regfootball

US govt should have let Chrysler die and kept Pontiac and even possibly Saturn too.

the mess of menus on the standard radio without cue is even difficult at times.

Fusion and Malibu are a wash for standard powertrains. For a buyer who will not choose a CVT powertrain, that eliminates the Accord and Altima. WHat's left then is the new Mazda6, which previously only was 21/30. The Camry and Sonata may be what, 6-7% better? For the uplevel powertrains, if you are spending a lot extra money, mpg is not as big a factor, because if you are spending 8 grand more over a base car, you can afford the cost of fuel difference between say the Fusion 2.0t and Malibu 2.0t. The combined of 26 and the highway of 34 is enough that that one single piece will not be the lone deciding factor to remove the Malibu from the discussion. Especially when a car like the Passat which is much slower, runs crappy, and such sells well and has even less mpg. The Japanese 3 of Nissan Honda and Toyota really sell on rep more than anything. Until chevy can crack that group, that has a lot more to do with the sales of the car than a 6% difference in FE. A lot of times FE cost can be made up in insurance cost, etc.

conspicuously absent in your comparison are the combined EPA numbers, which are actually the closest to what real world drivers get. True, the Malibu in some cases is like 2 mpg short in combined, but the major takeaway here is no one consistently gets EPA highway, so we should see comparos on the combined as well. also curiously absent on your list are the legacy and passat, both of which get worse mpg than the malibu. both sell in sizeable numbers. all of those cars with higher mpg do achieve their greater numbers primarily through less weight of structure and sound deadening removal.

base fusion's cloth is atrocious and the interior plastic in the fusion is quite cheap too.

Ford did increase the WB but they have been criticized in spots for the 13 not having as much leg room as it should or the previous fusion. I wouldn't accuse the new Fusion of great packaging either.

well, for some, the weight is a plus, if the vehicle feels more substantial on the road, or if the sheet metal is more dent resistant. If GM manages to reduce the weight of the next one, they will need to keep its upper in class road trip manners. fusion 2.5 and malibu 2.5 have identical mpg rating. fusion does offer one powerplan with better mpg but that's assuming it didn't start on fire. Base passat is not only a lot slower, is also not as good FE. the combined 26 epa is pretty close to the top competitors. For example the Sonata is a little better, but that assumes as a Hyundai it would meet its advertised mpg. New Accords and Altimas achieve eye popping mpg with CVT's but the ugly secret with CVT's is they are even more sensitive to how they are driven than regular automatics. Malibu mpg is among the best for those who like regular automatics. New Malibu's interior is smaller inside, that is the fatal flaw in that regard, depending on your tastes and the color it is in, is either better or worse for the rest. It is improved over the last gen. The new Fusion interior ain't great and the Passats look cheap in many ways also. Malibu for sure is better than a Camry inside. Malibu's leather is pretty good finally also. Malibu's center stack and mylink is among the best out there now. Altima's new interior is plasticky and creepy. The Korean twins won't win awards for interiors. Legacy, nothing to write home about. Mazda 6 probably has one of the nicest of the bunch interiors, if not the best. But the whole Mazda6 is not even a complete gimme in this class. Basically there are a lot of choices and none of the cars is the total package. If you pick one of these cars, its because you are brand loyal, or you like a few select things about one of them. Or you could just have gotten a better deal. If priced properly, once the rear seat is fixed and few other minor things are tended to, the car should do fine until they rush the next gen. The next Bu ought to have an all new platform.

um, duh.........i think that's been the plan all along. grab chrysler, let em fail, use their distribution network.

