CreativeVision

DodgeFan: I think you got it right about the Impala being a good buy. I totally agree with this...but is not in the same class as the Avalon. I think this is what I was struggling with earlier in this thread. For the life of me I can't understand how people can put the Impala and Avalon in the same comparo. The Avalon is Toyota's flagship car, and yet the Impala is just a basic family commuter in the mid-size class(?), more in line to compete against the Camry/Accord. No wonder you can come up with a $8,000 price difference. Throw in the Lucerne and now I get how it competes with the Avalon. Price point, interior refinement and general customer base all make for a better (and fair) comparison. As I said before, the Lucerne would only need a 5- or 6-speed, and a stronger (240?) HP V6 to draw me back to the US.

Its nothing special if you ask me. Don't really pay much attention to trucks, but aside from the chrome details you pointed out, just looks like more hard plastic crap. Same for the knobs on the seats. If this is better than the last gen, yikes hate to have that vehicle.

I mean, all things being equal, wouldn't you rather save your neighbors job than send $40,000 to Tokyo? That depends...what if my neighbor works at a US Toyota assembly plant, a US based regional office, or at a Toyota dealership in the US. Wouldn't I equally want to help save his/her job by buying a Toyota then? I know what your trying to say, buy a japanese car and the money goes to Japan. But I had another post(can't remember if it were on this website or Autoweek.com), that posed this very question. Sure most of the profits are helping a Japan based company, but as much as their origins reside in Japan, they also employ tens of thousands(?) here in the US. As much as people don't like it, Japanese(and European, Korean, and soon Chinese) mfgs are here and they are here to stay. They do play a very important role to the US economy. Besides your in Canada...do you buy all your products in the US to help our economy and save jobs here? Maybe some, but I'm sure not everything.

Dodgefan: Thanks for the apology. It wasn't necessary but I appreciate the extension. I am definitely not one for "jumping on the bandwagon" so to speak, and I'm glad you recognize I don't want the Avalon due to it being a Toyota. If it were another make, I would like it just the same.

And as embarrassing as you think you would be driving an Avalon(or other "japtrap" as you call it), imagine how embarrassing you are to this forum due to your lack of an open mind. I understand this is a GM fansite first and foremost, but there are other mfg forums for a reason. If you can't stand being seen in the car, why spend so much time inside this forum? Your a closet import lover aren't you? I think I am making the RIGHT choice by avoiding any car that would be associated with people like you who are so one-track minded and ensure the world will always have discriminations.

268HP is the new SAE standard. 280 is what it used to be claimed as by Toyota prior to the new regulations. You are entitled to your opinion just the same as I am to mine. My last post should have cleared this up, I just see things differently on the interior standpoint. I'm not here to argue which is better, that could go on forever as neither of us would want to concede that the other is correct. My last post also addressed your comment about driving the cars. I haven't yet test drove any car, as I am not in the market yet. But first impressions from seeing the car in person and sitting in them at the Auto show go a long way to me. I agreed with the poster who stated the test drive is the ultimate tell-tale on basing a purchase decision. I plan to test drive a multitude of vehicles before I buy. Could I end up buying a Lucerne or LTZ...sure! BTW: do you really want to have the same car as all the taxis? Isn't this almost worse than a rental car in terms of what it does to a car's resale value. This thread has really gotten way off the original topic. My original intent was to ask a simple question as to upcoming changes to the Avalon. Now I find myself defending my taste in vehicles because posters couldn't stay on topic.

Actually I don't subscribe nor do I read any publications other than Autoweek and this forum. The new Impala was an option for me, as was the Lucerne and LaCrosse. I really do want to stick with GM to keep the money in the US, but honestly I sat in all these vehicles at the '06 Chicago Autoshow and personally the Avalon beat them all. Now I do agree with another poster, that the test drive will be the ultimate decision maker, but since I have some time until I buy, I'm not going to waste the time of a salesman and get harassed for a sale that isn't going to happen. When I'm ready I will certainly test drive all options, and by then many things will change. For instance, if the Impala had a nicer interior(c'mon you have to admit it is cheap looking and feeling...many here would agree); or the Lucerne/LaCrosse offered at least a 5-speed and a little more horsepower in the base V6 I might be swayed that way. But as it stands today, I just think the Avalon satisfies me more in the areas I feel are important to me. In fact even before I knew of this site and before Toyota was thought as the juggernaut of the auto world, I loved the Avalon. Only at that time I was trying to convince my father to buy it. Now I'm a father and my affection for the Avalon has grown more. I guess we'll just need to agree to disagree for today's offerings. As I said, I don't think the interior in the Impala is anything special. The ride I can't comment on for either. If by performance you mean the 303 HP that FWD architecture can't control, then sure it has the leg up on the 268 of the Avalon. I'm not looking to drag race the car, just have some passing power and be an upgrade to the 215HP my current car has. Interesting that you say "will" have problems and not currently do. Nice assumption, but given the reputation Toyota(and many import brands) have built for quality, I can't see this changing any time soon. Not to say GM has quality problems, my family has owned many over the years and they all were fine vehicles. Look...the bottom line here is I may have been bold in my testament of "love" for the Avalon, but I am at least open to all vehicles(not blinded by Toyota glitz as you suggest). I sat in many a vehicles at the Autoshow and do read these forums for options. Saab, Subaru, Pontiac, Saturn, Chevy, Buick...all have something that has been an option. And when I am ready to buy all of them will have something to offer in the way of a 4-dr family car and I'll reassess the marketplace at that time.

