Frisky Dingo

I like the i3, but a stretched one would be a sales failure. Wanna go after Tesla? Make a sleek, sexy sedan.

You can buy a new Z for low 50's if it's a 20% of unit.

The pictured vehicle is very attractive. Audi knows how to do EV design, gotta give them that.

I enjoy discussing cars. Not talking smack. I already said I like the Shelby more, what more do you want? That doesn't change the fact that is a virtual guarantee that GM's competitor to the Shelby will surpass it, nor that the Z/28 is CHEAPER to buy, not more.

Lol, there's no aero effect at low-mid speed roll-on acceleration. Come on now. And if you think the Shelby's 150lb weight advantage makes up for it's 100 lb-ft torque deficit, I don't really know what to tell you. When you're foot is flat on the floor and you're racing somebody else, other than 1st gear, low-mid range torque means nothing. It could be down 200lb-ft under 4000rpm and it wouldn't matter once you're in second gear. Heck, once you're going about 25mph it wouldn't matter because the motor would be so wound up at that point. The drag race between the two cars is a perfect example of that. I'm going to do you a favor and pretend like you didn't just say any of that. In the interest of you still having credibility. Because I like you. Are you serious? When these high strung motors are spinning at 5000 rpm and up that torque advantage at 2000 rpm doesn't mean anything and when you're racing you're not just hanging out at 2000rpm. If your scenario was the case why did the GT350R win the quarter mile sprint with a higher trap speed as well? It couldn't have just been the 150lb advantage. If low-mid range torque was that critical I don't think there would have ever been a flat plane crank v8 into production. As a heart attack. That torque gap is going to felt on the street in day-to-day driving. The only person talking about drag racing is you. Hell, even the regular 5.0 feels soft down low.

No, but I can read a dyno graph. Ohhhhhh.. Dynos don't show weight or anything aero going on which both of these cars utilize in acceleration.And, as you've said, dynos are used for tuning not measuring lol Lol, there's no aero effect at low-mid speed roll-on acceleration. Come on now. And if you think the Shelby's 150lb weight advantage makes up for it's 100 lb-ft torque deficit, I don't really know what to tell you. When you're foot is flat on the floor and you're racing somebody else, other than 1st gear, low-mid range torque means nothing. It could be down 200lb-ft under 4000rpm and it wouldn't matter once you're in second gear. Heck, once you're going about 25mph it wouldn't matter because the motor would be so wound up at that point. The drag race between the two cars is a perfect example of that. I'm going to do you a favor and pretend like you didn't just say any of that. In the interest of you still having credibility. Because I like you.

Only a magazine racer who hasn't driven either car thinks they are useless for daily driving. With less aggressive rolling stock, I assure you they are totally capable of doing so. Also, for about the bajillionth time, the price difference in reality is in the Camaro's favor. Big time.,

No, but I can read a dyno graph. Ohhhhhh.. Dynos don't show weight or anything aero going on which both of these cars utilize in acceleration.And, as you've said, dynos are used for tuning not measuring lol And they don't show gear ratios, throttle tip in, blind spots, sight lines, chassis reflexes, steering ease and accuracy, clutch engagement, brake feel... Yeah, and none of those things except for the first two you mentioned have diddly squat to do with acceleration feel. The Z/28 has excellent throttle response. And it's geared well. So what, exactly, was the purpose of your post again?

No, but I can read a dyno graph. Ohhhhhh.. Dynos don't show weight or anything aero going on which both of these cars utilize in acceleration.And, as you've said, dynos are used for tuning not measuring lol Lol, there's no aero effect at low-mid speed roll-on acceleration. Come on now. And if you think the Shelby's 150lb weight advantage makes up for it's 100 lb-ft torque deficit, I don't really know what to tell you.

No, but I can read a dyno graph.

How is a cam and heads not a lot of investment? You're talking about a couple grand in parts.. Not saying it isn't very responsive to bolt ons(even though it already has an intake built by k&n) just that heads and a cam aren't really cheap and easy to do and will obviously require a tune. In the pushrod world, heads/cam is a fairly moderate upgrade. You're not opening up the engine to replace rods/pistons/crank/etc. It's a 3 grand cost if done right, yes. Still less than half the cost of forced induction, and still stock rotating assembly. And even if you wanna disregard that, even just intake, headers, and tune sees them picking up substantial gains- 50whp+.

