Frisky Dingo

Would be very cool.

Those lists are fun, but that's about the extent of it. Numerous cars missing, numerous cars that shouldn't have been on the list. Popular Mechanics is very, very far from the last word on automotive historical significance/excellence.

Lol, so how TF were they planning on building this in the first place?? This makes less than 0 zero sense.

Both of the cars in this test make the CTS-V interior feel like a Focus. Sorry. The Ciel is easily a much better and dramatic-looking car than either of these two. And if they built it right- meaning they didn't skimp on materials/powertrain- it would be my pick of the trio by some margin. Unfortunately Cadillac seems to lack the cajones to build such a car. I mean, we've only been waiting for a REAL flagship for how long?

The top picture isn't even the current S Class. And anyway, I said the AMG's interior was better. Though that's more a result of it being newer and having a fresher design than anything. The Bentley's interior still pales just about anything else in comparison. I would argue there's much more to luxury than a car's interior. The Huayra does have an impeccably crafted interior, but I feel it's needlessly busy, and the exterior is just plain ugly.

I just saw a white first gen CLS55 AMG slammed on Vossens a little earlier. Looked incredible. In my eyes, they'll never top the first car's design.

This gen never did do much for me.

I'll reserve final judgement, but I don;t have high expectations for this car. Particularly from a driving dynamics standpoint.

Based on what I've seen, the very initial hit is worse on Cadillacs. With cars, anyway. About 3-4 years in, however, they've leveled out and aren't as severe as many European offerings.

Says the guy who hasn't even had a drink with me yet when I've been here for 9 months now!

I drink tequila, but I suppose if it meant sitting down and having a person-person chat with you, I could stomach beer.

I'm glad this thread is causing so much discussion, and that everyone here is mature enough to engage in civil conversation, even in disagreement. I love that about this place. That never could have happened over at MT forums.

Those luxury cars of yore weren't exactly light weights!

Well, personally, of course I'd be shopping sports cars in this bracket. Any bracket, really. I'd buy a GT350R over a 5 Series. I'd buy a 911 over an S Class. I'd buy a Huracan before I bought a Continental. Even if it meant DD'ing a Yaris. But the point of these threads is to consider and choose between cars that you normally wouldn't. We all know most of us prefer Ferraris, Vipers, and McLarens. That's too easy and predictable, though. And again, I promise you the Bentley does NOT feel devoid of passion.

Now this I completely agree with. It is without question less about the cars themselves, and more about projecting an image. No arguing there. I think you guys need to drive a Bentley Continental then. You'll see how much it stands apart from a mainstream car, trust me.

Okay, but Infiniti's highest offerings don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Bentley, Maybach, or Rolls. I feel like this is where the disconnect is happening. Up to roughly the ~100K cars, I agree there is little distinction, character, presence, and desirability. I'm with you there. Going beyond that into the 200K + cars, I beg to differ.

@A Horse With No Name & @balthazar I wholeheartedly understand preferring the styling of a different generation, but I have to highly question many of the things you are mentioning as slights against the newer cars. Do you all really mean to tell me you think cars of this ilk have more plastic than cars from the 70's? Or that the materials as a whole aren't miles better? Or that is inferior in detailing? Have you guys sat in cars like these? Because I've been in both, and while I unabashedly love old Cadillacs, Lincolns, and the like- especially the Continental and big Pontiacs- today's luxury cars are on a whole different level. The stitching, the leather, the veneers, the switch gear. They're much further removed from the average mainstream car of today than those vehicles were back then. I can somewhat give you the popularity argument. They are built in greater numbers. Though with the price gap and exclusivity they still hold, I don't think that's a very large criticism. If we're focusing our discussions on a segment down- 5 Series and the like, I certainly think there is more merit to you guys' stance then. But at the highest level of luxury cars, I feel they are great as they've ever been, and possibly even will be.

Was wondering about that.

Getting into some big guns at this point. Let's see some lists!! Rules- 1) Production cars only. 2) These are your only vehicles. 3) Maximum of 5 choices. 4) Any era and market is allowed. 5) Cars MUST have MFR's rating of AT LEAST 500 hp, but NO MORE THAN 599 hp.

