surreal1272

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally. They won TruckTrend Truck of the year, not the MT truck of the year, which is what he is referring to here.

Since when do you dictate the topic of the thread? This thread is about the Camaro being a COTY finalist and debating the possibility that it takes the award. Yes there are other cars involved, but this thread is about the Camaro... it's right there in the title. Mustang II Ford Probe Ford tried to at least twice. GM killed off the F-body because it wasn't shared with any other cars while the Ford Fox Body was shared with multiple cars. In 2015, the situation is reversed. Camaro shares with some very premium brethren, while Mustang shares with nothing even though the automotive press has been practically begging For a mustang based Lincoln for years. There was a hint of it coming with the DEW98 platform, but alas it was not the case. Once the Camaro is fully online and selling, it is likely to have a higher profit margin per unit than Mustang for that reason alone. If it steals sales away from Mustang... then the concern should really be for Mustang with its lower per-unit profit margins.. .... but then there is always the Florida/California rental fleet market for Ford to turn to. Again, this^^! Could not have said it better myself without getting my post deleted for stating the obviousness of his dilemma. Well said Drew. The title of this thread goes as follows, " "Could. Go. All. The. Way: '16 Camaro COTY Finalist" It does not say "Car of the Year Finalists". Funny how you can't tell the difference. Ford almost killed it in the 90s for the Probe (Fact pointed out by Drew as well as the Mustang II reference) so crowing about this kind of silliness is just that, silliness.

So Jimmy Hoffa has been found (and it only took two days)?

Business as usual with you, poorly policing my every remark. Any thoughts at all on the subject matter? Any at all? Nothing was poorly policed except in that biased mind of yours. DO you actually have any thoughts on the matter? All I have seen is pure trolling here on your part while you complain about that very thing on your GT350R thread. BTW, I already stated that the Civic will probably win. Guess you missed that part, which is not surprising since all you do is focus on the negative. Yeah, and I also made many comments on the subject matter, of which you totally ignored too. You made not one comment before the one you posted about an hour ago, which was after I called you out. Nice try at ignoring the simple little fact though.

Now does this rule apply to all cars? The reason why I ask is that you were singing a completely different tune a few months ago in regards to the Expedition vs. Tahoe. Why do sales only matter when Ford is winning but they don't matter when they losing badly? It's a simple question. And again with you focusing only on the negative when it suits you. Per the same article: "We Like: Lightweight new platform, screaming engines." sales always matter. how do you not know this? especially in a segment that lives or dies by those sales. I am concerned that poor sales could take away what is Mustangs only real competition. And missing the point yet again. You dodged the sales statement at every turn while supporting the reviews that favored the Expedition over the Tahoe. It's the exact same thing that is going on here but you have reversed your stance. Head to head, thus far, the Camaro has outperformed the Mustang, but you lean on sales as your only argument. When it was the Expy and the Tahoe, you were oh so silent on the sales front. Wonder why?

topic please, which is camaro not quite winning an award....not F-150 winning pretty much everything. Except MT truck of the year, but hey, who's counting (other than you).

Now does this rule apply to all cars? The reason why I ask is that you were singing a completely different tune a few months ago in regards to the Expedition vs. Tahoe. Why do sales only matter when Ford is winning but they don't matter when they losing badly? It's a simple question. And again with you focusing only on the negative when it suits you. Per the same article: "We Like: Lightweight new platform, screaming engines."

"And the numbers all break the Camaro's way." As I said, not all numbers. Not by a Mustang Mile. And it just occurred to me, you soooo jelly about Shelby win......that's what this is all about. So obvious. okeedokeee, stepping out for the evening. tootles Says the person who was so jealous over the SS win against the GT the other week, that he had to start his own "Shelby coming in 2017" thread. Oh the irony of some of the stuff you say. But those sales Bong, those wonderful wonderful sales! It just makes you want to sing to the heavens! Business as usual with you, poorly policing my every remark. Any thoughts at all on the subject matter? Any at all? Nothing was poorly policed except in that biased mind of yours. DO you actually have any thoughts on the matter? All I have seen is pure trolling here on your part while you complain about that very thing on your GT350R thread. BTW, I already stated that the Civic will probably win. Guess you missed that part, which is not surprising since all you do is focus on the negative.

