surreal1272

@smk4565--I am not going to keep going in circles with you but here are the facts. YES, they are late. They decided to put out not one, but TWO EV sedans out before even mentioning the SUV that won't come until late this year. Meanwhile, Cadillac at least had the good sense to put out an EV SUV first before considering any sedans, being that they are lower marketshare rides. Remember when you constantly whined about GM and Cadillac specially not having enough SUVs? Remember saying EXACTLY that? Well, Cadillac has one EV SUV coming out next months while Benz will have ZERO by then and it will do it for HALF THE PRICE (est. price off the EQS SUV is pegged at $114K). Like I said, late to the game.

And again, the obvious bias is obvious. You act like the Germans, who are late to the game to begin with, are the only game in town to compete with Tesla. Just the dumbest of fanboy logic SMK.

Except the GLA is not Mercedes cheapest offering now is it? And just ignore the other facts about pricing and how it relates to Luxury anyway. It wouldn't suit your fanboy narrative. . Let me just repeat what I said above. "You’re not exactly making a convincing argument for Benz when you have said, in the past, that the other three brands compete more with each other than they do Benz. If those three are not upper tier luxury, as you claim, then what does that make SUVs like the GLA?" You could have saved the response had you actually read my correction about the model below. My core point stands. It will have the same BASE LEVEL INTERIOR as the EQS sedan so you are not, in fact, comparing all apples to all apples. And I quote: "The Mercedes EQS SUV will feature the MBUX Hyperscreen, an optional highly digital dashboard that debuted in the EQS."

The GLA MSRP is a whole $30 more than the Corsair and a whole $405 more than the XT4. The Lexus UX is the cheapie of the bunch. You’re not exactly making a convincing argument for Benz when you have said, in the past, that the other three brands compete more with each other than they do Benz. If those three are not upper tier luxury, as you claim, then what does that make SUVs like the GLA?

FFS. You had ZERO problems with MB doing that exact same tablet slab for years. Even the base EQS has a similar style except it has a vertical orientation instead of landscape. Again, this is why reasonable discussions cannot be had with rabid fans like yourself. Edit: Not EQS but the SUV that will have the same entry level interior. Point still stands.

I said I was staying away from this but I had to say this. Why don’t you show the EQS interior that most folks will end up buying because of price? I know why you didn’t. Everyone else knows why you didn’t. However, why didn’t you? Guess it’s tough to find it on Benz’s page because they default to the higher priced optioned interior like the one above. FFS, present ALL OF THE FACTS before touting the highest trim interior that does nothing to change that hideous excuse of an exterior from the “best or nothing”. Nothing. I choose nothing.

Why go back and forth with him? Sales only matter when Benz comes out on top but mention things like the Escalade outselling the GLS and it’s a totally different story. Just ridiculous at this point. We all know he is only going to move the damn goalposts when it suits him like Benz pays him by the word. What he failing to grasp is that Benz is moving to EVs like everyone else the thus far their sedans are half baked offerings at best. I only bring that up because this thread is about Tesla and their EV competition, which at this point is not coming from Germany, end of story. So it’s not every publication, like you claimed earlier. Again, easily disproven lies leading to yet more bar moving. This is old.

Umm, it is for a VOLUME brand and that is exactly what your favorite brand has become over the last twenty years. Keep deflecting though.

If you are just gong to blatantly lie through those teeth of yours, then make sure its not such an easily disproven lie, as ccap just showed you. Good grief.

In demand collectibles don’t get driven on the daily like “normal” cars which was his core point. Sure, maybe it doesn’t lose half its value but if you drive that classic car 12-15K a year, it will work that way sooner than you think. Collectible cars, overall, only increase in value because they become garage queens, which was another core point of his. Cherry picking a made up number doesn’t change either of those points.

Let me clarify something here. My remark about the Leaf was in regards to sub-$30K EVs and the Leaf in question is the one with only 150 miles of range, which is unacceptable at any price range. No one wants that except for certain folks in California lol. The 226 mile model starts north of $30K. The more you know.