You are 100% wrong. The LS7 is currently peaked or near peak in NA guise. GM threw a lot of money and a lot of tricks at it. To claim it is not, means you have not looked into the hardware and manufacturing costs or at the very least, priced a crate motor. GM even talked about how many millions of CAE iterations were modeled before achieving their goals. So unless you believe GM just left a lot on the proverbial table, or that suddenly CAE tools have evolved much better...then I see little room for improvement without much more cost thrown at at. The most exotic costly thing about the 5.2L is that they CNC'd the heads, which is pretty standard stuff. There is nothing costly about the FP crank, other than a new casting is needed. Hardly exotic. Pistons are forged, again, standard stuff. Basic aluminum rods, so no ultra premium lightweight titanium. And all the tuning was achieved with cam designs. Again, standard hot rod stuff. A 5.2L crate motor is much less than the LS7. The most exotic tech about the 5.2L was that they were pinched for larger bore diameter, so they plasma coated the bores instead of cylinder liners. You are welcome. An LS7 is 16K retail. I work at a GM store, in case you didn't know. And if theink the LS7 is anywhere near tapped out, you're even more clueless than I thought. http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1430350-ls7-heads-cam-dyno-final-results-619whp-532wtq.html Feels stronger than what? An Alpha or GT350R? The Shelby.

Just like to point out that the LS7 gains huge power with not a whole lot of investment. A decent cam, heads, and supporting bolt-ons puts them then in the upper 500's to the tire. It's not like that engine is tapped out by any means. As for doing 'more with less', well, the LS7 is physically smaller, lighter, and most likely more efficient to boot. Anybody got a price tag on this new 5.2 Ford fans are soiling themselves over? Also, again- the Z/28 does not have 'numb' steering. I've driven one back to back with my old E90, which had tons of steering feel, and did not find it numb. Did it offer AS MUCH feel, no. Was it numb? Far from it. And it certainly doesn't feel numb to drive. About as far from numb as you can get, really.

Thing is ugly. Hard pass.

This car plus .3L and 75hp/30tq should have been the Z06.

Throw the 0-60 times out the window, I can promise you the Z/28 feels stronger out on the street. Again, cost-no-object, I'd take the Shelby, but it's a narrow victory for it, and I think whatever GM has coming will easily surpass it.

Again, in the real world- you know, where we all live (most of us, anyway)- the Z/28 is cheaper to buy than a GT350-R. Much cheaper.

One other thing I'd like to note- Once upon a time, MT did a Mustang GT vs BMW M3 test, and all the Ford fans were the first to talk about simply because the M3 was almost matched by the much cheaper GT's numbers, the M3 wasn't worth the price, and all the subjective things like 'feel', 'sound', 'quality', and the like were things that could easily be discounted. But now that we have a Ford here that sounds exotic, has a better interior, and more refined and livable drive, in other words, the 'intangibles', it's some kind of grand accomplishment. It's funny how quickly we change the bar we use to measure with when our product of choice is in question.

I wouldn't classify the Camaro's steering as numb. Not by a long shot. The Ford's may have more feel, but calling the Camaro's numb is just undue criticism to help justify the Mustang as the winner. At no other point have they levied such complaints at the Z/28. Overall, the car has great steering, at least to compared to other EPS systems on the market. As for the comparo itself, I can't fault them for giving the Mustang the win. It performs as good or better, feels and looks more special, and it is undoubtedly more driveable on the street. Just no object, it's the one I'd have. Avalanche Gray sans stripes, thanks. That said, I'd hope the R would beat the Z/28. As great as the Z is, it's using an outgoing platform, an engine that debuted 10 years ago, and has a replacement already undergoing development. For how big of an improvement the Z gained over the standard SS, and how good the new SS is, all we need at this point is an SS 1LE to have the GT350 covered. Then there's the whole isue of what it costs to buy these cars in the real world. You aren't going to be able to touch a new R for less than 10K mark up. And you can buy a new Z/28 for low 50's. Sorry, but you're not gonna make me think the Shelby is 25 grand better. At that point, I'll take the Camaro, throw in a more aggressive cam and heads, have the Mustang covered, and then by a DD with the left over.

Damn, what a looker. Here I was beginning to think Nssan/Infiniti didn't have it in them to make a desirable car anymore. This could be a big hit, gents. Especially if they put a DCT behind that 3.0TT V6. My interest will have officially been piqued.

I just can't get behind any of the cars in this class in coupe form. Too expensive and compromised, imo. If I'm giving up rear doors and a usable backseat, I'll just take something more honest like the new Camaro SS or GT350. As for the car itself, I have nothing against the looks. They're much better without that tacky rear spoiler. For the money though, I'd still have the M3. Just personal preference.

The Encore is far smaller than the X1, no?

Looks good, but it readily identify as a Buick in my eyes. Interior is nice, but not earth-shattering. I'd like to see this car get an option like the 400hp AWD Lincoln that was also shown.

They won't. They already were working on this car and then gave it to Fiat instead. Alfa is apparently getting their own platform. That makes no sense to me, but what the hell do I know?

This thing is ugly as hell. Major wasted opportunity. Guess we're gonna have to hope Alfa gets their hands on this platform to get a car off it that has enticing looks and performance.