El Kabong

Hey, if you want to root for a car that's only able to match a car that costs twenty grand less, you go right ahead. I'll just stick with the cold hard facts.

Nonsense. The Mustang is no more a global car than the Camaro is. Just because Ford sells a few thousand RHD versions we are supposed to ignore the face that the Camaro probably sells an (equally paltry) numbers of RHD Camaros on the Continent? And yes: Mopar's RWD options are better than Ford's. MOPAR, like GM, was smart in making sure that is has multiple brand lines on a common chassis. Dearborn, on the other hand, essentially has multiple platforms for a single car line! It's not me being a fanboy. It's Ford being stupid.

So, what I would say here is: if the GT350 needs to be completely different forward of the A-pillar (engine, suspension, and all), and on a brand-new chassis no less... Why not design it that way across the board and keep it from becoming nearly 60 grand? Because that's the strategy GM went with on the Camaro, and now they're talking up the possibility of a forty-grand Camaro that will do the same thing as that Shelby! We can discuss this eight ways till Sunday. But the reality is that GM is just much better at leveraging its assets in this segment than Ford, because Ford has far fewer assets to leverage for RWD applications anymore. Even Mopar has better RWD options than Ford.

It would be a nice powertrain upgrade for a Prius.

I really don't expect to read about any more Shelbys going for over sticker. It's just not the kind of car that justifies such things.

Yes, it has that specialty V8... which helps drive the price of the car unacceptably high. We have been through this already. You can match the Camaro's price points or its performance. But not both. Another specialty V8 will not alleviate the problem, unless it produces about 700hp and can come in at, say, 65 grand. I am deeply skeptical. I believe that globally Mustang gains somewhere in the four-figure range over and above NA sales. Which is not that good really. GM's Alpha platform moves more units, and at much higher price points. This is the kind of thing that can happen when your company's product strategy includes taking RWD seriously. Ford's didn't.

If Ford was showing any real mileage improvement with their engines it would be a different story, maybe. But I suspect that going down the TT engine path was more a matter of One Ford having little room for engines with more than six cylinders-not FWD-friendly. Problem is, ponycars and pickups are all about the eights. And as long as at least one automaker does right by the segment they will probably reap the rewards. Mullaly's decisions while he was the big boss at Ford will probably mean a steady erosion of sales in these segments. The fact that GM is fully focused and engaged in these segments will accelerate the process.

If they go down that road it's the cylinder count that'll do them in. We may already be seeing some level of TTV6 skepticism based on their truck sales versus GM.

I'm pretty sure that Ford will have a GT500-type car coming. The big question will be how many cylinders it will have. If Ford decides to take the powertrain-saving thing to the extreme then the best way for them to avoid the cost issues they have with the GT350 is to use an EcoBoost V6. The only other vehicle they have that could theoretically use that power is the F-150 and guess what kind of engine the new Raptor is going to have?

They're being pretty coy on the specifics right now, and I don't know if it'll be a 7.0L version of the LT... but I'm guessing they'll do something along those lines. Maybe a C7.R motor variant?

Its all well and good to say that the Shelby's engine note is worth 10 grand all by itself. The problem is that you potentially still have another ten grand to make up. Lest we forget, the C/D Shelby rang in at nearly 60 grand. It's entirely possible that Ford sales guys will find folks who will belly up and pay over sticker for a car whose main selling points are a Honda-esque redline and being named after a dead guy. But the smart money is on the Bowtie. It's a survival-of-the-fittest game, and right now Al Oppenheiser has the Darwin meter turned up to 11.

GMI interviewed Oppenheiser. He swore that they were trying to get the V8 1LE to come in under forty grand. If you figure that the 1SS starts at 37 and the Recaros can kinda be regarded as an upgrade as opposed to a standalone deal... But the thing is: the Camaro isn't underpriced. The Shelby is overpriced. Part of this is just performance metrics and bang for the buck: the Shelby isn't all that quick for all that horsepower. Additionally, the Track Pack goodies are, again, optional. But beyond that, the Camaro must give some consideration to the Corvette and Cadillac ATS-V in the performance pecking order. It can't to TOO high in price, or it will cease to exist.

Oppenheiser claims the new 1LE is three seconds a lap faster than the old one. Unfortunately, he doesn't specify what track he's referring to (Milford?). If it's on any track shorter than Virginia International though, that's an enormous improvement. It also makes me wonder what an LT4 version could do.

