saturnd00d

With my Vue, I get around 23-24 MPG with roughly 80% highway driving. When I babied it earlier on, I reached an all-time high of 29MPG exceeding the mileage ratings. It can be done, but to be honest, you'd be accelerating to speed on such a slow basis, you'd get fed-up after awhile. I sure did. Just driving it normally though, I frequently get 23-24 MPG. As many have stated on saturnfans.com, both the 4-banger and both V6's in the vue all loosen up after the engines break-in. Mileage improves a decent amount after 6-8K on the odo. Whichever vehicle you pick, best of luck. Post pics.

Very nice fleet you got there...and I'm loving this Monaro conversion. Would be intrigued to see more as time goes on. Keep us up to date.

I have an 08 Vue XE (4 cyl.) and while it's no speed demon, then fuel economy does improve a bit when the engine's broken in (roughly 6K-8K miles). I was in love with the Vue XR with the 3.6 but I couldn't afford to get that and pay the extra gas and insurance for it too. It was more than I "needed" so I didn't opt for it. I have to tell you, I love my Vue XE and although it's not as fun as some of the cars I "wanted" in the first place, it is, I find, to be one of the best Small utes out there right now. It's the best of everything out of all the other utes. The only other one I gave real serious thought to was the Nissan Rogue. It was a distant 2nd though. As far as mancrushes go, I also have one on the Astra XR. When we are in the market for a 2nd vehicle in 3-4 years or so, I'm going to look for a Salsa Red 3 Door XR, with 5 speed and hopefully handling package too. Wouldn't mind having the 5 door, but the 3 door is sexier. If I go with the 3-door, I'll get an aftermarket webasto roof installed. That will round it out nicely. Glad to hear you liked the Vue, reg.

Maybe it's a costly option they can exclude with the telephone company?

Agreed

Nice pics, and nice vehicles. I am looking to get those chrome rims for my Vue as well.

Hey everyone...I think I found some renderings based on the next-gen Astra in Europe which will come here in 2010. Take a look. Found here: http://www.astraforum.ro/forums/p/7869/40627.aspx

My son is turning 1 on November 6th. Congrats 6T-8 on your soon-to-be arrival. I was considering that name for a girl if that's what we were going to have at the time. That is so true. My son has the hugest smile on his face when I come home from work. This past summer, he's been loving the walks we take together, the time I spend playing with him, throwing him in the air, etc. I also find it cute when he comes to wake me up in the morning so that I can play with him. Can't wait till he's older and I can teach him the things I've learned, but at the same time, I hope that time slows down because I'm certainly going to miss when he's this small. It's been the best time of my life.

Looks great now, but GM's mistake is to release images of this car way too early. Gives the competition a heads up so that they have a chance to (yet again) one-up GM. Couldn't they have waited up until possibly a year or less to release images? To me, it's almost as if GM wants this kind of press this early, so in the meantime, people keep their faith alive in GM. Almost like, hey, look what we're releasing in 2 years. If you let us go under, these cars (Cruze and Volt) will never see production.

I'm not so sure on that, Opel offers (which Saturn should offer) small cars in addition to midsized cars and CUV's, whereas Buick can focus on midsized and larger cars, with base V6 engines or more powerful V8 engines as options (with addition of Enclave), and have whisper-quiet rides, esentially being the average man's caddy. So now that most of us are on the same page, the only thing I'm not so clear on, is to have Saturn renamed in N/A as Opel. Essentially, the initial Saturn brand, with its original mission is far from what it is now, we all know that. However, I feel that renaming it Opel would cost GM more money to do, that it doesn't have or can't spare. Think of the new advertising it would have to do to make the public aware of the "new" Opel and focus TV spots on it's european heritage and it's leaps and bounds in quality improvement, compared to its past (for those that were around to see Opel in it's N/A glory days). I think GM is better off leaving the Saturn brand intact just for the sake of having SOME brand recognition to draw people in the doors. At this point, many car enthusiasts already know or understand that Saturn is essentially Opel with some minor changes, but for those that don't follow automotive news and still doesn't know, the Saturn name that they've come to know for the past 17 years will resonate a bit more, than the Opel name they really don't remember or that might have caused them problems when they bought one in the 70's. Maybe down the pipeline if GM starts toward the road to profitability again and has some liquid assets, should they consider the namechange to Opel, but at this point in time, I don't think they can afford to take a chance any further. It could really go either way.

