Stew

Of course, GM could buy the old Yugo plant and start building them and you would claim everybody loves their Yugo and never has issues. That said, my brother loves his ATS, as do I, but neither of us pretends it is a reliability champion.

You are probably right, but I wish manufacturers would actually take chances on things like this.

What I have said has everything to do with it, but yes. Let it go.

Ya don't like truth and the facts? no my problem. I have owned at least 25 cars in my 21 years of driving, most have been GM, a lot of first year, last year, and every year in between models. Cadillac, Pontiac, Chevy, and Buick have all been in my driveway, hell, there is a Chevy, 99 first year model btw, Silverado in my driveway right now. My bug is also a first year model, my 2004 Dakota, and 11 Camry on the other hand are both from the last years for their generation. Only my 01 Dakota falls in the middle area. Anyways, for Pete's sake, i am done.

How? i am going via my own experiences and you KNOW what I am saying is the truth. Hell, if I was buying in that market it would be the new a4/5 or S4/5. I am just realistic, not only when it comes tio first year quality and being equal with chances to not pretending like my favorite is perfect in the qualit and reliability department. Sorry that GM and Ford and that great either and you can ignore things like engine failures and find that less worrisome than a sunroof that won't open. I mean hell, what is the point in even arguing here? You are going to damn them even if they end up having at least average quality and try to claim others have far better quality than they actually do.

Oh yes, really liking that idea

True. thinking of it, I could see some limited appeal and a niche maket. I wouldn't mind one if it had the 2.0T and some at least minor off-roadability.

That's it! There are still a few of those running around here I see every now and then. I actually kind of like those.

kind of reminds me of the old Suzuki, what was it, X90?

It is interesting, but I am not sure of the demand for convertible crossovers in the US.

And for the record, my next round of vehicles will probably not be from FCA, GM, or Ford. Would probably go for another VW before any of those 3 at this point (ZR2 and Power Wagon are the exceptions). And let's get this straight, i am not talking Toyota and Honda quality here, GM quality, sure!

That is sad because at one time they were actually innovators in the market. Knew is was going in a bad direction when they started watering the Eclipse down or the 3rd gen.

You know I have stood up for GM and owned more GM than anything so your assertion is totally off base. And yes, he has had these issues and his 09 CTS was worse (Sunroof and trunk leaks, AWD failure, and a wiring issue that caused his ABS to malfunction and actually caused him to get into an accident). And i know many people who have had Cadillacs and swore them off because of issues. more than likely you either don't know about your friends issues ar, like you accuse me of, are lying. Cadillac has issues and that is part of the reason their sales pretty much suck right now. It is a shame too, because the style, design, and drive are first rate. My point is, there is no real proof that Alfa is going to be unreliable once they get past their first year. Believe me, i have owned, and actually own 2 first year products (the Beetle and the Silverado (OH $h!! I OWN A GM!!!!) and they have their first year issues. For the Beetle it is window issue, the Silverado, pinging 5.3. My 97 F-150 rusted in 2. (literally, the frame split along the middle, same with the Silverado b ut not quite that bad). Now, my Patriot was a first year model and it was probably the most reliable vehicle I have owned. Bought it with 300 miles and sold with 126k miles. Only had to do normal maintenance and front ball joints (did a lot of off0road in it). So, before you make accusations look at yourself. if it was GM offering this, you would be singing their praises and how it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We all know this. Listen, if 2 years in they are as unreliable as my brother's Cadillacs have been, i will give it to you that they are unreliable. Sound like a deal? And see above......

And the one in the big test had no issues. Again, first year models, any car suffer. 13 Escapes and Focuses suffered issue after issue and recall after recall, and yes, the Vette issue IS relevant because like the Alfa, it is low production. And it is certainly comparable to the ATS which my brother's, BTW, started throwing codes again this weekend. Of course it isn't a first year model and these kind of glitches should have been worked out at least before the 3rd model year. Again, you can't damn one manufacturer and ignore the rest because it suits your needs at the time........

I guess my point is that they deserve the same chance as anyone else. So far the issues have been minor and not unexpected for a new car on a new platform. Kind of off-topic, but looking at the new Camry and hearing how good the new TNG platform is, everyone will have a lot to worry about as Toyota is coming back full force.

