surreal1272

Except that you can't drive two of them at the same time!

coupla points Dumbass... U are are attempting to justify your lunacy by bringing up the AWD system in the $102,000 E63AMG as a good reason as to why the starting at $84,000 CTS-V is worthy of a "gasp?" So AWD is worth $18,000??? Can someone get me the troll patrol cause this MOFO is toast? Coupla more points: Benz has 577HP and torque to 590 lb-ft Cadillac has 640HP and torque to 630 lb-ft Benz has AWD yes, but also has to push around 4,674 lbs. The VSeries is at 4,145 lbs, a 529lb deficit. Considering the ATS-V is pulling in 12.0/122mph 1/4 and 3.7sec "0-who cares" times I'm thinking that the CTS-V is gonna beat the E63's numbers by a few ticks. I predict the CTS-V to pull a 3.2-3.3 0-60 without AWD, and a mid 11 @125, beating the E63's 11.6 sec @ 121.8 mph and this BS depreciation $h! U came up with is hilarious. A $73K 2014 CTS-V Coupe with almost all the trimmings is now worth, with 12K on the odo, $54K.. a drop of $19K. A $102K Benz E63AMG Swith almost all the trimmings is now worth, with 12K on the odo, $80,500.. a drop of $21,500 Research first Bitch "Research first Bitch" According to the Dyno Pull of the V.. how much is it cranking??? The V is SAE rated isn't it? so it should be spot on 650, right? Yes they are SAE but what would it be if it was on the same dyno pull as the AMG? And yes, that car is old school muscle in a shiny new package (his is a 2009 though I believe).

Ooh, a whole $1000. It's actually $83,995 so you are wrong again and there is WAY more than a $10K difference. You even had to add a bunch of frivolous options to the V to get it to the price you had. I added wheels, carbon fiber, Red Brembos, and sunroof and only came out to $95K. Optioning out those same accessories on the AMG pushed it over $120K! The only thing that separates the AMG is the AWD while still having 70HP less than the V. Again there is a $22K difference in base prices and the difference increases when you option them out. The V is not overpriced unless you also think the Z06 is overpriced (which its not). The one thing here I will give the AMG is that while on paper it is down 70hp.. it is a Merc. It is so underrated it isn't even funny. "The pertinent facts of the case are thus: The 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S Model is a monster. Under the bulging hood sits a nicely juiced-up version of the now-familiar M157 AMG engine. It's 5.5 liters in displacement, has two turbochargers fitted directly to the exhaust headers, and fills the combustion chamber with direct-injected gasoline at 2000 psi. Such a motor, especially in the new S Model tune, creates 577 hp and 590 lb-ft of torque. Of course those power numbers are GMFN, or German Minimum Fantasy Numbers. Meaning that we stuck this particular gray example on K&N Engineering's dynamometer and discovered that the M157 in this car churns out 541 wheel-horsepower and 508 lb-ft of torque. As the S Model E63 is AWD, and since you typically factor in a drivetrain loss for AWD cars of 20 percent (the transmission and drive shafts tend to suck a lot of power), the actual crank numbers on this car are much closer to 676 hp and 636 lb-ft of torque. That's enough to propel the 4511-pound sedan to 60 mph in a crazy quick 3.4 seconds and through the quarter mile in 11.6 seconds at 121.8 mph. That's one big hammer." Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1311_2014_mercedes_benz_e63_amg_s_vs_bmw_m5_competition_pack_comparison/#ixzz3eljx98UE Granted, I don't know wha tmotor is propelling the current E63, but I would assume they underrate it quite well like they always have. Them and BMW. Oh, I'm not knocking the performance. The owner of my shop has SL55 AMG that is a beast. You cannot keep those rear wheels planted and it "only" has 550HP. I pointed out the HP numbers because someone else remarked that HP numbers between the AMG and the V were "similar". A 70 HP difference does not make it similar IMO. Agreed that on paper 70hp is not similar, that's a big difference. But acording to the Dyno pull.. it makes more than the V. Have you gotten to drive that SL55??? I'm not a huge SL fan but I would still love to drive a roadster AMG. That's true but I have seen more than advertised HP out the Vette motors too. Oh and no I haven't driven that car. Rode with the boss in it and man it may be a high tech AMG but that back end throws loose like an old school muscle car. Almost too much motor for that car...almost