A "Mustang Mile" is the mile it still has to go after getting walked on by the Camaro at the track (I kid but hey, people were asking).

"And the numbers all break the Camaro's way." As I said, not all numbers. Not by a Mustang Mile. And it just occurred to me, you soooo jelly about Shelby win......that's what this is all about. So obvious. okeedokeee, stepping out for the evening. tootles Says the person who was so jealous over the SS win against the GT the other week, that he had to start his own "Shelby coming in 2017" thread. Oh the irony of some of the stuff you say. But those sales Bong, those wonderful wonderful sales! It just makes you want to sing to the heavens!

Brings up Mustang in Camaro finalist award when it appears camaro did not win. Noted. It is pulled directly from the article in question Jimmy Hoffa, so take it up with them if you have a issue. It will most likely go to the Civic IMO, even though I am not impressed with it in the least (design wise anyway). I believe the point was that he picked the article for a reason. Duh!!! And get your own joke material please, and stop stealing mine Soooo, you want the low rent trash talk over in the Mustang thread, as opposed to this one? Whatever you have to tell yourself. I can steal whatever "jokes" I want especially since my joke was obviously tongue in cheek in reference. Trust me. You're not funny, not one bit so don't flatter yourself there. Fact is that you got pissy with Bong over something that was said by someone else and that is all there is to it. It has not jack to with what article he decided to go with. The Camaro is in consideration for COTY and him quoting directly from that very article is 100% spot on and relevant. Don't like it? Well, no one forced you to come to this thread and troll on about it.

Brings up Mustang in Camaro finalist award when it appears camaro did not win. Noted. It is pulled directly from the article in question Jimmy Hoffa, so take it up with them if you have a issue. It will most likely go to the Civic IMO, even though I am not impressed with it in the least (design wise anyway).

While I loathe CUVs, you seem to miss the other points as to why they are in demand, The biggest being that they have way more space for cargo than your average sedan like the CTS or the 335i. You also have to consider the ride height advantage. I hear people talk about that a lot so it's obviously a huge factor into the success of CUVs.

I guess the 4 cylinder diesel in the Blu Tec E-Class doesn't count? What about the GLE Twin turbo 4 cylinder diesel?

Why are you comparing engine applications in sports cars to engine applications in luxury cars? That is simply a horrible comparison to make. I have never witnessed anyone moving the bar as much as you do.

The CT6 was never mentioned by anyone in the actual business as a stop gap car. That is just what you keep convincing yourself of even though it was made clear what the CT6 was aiming for and it's not the S-Class. That is for the CT8.

That's a very heavy handed and a stark insinuation. Everyone who has posted reservations has posted elsewhere where they like Cadillac. So I don't think you're going to get anywhere with making a comment like that. There are certain people, like SMK, who wouldn't even like Cadillac if it was just an S-Class with the star scraped off and a crest put in its place. They'd would still find something "wrong" with it... some "Most important thing" that makes the Cadillac inferior even if it is the same car. SMK's feet get awfully tired from running around moving the goal posts. Exactly. Why he thought anything else in my post, I have no idea and quite frankly, it's not my problem.

Can't compare cars with trucks, different buyers, different market niches. I assume the 4cyl version will be for fleet sales or black car/Uber drivers... They sell Silverados to fleets. I think a 2.0T making 270 hp and 295 lb-ft is adequate for a Silverado. 10 years ago a V8 Silverado was making that much power. Ford has multiple V6s in the F150, the 3.6 V6 would be a good standard engine in the Tahoe and Yukon, let's see GM up the fuel economy on those to help CAFE, rather than put thirsty V8s in all their trucks and build 1.5 liter Malibus and 2.0 liter Cadillacs. Please stop comparing pick up trucks to luxury cars.

