oldshurst442

I think that this Euro Van is the looker from all of them. It has cute little front fender bulges that stylize well and integrate perfectly with the headlight design. My only concern is that maybe its too cute for a very masculine plumber or electrician but perfect for a florist.... If I had a small business that needed a small cargo van, I think Id go with it... And with matching body coloured bumpers, it looks even better. The Ford Transit Connect is a close second for me. But...I too, am fed up with the Euro vans and their crappy styling.

That is exactly what I wanted to say...but I figured I did not want to waste my energy trying to explain what the Phaeton was/is...This car debuted in 2002...You know...13 years have passed...if people havent learned what this car was all about in 13 years, there is no sense in me wasting my time and energy trying to teach. I was ignorant about this car in 2002. I hated it. I hated VW for it. But sometime between 2002 and 2015, I read up on it and learned about it and soon, my hatred disappeared at the same rate as my ignorance... For what the Phaeton can do and was engineered to do, I respect it. I admire them as cars, and as a big lux sedan lover, I've looked into them on the used market. However, I cannot get around the extremely expensive care and feeding of them... even by German Uber Sedan standards. A luxury car for people under 5' 10" tall. Had some great engineering but over all was over rated. Not over rated, but rather UNDER rated hence why it is no longer. Like Ive stated before, wrong badge on the hood. About the 5'10" thing... I highly doubt that...I have sat in one, but Im fairly short...Ill just go with Jeremy Clarkson... I take it that Clarkson is one tall gent...6.'4" high...I googled...and google told me 1.96 meters in which I used google conversion after that...and he seems to fit quite snuggly in the driver's seat...and quite comfilly in the back with that nice tall blonde... so...sorry DFELT if I doubt your assumption... And seeing this car is practically the same as a Bentley Continental GT in which many many NBA superstars bought...Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, NFL guys like RG III and Darren McFadden I dont think what you are saying holds too much water....sorry.

It also grew at the hips, SMK... Its width grew 3 inches...now...that does not seem like much...and M-B's were always biggish cars to begin with as compared to its Bavarian brethren, but...lets face it SMK, the E class is a Land Yacht whether you want to admit it or not... Hey..I LOVE me some land yachts, just not the E Class....Its OK...you could continue liking M-B...I dont judge you, I never will, just take off the rosy coloured glasses when you wax poetic about M-B, the company and its cars, are not all that cracked up to be... Built like a tank that W123 was, luxury it was not... Luxury is what the E Class is trying to be today, compared to its competitors, it fairs pretty well, but a tank it is not... Oh....luxury on the high end level fairs pretty well, on the lower Euro trims, the W210 is what Im talking about....yeah 13 years ago...it was pretty shytty...W-Body Impala 3.4 liter V6 shytty...worse...it had a 1.8 liter 4 banger. could even had been a 1.6....too lazy to Google and Im going by memory... What does all this have to do with the Lincoln? Ill make a connection... In retrospect...it really is not fair that we North Americans are taking the 2016 Continental apart and dissing it the way we do...because we North Americans are are giving a waaaaay to easy pass on the E Class and C Class from M-B...maybe we should start leaving American brands alone and start been harsh with the German ones...because memory just hit me hard... In 2001 when I visited Greece for the umpteenth time, I analyzed Euro cars, M-B included, and no matter how low Lincoln was in 2001, in which Lincoln did not really sink low in 2001, never had a product in the mainstream econo market as M-B was and continues to be... We could all make fun of Lincoln and the Continental...but if one could have seen how lowly those W210s really were... My drunkin' rant is over. And I swear...I dont recall spiking my eggnog with anything...

I LOOOOOVE Aston Martin... If I had to wear a suit to work everyday and worked Down Town Montreal or Old Montreal, obviously making the money necessary to own one of these, Id definitely be an owner of one. But...being that I flip hamburgers and serve hot dogs for a living, negating the need for a suit, and had I been single of course, this NSX as a daily driver fits my style just nicely. I guess in a way, Ive got it covered. I drive a 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD and the wife drives a 2013 Ford Fusion... Id say we are living the life....on the cheap... Kinda like....Chinese Knock-off style... Canal Street NYC type deal...even the city I live in...Montreal...its like a cheap version of NYC...or it used to be anyways...mind you...the French Joie de Vivre attitude of Montreal is far more cooler than the "City That Never Sleeps" attitude of NYC...