Ooh, a whole $1000. It's actually $83,995 so you are wrong again and there is WAY more than a $10K difference. You even had to add a bunch of frivolous options to the V to get it to the price you had. I added wheels, carbon fiber, Red Brembos, and sunroof and only came out to $95K. Optioning out those same accessories on the AMG pushed it over $120K! The only thing that separates the AMG is the AWD while still having 70HP less than the V. Again there is a $22K difference in base prices and the difference increases when you option them out. The V is not overpriced unless you also think the Z06 is overpriced (which its not). The one thing here I will give the AMG is that while on paper it is down 70hp.. it is a Merc. It is so underrated it isn't even funny. "The pertinent facts of the case are thus: The 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S Model is a monster. Under the bulging hood sits a nicely juiced-up version of the now-familiar M157 AMG engine. It's 5.5 liters in displacement, has two turbochargers fitted directly to the exhaust headers, and fills the combustion chamber with direct-injected gasoline at 2000 psi. Such a motor, especially in the new S Model tune, creates 577 hp and 590 lb-ft of torque. Of course those power numbers are GMFN, or German Minimum Fantasy Numbers. Meaning that we stuck this particular gray example on K&N Engineering's dynamometer and discovered that the M157 in this car churns out 541 wheel-horsepower and 508 lb-ft of torque. As the S Model E63 is AWD, and since you typically factor in a drivetrain loss for AWD cars of 20 percent (the transmission and drive shafts tend to suck a lot of power), the actual crank numbers on this car are much closer to 676 hp and 636 lb-ft of torque. That's enough to propel the 4511-pound sedan to 60 mph in a crazy quick 3.4 seconds and through the quarter mile in 11.6 seconds at 121.8 mph. That's one big hammer." Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1311_2014_mercedes_benz_e63_amg_s_vs_bmw_m5_competition_pack_comparison/#ixzz3eljx98UE Granted, I don't know wha tmotor is propelling the current E63, but I would assume they underrate it quite well like they always have. Them and BMW. Oh, I'm not knocking the performance. The owner of my shop has SL55 AMG that is a beast. You cannot keep those rear wheels planted and it "only" has 550HP. I pointed out the HP numbers because someone else remarked that HP numbers between the AMG and the V were "similar". A 70 HP difference does not make it similar IMO.

Again, ignoring certain facts. Fact #1, the CTS-V starts at $83K, undercutting that MB by $22K right off the bat. Fact #2, that MB when optioned to the nines (like you did with the V) is almost $30K more than the optioned out CTS-V. Fact #3, those model MBs drop like a rock as far as depreciation goes. So, to reiterate, you ignored the obvious facts to make a half baked "yikes" remark. Check your so called 'facts.' First of all, the V costs $84K. Second, the AMG comes fairly loaded, and with AWD, with very few options. And when you tally up the options, it is closer to a $10K difference. Hence my surprise. And yes, AMG and V both depreciate at an alarming rate, but the V far more so. And honestly, it's not as if Cadillac has NOT been in the news lately for over pricing their vehicles. Ooh, a whole $1000. It's actually $83,995 so you are wrong again and there is WAY more than a $10K difference. You even had to add a bunch of frivolous options to the V to get it to the price you had. I added wheels, carbon fiber, Red Brembos, and sunroof and only came out to $95K. Optioning out those same accessories on the AMG pushed it over $120K! The only thing that separates the AMG is the AWD while still having 70HP less than the V. Again there is a $22K difference in base prices and the difference increases when you option them out. The V is not overpriced unless you also think the Z06 is overpriced (which its not).