It should be noted that for all this talk about EVs and pricing and there not being one cheaper than $30K (save for the Leaf that no one wants), the lowest price ICE car/SUV from GM will be $21,400 (base model price, at that) after this year since the Spark and Trax are going bye bye. Ford's cheapest will be $25,500 for a gas only car or truck after the EcoSport goes bye bye this year. Only the hybrid model Maverick will be the cheapest at $19,995.

Close? It passed "close" two years ago when the folks who denied COVID in the first place, made it political.

Yeah, that would the result of fast yet half asleep typing and autocorrect getting drunk together lol.

Ummm, maybe you didn't see the "apples to apples" error there lol. I would sure as hell hope that an SUV Mach-E has more space than a two door pony car Mustang that happens to share the same first name. They literally have noticing else in common unlike the new Equinox.

This too. I have stated here before that the only real issue with direct sales is with dealership lobby friendly states (like Michigan) to prohibit (thorough existing laws) or suggesting further protections against direct sale car companies. They have fought tooth and nail against the model for decades. The EV demand for it is only the most recent battle line we see here now. If there is a failure of companies due to direct sale, then a lot of that blame should be shared by the various supposed pro "free market" governments who fought against the direct sales model their respective states. However, the ones Balth mentioned (Save for Rivian since they are now attempting said model in the real world) never even got to try out said model for reasons NOT related to direct sales. "Simplicity" did not kill them.

Yet none of what you said explains how direct sales (the simpler method) directly led to the downfall of the companies YOU listed. It also doesn’t change the fact that companies have come and gone since the beginning. EVs are no exception here but the implication that direct sales are the issue is highly suspect at best.

Before we take your absolute word for it, tell us how many IC car companies have gone under since the first Model T hit the roads. Now, show us which of these BE companies went under specifically because of the direct order model. Finally, consider that companies like Ford see in a benefit in that direct model as well or else they would not be going that route. Here's the "short" list of failed companies since the advent of the automobile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States

The Model S weigh 4800 lbs which is basically the same as this Toyota. Their weight savings is mostly in the cheap build with the single stamp method being just for starters.

I’m sure you will lol…until the next time. Fun fact: All EVs are heavy.

And here's what those numbers don't take into account regarding area like Phoenix metro. Six months out of the year, there are an additional 500K to 1 million "snowbirds" from all over staying in that area, creating even more strain on depleted water resources. It is baffling the level of growth mismanagement that has been allowed to happen there. Glad to be done with it.

Same.

Anytime Balth brings up the weight of any EV.

Exactly how many more excuses are you going to make here? Duh! EVs are heavier than their IC counterparts. This is a shock to literally no one but you apparently. And that bed and its "double wall" is in no way even remotely as heavy as the same back end of a Tahoe or an even closer comparo (since they are built on the same damn platform), a Suburban. A Suburban is closer to the length of your truck than a Tahoe and weighs more at 6,000lbs (minimum). Stop acting like these are equal here. FFS. You have 6.5ft of an empty space truck bed that you are attempting to compare to the rear of an SUV that has a roof, seats, airbags, insulation out the ass, etc. If you don't see how this DOES NOT COMPARE, then there is literally no hope for you here. The point here is that is ignorant to compare and SUVs weight to a damn pick up. It is just baffling that this has to explained to someone with such knowledge about cars over the decades. What's heavier @balthazar? An empty crate or the same size crate with several hundred lbs. in it (like seats, a roof, etc)? Apples to damn apples.

Your truck does not weigh less than 5000 lbs. and now you are conflating, deflecting, and moving the bar all at once. And big shock on any pick up being lighter. Sure, its longer but it also that has that big empty ass bed back there so again, not even close to apples to apples. Hell by your logic, a Tahoe is too heavy since its 30 inches shorter than your truck yet weighs up to 700 lbs more. Maybe you really should stop now since you apparently just love going out of your way to take any $h! on any EV without proper context (most of the time) or merit. Your initial comparo was dumb, end of story. The biggest problem with your "analysis" is that you think that EV weight is such a big damn deal, in the first place. Again, it has been discussed (many times)why this ins't the issue you constantly make it to be. Don't know if you keep ignoring that fact or if you just want to be deliberately confrontational at every EV turn, but there it is.