I am still very flabberghasted on the whole idea of this being an outclassed and uncompetitive car. There is a degree of correctness to the idea that the car is not say, one of the top 3 finishers in the segment. However, the deficiencies are blown way out of proportion and really most of the bad rap this car got was due to the Eco coming out first. Now GM does have a penchant for overpricing their cars, but usually they make up for it with rebates. But if they are just now figuring out that it weeds out the MSRP shoppers (who are idiots by the way) to have the MSRP too high, then I say at least they are doing something about it. Strangely enough I went a drove the 13 malibu again this weekend (added some comments to my reader review if you want to go there and read it). I drove a 3LT turbo and the 1LT 2.5 again. If the turbo were the car that came out first and if the turbo were available in the 1LT, i think the whole price and success of the car would be a lot different. Even having the 2.5 out first would have helped. I actually got some lease quotes because of my GM card top off and we are actually on a another targeted incentive right now too. Those two incentives are 3k for me...which theoretically is not available to other customers. WOOT! Problem is it also coincides intentially with rather small general public rebates on the already overpriced car. Only like a 500 dollar incentive to Mr. Joe Blow. Lease pricing with my 3k of gifts for being special don't mean anything real different than when they have more aggressive general rebates on the car at other times of year. So the root problem is GM with their MSRP's and packaging sort of screws the pooch. And that tends to muddy up whether the car is actually competitive or not. I've driven all these in their current form -12 Passat -13 Altima -13 Accord -12 Sonata -12 Legacy -14 Mazda 6 ---------it's not even fair to include a chrysler so i won't------- haven't driven the new Fusion yet, nor the Optima. But I doubt the Optima is drastically different than the Sonata. Me no drive Camrys. The Malibu's truly big flaw is the back seat and that is a completely fair and real complaint. Aside from that whatever it may be deficient in (and that's subjective on most counts against it) there is not as big a deficiency as the stupid buff books and such state. IOW, it's quite overblown. A new 13 BU turbo with the 19's and LTZ drove by my house yesterday and it was sexy. And from driving the turbo this weekend I say WOOT. That powertrain is so boss. So much sweeter than the v6 of old. Chevy will take care of a lot of the issues for 2014. Too much piling on on this car. It's not the crap they make it out to be. I do admit, it really would be tough to not lean oh so tiny much to a Verano at similar money.

it was buggin me for like a whole day then i realized it was Jag XF I was seeing bits of in this car. The greenhouse a bit, but mostly that fender vent thing and character line at the base of the door to the rear wheels....there is some Hyundai Genesis in here also....

some keep waiting for 'perfection' that never comes...........

peeked in the window of a loaded encore yesterday at the buick dealer. Looks like a posh little ride. Did not get inside or drive though. Blu, just smooth and quiet? Nothing else?

it will be just fine at the chevy store......

DRIVEN 2013 Cadillac ATS RWD 2.5L, Black with Carmel vinyl interior, MSRP about 33,800 HIGHS ATS is sweet looking inside and out! 2.5 has decent power, revs freely Good passing power and better than expected off the line power. Neutral handling with RWD chassis Good ride and handling balance appropriate for a base car Front row seating has nice space for legroom and width / girth Good forward visibility Attractive interior on the base model, even with the decontented headliner and vinyl seats and such Very nicely contoured seats for the base model Nice gauge cluster You can tell, the car feels very balanced, also stable and secure. Quite quiet inside and comfortable. Very hushed at speed. Doesn't feel decontented. Doesn't feel like a throwaway car. Color displays on the base car. More interesting than a CTS. Sport mode on the Trans. Decent radio sound Feels heavy and substantial but not at all porky LOWS Tranny and ECU is obviously tuned for FE. Sport mode does improve responsiveness a bit. Tranny waits to kick down. 8 speed + aggressive ECU would be better. Exhaust sound while appropriate for a base car could stand to be tuned for more throatiness etc for some excitement. Tried hard to get the driver seat adjustment where I wanted and couldn't figure it out. Maybe needed a lot more time to dick with it. This car did not have CUE but still I was frustrated with the interface and the shiny bars and having to go through menus and clicks and $h! just to do what positive feel buttons or knobs would do. This car has blind spots. To be expected for sure, but just be careful.... Steering wheel control are sort of out of thumbs' path and organized not like how I would naturally think it should be. Trunk is SMALL. Backseat, is there one? Assuming that passengers are very occassional with this car, it's still going to be a challenge to think of very many humans consenting to be in the back of this car by choice very often. I just about threw my back out trying to sit behind myself (the space test) getting in and out.... 2.5L is limited to the RWD model only Why not at least heated seats as an option? Vinyl, even good vinyl can be cold.... SUMMARY This is the loss leader version of the vaunted ATS. Cadillac does and does not want to sell this version of the car. It is the car that would snag a few buyers who have lesser means, are cheapskates, want RWD on the cheap, or.......who are new to the brand. this last item is why thy try to make it good, so those new to the brand can become repeat buyers next time around. This car IMO gives enough in the experience that someone wanting to get in on a lux make but at the low end, would feel contented. You know you are missing the promise (2.0t or 3.6), but still receiving a nice driving experience and the solidity and owner benefits of the luxury marque. Most daily driver types are actually going to think the 2.5 is peppy and pretty smooth. There is even just enough spunk trying to break out that an enthusiast used to speedier iron would not get too bent out of shape driving this car if their budget was clipped. It does lack 'sportiness' but it shoots more for all around solidity and quality feel and as a result, the steering and ride and all just tuned for good balance between all the senses. In that regard I think its successful. I would be interested to see if Cadillac could or would considering creating a high value sport package for the 2.5....it would not take much. What I would do....consider making the ride and handling more edgy and give the exhaust tuning some bite. Jazz up the interior some and add heated seats. Gear the tranny aggressively and add paddle shifters. I don't think it would keep people from the turbo. In the end, I just think this is a good car. The 2.5 does not overwhelm because that is a tough job for a NA 2.5 four cylinder in a car like this. But despite how buff mags like Car and Driver tend to rate the 2.5, I tend to gravitate to the fair end of the spectrum and realize it for what it is.....a good opportunity for entry into a lux brand and the money expended = experience received. Of course you would enjoy the turbo more but that does not make this bad. Four main concerns I am left with is the slow transmission and ECU response in normal mode (an 8 speed aggressively tuned would fix that), tough to get the power driver seat dialed in, overall frustration and complexity with trying to use radio and climate control functions, and super tight confines in the back seat and trunk. The car has all the makings of a solid A, but in the entry level version I think you just cannot give an A. For what it is though I would actually teeter between the high B+ and A-. Even with the 2.5 you say, nice car! No shame in driving a base Caddy.

