regfootball

no opels?

the lacrosse is a great blend of size and space. I've driven the Taurus and the LaCrosse, both are commodious, but the LaCrosse does feel more nimble and lighter. today, if you held a gun to my head, i might pick the lacrosse. tomorrow i would pick the regal. Just like, should i choose between my 77 century coupe and 77 buick electra.

Beautiful! Many congratulations!

lol. i was at the buick lot today. safe to say the lacrosse has more sprawl than the regal. i can't pick between the two. DAMMIT

they probably are...LOL

I've test driven the Sonata twice and came within a whisker of leasing one. The ONLY reason I bought my cobalt instead of leasing the Sonata was because I didn't want to sign a contract for a set time on the lease. With the buy, I had enough equity that if I needed to bail on the car at any time, I could do it. My only real complaint regarding the Sonata is road noise (which many mags and websites have mentioned) and some more fine tuning is needed on the powertrain (not unlike the same behavior my Ford 500 had and I tolerated). Sonata gives every impression that you get more than you pay in just about any way you check it. At 5 grand more, you cannot say the same thing. For an extra 2 grand and a turbo though, the value still exists. The TL and TSX by the way, a couple Hondas I am not disagreeable to. The TL and TSX represent really what the Honda brand products ought to be instead of the really cheap Accords and such. The best part about the superHondas now, the meat slicer grille. Comes in handy when guests are over and I need to slice a few off the tenderloin.........it doesn't do veggies real well though........ Honda has to sell the TL and TSX as Acuras because they probably would lose money on them at Accord price points. But they are more Honda to me than Luxury products. I like their interiors but they don't measure up totally to the best in the lux segment to command a superhigh price. my web site research for mpg is usually fueleconomy.gov and truedelta.com which i trust, as well as edmunds, aol autos, and fan forums of various car sites. for example, saturnfans.com was where i found out how peace poor mpg the most recent gen saturn vue got for mpg. It's what forced me to reconsider getting one. 15 mpg for a small cuv is unacceptable. besides think about it. the epa combined on one level of the non turbo sonata is like 28 mpg. if the only number you trust is epa, 28 combined is pretty darn good.

how the Regal escapes the scrutiny here...... it's not marketed as a family sedan, it's marketed as a personal car and a 'German' sports sedan. So people are supposed to forgive the lack of space because of this. Some will, some won't. It sort of gets back to what i said, if size is an issue, the LaCrosse will be there for you. I still think the LaCrosse then needs to upgrade its interior to match the Regal. More mpg would be nice. Remember that the Regal has a fairly large weight penalty vs. the Sonata. Weight is still the largest factor in mpg from what i have observed over time. But often too I do wait to see what real world owners report once they get their cars. Sometimes the mpg is better and sometimes not. Two cars which are reporting good mpg are the new Legacy and the Sonata. The Kia Optima will end up getting the same mpg as the sonata. It really is a question if the Regal's perceived value is good enough to advance it to that next class of scrutiny where mpg is not that big of deal. The Regal still has better mpg than the LaCrosse. On the heavier cars and crossovers, GM's DOHC v6's get really bad mpg from all the research I have done.

you know I gotta give ya credit for being loyal to your place of residence and trying to address this stuff in a systematic way with counterpoints. So I do respect some of the points you're making. I think you address these points better a lot better than the folks on GMI. Regarding the environment though, i am not talking 3 hour commutes. That sort of phenomenon is insane and is more common in CA. I am referring to the 'let's pack up the shop and move it to another state, with more economical labor and less restrictive env laws, so we can at least make money'.

nice writeup. I had heard the manual fusions got 30 mpg but the auto getting close to that is good news also. nice point about the 6 vs 4 cyl though. the tradeoff lots of buyers are making now going to 4's is less gusto when on the gas. in my malibu test drives i noted some of same behavior that you pointed out.

Businesses do need to be held accountable for illegal polution and the laws regarding that do need to be mediated over time. States need to protect their interests from companies that are not good players. But there is a middle ground where you can get companies to continuously improve themselves with regard to the environment, but not so restrictive that its a huge drain on their bottom line. That is why my 'spread the pollution around' was taken out of context and misunderstood. What I am saying is, if a company can move a manufacturing facility or something of that ilk to a more remote area where the pollution is less harmful and affects far less people, while still providing jobs and at a cheaper cost to the company, then maybe its appropriate for that company to do that. So if your region has high cost of employment, and cannot tolerate the pollution, then perhaps its best for all involved if that company takes its economic engine elsewhere, where they can attempt to meet the environmental standards and do it at a cost that still allows them to make profit. You can't expect a company to have limitless funds to address only the environment. Especially when health care and energy costs and taxes are going through the roof. But understand then you lose all the economic benefits of that company leaving and not contributing to YOUR economy.

