PurdueGuy

Bingo. In the history of Saturn, the success of the product was inversely proportional to the amount of involvement of parent GM. S-Series was all Saturn, and WILDLY successful. Every product after had more & more GM involvement, and progressively lost sales and loyalty.

Saturn & Scion are as different as they are alike. Scion has always done one thing above all else - try to be cool. That was not Saturn's aim. I'm curious - how many Scion's have been sold? Saturn sold it's 1 millionth car in their 4th model year.

what's a vtec piston?

I don't see a problem, as long as they're smart about it. I.E do not ignore the need for scheduled maintenance. You cannot operate a system at 100%, it will break. But you can run 3 shifts if you're smart about how you do the scheduled maintenance, and be smart about dealing with downtime. Keep it a pull system and if something happens to stop the line, don't let everything else carry on as if nothing's wrong.

Wow... I... I agree with something smk wrote. Well, except replace Hyundai with hoping Ford and/or GM get their act together enough to be the ones to eat up Toyota's market share. Though I'd say Hyundai might be more likely to take a larger share. Toyota has been arrogant for a while now. They set their sites on being the biggest, and let any quality focus they had left go (though I personally think it's always been more talk and smoke & mirrors than an actual through and through company creed). A company can get away with making bland cars if they are also uber reliable, safe, etc. But they've gone from being a little better (but good at convincing people they were a lot better) to not as good (and at times not good at all), and it's showing.

Very cool.

I want to like it... but I can't. And I loved the Reventon.

Raise your hand if you couldn't care less about any of this. *raises hand*

Do these nice vehicles get to live in a garage? Sad to think about a $30k car having to live outside under the trees... Very nice car.

But would GM profit as well from them? Watering down the base waters down the car's whole image. The least expensive model is probably going to sell the most volume, but the lower you take the base model, the lower the profit margin likely is, and if those base model sales erode the upper model sales as well, you shoot yourself in the foot. I'm not against a lower level car on the same platform, but IMO it should be a distinct model. If the name Chevette wasn't already tainted, it'd be a cool name for an entry level corvette platform based performance car.

IMO, cars this size should be made to make sense to people who will only have 1-2 people in the car 99% of the time. Front seating should be spacious, and rear seats not horrible to ride in, but should fold down to provide a great cargo space for those 1-2 people. Trying to make a car this size make sense for hauling around 3, 4, or 5 people results in an awful compromise that really does provide a penalty box for those 1-2 people all the time. People who want to haul 3-5 people around all the time should at least be buying something at the larger end of the compact range, or really a midsize.

Wow... yup, I have zero interest in owning this vehicle. I'm also rather insulted that GM rigged the voting.

Nope, SW wasn't intro'd until '93 while the coupe & wagon came out in '91. Sedan & coupe intro'd together, though. Also, the coupe originally only came in DOHC garb with flip-up lights & named SC, which was renamed SC2 in '93 when they intro'd the SOHC SC1 with fixed lights.

Truck: A+ Video: C Sounds like they played the song (good song btw) on some kind of player and recorded it with a computer microphone & then put it in the vid. Killed the quality, which made it painful to listen to. But yeah... that's one sexy truck!

Depends - is that the mpg seen from someone doing spirited driving, normal driving, or gentle driving? If that's the best one can get out of gentle driving, then that would be disappointing. If from normal driving, a bit disappointing, but not horrible if the car overall is very enjoyable aside from mpgs, and if that's from spirited driving, then I wouldn't be disappointed with that one tiny bit. When these come out, we're going to get mixed stories about what people get. I expect I'll have to pound my head against the wall when certain people pick up on the first few lower than hoped for mpg reports & act like it's an across the board thing and the end of GM. Give time for varied reports to come in from owners once these cars come out.

Truth is there are those that do believe that the brand, in it's final years (decade?) was irrelevant aside from a very few select models. It's an open forum, and people will express themselves. Now, some could certainly choose to do so more maturely. The same thing goes for Saturn. I can understand viewpoints that see Saturn as a distraction or a waste, but these opinions often get expressed on here with kindergarten level insults. I can't see condemning the whole board for it, whether it's about Pontiac, Saturn, or something else, as those people with those views will be anywhere you go.

I got a hat a while back.

I was under the impression that the ForTwo was having far less than expected US sales...

What's this? A poorly made website with an online petition? PONTIAC IS SAVED! Oh wait, no it's not. Pretty sure all rights to Pontiac are still owned by GM, even if the brand is dead. If the Pontiac name were separated from GM, it would still have no manufacturing facility. If they somehow aquired the large amount of capital needed to aquire a factory, they'd still have no product, as GM would still hold all rights to all the designs. Oh, maybe a group owning Pontiac could get another manufacturer to make cars for them, then just add on Pontiac badges! It maybe almost worked for Saturn! Um, no. Nice to dream, but it ain't happening. That's not a brand bias thing, it's a reality of business thing. The only way I see Pontiac coming back ever is as a low volume high margin specialty vehicle sold through a GM dealer. Pretty confident we won't ever see it live as a division or standalone company again.

Except for the part where it's questionable if they ever made a dime off of it. Low volume, lots of hand assembly. The passionate part of me would like to see them fix some problems with them and make a new Chevy version, but the business side of me thinks it's best to let the roadster die for several years, then start from Alpha, and build a business case for the car that makes more sense, involving platform sharing with some other higher volume models.

Quad coupe would be sweet, but I doubt it'll happen.

Ah.

So after not being on the forum for about a day, I click the "view new content" button, and get... 3 results. I highly doubt the board has been that inactive in the last day. Is there a setting somewhere that decides how long after a new post something gets marked as not new anymore? Can we extend that to a few days instead of less than one? Not sure what I missed, or how to find what everyone's been talking about for the last day or so.

I do believe it was about 1-1.5 yrs ago that I predicted the wagon's return to some level of popularity. Though, I'm still waiting on seeing it for the reason I predicted - as a people hauler. Still no 3-row wagons, just short 3-row suv's and 3-row micro minivans. Some would call those wagons, not sure if I'm ready to. Waiting to see something like the Caprice wagon of the early '90's.

I think they've only been maintaining a certain stock level in stores, like less than 5 per store and they're only restocked like once a week. So, as we approach holidays, you get more than 5 people who shop at a store that want one, they run out. I got one a while back, still not sure I think it was a good buy. I'm not unhappy with it at all, we just don't use it as much as we should. But, we bought it & a Wii Fit with the thought of wanting a way to get exercise that didn't depend on the weather, and that if we didn't stick with the exercise wouldn't be a worthless space taking object like a treadmill, etc. We've used it a fair amount for exercise, but not as much as we should. It's also good for some other occasional gaming, and to keep kids occupied when we have friends over that have kids.