surreal1272

And remember @smk4565, it has been YOU that has crowed on about the Cybertruck for the last three years, years that were promised a Cybertruck by Elon and his fans the following year, each year. You had ZERO issue with the possibility of quick production and even touted their ability to do so during those three years. Now you are on here making excuses about the repeated delays buy saying that this is "normal" (it is clearly not) and then throwing in some non-related BS about sales. FFS. That is what is wrong with people lately. Can't just admit their error and move the F on. Good luck with that (same goes to anyone here with the same level of stubbornness).

Like I said, endless excuses and that fact will never change. BTW, not one part of what I said about timelines had $h! to do with sales bar mover. aHad no jack squat to with whether Kia is better or not. This was about concept timelines and the FACT IS THAT THE CYBERTRUCK HAS BEEN SLOW TO DEVELOP and that is a FACT backed by Tesla's own CEO, not your pom pom waving fanboy OPINION. Get that yet or do you want to make up more reasons why you are wrong? Finally, those were just TWO examples of the many vehicles that have hit the floor quicker than the Cybertruck. You can add in literally dozens of others that have been quicker than it but hey, "sales, sales, sales" when you run out of excuses right?

So just make up any excuse to cover up the fact that he said production was originally supposed to start in 2021 when he announced it in 2019 (having been in "concept" concept before then). And that 4 years is a lie in this day and age and you know that. Kia's EV9 is going from concept to production in less than 3. The Mach-E was announced 2019 and was on sale the next year so just stop with the endless excuses when even Elon has confessed to the endless delays delaying the Cybertruck. Again, you ignore facts to make up excuses and feelings. And touting that dumb bulletproof video is just sheer ignorance and fanboy BS. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Notice they didn't shoot at that once unbreakable glass (that Elon broke in front of the world). Keep drinking that Kool-Aid though.

That's the problem here. You speak form "feelings" instead of facts. Here is more of the facts starting with this: "Economies of scale won't help bring down cost for a while. The CEO still thinks Tesla will eventually build 250,000 Cybertrucks a year, but said it won't reach that production rate until sometime in 2025 at the earliest." That is straight from your man's mouth. 2025 at the EARLIEST. Source: https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-deliveries-begin-november-elon-musk/ Point here is to just stop it with the feelings and cheerleading and try dealing in facts. The facts are right there above so try it on and see if it fits.

Good grief. Not those numbers. I’m talking about these mythical figures you have saying that AI based self driving will somehow be better despite the litany of evidence to the contrary (and, again, the fact that Elon can even get his current self driving systems right, nevermind this version 12 nonsense. And November 30th you say? Now is that full production date (it’s not btw) or the slow roll out date that everyone else not named SMK already knew? https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/elon-musk-says-dug-own-102158965.html And I quote… ”Musk said that he wanted to "temper expectations" for the electric truck's launch, which Tesla announced would be on November 30.”

And are you using Musk data to pull out these imaginary numbers about crashes and scenarios? Your trust is this is baffling given the buggy nature of the venture so far but hey, gotta keep on cheering for your new lord and master right? Is that the time horizon they are using for the Cybertruck?

Teslas biggest fan here ”The Cybertruck will sell like hotcakes and take pickup sales from the D3” ”The Cybertruck will make money for Tesla” Also the Cybertruck… https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/elon-musk-says-dug-own-102158965.html

Again, missing the total point while kissing Elon's ass and trusting a system that is even ready as a level 2 system, much less level 3 to be run by the same AI that Elon criticized a year ago just so he could peddle his own AI BS. Go ahead and trust THAT.

You mean this hot mess that is still in the experimental (i.e. buggy garbage) phase that almost got Elon killed? That AI based FSD nonsense? https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/28/23848882/elon-musk-tesla-fsd-v12-demo-red-light-zuckerberg-house You would have to be out of your ever loving mind to trust AI based FSD in ANY form! They haven't even worked out the kinks in their current self driving systems but you are sitting there trying to convince everyone here that this is the way to go and that only Tesla can pull this off (version 12 AI FSD)?