both in denial.....the bubble has to burst.......you can continue to cling to the brass ladder.....but its not all peaches and cream. if California did secede, you might find applause from the other 90%....and you probably would have to hire a military for yourself, considering how many anti military types from Berkeley and such want to steer your public policy. All I am saying is get off your high horse. Your own inflated economy was self created, and it too can be subject to a bubble. If all you have to hang your hat on is inflated values of everything, since its all relative, it doesn't make it exactly prosperous. If in order to sustain you have to import all your water, power, and depend on illegals for the cheap jobs, that is a microeconomy in imbalance. Last I checked, its the United States of America, not United States of California. It is true what hyper suggested, there could be a more tactful and balanced approach to your legislative ways and how you approach the interaction with the rest of your country. Sure your interests need to be protected. But when your problems are self created to a large extent, sometimes it makes more sense to find inward solutions first and take care of the family that way. Trust me, I know plenty of people who are friends or I have worked with that moved out to CA for the weather and such or for work and lots of them come back. Not worth the expense, or they simply do not like it. Other warm states have plenty of population as well. I actually know more folks who are in Arizona instead of CA. Maybe AZ is a better place to live politically. It really doesn't matter if your home WAS worth a million and now is worth 650,000. It was all funny money at some point. Does that still make it a nice place? Again, this is not a rip California piece, its a 'check your ego at the door there are fifty states. it might behoove you to remember that from time to time'. If CA did secede, the other 49 states would get along just nicely. It's like when someone quits a job who thinks they are irreplaceable. And yet the company goes on nicely no matter what. If you did secede and had to pay for more Army and government and all of that, imagine how much more you'd have to hike up taxes. At some point you'd be wishing you'd have some cars to build. When so many folks want electric cars it seems ripe to me that CA should and could step up to the plate with huge incentives to fund research and development and manufacturing of electric cars....for the mass population. Not 100k fiskers and teslas. Much of the green agenda was CA driven but no backing up the talk with 'can't pass it up' incentives for the big dogs to set up plants and engineering here to make it a reality.

again its a spec sheet thing. the customer who only wants to spend 30 minutes boning up on specs before they decide which two dealerships / pihrana tanks they want to unwillingly set foot in....will quickly uncover 'Hyundai Sonata SE turbo 25,495, 274hp" and "gotta go to the GS Regal as 35k to get within 10 hp......" both you and I know the Regal turbo non GS will be pretty nice in the engine department but the numbers it puts out vs. the price. that's all I worry about. I know the Regal will feel more polished and on a higher level. um, not even sure who this individual is.

i know a handful of potheads, they continue to enjoy being hooked on it. brain is mush, i guess its their choice. rather counterproductive, addictive, expensive, and yes, it affects others in your life. generally they seem to place a greater importance on pot than moving up in the world. i've found in a couple cases with the potheads its also a threat to their job. pot is prob fine for the college years but once you get in your 30's and 40's it kind of seems ridiculous for someone to be a pothead. it's like, grow up already.

real world FE things i have read on the internet have indeed intimated that the Sonata gets better RWFE than its EPA numbers.......which is another reason i am drawn to the car.

well, sometimes if you want the revenue and jobs, a little pollution is the price. If you didn't jam your state full of residents, you'd have more open space to spread that pollution out. you can shun those jobs if you want, but at some point all the high roller jobs go offshore too.....or to other, cheaper states, with less regs and cheaper labor....and then those housing values go even lower......and so do wages and tax collections.......

the two regals i saw on the local lot the other day were comingled with LaCrosses, you had to have a keen eye to notice them as different, even from up close, while just doing a low speed driveby. the Sonata is not cartoonish, if anything what i have noticed is its side flowing curve line is accentuated in motion, and it really sets the car apart. the only aspect of the car one can question is the front grille and i have even come to like it as its more dynamic in motion than sitting still. that said, the sonata is not for everyone, while still having a lot of appeal to a wide group of people at the same time. The Regal being different from the LaCrosse and not having a sweepspear in my mind is perfect and totally ok. I just saw Edmunds first drive of the Sonata turbo. I sure hope only having 220hp on the spec sheet isn't the Regal's achilles heel......

but that's exactly what shows an even bigger hypocrisy about California as a bankrupt consumer driven state. The state can barely function, you sell all those cars and don't make any of them there. You've got a couple design studios, and the transplants have some offices, otherwise, you have a huge imbalance in terms of the auto industry. Water, cars, energy, at some point your state should consider being more self sufficient as a priority, as opposed to forcing your legislation on everyone else. At the rate CA is going, it will implode at some point and you won't have a ton of sympathy from the other 90% that you seem to discredit as not worth your time presently.

