saturnd00d

I love it, would buy that in a second. I don't think the interior is bad at all. I actually think it's pretty good for the segment it's in.

That's too funny, but I don't agree with vandalizing anyone's property. I'd rather just dust them on the streets to make them look stupid.

I personally would think that it's a dumb move. Amongst there most efficient plants, are the ones in Canada. Take those out of the operations of GM, and you have far less awards and credentials to be used for marketing purposes, amongst other important things such as job losses for canadian workers and auto part suppliers, etc. Canada has huge market demands for small cars and lightweight trucks, moreso than anything else.

Funny thing is, the sunbird pictured above was the first car I ever owned, except mine was a 1990 and white with black bumpers/mouldings. It was already 8 years old and lasted me another 4 before I traded to my s-series. The guy who bought it off me in 2002 still has it to this day. Hated that 2.0L engine though.

True, although I'm not so sure the Astra would fit at the top of the lineup., because I think a Vue successor would still be a good idea. The original vue worked well for the brand. I think the Saturn brand should include a Corsa-type vehicle (yaris/fit competitor), meriva-type vehicle (mazda 5 competitor), Astra-type vehicle (in hatchback and sedan form), compact CUV (similar to size of current vue). I say 'type' vehicles because since Saturn won't be selling Opel re-branded vehicles anymore, I can't refer to their Opel names. I think Saturn should be the division to offer manual tranny's in all their cars (if desired as a no-cost option) to help with fuel economy, flexibility (like premium options such as nav, premium sound, etc.) in cars that would normally not offer that, etc. Also, why not offer turbo models, or BAS hybrid trim? There are many things GM could do with Saturn to make them sell far better and make a profit. Unfortunately, what alot of people don't understand on this board and others, is that it takes years for public perception to change. In fact, to this day, many people still think Saturn makes unrefined, cheaply built plastic vehicles. Some food for thought.

I love the XLR. I still, to this day, look at it and think clean and timeless design. I'll be saddened to see it go, but I know that it's a car that's not really a necessity for GM right now.

Personally, I think there is enough truck product within GM, there is more than enough midlevel products, premium products, etc. Where GM lacks (and severely might I add) is what they offer to a large segment of consumers, which is the compact and subcompact segment. Offering the G3/Aveo to combat the fit/yaris duo is a joke, and the cobalt/G5 duo along with the Astra to combat the more popular offerings from Japan is definitely a good start, but need to remain competitive. If you take away the Astra, your left with one car/two divisions. WOW, what a way to offer choice. Update the cobalt to be competitive and fresh, and offer the astra (built in NA to reduce MSRP and save on various extra costs) with more powertrain options/trim levels and offer it with a slightly more attractive MSRP. Until brand and model awareness are properly established for Saturn, they can't go and charge for a premium image they don't fit. Also, a huge problem with GM is that they no longer stick with familiar names. How can you build up brand awareness/model recognition when you change the lineup names more than underwear? The cavalier run was a good example of how they should have kept a name going, but they obviously scrapped the cavalier/sunfire names due to trying to change perception of the models that replaced them. They should pick a 'good' name and stick with it.

The car looks fantastic to me, inside and out. Should sell pretty well.

I do agree that Saturns should return to selling compact cars to retain customers in that market, as they were meant to do in the first place. however I'm not so sure rebadging and continuing to sell Opels here is the clearcut answer. Rebadging Opels definitely saves on the development front, but the profit from the sale of those cars heavily depends on market conditions such as the cost of the dollar compared to the Euro, and freight costs, VAT factored in, etc. I say, design and engineer as a joint venture but build North American versions locally, and European versions overseas (like what is done with the Vue). That might help GM pocket some extra coin.

Congrats on your new car.

Not to stir up controversy here, but if the new Nox is based off Theta like my vue is, it's not actually hurting for rear hip room. I mean, I'm always the driver in any case, but I've never had anyone say it was tight back there. I think it'll be ok if that's the case.

Yep, I was happiest as a child when one year, I received 7 or 8 pro wrestlers (the old rubber ones with painted undies) and the WWF ring to go with it all. Still have the wrestlers (and more as well) but the ring was broken in half when my dad accidentally stepped on it). Argh, could have been worth money by now.

I'm with above...

Yes, the s-series was quite a good car for the money, but it never had that premium feel to it. I should know, I owned one. Parts were more expensive for them since they were on their own designated platform, with their own designated powertrains as well. From a consumer standpoint, they offered good looks but sub-par build quality, so to pay that for a compact car wouldn't be an issue. You felt like you were getting a bargain. The astra offers nothing sub-par about it. It's still economical, but it's a much better built and looking vehicle. It's reminiscent of a VW-type car. If VW can charge top dollar and have people pay it, why not Saturn (and Opel) with the astra? When I had my 04 ION, I added a rear anti-sway bar alongside the torsion beam (which had an OEM one welded in line with it as well). Made a huge difference in the stability of the car. I'm not exactly sure if the astra has one or not, but that issue aside, the feel of the car while your driving it screams premium. The precision of the shifter compared to the one found in cobalts, ions, etc. is a huge difference for example, the ride quality, the material feel of the interior, the standard features list, there's aot of car for the money. Is it more than it should be priced at? I would agree, but I understand that's because it's an imported car. Therefore, as a potential buyer of one, I'm going to buy it used. Do I feel GM should bring the cost down? Of course I do, and I hope they will, should they continue to develop it for the N/A market. Not doing so would be a huge mistake. Look at the people who bought focus hatches, VW Golfs, Mazda 3 hatches, etc.