And there it is, that fanboy blinder logic. Keep thinking that non-sense is relevant in the EV world. At the same price, there is literally NOTHING that makes that EQB any more capable or "special" than the LARGER EV9, unless it's someone like yourself who fawns over labels instead of actual merits and substance. It's your right to feel this way. It's also others right to mock you for it when they see fanboy statements like the one above. And for the umpteenth time, the EV6 sales have been discussed and your assertions about it debunked. I will leave you with a snippet highlighting the debunking and why those sales dipped. Hint: it's not built here while the EV9 will be built in Georgia, knocking off $7500 from the EV9's $55K price tag. Still want to bitch about the price? "CNET says new requirements for the $7,500 U.S. EV tax credit took effect in April 2023. The 2023 Kia EV6 no longer qualifies for the federal tax credit when purchased by an individual, but a loophole allows Kia to offer the $7,500 savings as a “Lease Bonus.” BTW, the lease loophole only works in certain buyer scenarios. It is astounding how you always skip the obvious stuff to spout of whatever bull$h! you feel passes for a "fact" around here. You get told actual facts, time and time again, yet always repeat THE SAME debunked points. Why? Do you have a cognitive disorder that keeps you from remembering what was said, time after time? Or is it just this need to troll anything that doesn't have a precious tri-star emblem on its grill? Which is it because it sure as hell isn't ever based on anything factual about the other cars?

Better value than the smaller EQB and its equally paltry range, minimal HP (in lower trims) and a $54K starting price. Kia won't have a problem selling this at that price.

Tesla fans: "Tesla will sell 20 million cars by "X" year because the make the best EVs and have the best battery tech." Meanwhile at Tesla: https://www.yahoo.com/news/tesla-lands-hot-water-report-100000724.html

Your "point" was pointless as you have been told repeatedly, that it would never be sold outside of Japan (on top of being corrected over all your mistakes regarding the Century in the first damn place). Stop creating issues where none exist. FFS.

Yeah, because it's always a good business case to NOT make money on your product FFS. They don't have to sell high numbers or anywhere else other than Japan, which is how it is always been. They will not move this out of Japan nor change it's hand built nature (hence the only 30 a month and hand over fist money behind). Just stop the hypothetical BS. The article can speculate all it wants but that doesn't make it so. They have ZERO reason to change the current business model behind the Century lineup and if you actually read about their history and relevance in Japan, you would understand why it's that way and will most likely stay that way. Until then, save the speciation, the misinformation, and just otherwise outright wrong statements, like you have peddled on this thread. It's just embarrassing.

See my post about the TNGA platform and stop spreading bull$h!. You are trying to think of this in traditional platform terms without knowing a thing about Toyota's actual platforms. Just skip the fact that they only have to hand build 30 of these a month and make hand over fist money on them. Hell, the sedan has been running on a hybrid V8 system since 2018 but you clearly didn't know that when you made your statement about it still having a V12. Again, just half baked statements by you.

Just popping in to give SMK his daily dose of "being wrong" x2. One, The Century Sedan is still being sold along side the SUV. This is not a replacement. Two, it is using the TNGA platform, which is used in FWD, RWD, and AWD applications, from the Prius to the upcoming Land Cruiser. This is not "$170k for a FWD platform".

That can be said for literally every group of tech buyers out there, whether it’s Apple, Google, Microsoft, or any number of tech buyers out there. To assume it’s just Apple users that are like that is woefully ignorant on your part. I’ve done onsite tech work and shop work for Apple products and Windows and guess what? They are the same type of folks which is why they had me look at their stuff. Just asinine assumptions made by you David. Sorry but you put it on full display here. And I’m not speaking as just a computer person. I’m speaking as a person with years of experience with people who use all types of tech. Don’t try an conflate things here. What I am saying is common sense and you know it. Maybe it’s you that need to take yourself out of the computer talk if you don’t understand that.

