Suaviloquent

The proportions of this King Cab just look soooo off. I just cannot get past how bulky the front end looks...

The Platinum interior looks very nice. Almost too nice. I hope that means the Navigator gets Black Label interior quality standard, with the real Black Label versions getting leather EVERYWHERE, sheeps wool carpets, thick Alcantara mircosuede on ALL pillars, padded 3rd row pamper's diapers.... Yeah, the side profile reminds me of GM, but, honestly, if it can be considered as a 4th GM 2XXX, but with an engine that is more in line with the 6.2 in terms of capability, with a price that is between the Tahoe and the GMC Denali..., with some Explorer and F150 DNA mashup... I dunno, it seems like a pretty nice utility. And you do get the independant rear suspension folks, and a lower cargo load floor. I think, people buying this kind of vehicle...like really needing that kind of capability and capacity for people, with the ruggedness, now styling isn't much of choice. You get Ford variant of big land train, or GM variant. The choice is simply what kind of powertrain, and what kind of suspension setup you like. Capability will be pretty close still, and from there, I dunno about FE, maybe this will be better than the Tahoe, but by only like 1 mpg combined I think.

Double crow eating FER ME. CAN I HAVE FRIES W/ THAT?

I would not say Sergio is stupid. Cause, the way the company has set FCA US LLC, it's pretty evident from the start who were the have's and the have nots. And killing off cars that don't make money for the company, but just to try to fill huge product holes cannot work. The reason why the 200 ended up almost a class size smaller was because Chyrlser itself had no small sedan. And the Dodge Dart was dimensionally larger than its peers because the Avenger wasn't going to be Avenged by another product... It's happened before, everyone knew that FCA got a MAJOR WIN by scoring a bankrupt Chyrsler, because they HAD product in the pipeline, just NO money to fulfill those plans. I suspect that the cars might have even been finally, very competitive. But Fiat came in, saw the cash cows, developed Jeep enough to sell to more markets with smaller displacement engines, and is riding the RAM and LX cars for as long as preposteriously possible. I think the problem with Alfa, is that locking up Ferrari and Maserati engineers to make a much less expensive product....these guys are used to having lots of wiggle room, because cost isn't an issue when it can easily be transferred to the customer, with Ferrari. I think the plan for Alfa was too ambitious, it takes a long time to make the very best chassis from scratch....and then to make it modular and allow it to underpin so many vehicles.... For example, Cadillac's Alpha (heh, Alfa....Alpha) anyways, that platform cannot be used for CUV's, it was designed for sport sedans in mind first, and it would not be worth it to re-engineer it. As well, performance crossovers, big speed is good enough. I can't imagine a Mercedes-Mommymobile-AMG GLE63 being used on a track....ever....unless for people being very frivolous and of poor taste. And that's the last of me being off topic. This is a great idea. Take an already familiar with engine, put it into a product where it fits, and you know exactly what needs to be done. I suspect the development cost was very little, the biggest expense would have been the new fascia, not much more. So....I just, alright, I know that the price will be good, and that the truck itself, for being a few years old now, it has held up very well. The ZF8HP, such a great tranny. But how much longer till the SRT becomes irrelevant? I think the issue with FCA, is that they had the wrong approach to bringing the Giorgio platform online. Even if they debuted a dumbed down version of it first, for the American FCA brands...they would have had a lot more volume, and just keeping the lights on helps so much. And the American FCA brands have wiggle room for rough edges, they're still much more well known than Alfa. Then, the refined, fully fleshed out and realized Alfa Giulia would come out....still right about now, maybe a year later....but it would also be a better car for it. They could price it more competitively. They could reduce costs by trimming what they later will find out now that isn't needed.

Even if Sergio goes, who the hell in the right mind would want to fill his post? No one. NO ONE WANTS to be anywhere near FIAT at all. The investors are STUCK. And this strategy of driving the rest of the products that if not making money, but keeps the lights on into oblivion... Well, if had to get rid of Chrysler....remember how there are rumours there will not be another 300, or that changing the name to Pacifica was also meant to be a fail-safe in case the van had to be shifted to Dodge... This has happened before in many places, not even auto industry. Reckless frivolity, which while it's nice to be able to cater to enthusiasts...it's an ever shrinking buyer pool, there's already so much saturation, and the people in that group only know at this point to buy $100k plus luxo/performance SUVs or the next size class up from the Durango from Amercian makes that are well equipped $60k plus and BOF. This is not an automotive white space. White space refers to a MAJOR WIN. Like you make a segment, you will it into existence and it EXPLODES. What will this do at all? Wouldn't someone wanting a 3-row GC SRT, want a 3-row GC SRT? And if going to the Durango SRT means more vehicle for less money and almost as good interior with the new update....