I actually agree with you in the fact that Hummer and Saab should be axed. Though I like Saab cars, I don't know a single person who owns a newer one. When I ask people I know, who are in the market for a car of that pricerange, if they've even considered Saab, I get the same answers like "why would I consider a car in that pricerange with a turbo-4 when I can have X car with a punchy V6?". Likewise, Hummer should be sold to the highest bidder as soon as possible. From the sale of those two, GM could soldier on for at least a few more years, and have more money for product improvements, refreshes, and marketing right there. I still believe that with some more marketing along with local assembly of the Astra, Saturn could survive and turn the tables. The Astra is a great little car, but due to the currency fluctuations, puts it at a higher starting price than that of its direct competitors. If Pontiac existed on a smaller scale and offered "niche cars" like Solstice and G8 variants, I think it could work, but I don't think Pontiac can keep going selling in volume anymore. I just don't think it's what people want or need anymore. Sadly, I hope it can survive but as I've said so many times now, not if it has to survive the way it is right now.

It looks like I'm not alone in this. Everyone on here talks up a big game, but when it comes down to it, more and more people will be shopping for smaller, more fuel efficient cars. Canada differentiates from the U.S. in this way. Up here, we have accepted smaller cars moreso than in the U.S. so in trying times such as these, we, as a country, aren't feeling as though we are giving up everything we love about the big American car and "settling" with smaller cars, such as our American brethren. Pontiac, for what it's worth, was a great division up until recently. Unfortunately, it's fallen into defeat by the state of the economy, and future trying economic times. GM isn't the only corporation to fall into such drastic decision making, it's happening all over. As Satty has said, you won't ever see sales of a million mustangs in 18 months, but someday you might see that from a camry or malibu. I think this to be true as well. It's just a sign of the times, and if we don't like it, well, that's just too bad for us. If any of you would like to front the bill to save a division, by all means, help GM out. It's funny that you all expect GM as a corporation to hold onto a heritage division that there's no longer a market for, while at the same time trying to acrue some much-needed assets. You have to realize that there's less cost to GM (at this point in time) to expend Pontiac, than Saturn. If you want to be pissed about it, so be it, but that's the situation they find themselves in, self-inflicted or not.

Sorry, didn't realize it was something you were going to be driving as well. If that's the case, then yes, you should definitely get something you both would want to drive.

And if anyone would be happy about Pontiac becoming said FWD clone division, then you aren't as big a Pontiac fanbase as I thought you all were. Though I would hate to see any division go, I would hate more for a heritage division like Pontiac or Buick to soldier on with poor products that are unrelated to their background. ie to see Pontiac with small FWD econoboxes that are re-badged daewoo products is truly sad, likewise if Buick came out with a small econo car, I would be just as sad, as that is not the direction these divisions should be going. Saturn, as you are all glad to say, is a failure with it's original mission. It's been this huge money pit that GM mistakingly thought up. While, as much of that might be true, it doesn't have the background and heritage that the others have. It doesn't have rich history drilled deep within the American roots of society. This is why GM can (and is trying) to re-invent Saturn. As I stated in my previous post, with a percentage of the retail network that the other divisions have, and marketing $$$ going into the new 'bu among other more popular bread-and-butter products, it's no wonder why the public has no idea what Saturn is, offers or is trying to become. On a similar note, going back to the malibu, look at how much more attention GM is paying to that car, compared with the Aura. They are essentially the same car. Both look classy, both have polished looks, both have won Car of the Year, both have the same exact gov't EPA ratings, yet ask anyone, and they will tell you that the 'bu's highway rating is 33 MPG. Ask those same people about the Aura, and they probably won't realize it has the same rating. Plain and simple, how can Saturn light up the sales chart with a fraction of the available resources that the other divisions have? But with what it does have, it's doing decently well. We all know how long a public's perception of a product or division takes to overcome. GM has had to do it with their whole organization. Same will go with Saturn (if it survives that long). Lastly, would I miss Pontiac if it went away? Sure I would, but then again, I already miss it because it's not these days, what it stood for in the past. To me, Pontiac as I knew it, is already dead.

it's too bad that more people don't realize that.