The Buick Cascada mentioned earlier is indeed FWD. I mistakenly thought the Lincoln Olds posted was a Mark IV, but it is a Mark III. I stand correct there. And it's not that those cars aren't within my comfort zone, just that they aren't included in the thread's premise. I do plenty of other threads with rather loose rules that allow such picks. I personally absolutely detest the Malaise Era of Domestic cars. Why don't you like modern luxury cars? Thank you. See that wasn't hard, was it?

The M Class and X5 came out in 1998 and 1999 respectively. That was well into the transition away from large RWD sedans to FWD ones, I'm not sure how you'd try to dispute that. Truck sales were not near what they are today when the Blackwood was out. Furthermore, the kinds of trucks being built were far different. The truck market today no longer caters only to farmers and tradesmen. It's expended. Making a pickup would be too terribly difficult. Look at the Ridgeline. Data?? Lol, you want data? How about you just read any report of auto sales and how truck sales are doing? There's plenty of data on this. I'm going to repeat this, and then leave, because there is is really nothing of merit anyone could use to dispute it- Spending the money to build this and then ignoring the biggest truck market, along with one of MB's biggest markets, there is would be colossally stupid.

A 5 grand retail car can very easily depreciate to a $1,000 car in less than 3 years.

Yeah, no. I see cars that run and drive fine all the time that are only worth $1,000. You can probably private party it for 3K or close to, but trade-in? Absolutely it is not not uncommon to see cars worth that little. #1) Yes and no. The problem is that often times even when someone is being mindful of cost, they only look at the immediate savings rather than down the road at total cost of ownership, residual value, etc. People will buy a Dodge or Nissan over a Honda or Subaru to save a few grand up front to get a car with statistically far inferior reliability and resale value. Then, when it's time to trade it in, the car is worth a fraction of what some of their other options would have been. It's poor logic, and many buyers outright refuse to accept it. #2) Yes, and this is almost always their own doing. Pay your bills. It's simple. Pay your bills, and you will have at least decent credit. Enough to buy a good car with a reasonable (6-7%) rate. People just flat out refuse to pay payments- many times small ones like $30-40- and then wonder why they have crappy credit. It's astounding. #3) This one you did nail, and it is a massive problem in it's own right. Wages have been stagnant for a very long time. The cost of goods and living is increasing at an exponentially faster rate that peoples' income. Something will have to give eventually. #4) This is a good point that hasn't been brought up yet. More and more people are not only not putting money down, but rolling their sales tax into the loan. This should really be avoided. For one, you're going to pay interest on it, making the amount more. The bigger reason is you are already starting yourself out in an even bigger hole in terms of value relative to what you owe. #5) This isn't quite impossible, but it's very, very, very unlikely. It's easily the least significant factor here. #6) Leasing is really an option that should be looked at by more buyers. So many of them are digging themselves an ever-deeper hole by buying, and trading 2-4 years later. Leasing would eliminate so many issues brought up in this thread. Unfortunately, after so many article telling buyers how terrible leases are, and how much advice they've gotten from family and friends about how bad it is, many aren't even open-minded to it. Their loss. #7) This is such a phenomenally good point, and one that people who have high income or old-school thought and buy cars with cash. IT IS JUST NOT FEASIBLE, OR EVEN SMART IN MANY CASES, FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON. Let's just say you're being reasonable and plan to buy a $12,000 car with cash. Rather than going and financing it for $235 a month, you save $300 a month and put back towards it. In the mean time, you have to have transportation somehow. So what?? You pay to ride a bus? You give someone gas money? You continue to drive and maintain that old hooptie? All of those things are taking money away from you, the only difference is- YOU DON'T HAVE A NEW(ER) CAR. It floors me how many people fail to understand this. #8) This is also a very, very good point, and it;s one I've talked about for some time now. Things cannot continue on their current trajectory. That is fact. Something will have to change. If wages don't increase, which is extremely unlikely; and if car prices don't come down, which is just as unlikely; another solution must happen. I think a special class of vehicles that weren't as regulated and had less equipment and far cheaper costs would be a great idea. It would help car sales continue to be strong, and it would place transportation in the hands of many who currently don't have it, or have poor forms of it.

This is a good point. This is really is the last hurrah for auto sales. It's a downward spiral from here. As autonomous cars come online, the variety will shrink and leave niche offerings out in the cold. People will carpool more. That will in turn free up road room and space elsewhere. Which will increase the public transit options. It will be a domino effect.

I was asking between two specific cars for that very reason- so people would get outside of their comfort zones and think about something fresh.