surreal1272

A correction is needed. Lincoln - Down 2.4% (7,918 Vehicles Sold This Month, 303,221 Vehicles Sold So Far This Year) That should be more like around 90,000 sold this year (90,367 to be exact) or else Lincoln suffered the largest month over sales drop in the history of sales drops.

Well their goal, like everyone else's, is to increase market share right? Increased sales lead to increased market share (doesn't always work out like that, but that is the goal). I think that is all the article was implying. Everyone wants to gain market share, but when you're already as big in the US as Ford, GM, and Toyota, there will only be small movements in either direction. Companies with smaller sales numbers simply have an easier time making bigger jumps (Subaru) because they cover fewer segments. Oh, I agree with you on that Drew, but increased sales are always the goal and if it increases their market share, then it's even better for said company's image and future PR and marketing.

That doesn't mean that wasn't highly promoted. It just means that you feel that it wasn't, nothing less nothing more. This article covers the programs end in a little more detail. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2015/11/30/friends-neighbors/76559532/

Well their goal, like everyone else's, is to increase market share right? Increased sales lead to increased market share (doesn't always work out like that, but that is the goal). I think that is all the article was implying.

Except, unlike Toyota, this was not touted as an end of year sale and was on TV all the time. There was hardly a televised NFL game that did not show that spot over and over again. Per the article though, Ford is just changing it to a "Holiday Sales Event", much like everyone else and that makes a lot more sense. It is clear that the Friends and Neighbors campaign did not give them the results they wanted or they would still be running it as such. Per a dealer spokesman, “Obviously their pulling it means it’s disappointed them,” said Jeff Carlson, the owner of Glenwood Springs Ford in western Colorado. “We go by what the consumer says, and the consumer voted not to embrace this.” And it was highly promoted. Per the article, "Ford had been heavily promoting “Friends & Neighbors” with ads inviting shoppers to take advantage of the “inside deal” that’s normally available only to employees’ friends and relatives. The sale set a no-haggle price within about $200 of dealer invoice, though dealers were allowed to undercut that amount -- which many were doing." Per Ford CFO Shanks, “There is no incentive increase,” Shanks told analysts during a question-and-answer session in New York. “This was a marketing program. It was called what it was called to try to attract consumers. We are trying to market our products effectively.” And the sale was probably in response to this little tidbit, "Ford hoped the promotion would help generate strong sales to close out 2015, a year in which its market share has been flat. Forecasts from TrueCar and Edmunds.com show Ford’s share in November flat with a year ago and down from October -- an indication that the promotion had not panned out as much as executives had expected."

In case the WSJ is being a butthole and asking you to sign in or subscribe, here is another article detailing it. http://www.autonews.com/article/20151127/RETAIL/151129886/ford-drops-friends-&-neighbors-sale-early-opts-for-traditional-year

Just start thread banning people who talk about irrelevant crap for 5 pages in every thread. Throw that hammer 'round. <- That, that hammer. But then Ford fans would never be able to post. I kid, I kid folks.

No. I just asked him a simple question and he wants to dodge it after he hounded me for two pages about the same thing. That is all.

And the only reply you're worthy of is a reply c/o you ( post 77 ) " Again, BOTH the Z/28 and GT350R are overpriced in respect to the next step down variants of BOTH cars. I am really not sure what you are having a problem with here other than to try and attack me. " Again, not relevant because it's not me that made the overpriced statement in the first place. You did because you believed it is overpriced, as evidenced by your use of the term "rip off". Now that the Z28 is far cheaper, I simple asked you what you asked me. Remember, I think both were a rip off while you only think one is so just answer the simple question and stop side stepping.

It was marginally better in many respects. The margin of victory it had overall was smaller than the margin of victory between the SS and GT the other week, a margin that was dismissed by two certain posters here. Why does it apply now but not then? Perhaps because your favorite actually won this time? It is you that doesn't know what you are arguing. And #77 is no way related to what I asked. You know what i am talking and now your are dodging it. This was post #67, made by you. "Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?" ​I simply reversed it because it applies in this case, knowing that the Z28 is CHEAPER than the GT350R, as you repeatedly pointed out. Remember?

And correction to my first post. It should have read, "was so highly promoted by them".

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with. And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct. They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts. Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit. So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above. And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today. Theres 9 shown right here that range from $51,913 to $55,977 http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201 So, using the argument you gave a few days ago (with obvious terms reversed). "Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a GT350R that performs only marginally as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the Z28?"

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with. And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct. They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts. Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit. So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above. And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today. But doesn't that still make it a "rip off" Drew, as some claim here? Only as much as the $10k plus in dealer markup the Shelby will get ^This and $10K will be the minimum mark up for that car. There will be some $80K GT350Rs, bank on it.

