El Kabong

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Art St. Antoine dissects the hype behind the new Camaro to explain how it's no longer vintage thrills and same-old thinking for Chevy in the ponycar segment: "It’s hard to overstate just what a leap this 2016 Chevrolet Camaro represents. The new edition isn’t simply the latest upgrade in a long line of Camaros. It’s a shape-shifter. It feels different at its very core, as if its genes had mutated to produce an entirely new specimen, one barely recognizable as belonging to the family lineage." Read the whole article at the link: http://www.automobilemag.com/features/columns/1602-2016-camaro-the-shape-shifter-chevy/

Almost as interesting as noting which brands aren't being discussed.

For obvious reasons I can't log into the forums there. But even with WOT and news articles I'm having issues. Whether or not this is just because they've decided to extend my ban or IT issues I dunno. But based on your experience I'm now leaning toward option 2.

If they price this thing aggressively, it has the potential to cause enormous grief in the segment.

How can you miss someone if they won't go away?

From a customer relations point of view, the EPA Certificate of Confirmity probably goes even further towards selling this thing than the mileage figures. Smart move on GM's part to emphasize that.

The interior looks promising, fer sure. As regards livery sales: there's not a lot Cadiklac can do one way or the other if a coachbuilder wants to modify their products, other than to discourage it.

Happy Belated Birthday, man!

Car and Driver's Camaro vs. Mustang comparo featured an automatic Camaro and a stickshift Mustang. Just got my copy of the magazine today. Posts like this one are why I'm telling you you should hold off on judging the Camaro's looks until you actually see one for yourself

The trucks, man. The TRUCKS!

Congratulations, you have won the Internet. Don't spend it all in one shop

By and large, a well-engineered product will allow for a broader range of capabilities. It may yet be unfair to suggest that the CT6 will have to sacrifice cruisability for bruisability. With that platform at that price and weight, it may well be the total package.

Far from stupid, the discussion in the thread is downright pertinent. The reality is that with the current products Chevy and Ford are offering in the segment there will be some "out of the box" comparisons made. In this case, the comparisons were largely made on forums and message boards. But we are about to witness something similarly out of the box from one of the major car magazines: a head-to-head comparo between a car Ford currently sells (GT350R) and a car that Chevy no longer does (Z/28). In my experience, good grace and humour are the better attitudes to have when faced with such odd situations.

I guess the next question I'll ask someone in the know: did the V6 use urea?

Continental and Imperial were both stand-alone divisions at various points.

Here's food for thought: did Ford possibly just slap on the Shelby badges instead of SVT ones to try and grab a few grand more per car? Maybe the Mustang "SVT" is a low-mid 40 grand car?...

CP and Frisky have dropped in to share their two cent's worth. They are of a similar mindset. Ccap, my man... Ford just got checkmated in the segment. There's no ill-will in that statement. They just... did.

It was the only logical conclusion to come to. Good on you for sticking to your guns, though

What type of " crap " was Ford talking? "I don't think anybody who buys a Shelby GT350 will be disappointed. It delivers," commented Pobst while behind the wheel. And to give the new model some perspective, Pobst also did a hot lap in a Dodge Charger Pursuit, which was just over 15 seconds slower than the new Shelby.[/size] Pobst was commenting on the car with nothing to compare it to. I'm sure he said similar things about the Camaro. And Ford has a track record as of late for advancing folks with breathtaking anger management issues, as we can all read here: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/07/22/ford-exec-drops-f-bomb-on-general-motors-in-upcoming-book/ And if you care to read C/D's initial report on the GT350, they said the same thing: Ford has a track record of talking smack and not being able to back it up. It's why, while I'm disappointed by the tone of many Ford fan's posts, I'm not surprised.

And as a guy who's owned both a Camaro and a Corvette (and is seriously thinking about getting another Camaro): believe me-they are two very different groups, with two very different sets of priorities. If we take your argument to another level, why does BMW sell both 6-Series coupes and 6-Series Grand Coupes (which have four doors)? The answer is that people want what they want.

Yeah and you won't be buying a Camaro when you want a Shelby. That was kind of my point. Just because they are putting down similar numbers doesn't mean you will cross shop them and doesn't make the Corvette any less than spectacular. Personally, on cars like this I see the figure-8 a much more telling story as they are already rolling and two switchbacks that would upset an insuperior chassis. Low end torque isn't used when you're getting after it. It's used in 1st gear and that's it. After that every shift is done at redline and the rpms only drop a couple grand and you never see that brute of torque below 4k. Maybe on a slow, tight corner...but it wouldn't be often that a motor like the LT1 while down on peak power would have an advantage over a peak motor on a race track, which is the only place these cars can truly be extracted anyway. Where are you getting $20,000 from? You're comaring a base SS, correct? $37,XXX So a base GT350 is $47,XXX. You cannot logically list a base price to an as tested price. Again, if you're so worried about a couple tenths and the price difference then the Stingray will never sell again. Because that starts around 55k and youre only getting marginally better performance than the 37k Camaro. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would you two please stop your pissing match in yet another thread so people can actually talk about the cars? Please, and thank you. I highlighted the 20 grand difference because that is the price difference between the two cars. So, that means that as optioned a mid-level Shelby is life and death to beat a base SS. And since the video discusses the Shelby's Magnetic Ride I'm guessing the Track Pack is the option pack it has. Now. Let that sink in. You could trim the price difference down by seven grand by removing some of the Shelby's handling chops. And you could remove another two or three by giving the Camaro Magnetic Ride. But as a Ford fan, do you really want to go down that road? It may be enough to tip the balance to the SS in most, if not all, categories.

Astonishing. It wasn't just one engine. Their entire diesel program was predicated on cheating. And it was allowed to go into Audis and Porsches!

I don't know what else there is to say, really. The facts are what they are: it now takes a Shelby Mustang to go toe to toe with a Camaro SS. The reactions to that reality? Understandable but misguided. They should be blaming Ford for talking all kinds of crap while not actually doing anything about it.

Stop being silly. You buy a Corvette because YOU WANT A CORVETTE. You buy a Camaro because YOU WANT A CAMARO. It's that simple. One is built to eat Ferraris, one is built to eat M4s. Now, the Camaro numbers vs. Mustang numbers... these are direct competitors. And yes, strictly speaking the skid pad and figure eight aren't a track. But once again... You can see a lot just by looking. The Mustang's quarter mile is the same elapsed time with a tiny edge in speed. The figure eight is the same deal. What this indicates to me is that the Mustang's mass and low-end torque deficit do it no favors. Also it may be hurting its transition reactions from straights to corners. But enough with the hair splitting: the twenty grand difference should be the starting point for any conversation about these two cars' merits, not a tenth here and a fraction of a g there.