contemplating some sort of move on one of the vehicles this year. I just want to know if the Lucerne will be something that will fill the bill if a too good to pass up deal presents itself. As when, a desperate sales guy calls with something too good to pass up...... One advantage Buick has....FOUR year, 50k BTB warranty.........

from what i've researched, it seems like the 3.5 in the impala gets way better mileage than in say, the G6.......

x2. the thing about the new CTS......stay with me here.........its a little too luxury biased in terms of styling and such. the last gen CTS had some attitude the new one lacks. the new ones looks a bit flabby, the last gen one looks scrappy.

what color do they have? actually, i have relation that live down in AZ and he is a car buyer / dealer and buys a few hundred cars a year for dealers or to sell himself. He told my father in law recently that the Lucernes you can get off the auction are very nice and a good value. I know that means the resale is what it is, but the MSRps are outrageous to begin with.

yes. the only epsilon HF car i've driven is the aura, and that 3.6 has nuts. but i do know its a thirsty engine. absolutely this is a comparison between v6's. now, using edmunds user reviews as a guide....what i see across the several cars with the 3.9 is that it really doesn't get great mpg. however, out of all the cars that HAVE the 3.9....the Lucerne is among the better. The 3.5 in the Impala is the mpg champ since the 3.8 was put away. The Lucerne gets a bit less with the 3.9 than the 3.8. However, I have never really liked the 3.8. And to be honest the flex fuel option Intrigues me. There is 5+ E85 pumps in town here where i live and the state corn growers association office is here. The only reason flex fuel intrigues me is because lets say your tank is empty but you just want to put in a couple gallons to get you through til payday. You can save a couple bucks, keep your miles down for a little, and then go back to reg gas as needed.

perhaps you best be figuring out how to glue Buick badges on them now. lol

who has the Astra? stick or auto?

my dad just sold his 92 seville, that thing was a tank, too. almost twenty years old, and yeah it wasn't new but GM at least put plenty of solid sheetmetal in those large cars. i should mention that part of what makes the Lucerne pricing good right now for Saturn or Pontiac owners is that its an extra 2 grand as opposed to 1 grand on the malibu, and of course, not everyone is a saturn or pontiac owner either. to be honest, even 2 grand in my opinion is not much considering they shut down the brand. how about 5 grand? now that's showing appreciation. 2 grand won't barely pay sales tax on the lucerne.

i like the Malibu. but its merely a competent light duty midsize. at the price its at, its a good buy. as far as the Lucerne, its generally been overpriced in the MSRP department however, it looks like it might be a good incentivized value at the end of its run. and like the mid-late nineties GM large cars and cars like the DTS etc. it will still feel like a tank 10 years from now.

the altima was a CVT. to its credit (4 cyl), the car had balls, the tranny was responsive and really didn't give away that it was a CVT, and its NVH was pretty good actually. it was just dull. of course, the idea, the Lucerne NVH i would assume would be much better in cabin quiet. by long haul, i mean say a 500 mile trip. could you count on it to touch 30 or at least consistently match the 27? I know the northstar will get the 27 if not closer to 30. in my estimation, as far as interior, Buick should have invested in an instrument panel redo for the Lucerne. The door panels are actually pretty good (even if the wood is fake). Lucerne's leather is quite good. LaCrosse leather and plastic to be kind is mediocre for its class.