That is exactly what I wanted to say...but I figured I did not want to waste my energy trying to explain what the Phaeton was/is...This car debuted in 2002...You know...13 years have passed...if people havent learned what this car was all about in 13 years, there is no sense in me wasting my time and energy trying to teach. I was ignorant about this car in 2002. I hated it. I hated VW for it. But sometime between 2002 and 2015, I read up on it and learned about it and soon, my hatred disappeared at the same rate as my ignorance... For what the Phaeton can do and was engineered to do, I respect it. I admire them as cars, and as a big lux sedan lover, I've looked into them on the used market. However, I cannot get around the extremely expensive care and feeding of them... even by German Uber Sedan standards. I am not surprise at all from what you are suggesting to me that the Phaeton is one finicky vehicle. I believe you, sir. I have no reasons to doubt you.

Can you give me the next powerball numbers too? The EClass is not some great handler...its big and heavy and soft... Which is absolutely fine for the demographic who buys it. And maybe that is why I had called the E Class a land yacht...to what Drew pointed out... I had that in mind when you side tracked me SMK in letting me forget about the E Class' ride and you directed your argument towards size... Size does not always coincide with the American Land yacht definition..a late 1990s W-Body Buick Century is mid-sized towards the lower spectrum of mid-sized and its ride very much qualifies as a land yacht...the E-Class not only has gained some length from the very first E Class of the early 1990s, but it also inherited some American culture...since because the modern 2000s E-Class is really marketed for the American Market...unlike its predecessor..the 300, and the generation before it, the W123...which really was made as an econobox Taxi service car for the Middle East and Europe...need I remind you how small those two generations were as well?

SMK...I like that thought process. I dont know how accurate it might be in the real world about customers not buying sedans anymore and buying CUVs and SUVs therefore 300 000 Cavaliers sold to offset the SUV gas guzzling does not apply...but its a very logical thought process that has a lot of truth to it. Maybe GM SHOULD try to get mega weight down from ALL of their trucks and SUVs/CUVs with technology akin to the Malibu and CT6 (like you stated) because gosh darn it...(like you said)...the trends for SUVs/CUVs is only rising... Maybe Ford AINT that dumb to have invested in alumunium and ecoboost V6s in their bread and butter F-150.

That is exactly what I wanted to say...but I figured I did not want to waste my energy trying to explain what the Phaeton was/is...This car debuted in 2002...You know...13 years have passed...if people havent learned what this car was all about in 13 years, there is no sense in me wasting my time and energy trying to teach. I was ignorant about this car in 2002. I hated it. I hated VW for it. But sometime between 2002 and 2015, I read up on it and learned about it and soon, my hatred disappeared at the same rate as my ignorance...

Hey EL K. In keeping with what you said about God Bless America... Remember this rendition of O Canada? I remember watching Mr. Dress up and The Friendly Giant and this would come on. The visuals man, and the orchestra. Best Ever I think! I just teared up...

I could care less for the sight lines honestly. Like I said in another thread, I learned to parallel park in a 1988 Chevy fullsized van. No windows on the side panels other than the rear door square windows waaaaay in the back. Two little square windows at that. I relied on the massive side mirrors and the dinky rear view mirror to drive and park that beast. I dont think there is another vehicle on the planet with worse sight lines than a fullsized work van. I think I could deal with the Camaro's sight lines just fine. But in a world where back-up cameras are needed even for pint sized sub-compacts....we will definitely have whiners for the sight lines of a Camaro...Zeta or otherwise... The Zeta Camaro interior was never really an issue for me either....again, I daily drove that 1988 Chevy fullsized Van for 3 months straight....in the dead of Montreal winter...for 2-3 winters straight...plus...as an owner of a then new 1994 Pontiac Grand Am GT, the Zeta Camaro's interior is a Bentley compared... The D-Day inspired start-up is not a surprise. Its expected. As is for its performance. So..back to the exterior styling. And for me...THAT would be the single most important criteria that HAS to be satisfied as THAT is the reason why I would want to buy a car like that... Its to show off with...and If I dont feel comfortable looking at it when I approach it, then how could I feel good about it when I show off with it? Sure, the rumble of the V8 and the performance numbers it wreaks out...but Id be embarrassed by it knowing that Witwicky is the driver of one... On the other hand, The Bandit, or Frank Bullit or even Kowalski...well...a young Burt and a young Steve McQueen...these guys are the stereotypical cool guy...Shia Leboeuf and a kids cartoon...not so much...

The car looks more sculpted in real life...I got to see the Camaro in person then because as with the Corvette, I bet its pretty jaw dropping, incredibly gorgeous in real life. The only thing that holds me back from really liking it is the exterior styling reminds me too much of Bumblebee no matter how it may look in real life. I just wished Chevy went with a slightly more evolutionary style rather than Photoshop a couple of details here and there (a more muscular sculpted look from the Zeta), reduce by 75-80% and then copy and paste ... http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/reviews/a27655/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2016-ford-mustang-gt/ From the Road and Track link comparo comparing Chevy and Ford pony cars 2016... That sentiment also summarizes it for me. To boot...the Zeta Camaro aint exactly a thing of beauty in my eyes either. But...like I have stated many times in the past, I might just give it a pass and start liking the Alpha Camaro just because there is a chance the car's looks redeems itself by being a sculpted heartthrob in the flesh.

