saturnd00d

I've just purchased an 08 Saturn Vue XE, and while I wholeheartedly agree that us Canadians pay too much, but I'd rather keep my warranty intact, and not have to deal with paying taxes on a new vehicle crossing the border, etc. Too much time and hassle. Oh, and I don't have "real cash" (like some of you may) to throw around. I am simply a family man, with the typical mortgage and other expenses. I waited to get my 0% for 5 years and am pretty happy with that. Sure I paid alot more here than in the U.S. but that's the price you pay for wanting to live here rather than there. Hopefully during the time of my next purchase, prices are lowered to within 10% of the U.S. MSRP, however we Canadians have to realize that we are a smaller market than probably 1/5 of the U.S. and as such, for automakers to be profitable, they have to jack up prices here to adjust for the lack of sales North of the border. In my opinion, those that have "real money" to throw around, go ahead, buy your CTS or Yukon Denali south of the border to save some cash, but you'll most likely pay some or even more than the difference back when you can't get anything honored under warranty and have to cover repairs out of your pocket, and/or when you have to pay taxes on the vehicle to register it. I don't have the time, money or patience for those games. To me, my time is better spent with my wife and newborn son. Good luck to the rest of the Canucks on this board in your car purchases. I am good for another 6-7 years out of this one.

Two divisions that could get the axe tomorrow are Hummer and Saab. What purpose does Saab even have these days? If people want luxury, they goto Cadillac. Hummer is too much of a gas pig and is getting that reputation of being played out. Let's face it, the market has way too many other offerings to have a division based on off-roading monster vehicles like Hummer, so why not axe that? I am now on my 3rd saturn myself. I bought an 08 Vue XE 2.4L and although the fuel economy isn't the best in it's segment, the vehicle is a solid contender. I just couldn't pick anything else over it because it had the most going for it. I'm getting alot of stares by people on the road, and positive comments from family, friends, and co-workers by how well-built this thing looks, and how expensive it looks. This is with the base XE with black plastic bumper trim and all. The XR's look even flashier with body-colored bumpers and dual exhaust, larger wheels, etc. Honestly, if more people were aware of the Vue, I think it would sell very well. People usually default to Honda or Toyota because they know that those are relatively solid vehicles, however if Saturn poured some more ad dollars into their new products, they would do well. Look at how the Aura is only starting to get popular NOW compared to how fast the Malibu gained popularity. I'm sorry, but the Malibu rear-end is hideous and it's not as great as people make it out to be. The Aura has a classier look, and personally, I think it's a better-executed car overall. Again, too bad people don't know about it. Pontiac, well it's great and all, but these days people are looking for fuel conscious vehicles, not performance vehicles. We'll see how the future of Pontiac looks like in 2-3 years when gas prices soar.

This is true, but I feel secure enough to drive what makes me happy, and if this car makes me feel happy driving it, then I will. F#$k everyone else and what they think of me. If people are going to judge me because of a car I drive that looks less refined, then they aren't worth the time. Hell, I could just drive a Mazda 3, or Toyota corolla, or even Honda civic if I want something more refined looking, but I have driven those cars, and the only one I felt good driving was the 3. I didn't choose it simply because it would have cost me $90 a month more to drive a 3 equipped like my ION is. Both cars were a joy to drive. The others, not so much. I felt like falling asleep behind the wheel they were that boring.