And yet again, your bias is showing hard since I ALSO took the time to learn what I was using AND how to fix things when they go wrong and my Apple stuff is no exception. Your attempt to (yet again) lump in a particular group, in this case Apple users, through an obvious biased lens still reeks of condescension, which seems to be why you "laughed" at my last post in the first place. Point being, you clearly don't know as much as about certain users as you think and you seem to know even less about the work that can or cannot be done on their products but again, what does a 30+ year user (and fixer) of them know.

That's what my reaction was for because the iPhones I have had for years at a time, never gave me battery issues. My current 12 Pro Max is just about 3 years old with no problems whatsoever but then again, I am not a kid playing games and such for 16 hours a day, which is why your kids phone batteries tank after a few years. Here's the thing, I have a tech background too David and those battery issues for your kids would exist whether they were using iOS or Android for the same reasons mentioned above. I am going to skip the condescending nature of your post regarding Apple users and their lack of wanting to deal with maintenance or just being otherwise lazy BS. Newsflash. NO ONE WANTS TO DEAL WITH MAINTENANCE, whether it's a phone or a car. This is coming from someone with 30+ years on the Mac platform, 30 years on Windows, a few years on Linux, 13 years of iOS, and 2 years of Android (as I stare at my "newer" 4 year iMac and 18 year old Mac Pro G5 tower that still works as good as the day it came out in 2005). What the hell do I know though. And I'm done, for a while. Same but I guess everyone has "that" about $h! batteries on iPhones while I constantly sold batteries to Android users for their barely 1-2 year phones. Use what you want to use but don't condescend over it and belittle users but calling them lazy for about the dumbest damn reasons imaginable (obviously, that part was directed at you lol).

For the very last time @smk4565, ANY brand that has multiple FWD models is playing in THAT PART of the mainstream market and no amount of bar moving BS about ever changing ATPs changes that. You have been told this by multiple folks so stop acting like you don't know the truth here.

He fails to see that the ATP does not mean $h!. The bulk of Benz sales are from their models like the A class, CLA, GLC, GLA, etc, which DO compete against the mainstream models out there. This isn't "opinion". This is "fact". It's why Mercedes started selling lower priced models 20 years ago (C230 anyone?). High line priced cars alone would not keep them in business and SMK knows that but that fanboy logic won't let him admit it. He fails, as well, to see the bigger point and that is the Tesla DOES compete in the luxury market as well as the mainstream, despite his BS claims to the contrary.

@smk4565 You are just too predictable. Now, go ahead and deflect from this other comparison (from yet another Benz dealer) involving Teslas best seller and the EQB. But hey, there not going after the luxury market right? https://www.sbmercedes.com/eqb-vs-tesla-model-y.htm Tesla is Mercedes. They compete in the luxury and mainstream market, end of discussion and no amount of your bar moving and fanboy nonsense changes that.

I'm just going to leave these right here for you to see how 100% full of $h! you are to say they don't compete in the luxury market. Courtesy of Two different Benz dealerships. Might want to tell them Tesla doesn't compete in the luxury market. The lesson here is stop repeating the same old BS you keep posting day in and day out. FFS.

That hasn't been what you have said whenever their sale figures came up so just drop that current excuse because I am bot playing the bar moving game with you. Point being, everyone is pulling that in one fashion or another because new inventories are up everywhere, as it has been pointed out to you MULTIPLE TIMES here. Stop posting like you have completely forgotten those facts. And this is why I don't post much here anymore. The wash, rinse, repeat bull$h! you post while ignoring everything else that runs counter to your BS.

Ho many times do people have to tell you why Hyundais numbers are the way they are right now? You've been told repeatedly here so I'm not going over that with you because clearly you just ignore $h! when it's convenient to you. Having said that... What's your favorite brands excuse for the $7500 bonus offer on select leased EQs? Maybe you should just sit this one out for once SMK.