Oh and the V has 70 MORE horsepower, so that is not "similar" either/

Again, ignoring certain facts. Fact #1, the CTS-V starts at $83K, undercutting that MB by $22K right off the bat. Fact #2, that MB when optioned to the nines (like you did with the V) is almost $30K more than the optioned out CTS-V. Fact #3, those model MBs drop like a rock as far as depreciation goes. So, to reiterate, you ignored the obvious facts to make a half baked "yikes" remark.

An ignorant person could say that, sure, but YOU said it because you're Wings and you can't say anything about GM without a passive aggressive comment or thinly veiled criticism. It's why you don't get banned, yet still have -40 reputation points accrued in a month. really? REALLY???? All I did was make a simple shocked statement on price. All the rest is dust and nonsense for which you have contributed twice now. As for my negative points, a mod confirmed that nearly all of them are from one person who adores me so much that he makes sure you subtracts in every one of my posts, regardless. I will try to move on with my life though. Cue the victim commentary. We've heard it before, over and over again. You're so surprised when people get tired of your 1-dimensional contributions. If you want to "move on with your life" why did you follow us to C&G? The internet is VAST, and you show up within a week of us migrating from MT. Ahhh, the victim card is thrown, even though I started nothing. Anyway, back to product and price. I was surprised, and a title wave ensued, complete with accusations of ignorance. Did I miss anything in between? Nope Try the fact that while you go "yikes" you are completely ignoring the fact that it is substantially cheaper than the competition for one thing.

When you seem to be pretty ignorant as to why it costs that kind of cash, yes.

Are you implying that's overpriced? This thing is basically a 4-door Corvette Z06 (same engine, same 8-speed automatic, same electronic LSD, same magnetic ride, etc). When you add the CF package, it's damn near Z07-level track prepped. World class performance doesn't come cheap. Can't afford it? There's an ATS-V or CTS Vsport for $60-70k. Can't afford that either? Then you need to choose between luxury OR performance, because you can't have both. Could not have said it better myself. The price seems steep until you realize what it is and what it has while undercutting the competition by a substantial amount.

It got a bigger engine while losing 250lbs. It is fine as it is.

You completely missed the point. You slam Cadillac for four cylinders applications but pass out excuse after excuse for MB using four cylinders in even MORE models.

Because the CT8 is still a phantom that doesn't exist yet, and will probably arrive with a torqueless V6. Just like your over rated world best S series BS MB Garbage! Amazing how you will always move the goalpost and have a million excuses for MB but everyone else especially Cadillac you always have to state will fail. I will be the first one to both admit that I was wrong if your so called predictions come true but also will be the first to point out how your over rated German MB crap has become nothing more than an over rated Chevrolet product line with lower and lower quality as they whore out the MB luxury badge to increase profits for the few executives at the expense of quality. Already shows in most of MB products. Funny, there was a time when Mercedes shared a few things with a cheaper domestic brand. Maybe you've heard of them. I think they were called Chrysler. Daimler almost single handily destroyed Chrysler with their bean counting cheapness (Crossfire comes to mind here). Wonder if you gave them as much hell then as you are giving Cadillac now?

Because the CT8 is still a phantom that doesn't exist yet, and will probably arrive with a torqueless V6. That makes zero sense in relation to them spending so much time talking about unrelated trucks. You also know nothing about the powertrains for the CT8 but given that most of the competition also have torqueless motors, it makes your post even more irrelevant and trolling in nature.

You seem to be overlooking some key details about the SRX. It already HAS an active damping suspension, the interior goes up in quality with equipment levels, including real wood trim, and the kicker is that the SRX offers REAL torque-vectoring AWD with an eLSD. The black label Lincolns are nice, and so is the optional turbo V6, but don't sit here and tell us how inferior GM products are when you clearly didn't research them. If you compare the volume selling trim levels, you'll have equal 300+ hp engines, equally luxurious interiors, and trade back and forth on certain features. They also have a similar parking assist feature as well and someone seems to forget that the SRX is 6 years old so of course it will be lacking a certain newness compared to a 2016 MKX. It's redesign cannot come soon enough though because it just doesn't fit in with Cadillac's newer crop of cars.