Check it out here: http://www.businessinsider.com/three-gorges-dam-south-to-north-water-diverson-project-china-2010-7

Things have wandered far afield from the OP, which deals with Tesla trying to fight off the Chevy Bolt. All I'm going to say about "climate change" is that without the internal combustion engine and plastics, as well as their ancillary benefits, the global population would not currently sit at nearly 8 billion people. In turn, these people have a quality of life determined more by the quality of their government than any other outside force. And electricity generation always has an environmental impact. Three Gorges dam has actually affected the rotation period of the earth. There is no free lunch.

Al Oppenheiser finally states what many of us have suspected: a Camaro SS variant will suffice to take down a Shelby Mustang. "During our time to chat with Al Oppenheiser, chief Camaro engineer, we got right down to business and asked what everyone wants to know: will the 2017 Camaro SS 1LE outperform the Shelby GT350? "'That’s obviously our intent. I have the answer, but I’ll let the rest of you decide how we did. Our goal is to up the game with our competitor, just like they upped the game with the GT350. Everyone had to expect we would punch back. I will tell you this car is three seconds faster than the previous 1LE. Your readers can go out and make their own conclusions,' Oppenheiser stated in utmost confidence. "'We’re plowing new ground with the V6 1LE, and for the SS 1LE, our initial target benchmark was the fifth-generation 1LE. But, obviously, Ford came out with their GT350 and we changed our sights. We’re not worried.'" More at the link: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/02/2017-chevrolet-camaro-1le-expected-to-outperform-the-shelby-gt350/

They would be insane to mess with the formula. It is the ideal combination of luxurious and American. That is exactly what they're looking for.

The thing about the Hellcat is that it's got 700+hp in a (somewhat) affordable package, and it's able to use it really well in a straight line. Even around a typical track it's still about as good as an STi (based on a vid MT did a while back). So yeah, right now I can see where someone could say that. But if GM decides to put a 640hp LT4 in the Camaro then things could get shaken up again.

In any event, I believe that this is going to be a much more suitable comparo contestant. I still like the standard SS's chances, but the 1LE appears to have the goods to do the deed: http://m.caranddriver.com/news/2017-chevrolet-camaro-1le-v-6-v-8-photos-and-info-news

Yeah, it's going to be a crazy performer. I read one of the writeups on it where they figure the starting price for the smallblock one will be about 42 grand and the V6 will be about 32. I'd buy the V8 one for the rims and tires alone. It'll be fun to see what it does in comparos. Asymmetrical warfare and all that.

Sorry man. But it's not just me, or my fixation on one or two things. Don't believe me? Consider: -Screw straight line speed. The SS also brakes better and goes around a skid pad roughly as good as the Shelby. Starting at 37 large and 3,650 pounds! -R&T gave the GT350 their best drivers car award, then the guy who wrote up their initial Camaro drive said they may have been premature in doing that. -Your belief that the 1LE will outdo a Z06 is absurd. Perhaps you meant Z51. But again, it goes to the crux of their test: nobody is seriously going to cross-shop a Corvette with a pony car-any pony car. They exist for different clientele. -Price is definitely a factor. When you sit across from the sales guy and he slides that offer sheet across to you, you WILL clear your throat. Trust me. -The only objective thinking that justifies the Shelby's price is if the buyer regards it as an investment. But anyone who buys a Shelby as an investment is daft. Ford is going to build as many as it can, and if the residuals of the old GT500 are anything to go by then they'd be as well off buying a Zeta ZL1 (in Canada at least-I checked out a Black Book a while back). Therefore, it comes down to what I said a long time ago about this car: you really, REALLY gotta love this engine in order to buy this car. Because that redline is all it has that's really distinctive. Also (for those who read the article), it was interesting to note the NVH issues C/D observed. All objective, man. And yes, still a generation behind. That's not me being some kind of whatever you think it is I am. That's just me looking at the facts and wondering "where's the beef?"

Sorry to the haters... but the reason for the article was quite simple: they wanted to give the GT350 some props before the Camaro 1LE arrived. And the only way to do that was to give it a touchy-feely victory over a car that outran it but cost 15 grand more. Particularly amusing were C/D's gripes about the Corvette having one gear too many and steering that (aside from being a three year-old setup now) wasn't as nice as the Mustang's. Well... if that's all you could whine about, just relax, because the Camaro has both of those covered, at a starting price roughly TWENTY GRAND LOWER. That's the problem with being a generation behind the competition: you either take your lumps at the track, or you take them at the salesman's desk. But sure 'nuff you're gonna take them.

I read this article weeks ago in my subscription copy. It's just clickbait.

The trends are really strange too. A few years ago it was all about the matching numbers. These days if your old ride doesn't have an Art Morrison chassis and a crate motor you're outta luck.

10-0 Broncos so far. Didn't see that coming.