Actually I called you and a few others children because of the childish responses that were completely unrelated to the actual question. For instance here is your original post to this thread..."you love it? why? I can see liking it fo it's good quality...but loving it? it's not pretty and it's not sprty at all." So this is how I see it. I asked in the appropriate forum of any upcomnig changes and your immediate response was questioning why I even 'love' it. Okay maybe a strong word to use, but definitely did not deserve an equally bold stance of questioning my opinion. Did you get the impression that I even wanted a sporty car from my original question? Maybe good quality is near and dear to me and I have to right to find the vehicle attractive, interior doors and smaller truck alike. It's got what I am interested in and I'm entitled to my opinion. Can you imagine what this world would be like if we all had the same car??? Wouldn't do much for this website that's for sure...

Okay, Now that I have replied to all the children of the group...I'd like to thank all those that have contributed to this thread in a meaningful way and actually addressed the original topic question. I agree a Hybrid and the 6-speed make sense as something to come in the future. I hadn't thought of that prior to your responses. I appreciate the time you took to respond.

Like any Buick is different? The Lucerne is the only one coming close, but average age of the Lucerne owner is still typical Buick, which is the same as the Avalon. Once people stop stereotyping and get some ideas of their own, these cars will lose that stigma.

I actually like the doors, and can picture them paint-matched to the exterior color to pull it together better. And I've never been a fan of wood, so maybe I would do something to that too, but I actually loved the look of the lighter shade the Avalon has, IMO far better than the darker wood typically found in interiors. And yeah I actually do need the room. I'm 5'11" and have a small child in the rear seat, unfortunately the car I have now does not offer enough front or rear room to be comfortable. This is one of the few that worked in both areas, and the only one I can recall with the flat floor in the rear. Just wished it had full folding rear seat rather than a pass-thru.

Dick...ehem...I mean 'testicles', I do believe I posted this in "The Other Guys"(subforum Asian Marques), correct? Is that not an open invitation to post such questions? I am on this website as I find it one of the BEST sites on the net for not only GM specifics, but other industry happenings. "MOSTLY" great people, very fast responses, active forums, current data. It's a shame folks like you have to go ruin the experience. I won't hold it against the other helpful people on C&G, with such a large database of users, there's bound to be at least a few bad apples. Grow up!

That might tempt most Avalon customers, but this 28 year old won't be able to take much advantage of this spectacular deal. Shucks...

Yep, I do love it. IMO, great styling interior room, Toyota quality, and features for the money. I disagree that this car is not sporty. It may appear that way to most as this is typically holds the mindset as the equivalent of a Buick for Toyota. But if you are a customizer with any creative ability(like me) you can make the car a real attention getter without being Ricey and making it lose its class. Guess I have more vision than you in this regard and can see some great potential to take an unassuming and not-so-typical car and do something wonderful with it. Besides my original question had nothing to do with asking your opinion of the Avalon.

Love the current Avalon, but can't buy until late 2007. Anyone know of any potential refreshes or complete model changes by the 2008 MY? What is the life cycle these days...4.5 years? So maybe 2009/2010 MY would be the new one.

I do agree it blows the Camry away in styling...but I don't quite get it yet. Some photos make it look really good, but others it looks like GM did a refresh for the current Sebring and used a Honda Civic chrome grill bar. I've said this in a previous post, but I have to say it again....Why do we have to keep looking at it in this Grey color? Its the same Sh*t we've seen since the concept first debuted. C'mon give me some real colors to make this car POP. It just looks so boring and bland. I've seen only 2 shots now of a Red one, but they were of the front end and interior. Where are the other pictures of the side profile and 3/4 views in this color. Same goes for the Outlook. Need to see some real colors...Ugh!

Just noticed one more thing on the interior shots...where are the turn signal indicators on the instrument panels? Its kinda plain around the guage housings, perhaps they are LED as well and light up from within the 2 outboard guages?