Time to move on from the 80's? Um, I'm only 26. I didn't start driving till '96 BTW. Before then I had no clue about cars other than what I though was 'cool' back then. Anyways, most Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas and pretty much anything Korean made up until the past few years is bound to rust within 4-6 years of original purchase. GM was always one of the few manufacturers that actually cared about the steel they used, whereas most other manufacturers didn't. I would still always prefer polymer panels to steel. I've owned 4 cars in total with my last two being Saturns. No comparison in terms of exterior maintenance. They still scuff and scratch, but with some Scratch-X, most of the stuff buffs out no problems. See, people who've never owned Saturns never saw the great things that made earlier Saturns true to the name. You always got top notch service no matter which dealership you went to, they offered you more on your trade-ins to 'help you out', the cars were always easy to work on (simple engine layouts), and aside from a few minor issues like oil burning, etc. (not unique to Saturns by the way) they were essentially trouble-free. The only major issue I can think of was the differential pin loosening if you did consistent burnouts or whatever. In a time where we now place everything on image and value (intertwined), earlier Saturn cues can no longer survive. I can understand that, I mean GM is in this to make money like everyone else, but I can truly say that I appreciate the Saturn experience and will always be true to the division. I may not be able to purchase future products from them since they are now going premium, but my heart stays with them. Then you obviously haven't driven an ION for more than 30 mins because thats about as long as it takes most people to adjust. Did you know that you take your eyes off the road more when you check your rear-view mirrors than you do looking at those center gauges? Obviously you don't realize that because your "adjusted" to looking at your rear-view mirror since its more an issue of safety and something you have to do. Well, same thing for the gauges, it ends up being second nature. Heh, I don't even have to move my head when looking since the gauges are close to the right side of my eyes. They really aren't that far away. Stop pretending like they are. If you can believe, I've even heard of people saying that they don't want to SHIFT THEIR BODY to the right to see the gauges which is why they don't consider the car. Talk about over-exxageration. Why is it that no one complains about the BMW mini when it comes to gauges? The speedo in them truly is out of the way, not the one in the ION. It's an underappreciated feature that actually goes a long way. If only people could experience the joy in having them like I do. That's their problem, not mine.

Amazing car, wishing you many many happy miles with it too.

In many ways, the ION is like an Aztec, although not everyone on God's green earth thinks of it as ugly, like they do the aztec. As for the gauges, I'm sorry, but they are a great feature. I would choose them over conventional gauges any day of the week. Maybe its because when you actually get to drive the car more than 5 mins (AKA test drive) you appreciate them that much more. I can't tell you how great it is not to have to move my hand(s) every 2 mins to look at my gauges properly. Also, on the net, I hear countless times of people bashing the center IP. You know what? I go by real-world opinions, and truth is, I've had alot of compliments as well. It only makes me feel better about my purchase, but it was never a deciding factor for me. The ION is truly a great car. Mechanically, its a great car, exactly the same as a cobalt underneath. I don't know how one feels different than the other since they share all the same parts except for the different strut assemblies up front, and different torsion-beam revisions in rear. Materials look and feel better in the cobalt, but you also pay more for a cobalt than you do an ION. Alone, I think the polymer on the ION far outweighs any advantage that the cobalt has over it. Just makes me smile to know my car will still look new in 6-7 years compared to the average cobalt that will start corroding by that time (or even sooner). Yep, reality is a bitch.

I know time and time again people have heard me defending the ION, but to be honest, it's a great car. The interior isn't for everyone, but it's still a solid car. I have a second-year ION. I know and accept that the newer ones are better. They are more refined and have had minor tweaks since the 04 model, but mine has not given me any major troubles. Of the few things that have gone wrong, all were serviced by the dealership in no-time and without questions. Also, I love my sedan. It's original. I can't say the same for the cobalt. The cobalt sedan looks retarded from the rear-end or even rear 3/4 view. I would much rather have my sedan. I've never regretted my decision, and in fact, am that much happier that I bought it now, than ever before. I have done a few uprades to my ION sedan, and it looks even better now. Then again, I've always loved Saturn's ability to be different. They've always had creativity, and innovative ideas in their designs. No one can ever take that away from them. Up until next year of course. Purdue and Haypops, I've learned to accept the ION bashing. It's mainstream and almost cool to do it in the public eye. Close-minded individuals can be my guest and pay a premium on a "better image" of a car if they want, but as long as they accept that they are missing out on a possibly great car, they can say or do whatever they feel like. Here's one of my latest pics of the car (taken from last year). It's been updated since then with vent visors and an exhaust in terms of appearance, but same rims and same ride height.

Aw man, I'm really sorry to hear about your car. Sucks that sh!t like this has to happen. I've been in that situation twice before, so I know. Good luck with everything dude.

It's funny, I actually have the sedan version in my driveway as we speak. It's a rental that was given to my dad, while his 98 Chevy truck is getting repaired after being hit in the rear fender. I drove it for a bit, and to be honest, its a decent car. As much as I'm no hyundai fanboy, I can honestly say that it would make an excellent in-town car. It's very quiet, steering response is great, braking adequate, and is quite comfy for a small car. My only gripe is that it has absolutely no power at all. Keep in mind that the rental has an auto, but still. If your looking to merge on the highway regularly, this is not the car for you. I can see it getting crappy mileage in highway driving scenarios.

I didn't go out and buy a second ION after my first one, but this is surprising yet satisfying news.