I'm sure things are not as bad as they seem though. But I've seen this kind of frivolity before. Even the idea of conflict within the company and its contractors or partners, should be a signal....I don't check FCA stock price, but... I think secretly....investors are going with Sergio. If I was stuck deep like this, this kind of frivolity to offload brands you do not want to keep....it might be a consideration. My first, and best instinct here is that Sergio wants all FCA US LCC brands to tank, and some domestic or foreign automaker to bail them out and take that responsibility off of Fiat's hands by buying them cheap. It's better at this point I think to sell the American brands that are not strong....like Chrylser or Dodge for cheap...than to keep them and fill their product starved lineup. He wants to offload the American brands, spend as little as possible for them, and probably try to make Fiat, just Fiat brands, the Italian ones, Alfa, Maserati....like the equivalent of Buick and GMC in terms of differentiation but fit in brand family, but same platforms and shared components. Ferrari then becomes their Cadillac. And Fiat brand continues to be the awful Fiat brand. I think remaking the Chrysler vans into Pacifica was a decent enough choice, but given that almost all of the fresh product after seems to be some kind of performance variant of an exisitng cars or trucks.... Jeep got a new Compass...but like, I don't understand any appeal for it other than the badge and getting the trailhawk. Every other crossover will do crossover things better, for probably a lower price too. Here is an example of branding.....for the availability of Trailhawk, every crossover that is FWD based from Jeep makes a lot of compromises, or uses the 2.4 Tigershark. The Grand Cherokee and Wrangler are untouchable, THEY ARE THE TRUE JEEP, and JEEP AT IT'S BEST. The rest of the Jeep's their trailhawk versions is like almost to me....like an off-road themed version of how Mercedes made an AMG for the CLA and GLA and Audi has the S3...SQ3 planned too....you see where I'm going? Yes, they are Jeeps and they sell. Capitalizing on brand value, it's just that easy. Build a brand, and whore it out! That's how it works, as much as no one seems to go after Jeep for doing so. But Jeep has a unique selling proposition. There's nothing like a Jeep, and even the compromised products still have enough Jeep quirks to be able to fit within the lineup. And THEY DID a very smart thing to have every Jeep model to have it's own character, own version of a malleable design. Because that's the same as how the Grand Cherokee and the Wrangler, are so different in appearance...and at some level, function. Even the Commander was not a LWB GC.... Anyways, yeah.

This thingamajigger kills the street cred of many supercars and hypercars. I mean, I love the Dodge Demon, but like, this car weighs a fair bit more, has 5 seats, and two storage compartments. And AWD. Also, EQUAL reliability to FCA. (Get what I mean by the last part? I am savage with that one ) If your mission is to destory the stoplight before the other driver can even react, this is the car to get.

I think the issue is not the objective measures of sales, but the subjective issue of branding, and it's value. Here, people are opinionated, and domestic makes are always undoubtedly now more and more being placed at the top of the food chain or in the hunt. But they're woefully behind when it comes to the kind of value that can sell prestige alone. Well, the new GT is nice, but it's only a 4-year run. Ford's main business is not the business of making a money-losing supercar, even if it won Le Mans. It's rather an investment into the brand which is intangible, no one can measure it, but it might have an effect. For example, EcoBoost engines might actually be considered as true alternative to higher displacement N/A engines. Because if a downsized blown motor can beat larger engines, at RACING....then it's proven it's worth to deliver performace, if executed right, in mainstream cars... No truck review has ever complained really that EB motors lack the grunt, and pushing them hard, well, you push any engine so hard, you will get terrible mileage....I'm not trying to make any real point here, I'm just providing some form of context to see how EB might have higher brand value... Ask most lay persons, they DO NOT GIVE A SINGLE FOCK (as in that will not deter any purchace consideration to Mercedes) that Mercedes builds cheaper cars or sells vans, or that their brand is also known for heavy trucks. They only have the majority of their exposure and visibility to the best that Mercedes makes, their cars that are C and above and SUVS/Crossovers GLC and above....