That is one way to look at that diamond shaped leather... I actually like the way it looks though, but in no way do I equate diamond shapes in leather as a high fashion statement for luxury cars... I also happen to think the diamond shaped leather is overdone. Bentley and Lambo also offers that look. AND...If a plebeian Ford product offers one ...not much originality in M-B is there???!!!

OK...maybe I was wrong in calling it a land yacht. Its the perception I get whenever I see one. Its...square and bulky...in all the wrong places. It looks huge. It would be OK had it looked imposing and intimidating, however, it just plain looks awkward. Of all the cars you mentioned...the CTS by faaaaar looks the best. The sportiest and the classiest. The Jaguar looked good 5 years ago. This new one looks dated just because it did not change enough from the last generation. The 5 Series had only two gens that were GREAT looking. The E34 and E39. The 7 Series was always a dog. The W211, I think, is the classiest looking car to be built by anybody after the new Millennium. But I was peeved at it when it first came out....something about the Merger of Equals. Now....one of my wacky dreams is to take an AMG W211, rip out that superb V8 motor, and shoehorn a Hellcat 6. 2 Supercharged Hemi...you know, for the ironic effect... just to stick it to Mercedes... The A6...*YAWN*...what were you sayin *YAWN*...about the A6?

EXACTLY!

Yeah...expensive jets...Canada may have just canceled that contract....I hope they did. CRAPPY EFFIN' jet. The F4 Phantom II. I LOVE that plane. My second most favorite jet ever. Viet Nam war pics. And in 3rd place is the Russian MiG 29/35 Fulcrum. The French Dassault Rafale and Mirage 2000 closely follow in 4rth and 5th place. I dont like the F/A 18 too much. Super Hornet or otherwise. I never like the F-14. I loved the movie though. But...as with cars, my favorite era would be WW2 in that I prefer the classics over the modern.

Sorry, I thought it was the S Class. I forgot that M-B wants to do LCDs across the line-up...still doesnt change the fact that the speedometer cluster looks like something I viewed as a young adult on a video game. And the E-Class is a land yacht itself as of lately... Problem is SMK...I dont like cars to park themselves...I like to park the bloody car myself... I learned to parallel park on a 1988 Chevy Fullsized van...a work van, no windows on the side panels, just 2 square windows on the back doors waaaaay in the back... I even learned to park that thing without back up sensors telling me how close I am to the vehicle in the back...because there was no such thing back in '88. SMK...although the S Class looks awesome for 2015, I dont lust for one. The E-Class looks like crap...the ONLY E Class I liked was the W211 2002-2009 E Class. From the premium to luxury cars in 2015? Maybe an AMG CLS 63, a M6 Grand Coupe, a CT6 would tickle my fancy. A Tesla Model S...and that is about it... Id rather resto-mod/pro tour a classic American car from the 1950s/1960s/early 1970s and put modern tech and luxury into them and spend that 100 000 thousand rather then buy something modern. Other than those 4 cars I mentioned...

When we were lookin' to get the wife a car and before we settled on the Fusion, we looked at the Verano and the Encore... My wife and I were amazed how much room there is in the Encore, and how much upscale it feels. Far more upscale than the Fusion and the Terrain. But it aint fair to criticize the Terrain as its an older vehicle. She just did not like the looks of the Encore. She preferred the Fusion. She liked the Verano, but since we kinda gave away the Mazda 3 to her brother, she felt that she wanted a bigger car than what she had before. The interior space both back and front of the Verano mimicked our 2009 Mazda 3...so we went with the bigger Fusion. If it werent for the exterior looks of the Encore, I think she might have chosen the Encore as she was more comfortable with the interior of the Encore rather than the Fusion's. I however think the Encore looks so much like a premium vehicle. I think the blue ring on the headlight bezels along with the waterfall grill give it that classic Buick luxury look. I like the Encore, a lot. But between the Fusion and the Encore, I do prefer the Fusion myself. Not a fair thing though for the Encore, I dont do SUVs, even less for small CUVs.

You know what makes me laugh... The Conti's interior looks like it mated with that S-Class and they begat this: A Mondeo Vignale... I do like the diamond look on the S-Class, its just toooooo busy with the vertical lines of the wood grain...