The top left momo shift knob is the one I have in my ION. Great shift knob in my opinion. So comfortable.

Wow the backend is straight from the last generation L-series, and I mean straight from it. Let's compare...

I should be good to go, gotta find a free day where I don't work though.

Maybe I missed something where it stated what this is, but anyways... To me, it looks like the rear of a sports car of sorts (hopefully concept Camaro but that's only a hopeful guess). It looks as though the taillights are rectangular (if those are taillights). Am I completely in the dark on this one?

Buikman, I'm sure you can understand that I'm no GM insider, I'm not even in the automotive field whatsoever, and their business practices are way over my head. With that said, I see things from not a business perspective, but rather, a consumer perspective. When I see a flashy car ad, or one that makes me sing the praises of a certain auto manufacturer, it does get me thinking "hey I'll keep this car in my thoughts when I'm in the market for one". As soon as one of the mags or tv reviews focus on that car, I tend to gander at the review out of curiosity. I feel I share this trait with many consumers today. Where I differ from that of a majority of consumers, is the curiosity to take the car out for a drive personally to see if "I" like it. Alot of people tend to look into reviews and publications to see the opinions of auto journalists. Many consumers trust these journalists because they don't know what exactly to look for, so therefore they think of these journalists as "experts". When the "experts" label a car as something like "still not first in class", or "not as good fuel economy as Toyota X or Honda Y", "not as refined as VW something-or-other", etc., people sometimes draw their conclusions from that. Some may not even make it to the dealership at that point thinking it would be a waste of time. Something that can only make sense in the short term, is to have GM focus 135% on quality and surpassing the standards. Why make something equal to something else? Now you have a 50-50% chance of selling the car, based on if the consumer likes yours rather than the other. Make a product that no one can pass up. It's hard to stand out these days, but try to find distinction, try to show your product through...your product, as opposed to advertising designed to exploit the product's good qualities and hide the bad ones. Again, you simply cannot polish a turd. Harsh? Yes. True? Yes.

GM's refinement and quality are definitely better than before, but not good enough. Lacrosse? Not good enough. CTS? Hardly. Cobalt? Nope. These cars while different in their respective markets and target audiences, were supposed to be all the rage in the comeback for GM. Each of them fall short in terms of refinement. Don't get me wrong, I like each of them, but compared to their rivals, we all know GM could have done better. CTS for example, is a fine automobile (one that I can't afford either), but for the price of it, I'd expect a better and more refined interior. Hell, it's a cadillac, it shouldn't fall short on anything. At least, thats what cadillac's image portrays. I think GM is heading in the right direction with finally taking the plunge and working on their refinement and quality. Thing is, they need to step up and address these issues FASTER. They shouldn't reserve the next 10 years to debut their refined offerings a few at a time, instead, each of their products should be getting the step-ups in quality, even if its to add some refined small touches to hold out the consumers til the refreshes come in. Fine example that I'm sure everyone can agree with. The ION. Ok, GM isn't going to replace the ION til 07 or so. Fine, the plan is to keep it plastic til then. UNTIL THEN, why not offer a refreshed interior consisting of a new dash, some revised door skins (possibly ala cobalt and pursuit), and some sort of special edition options not normally found in the previous IONs? This would at least get some extra sales out of the model until an all-new car comes out. They've made ALOT of engineering differences in the later model IONs (and trust me it was for the better), but the biggest problem area I think everyone has with the car, is the interior. Address that in small ways to hold off the press and hold onto the masses looking into buying a small car.

Marketing may be an issue over at GM, but the biggest concern for GM should be it's product refinement and quality. Referring to improving GM's marketing, you just can't polish a turd. The only way to change a company's image is to simply make better and more refined products. Products that people want. Products that actually are as comparable as others in their respective classes. I am one of the small percentile of customers that likes to buy what I like (heck, I bought an ION which I know many people don't like, but I do for my own reasons). Truth is, these days, you can do all you want to "persuade" consumers why your products are better, but once certain media publish their cut-throat reviews, all image that you worked so hard to obtain is now lost because the product isn't what it appears to be. GM, go back to what makes a good product. You have the technology, you have the experience, you have the money. Use it. Better to go out with all guns a'blazin rather than play it safe and fade out in less than a decade only to have the world laughing at you. Invest in quality, and invest in your concept-to-production turnaround time (basically cut it shorter) and get some damn good vehicles out now. You definitely need it.