nice review, thanks. If the fiesta needs more beans to be fun, i can't imagine how a cruze could be fun with under 140hp also. fiesta is nice but i would prob spend a couple grand extra for a cruze. compared to a fit, the fiesta is a nice choice. i still don't hold much hope for dual clutch, after driving one of the DSG's awhile ago. Great concept but they gotta figure out how to get it to bang out shifts like a conventional automatic. I'd rather see carmakers develop 8 speed automatics with really tall top gears for good high speed mpg than to reinvent the wheel on dual clutch.

The gist of my comment is the other 9 of 10 Americans don't want their choices driven or legislated by your state. I am more offended by CA attempting to manhandle automotive legislation at every corner with their attitude. You have over 10% of the population, CA should build their cars there. NUMMI was the only plant i knew of in CA. If your state contributed more to the industry in terms of manufacturing as opposed to just design studios and foreign automaker offices and a couple of electric startups (which will fail) then I could see allowing more clout to drive the specs of what the rest of us 90% drive.

Getting a 2011 for the Opel / German smell alone is worth it. By the time they build it here that smell will change to the plasticky offgassing which is pleasant but not expensive smelling like the premium cars.....

starting and stopping engines probably creates more engine wear than just letting it run and idle........

if they are so green in Germany then how come the regal only gets 19mpg on 182hp?......just sayin. Sonata does 15% better mpg here and get more hp......yes the diesel gets better mpg but diesels emit more........ pretty hypocritical for the Germans to pretend to be green when most of their cars are far heavier than they should be, especially for their size. and why they have pigs like the Q7, touaregs, etc.....

one of my buddies had a remote start aftermarket on his Honda Civic with manual trans. It can be done. GM will add remote start to the Regal next year. GM's customer base demands it and they will require it be engineered into the product. THis is ONE GM and its a world product. I would assume its a requirement. Our 'One GM' will be crap if they can't figure out something as simple and necessary as a remote start in one of their new defining products. Of course, they decided NAV wasn't worth it for half their stuff recently so...... the folks in cold weather states will tell the jerks in CA to go f themselves and that they can pry their remote starters from their cold dead hands. Fine if CA wants to overlegislate that, but they will have to provide the dealer with the means to inactivate the system.

well perhaps a smaller v8 or even a v6 could get there. lots of vette drivers report easily hitting 30 on the highway with theirs now....its just the epa tests won't reflect it. i am talking real world, where you set the cruise at 75, the motor loafs at 1700 rpm or whatever, maybe its only running on 4 cylinders at that point. With only 3000 pounds to haul around plus a driver, not sure why you can't hit 30. My dad get almost 30 in his pig DTS with Northstar, at least when it maintains combustion. Most urban cars get 20 mpg in normal driving with about 4000 pounds of weight. vette is 3/4 the weight and hess less aero frontage, no reason to think it can't meet 4/3 of the 20 mpg....i.e 4/3 x 20 = 26.6666 mpg. even with the adjustment for bigger displacement and gearing issues, 23 or 24 on the epa scale with a smaller NA 380hp v8 should get that, and that's all a base vette driver really needs. That would be a nice option to have. Not every Vette driver would want or need 440hp. Do an 8 speed if you need to, other makers are doing it already. Use the tranny in the future Caddy flagship and the commodore too.

this is not a literal comparison per se, but a basic miata is what.....25k? and its a genuine hoot, i hear, and a quality piece. so IMO a basic corvette....v8, 6 speed, decent cloth seats, removable targa for 50k should not be an effing hardship. at 50k i don't expect the magnetic suspension. look at how the mustang has evolved to a damn fine car at 25 grand with a new v6 and optional perf package. the vette needs to inspire timeless appeal like all vette's and the way ford has cultivated the mustang. at the same time they sometimes need to tell the vette nerds to eff off and try to reach outside the group for some new appeal. especially youger folks, and those who are not so 'buy American'. The Vette fan base could stand to have a little diversity and not have half its group on social security. Look at the Harley Sportster. There is always a version that can be had at entry for a ridiculous price, but it still brings big value and the product is there and it brings new buyers into the fold. One nit, the Vette has supposedly had lousy seats forever. Why not just pay Recaro to make seats for the damn car and stuff em in there, I find it hard to believe it would cost GM that much to improve the seats NOW, especially when the MSRP's are padded 10-20k for the eventual end of season 15k off discount. Spend another 1000 over what is already in there and fix the effing seats.