Better J cars? Legacy divisions? Do you hear yourself? Better yet, why hasn't anyone answered my questions yet in my previous posts? I would STILL like to know how anyone thinks GM could have differentiated Olds, Pontiac, Buick, CHevy in today's market? My point is that it was inevitable. Olds was axed because there was no further direction for them to follow. Today, no one looks for "budget performance" which seems to be what Pontiac has stood for throughout it's history, so it as well, should go. It's no longer needed. What Pontiac does offer right now at this point in time, can be better used in other divisions. Um, Saturn was never seperate from GM. They were always under that umbrella, whether or not people knew it. And really, doesn't it say much that people flocked to a brand like Saturn and not other "known" divisions of GM because they were looking for a different kind of manufacturer (not realizing Saturn was in the GM fold). Obviously GM failed to attract such people with it's "known brands" like Chevy, Pontiac, Geo, etc. Ocnblu, your statement about THE saturn customer who has moved away from GM and no one come back in it's place, well, that's B.S. I am a 3 time Saturn customer and I've enjoyed my experience with them quite a bit. People are starting to say they like the new products that are available through Saturn now. The cheap stigma is finally starting to wear off, so its just a matter of time before even more fresh faces enter the showrooms. Just because several on this board dislike Saturn because they think it was an experiment gone wrong, doesn't mean that Saturn would be any better not existing. Personally I think that, although not profitable as of yet, Saturn has done rather decent. If you take things into account like how it has a small percentage of dealer networks across Canada and the U.S. compared to GM's other divisions, the lack of ad dollars gone into Saturn's public perception (hey, you can have one great car on your hands, but if the public isn't aware it exists or is competitive, who's going to buy it?) Saturn has, for the past 17 years, been the red-headed stepchild of GM. They were the sole reason the customer satisfaction ratings throughout all of GM's divisions have vastly improved (because everyone now follows Saturn's low-pressure sales tactics), they were the test-experiments for the rest of GM's product line (L-series created to introduce the Vectra to N/A, Aura to bring over newer Gen Vectra platform, Ion redline to iron out the kinks for Chevy's Cobalt SS/SC, Vue to introduce Theta chassis before Nox and Torrent). The list goes on. You guys can say what you want about Saturn, but the truth is that without Saturn, I wouldn't have put my faith in GM as a company either, because I prefer to own smaller cars myself, and when the alternative to my original S-series was a cavalier or sunfire, I was going to otherwise end up at Honda. My purchase of an SC1 with it's great gas mileage, was what drew me back into the GM fold. I love driving my 08 Vue. Sure it's heavy, but it kills the nox and torrent in refinement, handling and overall driving characteristics. I can't wait to own an Astra when the time comes to get a second vehicle for my personal commute to work. The thought of it excites me. It's such a great little car, that, to me, re-energizes GM's small car segment. Personally, I couldn't care less about the cobalt and G5 since they were identical in feel to my previous ION. Good cars, but I want to move forward in my car buying decisions, not backwards. Back to the topic at hand, the saving of the Pontiac brand, and why it wouldn't be cut out for today's consumer.

I've also got Astra on the brain as well. Though I won't be purchasing one till about 3-4 years from now. Keep us posted if you grab one of the astras. I love those cars.

Congratulations to Hyundai for a great acomplishment. On a side note, if I've got 20K to sink into a car, do you think for a second I would buy one just because it was built in my own backyard? Only if it was deserving of my money. Personally I would rather buy the car that suited my needs and budget the best. After all, I'll be driving that same car for the next # of years, and maybe Joe assembler who was working on the day my car was assembled, might have moved on to a different job, or different field of work altogether. You can say I'm patriotic, I'd also like to think so. However I draw the line when it comes to my money and how I want to spend it. I can support my country's economy in many ways, it doesn't have to be just through a car purchase.

