97regalGS

i debated about replying to your post. figured i'd address part of it. gmcanada web site. CTS - $36,000 CGTS with 3.6l - $40,000 CTS Sport with Auto is $51,500(don't see many of them on the road though) Allure CXS - $35,500 (loaded $41,000) Impala SS - $35,500 base Grand Prix GXP - $36,700 base Bonneville SLE loaded was $46,000 or thereabouts(my dad drives a 2004) Bonneville GXP was like $48,000 or thereabouts I don't know how you do math, but to me it isn't a 50% premium to go to the CTS. And IMO, someone looking at a loaded Allure CXS for $41,000 better be looking across the showroom floor at the CTS.

nice diversion. let me re-cap. someone says - laminated glass, why not do side windows? balth replies - it physically can't be done. (also comments that front windshield is laminated for 'visibility reasons') someone else - Mercedes, Volvo and Buick do it balth replies - some 'niche' guys do it and then gets all defensive(silently admitting that his first response, about it not being possible, was blatantly wrong.) evok jumps in and takes a poke, after some banter, it becomes clear that the purpose of lamination on windshield glass has nothing to do with visibility, but rather occupant safety. thus rendering the second part of balth's first post completely erroneous and misleading. (not intentionally misleading, we hope, but misleading and factually wrong, nonethelss.) then balth adds some meanlingless drivel about cutting glass with a saw and such, that while, amusing is meant to divert people from the fact that his first post was a bunch of hooey.

you forgot BOF.

some of us will be driving SW to get there!

Mercedes has a far older ABA than Cadillac. Cadillac's ABA is dropping, mercedes' is rising (their positions on the scale were reversed about 5 years ago.Average Buyer Age~ Mercedes -- 58.7 Cadillac -- 53.4 Jaguar -- 49.8 Lexus -- 49.4 BMW -- 46.1 Infiniti -- 41.6 Really, only infiniti has a relatively enviable ABA- even BMW's is only the median age of all car buyers; certainly not what would be termed 'youthful'. Any "open-minded luxury buyer" that would not consider Cadillac is in no way "open-minded". So the question remains- just who are all these new Cadillac customers pushing sales up year after year, and what did they trade in from other brands?? What was the problem again? 215576[/snapback] since you love to squash facts so much, tell me the break down of the ABA. is it a bunch of 25yr old NBA stars buying Escalades combined with 60+yr olds buying Devilles? Or is it an equal mix across all age categories? ABA, while interesting does not tell the whole story-not even close. and by the way, I would never expect any luxury marque to have a 'youthful' ABA, since not many 'youth' have the cash necessary. I surmise that many of these Cadillac customers are GM customers that are trading in Bonnevilles, Regals, Grand Prix etc. And the problem is that the CTS is a strong product for a GM fan to buy, but not for a 3, G35, A4, etc buyer to buy. Not because the car isn't capable, but because Cadillac is not on their radar screen. And the lacklustre follow on products have done nothing to lend credence to the image of the brand or to keep momentum going. Let's face it, Cadillac's sales success is predicated on the 'unexpected' bling factor of the Escalade and the existence of a car (CTS) in a segment where there wasn't one or at least not a strong one(the melted bar of soap Catera hardly qualifies).

did it really gain a foothold in the entry lux segment? or did a bunch of GM fans just buy a CTS instead of some other GM product? I surmise that there weren't near as many conquest sales as they were hoping for. I fully expect NG CTS to do just that, win over conquest sales.

is it April 1st today?

so which is it? are you a Cadillac hater or not?

anyone got a copy of that thing? Northstar?I saw it once or twice, but don't recall much about it.

Here's the crux of the problem. The current crop of Cadillacs are NOT considered by open minded luxury buyers. The 30-50 yr old crowd that are shopping BMW, Infiniti, Audi, Lexus and Mercedes do not have Cadillac on their radar. The NG CTS might address some of that. I certainly hope so.

Please specify which of my statements indicates that I agree with dford's or anyone else's comments.

sounds like the original A&S was on the right track, but the product planners had their heads in the sand. in that scenario, the STS would have been a similarily sized ugly looking car with a V8 option. (wasn;t it supposed to be Imaj-like with a weird front end and next to no decklid?) given that lutz put the brakes on the STS, sounds like things were pretty messed up at GM. in reality, evok, how much credit to you attribute to lutz and the impact he has had on GM's product planning & globalization turnaround? is he the right guy at the right time, or was he instrumental in turning the big ship?

In the 60's Cadillac trounced them and in the 70's they were merely competitive. In the 80's and 90's they were.....? Excellent point. Cadillac's best work was not 47 years ago, it was, (according to balthazar, sometime in the 70's) at least 26+ years ago. That's a HUGE difference. NOT.

here's a thought. if you don't like the pictures on a thread, um, I don't know, turn off your computer. it's not like the topic of the thread wasn't a dead give away. as for O.C., hope you come back, you're one of the saner folks around here(although I think the hissy fit over the warning is a bit of an overreaction)

Let's put this topic on 'The Shelf'

sounds reasonable. except for the ultra V8 part.

you mean to get back to the 267,000 from 2004? i don't think Edge will address that gap. difference between GM and Ford. GM seems to have some pretty good product coming down the pipe. Ford has...................?

do you really expect ANYONE to take seriously a 'luxury utility'?????

I'd suggest 'below average'. No emotional appeal. "Moments" continues to be THE Cadillac commercial.

a tire/wheel combo needs to be balanced. if u keep the same wheels and just buy tires, you will have to have the tires balanced every time they are installed on the wheel. every time you have the tires changed, you'll have to have the wheels on the machine that 'installs' the tires, which adds some wear to the wheel. there is a cost to do that every season, so it also depends on how long you want to keep the car. if you do buy a winter wheel/tire package, then you'll probably be able to sell it used (as long as decent tread on tire) in the future. re: aftermarket wheels. you can get a set of 15" for $100 Cdn, with tires installed. black steel wheels cost $60 Cdn new, plus tire installation, so the price difference is not that significant if you are concerned about the 'look' of your car for 5 months of the year. also, if u want hub caps, got to add the cost of those too. finally, $$ while a concern, doesn't seem to be the prime issue, as I don;t think that X-ice are the least expensive winter tires you can buy.

my first car was an '80 chevette sedan my aunt had a vega i ownded a '79 skyhawk (RWD model that looked like Monza not FWD 80's version)

Aveo Sedan Ion Sedan Canyon Crew Cab Terraza SV6 H3 I wouldn't consider any of them.

isn't a 97 Prizm actually a 97 Corolla?

hey croc, you see, sometimes I do have some sense. (at least, according to turbo)

agreed, there is still a market perception issue, BUT, product can overcome that. and product can dictate pricing, to a large extent. so far, Cadillac has not come to market with a 'no excuses, no shortcuts' product yet. Current Escalade is probably the closest thing, and with impact of gas prices I'm not really sure how successful it is, (in general and relative to internal expectations). NG CTS had better be that product. No excuses. It has to be. With the right product, it won't take 10 years. If the business case made sense and the Cien and Sixteen had come to market very quickly and as close to concept as possible, you don't think the world would stand up and take notice? (even if the Sixteen was sized down a bit with a NS V8, it would have been impressive). On that note, it is time for Cadillac to have another concept car. Two years with nothing is too long. Cadillac needs to debut the CTS and a concept at NAIAS and then show us the CTS coupe and/or convertible 'concept' at NY.