Is it better than this one? Actually....I dont like that interior... What I dont like about it: 1. Holy liquid crystals Batman...that speedometer looks like a Playstation Gran Turismo video game cluster...its effin cheesy if you ask me... And yes...Ive seen one live...it looks worse up close and personal... 2. too many lines and diamonds in the design in the wood grain and the seat leather making it look busy rather than elegant... It makes me dizzy just looking at it...There was a link about how M-B is going on with this....and probably many people will adore this...I for one cant stand it... Im sure the quality of the materials are great...and the colour combo is chosen by the customer...so Im leaving that colour combo alone...but it aint my cup of tea that choice of brown...I dont have a problem with that brown really, but for me, that white dont go with that brown...and then there is that black...too many colours that dont blend well...but like I said...this is more of a customization thing... It really is not fair to compare the S Class interior with the Continental interior...because the S Class is that much of a bigger car, wider... The Continental's interior looks cramped as its based on a mid-sized car that will be enlarged to what will barely make it to full size , from the Fusion platform... The S-Class really is of Land Yacht proportions making that "sleek" interior look vast...which makes a huuuuuge difference in perception of luxury.... The Conti's interior and the Lacrosse's interior are fine for what price range they are in...Im not in awe of them, but Im not a hater of them either.

I agree with you SMK for M-B being able to charge more because of image. The one Cadillac where I think beats M-B in image in an equivalent price and product area is the Escalade. One thought to ponder is if Cadillac ever chooses to price a future Cadillac Escalade V in M-B territory, in $120 000 territory, how well would people react to that? Because in the lower trims, in the $70 000 - $90 000 price range...the Escalade has the GL beat in image and prestige. BUT....M-B DOES offer a trim above that....so... And...the GL @ $120 000 is quite successful...

Maybe the could also hire Gordon Gekko while they're at it...

Hey CCAP... I think this is what it is...but with number 80... Im KNOW its the NATO Tigers...its the number that Im not sure of...

It wasnt a sad attempt at luxury though... Cadillac in 2015 STILL does not have a car worthy of this Phaeton...as the CT6 is not available yet... It really is embarrassing that it took Cadillac THIS long to get a car going in this league...a DECADE... HA! MORE THAN A DECADE!!!! Sorry if you dont agree, but the Phaeton was an engineering marvel. It just wore the wrong badge on the hood.

Wanted to give a shout out to GENERAL DYNAMICS for placing 13th in that Fortune Blue Ribbon thing they got going on... http://fortune.com/2015/12/15/blue-ribbon-2015/ GOOD ON YOU GENERAL DYNAMICS!!! The original developers of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, my absolute fave Fighter Jet.

Manufacturers that sell to rental fleets...why do some folk think its bad? Its bad only when your customer base is srinking because you build crap cars and you dump the rest of your unsold crap to rental fleets to bolster up sales... However, its good business when actual customers buy your cars because they actually want to own them and so you sell some of your less than stellar performing cars to rental fleets...maybe the cars that arent selling is because that generation is coming to end...whatever, its good business to sell...to whomever that wants to buy your cars... In other words...selling to fleets is just good business... If your business model sucks or if your products suck and your over all compnay sucks for variuos reasons...its not because you sell your cars to fleets heavily that selling to fleets is bad...your company sucks regardless where and to whom you sell to... What I find horrible in all of this where Hyundai/ Kia and Nissan is picking up the slack and mainly Asian brands...its because we are in AMERICA...and Hertz, Avis, Thrifty, Enterprize, they are American...and GOD DAMN IT...why is it that AMERICANS DONT BUY AMERICAN ANYMORE???!!! I get it...Chrysler, Ford and GM have used that business model trait for soooooo long in the past when they produced junk and dumped all their so called bread and butter cars to rental agencies just to say that they compete with the Asian cars that it has become synonymous to say that rental car fleets equates to struggling car sales because said cars are junk... But in Hyundai's case, I doubt that is the case in 2015...its a smart move by them to gain more exposure when people rent their cars from Thrify and its even more metal they move added to they sales they already make...I highly doubt Hyundai/Kia is relying on rental fleet sales to make the house payments if you know what I mean... I get it that Ford and GM and Chrysler dont ant to re-visit that road again...Im just stating that a car manufacturer that wants to have an additional income source, selling cars to rental fleets is not a bad move... About buying American and American that dont... Sure...the D3 built junk in the 1980s and 1990s....problem is...so did the Germans and the Japanese during that same time frame... The only thing Ill let up on is that some Japanese cars WERE built GREAT in the 1980s and 1990s...the Accord, the Camry, the Civic and Corolla...maybe a Nissan and a Mazda...but the rest were WORSE junk than the American cars!!! And...not that an Accord or Camry did not have any issues either... SO I REPEAT...WHY ARENT AMERICANS MORE PROUD OF THEIR AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY LIKE EUROPEANS ARE???!!! That will forever perplex me...