Saturn didn't kill Olds at all, more like GM's decision making. Saturn was an experiment, and for the first few years it started doing well. If GM kept evolving Saturn based on it's philosophy, it would have kept turning a profit. Instead, they chose to starve their new division of R&D and marketing, and kept the same product for 11 years, except with minor refreshes. In the meantime, the japanese further advanced their lead to bring consumers a far superior car than Saturn's refreshed line could bring. On the issue of Olds, again, what would a bran like Olds do in times like these? Your American economy is in a bad spot right now, the dollar is very weak, people are losing their jobs, houses and cars in the wake of a recession, but you want to keep a performance division around? It wasn't selling well even when the economy was decent. These days, people are looking to squeeze by, so they turn to fuel efficient cars that can suit their needs. Performance isn't even in the cards these days. Why do you think Cadillac sales are in a slump? Not because the product is stale, but because that's not where the focus is these days. Hate Saturn all you want, but I love the idea of driving an Opel-based vehicle over here in NA. My second car in 3-4 years time will be an 08 Astra. While it's not the quickest car in it's segment, it's definitely what appeals to me. It's decently quick with a manual, looks great, and handles wonderfully. I wouldn't ask for more than that personally. But you can all hold onto your dreams of big, powerful RWD whatever cars to be parked in your driveways, Pontiac or otherwise. Sooner or later, the economy will catch up to you too, just as it has to everyone else already. Happy motoring.

GM is GM's worst mistake. Bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. That's what it boils down to. OK I get it, you don't like Saturn, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Here's mine. What purpose would Oldsmobile, Buick, Pontiac and Chevy all serve in today's market? They all overlap. There is no need for slightly different variations of cars within the same automaker in today's market. I see it all as overhead cost that needs to be trimmed down. Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Buick, for the most part, are the same. Nothing substantiating differentiated them from eachother. They all shared engines and platforms, making it more of a choice of "Do I like the look of this car over that one, because they are otherwise identical". I woud like to see Buick injected with new life, as not everyone wants cadillac edginess or chevy boring, or saturn euro-feel. Pontiac, on the other hand, went from the excitement brand, to the brand that offers re-badges from Chevy, Toyota and Holden. But wait, they do have the solstice - a car with the same underpinnings as the Sky. Lutz was good for a short time, bringing quality interiors and a few cool cars back into the GM fold, not to mention bringing some much-wanted ideas into the company, but his flavour seems to have worn off. He needs to be removed from the podium, along with Wagoner. Let's get someone in there willing to listen to what the public wants, rather than doing the things they THINK the public wants.

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing

It's not so simple to just change the Saturn logo to an Opel logo. For those that remember Opel being sold on U.S. shores many moons ago, it left a sour taste in the mouths of americans. It costs money to change the logo over, not to mention, more money on top of that to re-create positive brand recognition for those who aren't familiar with Opel overseas... Now that I think of it, since everyone here is so keen to break the Saturn name and simply sell Opel products with an Opel badge...let's do the same with Vauxhall in the U.K. but why stop there, let's re-badge the Pontiac G8 as a Holden since that's also the proper way it should be.

Getting back to the original post, if I were the Lebanese guy, I would have totally gone up to the old lady and said something along the lines of "watch your back" just to freak her out more.

Stupid move? You mean smart move. There is no need to have Hummer aorund anymore. There aren't enough bighshots ordering blinged-out Hummers around to support the brand. Let's face it, that's pretty much what it's come down to.

Since assembly is slated to be on this continenet for the next-gen, I think it's feasibe to say it would cost less than the current one, or at least I hope. As for the engine choices, I couldn't agree with you more. Though 138hp is more than enough for the average person, a little choice wouldn't hurt. I would like to see a diesel option, and a more powerful gas variant as well, but nothing smaller than the 1.8L as the car is 2,800 lbs already. Less power in a car like this could further hurt fuel economy.