I've always had a softspot for the Riv. Beautiful and well kept car you have there.

Yes, the Astra is a huge flop and I'll tell you why. 3 things to consider. 1. It's a hatchback and typically, hatchbacks aren't sold in the same kind of numbers as sedans or coupes in the U.S.A. 2. Astras are imported. This is huge. GM has already confirmed (earlier on when things weren't in doubt) that the next gen astra was to be built either in U.S. or Mexico, because the imported astra loses too much money due to conversion and shipping rates. 3. Marketing. How many commercials and the like have you seen for this car? Seriously, there's not much awareness for it outside of people showing up to the dealership thinking Saturn still sold an ION. Web ads like those that appear on yahoo don't really do much to stir emotion. Those things aside, who here has actually driven an astra? Not read reviews (which are mostly positive anyways) but actually sat inside and taken one for a drive? I have, and I can honestly say it feels way better than any cobalt ever would, and the funny thing is that they ride on the same chassis, albeit, the astras is more finely tuned to european driving specs. The car feels solid. Take it around corners and you don't have much body roll at all, and although the engine is a bit weak, it's still peppy to drive in a manual version. I've had no build issues with my mexico-assembled Vue, so whether the next gen astra was assembled in the U.S. or mexico wouldn't concern me at all. I think it would do a ton better if marketed decently, and assembled locally to save on costs. I think GM could realitically reduce the MSRP by 2 grand or so. At least for an entry level version.

gmcbob, I didn't know you had an 08 Vue. Cool. Anyways, don't trust the Oil Life Monitor for any validity. To my knowledge, it won't come on till your oil is 95% contaminated. In my opinion, too late for it to be coming on. As well, I was given a recall letter that the oil life monitor is defective in the 08 Vue depending on your build date, and that it's a simple reflash of the computer to fix it. Not sure if it affected the 3.5/3.6 Vue's, but my 4-banger was affected by it.

I fumbled the idea of grabbing up one of these last year, but decided otherwise because of the amount of driving/gas consumption I would face. I've always loved them though.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays everyone

OK great, Toyota can throw money at marketing the hell out of the camry, but commercials do not sell the car. It's about getting people in the showroom to see it/drive it that truly counts. We all know the Malibu is a great car, but then again, so is the aura. If you can't get people in the showroom to view your lineup, your car can't exactly sell itself any other way.

Seriously, I don't get why so many people are hung up on changing the name to Opel. Does no one care that it would cost a ton of money to do that? Or how about to build up the Opel name in NA? Vauxhall is a great example of a product badged under a different logo and sold exclusively in a different market. If it can work for them, why not for the Saturn brand? vt_hokie, as much as I admired the polymer panels as well, they will never go back to that. The niche market that Saturn had back in the early days was never big enough to support the cost of building such a vehicle. I'd be all for Saturn going back to its roots, but it's been proven too costly for GM, and if it came down to it, I think they would rather close Saturn than to go back to polymer. And to address the marketing funding, let's try this GM, don't spend 500 bajillion dollars marketing your Malibu and no other car, and you'll see that all of a sudden, you'll have a bit more marketing money to play with. Seriously, why do I have to see 3 or 4 commercials for the malibu every hour on the hour? If I wasn't an enthusiast who reads up on GM on an almost daily basis, I would tend to think that the malibu was the only car they actually made.

I think GM should position Saturn to be a small car brand again, because I feel that is one area GM is hugely lacking right now. Whether you like it or not, the Volt and Cruze aren't going to help GM as much as it needs them to. They need more small offerings, and I think Saturn should pick up that slack. Leave the midsize stuff to the other divisions as there is already an abundance of that stuff already within GM.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...94_FORTUNE5.htm Not entirely saying they are saved, but GM is considering alternatives to help Saturn survive. My guess is to avoid paying out the dealer network.

Sorry PC-S, I completely missed your reply until now, but thank you for your words. It's also great that you know a few different languages. Definitely can benefit you in life if you put it to the test.

I get what your saying, but I'm saying that what may be true for Buick, is also true for Saturn, and what's also true for Pontiac if you think about it. GM screwed up, bottom line. If it wants to keep screwing up, it should just offer multiple versions of the same car across the board, as opposed to focusing each brand to conform to a set market. In my opinion, Saturn should be premium entry, a la VW Pontiac should be performance-oriented Buick should be entry lux None of them should stray from that, but since they have, it's up to GM to correct the paths of these divisions. Witho9ut doing so will, not might, but will put them into a chapter 11 faster than anything else. You can downsize, eliminate divisions, execs, etc. but the inevitable will happen regardless. GM must change their ways, correct their bad habits, or not live to rule again. Simple as that.