E-class "ain't world class" compared to the S-class, either. But neither the E or the CT6 are going up against the s-class, are they. I and many others have been saying this for months. I do not know why some people are getting so hung on that point. The CT6 was never meant to be an S-Class competitor and the price reflects that. That is supposed to be reserved for the upcoming CT8. Now if that doesn't measure up to the Benz, then there is a legitimate gripe to be had. Until then, lets wait until this car has been unleashed upon the wild before we crucify it for being something it is clearly not.

That's very, vey heavy handed and a very stark insinuation. Everyone who has posted reservations has posted elsewhere where they like Cadillac. So I don't think you're going to get anywhere with making a comment like that. Not a stark insinuation at all. It's an observation I have made with several different sites where Cadillac is concerned. Again, simply observational and anything assumed to be more than that is just that, an assumption.

For some people, it seems Cadillac will never make them happy no matter what they do.

Thank you for the clarification Drew and I apologize for getting sucked into the BS but when one person just flat out lies about what they said, just because it is no longer there, it is baffling to the mind that the person can lie like that with a straight face. Back to the topic, I would love to take the GT350R for a spin around the Ford proving grounds here. It is about twenty miles from where I live and would be a great place to toss that car around, especially this time of the year (a perfect 78 degrees right now)

That it does. It would be only choice if I were to go with a Mustang, all black please.

I swear I have to hire someone on my payroll to check your posts for partial truths and misquotes surreal. Is that why you did not quote me? Here is my quote in it's FULL context......"And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro." No. I made my statement because what you say is pure opinion and you can only bring that up because of the performance shortcomings of the Mustang. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough for you the first. I can accept that my wording was a little off but I am telling that you need to watch this tact you have been taken with me. From the "Jar Jar" remarks to the general "eff you" (your words yesterday after getting called out on the GT500 thread), you absolutely need to start treading lightly here. So let me sum this up again, for you. Ford dropped the PERFORMANCE ball with this generation Mustang and there is nothing you can say about subjective little things like the looks of the Camaro, that is going to change that. I stated very clearly, not that you would notice as you police my every post, that the two vehicles are exceptional in performance with minimal difference between, before I expressed my opinion regarding looks, because it (camaro) looks to similar to previous gen, and I am hardly the first person to say that. So you are full of nonsense, once again, by telling me I can't have an opinion on looks. And you are putting words in my mouth. I said your opinion on looks is subjective. I never said you could not have one so please get over yourself and tread lightly here. Besides, one could easily say that you are policing me since you are trying to put words in my mouth and tell me what I should post and how BTW, I have a right to my opinion, just as much as you do. Difference is that I don't get all bent out of shape about a counter opinion like you clearly just did here. BTW, just because they did not do a wholesale redesign (never mind that it does not share one body panel with the previous model) does not mean that they dropped the ball. Understanding the context of what I said earlier, is the key to understanding.

Some here prove that, once again, that sales only matter when it suits one's agenda. Some perspective on that. Yes the Mustang is leading in sales this year. Again, that is no shock because it is a good car overall and it going against an outgoing model. The sales of outgoing the Camaro though, have been higher than the outgoing Mustang at this time last year (and the months prior. Example: 2015 Camaro sales for October 2015-5289 sold while the outgoing 2014 Mustang sold 4565 cars in October 2014. This pattern held true for the last few months prior as well (the Mustang sold just over 3158 cars in Sept. 2014 while the 2015 Camaro sold 5246 Point is that crowing about being a sales leader against an outgoing model is not telling the whole story. Comparing outgoing models is a more accurate reflection. Now when the 2016 Camaro hits full production stride, then the sales argument will really be on. As it is now, it's just silly to compare the two but some folks have to crow about something I guess. Nice edit.