El Kabong

And as I said: if you consider winning the loyalty of Hertz to be a major priority, then that's ok. No doubt they will go with the fleet of the cheapest old buckets a minimum of dollars can buy. However, for the purposes of his thread the only relevant numbers are the performance ones. And by that measure, Ford is getting checkmated pretty badly right now.

Well, this is the second big attack in France recently (remember Charlie Hebdo?). The president of France has promised retaliation. The only thing that might keep the whole thing from becoming a complete bloodbath is that ISIS has claimed responsibility, so they don't have to play whack-a-mole with every single radical Islamic organization out there. But, yeah... patience and tolerance have to be getting pretty frayed in France right now.

So, once again, it seems an appropriate time to reiterate that no amount of distraction, PR, or other shenanigans will change the numbers. And the numbers all break the Camaro's way.

What I am saying is that when the field consisted of one car, it was stagnant. Now that the field consists of two (or three, depending on how you define it) cars, the same car that was stagnant when it was alone is lagging now. That is what I am saying. You can say that it is better than it was a decade ago but who cares if there is precious little to prove it is better than it's current conpetition was five years ago? The reality is that product-wise, the S550 Mustang is a full generation behind its major competitor. No amount of spin or PR or trolling or bitching can change that reality one iota. It simply is what it is. If you want to play the sales/profit card, go for it. I have no issues with you or anyone else doing so. I get that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'm sure that Ford's marketing and trim level strategy is going to make them money. But let's not kid ourselves about what the better car is. And let's not kid ourselves about GM not having a plan to ensure that better car makes money on the terms they have set out. As I have noted already, it surely matters less to GM than Ford about fleet sales when GM knows it sells a variant of the Camaro's bones for nearly 100 grand. Hey, if you don't mind having a car that has a bit more room, a bit less exhaust note, and a fair bit less go, that's perfectly fine. It takes all kinds to make a world. But don't try and use that preference to explain away why the performance discrepancy exists. It exists because GM is just that good, just that determined, and just that well-equipped.

I don't mind. Really, I don't. As long as the personal attacks are dealt with I can deal with dishing out numbers and the odd weirdo PMing me.

Uh... nope. The current Mustang GT PP, as has been pointed out by MT previously, is roughly the match for a previous-gen 1LE Camaro. So in reality, only one of these cars is leaps and bounds ahead. The GT350R perfectly encapsulates Ford's dilemma in this segment right now: in order to be a noteworthy performer they have to do some pretty aggressive upgrades, which means they have to price it higher. Let's not forget that the car's R&T win is the S550's first comparo win against contemporary equipment, as opposed to a lame-duck model. And it took the 70-grand version to pull it off. The cooking models are quickly getting the cold shoulder from the mags as they begin to drive the Alpha Camaro and discover what a special car it is, even in ordinary form. It's a nice win. But it's also a solitary one.

They turbocharged it. For Honda, that's a radical step. "Torque kicked in yo."

See? If you can cough up compelling numbers, the weaker arguments instantly go away. And after looking at last year's winner the lack of styling innovation may not be an insurmountable thing. After all, secondhand reports on social media aren't always good sources to go on. One way or another, it'll be an interesting reveal on Monday. And one way or another, they gushed over this car

It ain't gonna end well, one way or the other.

Those numbers tho: CURB WEIGHT (F/R DIST): 3,672 lb (54/46%) ACCELERATION, 0-60 MPH: 4.0 sec QUARTER MILE: 12.4 [email protected] mph BRAKING, 60-0 MPH: 104 ft LATERAL ACCELERATION: 1.00 g (avg) MT FIGURE EIGHT: [email protected] (avg) I mean, stats like those from a regular-production Camaro... and at a price well under forty grand. That's a tough combo to top, fer sure.

Yes. It's called "citing my own article." So sensitive

Vive la France.

...I mean, they just pulled no punches about it either: "we liked the Mustang-beating Camaro SS, too. 'World-class sports car performance and dynamics,' Angus MacKenzie said of the Camaro SS. Jason Cammisa agreed. 'I am absolutely in love with this car’s limit handling!'" Sad sad sad for Mustang fans I reckon

Ah well. If that's true, I guess we'll just have to settle for it beating Mustangs. After all, if you read the article I cited that's how MT describes it :D

If it comes down to the Civic, Miata, and Camaro I think there's a real chance the Camaro's performance leap gives it the trophy. But we shall see.

The last part of your post pretty much echoes what I was saying during the Takata mess: Wal-Mart nation gets what Wal-Mart nation deserves.

Trust me on this: build quality varies quite a bit from country of origin to country of origin. Even within a single company.

Pretty sure it's Ingersoll, but I'd be thrilled to be wrong on that.

Oh. Must be a Canada thing then

If the build quality is there then I guess you have to do it. But it is a bit troubling to see the last bit of manufacturing that North America has a decent grip on begin to slip away.

No worries man. Contrary to the image certain folks have been trying to pin on me I'm as rational as the next guy. Possibly moreso If the styling turns out to be the dealbreaker for this car then it is what it is. The complaint from MT seems to be that it isn't evolutionary enough. Now, I get that that's one of the main criteria for COTY. But I'm also unclear on how they could evolve it further. What, use a periscope to drive the thing?

I'm not sure how Motor Trend releases COTY winners online anymore. But if their link is anything to go by, only a split decision on the styling keeps it from being the perfect ponycar: http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-camaro-2016-motor-trend-car-of-the-year-finalist/

If have preferred to see the CT6 be more like a CT8. But they got the price aggressive enough to fend off the Koreans in this case.

I was also thinking Jag, actually. Maserati too. Both outfits are pretty wobbly, they probably wish they had a bit more breathing room after this announcement.

Some of that in play, I guess. But it's like I was saying about the Caddy CT6 a while back: if you have a world-class foundation to start with the end result is probably versatile enough to do whatever. In this case, I'm sure it's still quite capable of doing donuts on your neighbour's lawn while the hair on the back of your head becomes suspiciously longer than it is on the front.