DROVE A 3LT TURBO TODAY..... DO NOT DRIVE THIS MODEL IF YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE THE DOUGH......... OMG the Turbo makes a world of difference in this car. If you hadn't driven the turbo and just drove the 2.5 only, you would say, "that 2.5 is a good car".</p> Even salesdude said it, you're not gonna want the non-turbo after you drive the turbo. I have driven all these GM cars with the 2.0 turbo in them now.. HHR SS Cobalt SS Saab 9-5 Buick Regal Every time I drive a car with some variation of the GM 2.0 I am impressed. In the Malibu is adds the power and refinement that you don't notice until you have compared it side by side. That same thing happened with me and the regal. What sucks is that you need to be in a 3LT to have the turbo option. Why can't GM do a 1LT special turbo? A cheap sport package, like an RS? I really like the 2.0 turbo, dare I say more than the v6.......... Drove the 2.5 again today and now re-reading my initial review, I would say mostly it sticks but I will say the powertrain did seem louder than the before.....I had thought the Malibu had an interior noise advantage over its competition but now maybe not as much. There is something slightly underwhelming about the basic car, its really hard to pinpoint. Maybe again it was because the turbo was so well suited to the car.

not super jazzed on the exterior at first, but looking a bit more it is some nice changes. did a lot with what i am sure was not a lot of $$$$ to work with. Not a knockout, but definitely nice. Interior is actually what i am more impressed with. You can clearly see how they tried to evolve the theme inside to have some things in common with the current chevy's.... the door panels, the center stack. seats look nice. I am sure the new dashtop and gauges are just plunked down on top of the old lower dash which is why it looks sort of disjointed but it's all good. To be honest this is better than i expected. kudos..... now let's see the SS....all the old G8 fans should be happy as pigs in slop. Window switches on the door where they are intended to be. Fairly obvious how those rear taillights will be twin taillights on the SS like the Malibu....

good mpg on that audi diesel but if you are buying or leasing that expensive a car, you are not really getting diesel for the money you'd supposedly save on fuel. there is likely a good niche market for luxury diesels for those who just dig diesels.

not overly snazzy looking really, not bad, but lacks some presence even the Rio hatch has. There's a little too much toyota and hyundai left in this. Is it the Cee'd that is a little snazzier? This Spectra is just sort of forgettable. Interior is big step backwards from the neat panel layout in the Rio. Looks cheap inside too.

Passat TDI manual with cornsilk vinyl and manual trans, prob better real world mpg, and only a scant 1200-1500 more.

Have you driven it yet? No desire to. I don't much care for impractical (for me) cars. I'd even dig a Genesis coupe over this.

Look at how well the loaded Eco Malibus sold.

why not a cloth MT Eco lightened Cruze, 23k with the new beak and interior bits?

more trim levels than customers

since toyota has almost no turbos does this surprise you

standard leather....wtf.......