DFelt you might have gone a bit too far there bud. I agree with SMK here. Mass brand? Well, in the USA, well, yes, they sell more cheaper cars, but they absolutely destory everyone else in their very expensive cars. GM has distinct brands...but I find it ridicuous to belive people are that stupid. As in someone getting a Chevy or Ford, or Asian mainstream...they are not people who normally but Mercedes, and the GLA/CLA are not good values. They are brought here again, to as SMK said, compete with Acura, Audi, Lincoln, Buick.....also, but then you have a huge contradiction within that placement because of the AMG variants... Evne then, Mercedes is successful, very successful. So what if they have a wide product portfolio? Atleast they have what appears to be a lot of flexibility. They can expand into the upper range with S, and Maybach lines, and they can go lower, and they have done it, and gotten away with it. That's a true measure of a brand. Mercedes can get away with doing things....and again, how many people here can raise their hand and say they actually considered any German make for their next vehicle...but decided not to because of cars like the A3, CLA, X1? RIGHT, PROBABLY everyone here expect 1-2 persons in this thread, but don't count me out, I might want a German car one day... Ultimately, Cadillac does not have that top tier luxury or large performance line. Yes, V is very focused, and perhaps has a die-hard fanbase....but not really outside of America.... and with GM's product planning you end up with washed up products like the Buick Envision from a near-luxury brand like Buick, which is just merely competent, yet because it sells, it must be a truly a luxury revolution, right? And the GLA is again, merely competent....yet SMK himself has said enough that those vehicles are not meant to be a reinvention of luxury. No one has yet to actually make a small vehicle that is absurdly dripping with luxo, and it just would not make any sense. And it isn't to say brand snobbery is a truly bad thing. If it keeps the sales coming....I mean THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT CADILLAC AND LINCOLN WANT. They want a return to the glory days where they were in that position...It doesn't have to equate sales....but when the S-Class is itself in a league of one when it comes to overall status and prestige around that price point of $100,000 to $250,000.....you cannot imagine how jealous American makes are. They are so worried that a product like that will ultimately fail in the market. Because failed to compete, and they got pushed out.... Anyways, rant over....

I know the artists/composers but not off the top of my head for some but song names here instead: Eminence Front - also known as a perrenial GMC commercial favourite Sympathy for the Devil - Rolling Stones.... Gimme Shelter When the Levee breaks - Led Zepplin!!! Boooooorrrrnnnnn to be WYYYELLLLD BADDD TO THE BONE.....BA BA BA BAB ABA BABA BSBDKASBF SKDJFBV SKD BF BASSSSDDDDERDDRR DURR... George Thorogood .......

Hmmm, I find Trudeau to be a..... Ah, dammit don't want CSIS to know what I feel about him, can't let google find out, but I assure you I do not like Trudeau.

You know, this is the car that in many ways Toyota used to build the Camry as. I would say that the Passat is easily more solid built than the current gen Camry still on sale. I figure if you think you are getting a good deal (and with VW discounts right now, maybe yes), than this is one of the easiest midsize sedans to live with. great visbility, some semblance of driver involvement like the Accord, Fusion, Malibu, stellar visibility, epic rear-seat room, and available V6.... Also, strange, I find the minor inconvience a potential benefit....imagine you accidently press the button for the trunk release in close proximity but out of line of sight....any belongings might be subject to unwanted attention. But here the trunk stays closed, but unlocked.....I think any would be person wanting petty theft is like 50% (completely unscientific) less likely to approach your vehicle if the trunk looks closed, and the trunk release is actually something you have to search for the first time.

Oh, I DID NOT READ the part where it said THAT this is a "DREAM GARAGE". HAHA!!!

Hmm, see, the crossovers that Cadillac will not get for another year....basically the Envision and the new Terrain...are basically the level to expect the XT3 and then maybe XT1 to be interms of luxo. In that case, I would skip the damn Envision, pony up just a few grand more for the Cadillac XT5, plus get a V6....and also, just get the Terrain cause it'll be way better value than the XT1...And probably look better too... I think Cadillac not having a full portfolio is basically GM juggling very similar product gaps with brands that have different target audiences but have a similar coverage.

It's great that the Holdens are finally getting some love. Also, I think for a change, it's interesting that their cuv/suv offerings look like they came from completely different manufacturers. None of that "every vehicle is just a variation of the same sausage." Well, niche market, so the cost cutting way actually gives them variety. YES!

Why would they do 50 to 100, with increments of 10 kWH? I think it might be P for plug with the number being more actually about the kind of comparable gas engine to look at... So P6 would be like a equivalent of the T6 already available..., but really, who gives a hell? Why do electric vehicles need, at times.... dumb names that always have to signify "oh look here I am electric, my electrons will teleport you faster than your engines could ever chug lung cancer juice." So T8 v. P8.....I think battery capacity might increase but not increments of 10....that sounds arbritary, too many variants and wasteful. Unless you cannot get a P5 through 7 on the S90. Only P8 and up, being even higher than the T8...

Uh, so minority sales I guess style American vehicles, stifled by all the competing makes no matter what at any given turn, only possible because of some kind of government decree (executive orders)....sensible intentions, but lacking a complete solution.....But meets CAFE 2025, because of stupid MPG-E..... Damn, I guess a Ford Focus EV? Err, add the C-Max there. (Def that one, cos the ACA or Obamacare didn't live up to the hype, and that was even with Obama being sales man for that thing.... similar thing, not living up to original FE, used the existing rules to upsell the FE....). You asked Obama edition, and I will give you Obama vehicles.... I guess, er Cadillac ELR? Hmmm, 2012 Malibu EAssist... Lacrosse E-Assist.......HAHAHA I like this list, it was pretty simple for me. Everyone approves of hybrids right? Yup, that fer sure, so like, I WIN. I win this thread for being pure OBAMA.