Honestly, given the time of the year of big sales, I am surprised it didn't drum up more sales for them. They have plenty of new product but it really won't hurt them in the end.

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with. And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct. They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts. Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit. So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above. And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today. But doesn't that still make it a "rip off" Drew, as some claim here?

Ford just recently ended their "Friends and Neighbors" program that was so highly by them for the last month. Click on the link for more information. http://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-drops-friends-neighbors-sales-promotion-that-falls-flat-with-customers-1448644961

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker. He is even saying so on M/T comment section. So I went straight to the source. Got a problem with it? Again, get your knickers out of a bunch. In case you missed it, I agreed with your claim about the 0-60 but it was clear as day on that video what it was and didn't require the lengths you went to in order to prove Bong wrong. All you were doing there was instigating another never ending argument about absolutely nothing. Again, in case you are not getting the gist and just want to continue to argue and insult me, Bong is wrong here. Actually, by asking the source, I ended the argument. Well just go ahead and give yourself that much deserved pat on the back when anyone could have seen that by watching the video itself. It only took me one viewing to see who came out ahead.

Valid comparison using your logic and the fact that the discounts on those two are from the dealers and not the manufacturer.

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with. And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows that 10k difference is IN FACT correct. It is not a rip off. That is pure opinion on your part. Guess when dealers offer $12K off on a new F-150, it must be a rip off too, based on your logic. Remember, this is not Chevrolet offering this deals. These were from select dealers. Man, you can't even handle it when I agree with you so unless you have something productive to say to me for once, don't bother replying. And yes you are correct about the $10K difference. I was referencing a page that was not correct. Sue me.

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker. He is even saying so on M/T comment section. So I went straight to the source. Got a problem with it? Again, get your knickers out of a bunch. In case you missed it, I agreed with your claim about the 0-60 but it was clear as day on that video what it was and didn't require the lengths you went to in order to prove Bong wrong. All you were doing there was instigating another never ending argument about absolutely nothing. Again, in case you are not getting the gist and just want to continue to argue and insult me, Bong is wrong here.

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly shows the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS beat the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following, "Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?" Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

We have been told over and over again, that the Z/28 is in the low/mid 50k's... Thats why I said knock 20k off... 72k-20k = low/mid 50k.... Seems you have not been paying attention. Take a look at the link I added. http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201 And I do not recall Frisky saying " used " either. Can you link me to it? That link was not there the first time. Having looked at the updated link, yes I can see that there are some for that price. You were right but if you are expecting an apology, you are barking up the wrong tree because you have not earned an apology and will never get one from me. You know why if you search hard enough. BTW, it also doesn't change the fact that you cherry picked the 302 price as well when there are plenty for a far lower price than $52K. That is all. Now excuse me for not being impressed by a huge mark down of an OUTGOING platform on an OUTGOING car. What do you mean by if it's a 20% of unit?

I did and it's a $52K 302 with only 5K miles. Now show me where a Z/28, much less a new one, is selling for the price you claim. Back up what you THINK Frisky said and find me this mythical $50K NEW Z/28 or just drop it. Honestly, it is that simple because all you want to do is the same crap you do at MT and argue semantics. Show me the Z/28 for that price. It's that simple.

This this this. And with GM having to knock off 20k to move Z/28's off the lots, the bean counters may think twice about making another Z/28. ( Ford had no issues moving the Boss 302's - used ones are going for a premium.) http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=358117636 Okay, so I'm going to be a liar this one time because your post is just out in deep left field here. Show us where Chevrolet is offering $20K off of a NEW no longer in production Z28. Let me help you with that. http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-z28-track-car.html As a matter of fact, here is the current offer on the Z28. "Finance 0% APR for 72 months Plus $1,000 Purchase Bonus Cash" For the record, with a current price of $72K, I am pretty sure it never was $92K and if you are referring to what Dingo said a few days ago, then you clearly were not paying attention to what he said. Now, regarding your 302 claim, I guess it's real easy to make your claim when you pick the highest priced one by a private seller (never mind the one 5,000 miles on it hence the stupid price). Now here is one from a dealer with average miles. http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85345&endYear=2016&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=73009&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=50&showcaseListingId=410630270&trim1=MUST%7CBoss+302&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CBoss%2B302%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=412060730&Log=0 We have been told over and over again, that the Z/28 is in the low/mid 50k's... Thats why I said knock 20k off... 72k-20k = low/mid 50k.... Seems you have not been paying attention. So you did not pay attention to the fact that he said that you can get a USED one for $50-55K. There is a big difference there having known that ONE fact. Now, having said that, the cheapest USED Z/28 in my area is $61K with two others fetching $67K and $70K respectively, so again I say, you are the one that needs to pay attention to what is being said.