Wheels are an easy but relatively expensive fix from the aftermarket. I'd like to see the 17" actually. According to the article, the ones in the picture are the 14 spoke 18's, however they don't look polished to me. These do scream Chrysler Sebring. Nice to see the Baseball glove interior made it thru to production, very distinctive and sets Saturn apart from all other vehicles. However I wonder how long until I grow tired of seeing it each day. Agreed that the wood must go and the brown with the gray is a little off. Again distinctive, but grow old fast...? The most impressive things are those that GM should have had for years. V6 with healthy horsepower, a 6-speed tranny, stabiliTrak on a Saturn, front and rear disc brakes, heated seats with cloth(budget conscious), all the standard airbags, Power up AND down windows. My only qualms are the 4 panel roof and no mention of tilt AND telescoping steering wheel. I'd prefer a conventional tilt/sliding moonroof. Hopefully the interior room can rival those of a larger car as I would expect since the G6 seemed bountiful in rear leg room for me. I also see the new Impala in the greenhouse from certain angles. Overall definitely worth the test drive and look when shopping for a new car in about a year. One last thought, couldn't GM have unveiled this in a different color? For over a year we've only seen this car in that grey...Let's get a fresh look to it!! I was really hoping to see that Green as an option that was on a Sky here sometime back. Maybe when I am ready to buy the Red line version will be out. I still can't believe this car is finally in production(well this summer at least). What a long wait.

So GM is building a brand new "crossover" larger than their standard wheel base SUV to fill a VERY SMALL niche where the Envoy XL currently is? Is the XL selling poorly enough that they felt it needed replacing? And furthermore, if you are to drop it, why not leave that void, so you can force people up to the Yukon? Maybe even bring the price point of the Yukon lower yet so it remains semi-affordable and doesn't leave too much price gap between it and the Envoy Denali. So then is the Enclave replacing the Rainer, or becoming an upper model in Buicks lineup? And why doesn't Chevy get another badge-engineered vehicle to complement thier lineup of trailblazers and Tahoe? I guess until these new vehicles come out, I really don't see the sense from a financial standpoint for them to co-exist with all the current offerings(except Envoy XL) To me only the Saturn Outlook works as Saturn doesn't currently have a large vehicle such as this.

So I'm confused. How big exactly is this Acadia? I mean I guess I kinda know as I saw the Enclave at the Chicago Auto show, but they are calling it a crossover??? Seems to be big enough and have the amenities to just be another SUV. Besides that, is this going to be replacing/phasing out the Envoy or selling alongside it? If it is replacing the Envoy(and Rainer with the Enclave), then what is Chevy going to do about the trailblazer? We've only heard of the 3 vehicles(GMC, Saturn, Buick). My wife has a 2003 Envoy now and she loves it, just wondering what her next SUV/Crossover will be now as she will only buy GM. Someone please clarify this for me.

What a disappointment when I saw almost the exact same Aura that was there last year. Only changes being those that members of this site have noted in previous posts elsewhere. Lucerne was also somewhat of a let down in person. No folding rear seats and low output HP V6??? Make the V6 at least 240, then keep the 275 Northstar V8. Just too big of a jump currently in my opinion. Needs a 5 speed auto too. I was pleasantly surprised with the Malibu Maxx SS. Better interior quality than the Impala...for less money! You really get alot of car inthe Maxx SS for the coin. Seems like a deal to me. Subaru Outback was also a stong contender for my wallet. Wagon utility with car-like ride. AWD to boot, this will be a strong competitor, if the price can get worked out. But alas I have my eye squarely on the Avalon. What a car! Great looking, semi luxury/semi sporty. Perfect. And the custom police car and Troy Trepanier's versions...WOW! I want me an Avalon! Can't wait to go out and test drive a few of my finalists and see if my opinions change one way or the other.

Definitely looks to be the truth. As I was the one who started this thread, I figured it would be appropriate to end it as well. After reading this last reply, I revisited the Chicago Auto Show website and found the Aura is now listed as a "concept" and no longer as a debut. Guess we all have to wait until April now. From my limited time on this site, it appears once again that GM likes to take their sweet time getting things to market. New Camaro...2012 maybe????

Guess we'll see in a few weeks then. Based on the report that shows Aura named best production car, I'm assuming that information was released a bit early. Here's my theory...It was supposed to debut in Detroit, but due to all the hype of the Camaro concept, GM didn't want to have this left in the shadows. So instead they made a late decision to debut it in Chicago instead. And if Lutz is saying the sheetmetal is 100% ready, why wouldn't a production car show up at the Chicago show...enough with the concept, if Jill says it will be available later in 2006 following the Sky introduction(see thread in Saturn forum), where else are they gonna debut it?

Hi all, Just checked out the website for the Chicago Auto Show coming in Feb. and it looks like the Aura is set to debut there! Previous visits to this site, did not list this info, rather it only offered the Vue Green Line. So maybe someone "in the know" can verify this??? I secretly hoped to sit it there this year in full production form, as I loved the concept and if I recall correct it was to be a 2007 model? Or was it '08? Either way, we need confirmation from the insiders here...hopefully this wasn't posted already, I haven't seen it if it has. Jason

That's true, but then why would I pay more for a CTS with little amenities, when I can have so much more for less money? That's seems to be the conundrum I am having right now. As for the original question for this topic...is there any new Grand Prix/G8 in the works? If so when are we thinking it will be arriving in showrooms?