PurdueGuy

Don't forget worse fuel economy than the LeSabre/Park Avenue it replaced, even with the V6. My in-laws regret the day they traded their Park Avenue in on the Lucerne, as it's really not that much nicer, and it gets worse fuel economy. My mother in law is digging the XM Radio, tho.

You again sidestepped the issue.

You failed to address the issue: GM isn't wasting any money on Hummer, they're already looking for the best "out" they can get. You're saying they should do exactly what they are already doing. Also, last I checked Pontiac makes money. Why should they get rid of that? They certainly need to work on the image, but it's pretty stupid to tell GM they should spend billions to get rid of a profitable (if not generally cherished) brand. I agree Saab should go, and I'm on the fence about Saturn.

Now, do this with Saturn again... How exactly does this help GM not lose money with Saab? The only positive thing I see it doing is trying to make it more appealing to potential buyers. I personally think it's going to take a LOT more than this to make it appealing to buyers. Something like... Saab becoming profitable. In which case, GM would be better off keeping it... I don't hate Saab, but I'm darn skeptical that this is going to do much aside from drag out the long & painful death of Saab.

I'll agree with Saab being a waste of money, but Hummer has made GM gobs of money with vehicles that required little money to develop, and it's not like GM is pouring money into Hummer anymore. From what I have seen & heard, Hummer was a flash in the pan... but a flash that made money at the right time. It has reached a point where it needs to be gotten rid of (though it'd be nice if they could have no Hummer dealers, but simply offer something along the lines of the Hx through Chevy dealers), and guess what... they're getting rid of it. Complaining about Hummer is like complaining about GMC. Yes, they're mildly reskinned Chevys. But guess what? THEY'VE MADE MONEY. And guess what it is GM is in business to do... GM needs more product that inspires passion and loyalty, even if among a select buyer group, like GMC and Hummer have. That's where you get improved profit margins. They just need to figure out how to do it without having a burdensome dealership network left over after the trends have shifted...

I really need to get a buddy of mine to write a book. He works in auto parts sales in a small chain in the midwest. He's much more knowledgeable than the typical parts counter guy, as he has also worked as a mechanic. (He's still wrong on occasion, but it's more the exception than the rule.) He has the BEST "dumb customer" stories. Lessee, there's the kid that was complaining of his brakes not working very well, which turned out to be rotors worn through to the vents, as well as ruined calipers. He sold the kid new calipers, pads, rotors, and explained the core policy on the calipers. Kid goes out in the parking lot & takes the calipers off his car, cutting the brake lines to remove them, and brings them back in. Then there's the guy that insisted that his dodge truck had a bad turn signal switch, because the blinkers were blinking too fast, and he'd already replaced the blinker module. In the process of helping the guy check his bulbs, the guy snaps his turn signal switch off in a rage, only to walk to the back of the truck and clearly see he had a burnt out bulb. And soooo many more... Gotta get him to write a book.

note that it's leaking fuel lines in '06-'08 vehicles, which means it only took about 2 years for leaks to occur. Yeah... that's quality.

Toyota Corolla: highway mpg: 35.

I've had just as bad of experiences with dealership parts people as I have regular parts stores, so... Let's see, couple quick examples... -dealership couldn't find me a driver's side power door lock actuator (brand of dealer = brand of car). After trying to sell me the wrong part, and my insisting that it was the wrong part, they told me they had to make some phone calls and would call me, and never did. -requested flywheel bolts, got flexplate bolts. (kinda close, but completely wrong.)

Except that the move from 3 to 5 doors messed up the look considerably, IMO.

had some codes checked at autozone, got one for the cam position sensor. I was soooo tempted to let the guy look one up for me. (Hint: there isn't one.)

sounds like a good way to get sued...

Oh c'mon guys... you act like it's hard to convince the right person to sign off on this stuff. It's the gov't, the rules are there to be ignored or broken. Show some shiny pictures to the right person to make them drool, tell them it's a hybrid, and they'll sign off on it. As for "this is why we shouldn't have taken the loan"... the other option (bankruptcy) was better?

I would agree with that, except that with Saturn they did things that could not be done with an established brand: -unique labor agreement -unique mentality about how the dealership works -new production methods (which required the unique contract agreement to be implemented) You simply couldn't do any of those things with an existing brand. And guess what... they worked very well. Unfortunate that everything that was unique about Saturn couldn't make a small car with a small profit margin profitable enough to offset a huge and underutilized manufacturing facility, so even though the S-Series was selling in volumes that put half of GM's BRANDS (let alone products) to shame (compare 300k+ S-Series sales for multiple years to the numbers someone posted for brand sales for '08), they couldn't come up with the funds to continue development of new product until GM assimilated them into the status quo of the rest of the brands. It's been downhill since, even with an ever-expanding lineup of product.

Just looks like a current prius with the camry pig-nose.

What's sad is that Saturn used to sell twice that many cars with one model (granted, 3 body styles).

I almost like it. The exterior proportions are almost nice, but I'm not crazy about the exterior styling. The interior is neat, but I don't think the seats would be terribly comfortable (and the flower pattern on the passenger end of the seats is just yuck). The steering wheel design is neat, and good for seeing through to the gauges, but not a very functional design. It would probably break, and I prefer to hold the steering wheel on the bottom when I've got the cruise on going down the interstate (a gripe I also have with GM's 3-spoke wheel designs).

Hot. Make it fun to drive too, and it'll sell. Also, I don't see why we can't have some kind of very futuristic interior like this in a production car. Seriously... is some creativity with some LEDs and nice plastics really that hard? It's a Caddy, you can cover the extra cost in the price tag...

Looks good, I assume by the comparisons to the HHR that it is very comparable in size to the HHR? If so, I agree with the statements to not necessarily replace the HHR with this, unless HHR sales have dropped considerably by then. This has its own appeal that I don't think would necessarily pick up HHR buyers. A lot of people may not like the retro look, but a lot of people do.

Looks very good!

That looks pretty sweet. Looks like an updated Dodge Stealth.

should've made it 2-dr. If people want to carry around more than themselves & 1 passenger, they should buy a bigger car. Heck, I'd be tempted to remove the rear seat & make it better cargo space anyway. A car this size should simply concentrate on being fun, efficient, and comfortable for TWO.

...and more limited offerings from the sound of it. Have to have a Lexus to get directions? You can get the turn-by-turn system in the Cobalt IIRC.

I guess I'm in the minority... I don't like the name Invicta. I don't like how it feels saying it, feels awkward. LaCrosse feels better to say, though I wouldn't be against a different name.

Those traits are completely gone - no more Saturns in Spring Hill, no more polymer.