You do remember the Ford and GM products of the time, right? I got them because i liked them, but everyone had issues. Blown headgaskets in my 3.8 T-Bird, every front end piece, AC, and blown out freeze plugs TWICE in my 5.0 T-Bird, and every GM had the fuel pump fail, front end issues, and the interiors literally fell apart in your hands. We are talking about the same tim period here.

I have actually been an Alfa fan, as i was Pontiac, I loved my flawed b and D bodies and MN12s. You act as if I am only a one manufacturer fanboy. guess what? i have owned more GM than anything and a number of Fords. Right now I have 2 Dodges, a Chevy, a VW, and a Toyota. When Alfa left, GM and Fords were just as bad (i have owned a number of each from that era).

A $h! ton of Corvettes. they were never known for their reliability or build quality. Civic? generally good there and that is why my next daily will be one. The Giulietta in Europe actually does NOT have a bad reliability record so you cannot say all of them. That car is also a high production unit which gives us a better idea than the Alfas built 20 years ago or low production sports cars. Nope, again, you are ignoring the issues of the manufacturer you want to succeed while damning the one the one you want to succeed. When Alfa left all GM had was pure, unreliable, poorly built garbage. Every model basically across every manufacturer. Same for Ford. Yet, you ive them the benefit of the doubt when there is proof out there that they still aren't too great.

Except this is the first large production Alfa in 20 years. fiats, again, were old on old platforms before they ever crossed the ocean while this is a new platform with a proven transmission and an engine designed, like the platform, for far more mainstream models. I hear your side of the story, but it isn't the only side. You can down one car manufacturer because you don't want to succeed while ignoring the issues of the one you want to succeed. GM's problems, for example, go FAR beyond the few small things i have listed.

Showing examples of $h!ty reliability from other manufacturers is certainly relevant here. You want to damn this new car without any real data or proof and at the same time do not want other manufactures brought up because it invalidates your point. You are the one not even giving a vehicle a chance while ignoring MAJOR quality and reliability issues from another manufacturer simply because you like them. get real. You Also keep bringing up reputation, but guess what? GM doesn't exactly have a great quality record, especially Cadillac, but i don't see you holding that against them....... It is like you want one to succeed and want the other to fail. i personally want to see both succeed.

Early set Alzheiners?

Surreal, those 2 Corvettes were production models, so....... Dfelt, no they have not been proven unreliable. Little electrical glitches in pre-production and early production models are not unheard of for ANY manufacturer. Again, see Car and Driver having TWO Corvettes actually grenade their engines. See early production Civics being recalled because the new 2.0 NA engine had issues, see GM's new 1.5 turbo in the Malibu LITERALLY melting their pistons, these are reliability issues. i have yet to see where an Alfa actually broke down, the engine blew up, or it left the driver stranded. We need a new RS4. The A4 and S4 are great and i love the virtual cockpit. The new A5 is really growing on me too. BMW used to be everyone's darling, but they have seriously lost their way. Mo.,o it isn't. The Fiat's were old on old platforms well before they got here. The only trul new Fiat is the 500X CUV and I haven't really seen data on it where it is so new, but my guess is, like the Renegade, the biggest thing was the first year tuning of the 9 speed auto.

A non-functional sunroof on an early production model is NOT enough to say the quality is going to suck. My brother's ATS is 15, 3rd year in prodcution, with less than 10k miles and has had to have the entire CUE infotainment headunit replaced AND the PCM flashed for shifting and rough idle issues........ Besides, what does the sunroof was broke mean? it wouldn't open? There were actual parts broken off? Tremendous wind noise?

Check MT's latest comparison, one had issues with the infotainment and the other had no issues, hint the Alfa's system was not the one with issues

Car and Driver just did a comparison where the Quadrifoglio came out on top of the C63, M3, and ATS-V with no issues and Motor trend did a 9 car test where the regular Giulia finished 1st with no issues beating out 8 rivals. it is a wait and see, it is just annoying when people automatically damn it when their choices aren't exactly the top of the reliability game themselves (not talking about you and thanks for the response)......