How exactly did this go from the CT8 to pick ups?

Different size and class of car. People don't look past the price of a S class and then buy an E-Class because it is so much cheaper and the same would apply to Cadillac if they do it right.

They will not do that and it makes no sense to do that when Buick is killing the ever growing Asian market. That is just silliness.

You know what? I was going to say something to that extent. He makes a point but when you break it down, it all falls apart. Comparing today's Buick with yesterdays Mercury to try to make Ford equal to Buick, illustrates Ford problem. They tried to make Ford like Mercury, and Lincoln then and are trying to be Ford be like Lincoln now with their Platinum and titanium trims. Lincoln and Buick compete with each other more so that Lincoln and Cadillac. Given that, Ford is stepping on their own toes when they offer "Platinum" models that mirror most features of their supposed premium brand in Lincoln. Even after all that, he still hasn't shown how Ford's upper lines match, much less exceed, Buick's offerings. Has nothing to do with what is SUPPOSEDLY known industry wide. The only thing that seems to be known in the industry is that Ford still has a massive product overlap problem. Maybe that will change with the re-branding of Lincoln to a higher level offering but I've been hearing that for almost two decades now so I'll believe it when I see it.

No. That is not my only argument and I have given the reasons already, as have several other posters. Oh, and you should do the leg work since you are the one making the assertion that they do compete. The burden of that proof is clearly not on me. Funny how you just focus on me now when others like hyper6 have debunked you in great detail as well. Notice, as well, that no one is backing up your assertion.

It doesn't support it either because you still haven't shown one true example where Ford competes with Buick. Just mentioning the trim level models that you THINK competes with Buick doesn't make it so. Lots of people have opinions surreal. Why do you only focus on mine? Why do you only focus on me instead of my actual comment? You made the initial statement that Ford competes with Buick and all I asked (and several others asked btw, in case you missed that little fact) is for you to actually prove how they compete. Mentioning the trim levels of Ford does not equal to competing with Buick. It's that simple. you can disagree with my opinion that Ford premium trim on occasion bests Buick, but it is absolutely not even a point of contention that they compete. Again, no proof, just the opinion of a Ford employee with no facts to back it up. Thanks.

It doesn't support it either because you still haven't shown one true example where Ford competes with Buick. Just mentioning the trim level models that you THINK competes with Buick doesn't make it so. Lots of people have opinions surreal. Why do you only focus on mine? Why do you only focus on me instead of my actual comment? You made the initial statement that Ford competes with Buick and all I asked (and several others asked btw, in case you missed that little fact) is for you to actually prove how they compete. Mentioning the trim levels of Ford does not equal to competing with Buick. It's that simple.

It doesn't support it either because you still haven't shown one true example where Ford competes with Buick. Just mentioning the trim level models that you THINK competes with Buick doesn't make it so.

Pure opinion, once again, and you have completely missed the many excellent points that hyper6 made while you try to change the argument. Just mentioning Ford's Titanium and Platinum lines proves his point. Ford is trying to be Ford AND Lincoln with their Ford lineup while still selling Lincoln as a Lincoln. Under the definition of "redundancy" it says "see redundant" (credit Robin Williams for that last part). You brought up nothing. You stated that you THINK that Ford's upper trim levels are equal or better than Buick but provided no proof of such. The burden of that proof is on you, not me. There is no validity when there is no proof.

Pure opinion, once again, and you have completely missed the many excellent points that hyper6 made while you try to change the argument. Just mentioning Ford's Titanium and Platinum lines proves his point. Ford is trying to be Ford AND Lincoln with their Ford lineup while still selling Lincoln as a Lincoln. Under the definition of "redundancy" it says "see redundant" (credit Robin Williams for that last part). And you sir missed my ENTIRE point. And which point was that? The one where you claim that Ford's upper trim is better than Buick, even though you have no proof of that? I covered that. You, however, have provided nothing to counter hyper6's claims, that have been proven in the past btw because "Ford One" was the plan years ago, which did not involve Lincoln. Again, well said hyper6. Excellent points on all fronts.