OH.....DAMN THAT'S JUST, HAH, JUST DFELT, WTF, WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT? THAT'S LIKE TWO WEEKS OF FUNNY YOU JUST MADE RIGHT THERE.

2017 is the year we all become concious of mortality.... YAS!!! VERY GOOD, EXCELLENT!

Recent autoshows have really been meh for a while. But that's the way it's going to be. Extravagance is a luxury the industry really cannot afford anymore....

They probably got rid of the back seat, got rid of a lot of sound insulation, got rid of a spare, cf hood, perhaps cf wheels.... but 200 lbs.....damn. That really is a lot, even though it's such a large coupe.

Oh yes, that argument, fully agree. More revenue is always better for government, because like most entities, government has its own vested interests, one to remain in power, and two to maintain the authority to levie a tax. And what better way to do both, by leving a new tax. Problem is, yes, EVs are like nothing in terms of road wear. So really, anyone buying is someone who might just be indifferent to this new fee. There's dead set. $150 a year is nothing to the average Tesla owner. Even Bolt owners, most will be two car households, with either to Bolt primary but conventional auto as backup, or the Bolt as the city roundabout that you only charge once a month instead of twice a month... YEAH. ALSO, SORRY TO DERAIL, BUT YEAH, I know what it feels like to be fiscally responsible, heck my dad says I am an even worse scrooge than him. But, like when I do spend, I get the good stuff. My work boots are from Canada (government gave me a free grant, and I was allowed to use the full amount they gave me so, I said, why not plow some other taxpater's money back into Canada?)...and I bought a shit ton of made in America socks. Damn they are so much better, seriously, I didn't think it would be the case, but you learn that AFTER they are washed the second time, the American socks held up like new, the non domestic import socks I used to buy would wither and get all linty after the second time being washed.... Dammit, I did get out of school debt free, but it also meant I missed out so much keeping my head down and just going with it. At this point, being debt free, paying any other debt lump sum, and having an absurdly stupid credit limit for the emergency where that kind of expenditure might be neccessary is NICE . But it also came at a pretty heavy cost, and I still have to get around with dealing with that part.... OKEY, DERAIL NO MORE. Carry on

Oh yes, that argument, fully agree. More revenue is always better for government, because like most entities, government has its own vested interests, one to remain in power, and two to maintain the authority to levie a tax. And what better way to do both, by leving a new tax. Problem is, yes, EVs are like nothing in terms of road wear. So really, anyone buying is someone who might just be indifferent to this new fee. There's dead set. $150 a year is nothing to the average Tesla owner. Even Bolt owners, most will be two car households, with either to Bolt primary but conventional auto as backup, or the Bolt as the city roundabout that you only charge once a month instead of twice a month... YEAH.

Well, really the tax on EVs just needs to be the same tax per driven mile. Or a really intuitive, and hassle free way to deal with it is to keep a record of how many kilowatts the vehicle alone has consumed, say per year, and then levie a tax, the same as the yearly licence sticker renewal, or other fees. the problem is that using mpge as bar of efficiency is stupid to begin with, and mpg is the cornerstone of efficiency for gas vehicles, the big fat stupid number on the moroney that any driver can understand... And mpge, while intended to make understanding EV efficiency a topical issue revolving around comparing cars of all stripes....it is completely stupid. Most EVs have shown to be never able to achieve their mpge, or completely destroy that metric if the car is driven downhill more than uphill... But that has to change. Right now the operating costs of EVs are really too good. The gas tax is well hidden. There is no price at the pump without the taxes built into the price, at then there is the basic state tax, or the provincial and federal HST here in Ontario Canada. A tax on EVs seems like a backwards move, but right now EV's are only for those looking to adopt early, while the Tesla and Bolt (more rather the Bolt in terms of affordability) are tangible, thought out products, a tax being levied can be seen rather as a reduction of an incentive than an outright disincentive. You pay the tax at the pump every time, it's a disincentive, but the vehicle is sometimes the only way, a necessity for the commuter. The price elasticity of gas is weird, in the short run you cough up more dough, but in the long-run, and I would advocate SMART shoppers, do all the finance things like comparisons of gas costs given a certain price range, worst, best, most likely, and then also the discounting or accounting for inflation....as in a lot of stuff that is tedious....and car for the EV makes it another ballgame of its own. Yeah, if every auto vehicle or truck, anything that is powered on its own and has wheels is twice as efficient or more than the best MPG available in a petro only powered one or even hybrid, then the road building and maintenance funds are DOOMED.

No no no no no, dammit FCA, I have a day dream which had a sexy Quadriofoglio was a part of it, and you are going out of your way to cause trouble for yourselves... Being dramatic aside, it seems like the investigation has only begun....well, what's the worse that could actually happen?