usonia

Maybe it's just my own paranoia, but I think it's easier for a female to tell a guy his fly is down than another guy. There's always that thought of 'What are you doing looking there anyway?'.

I think they're both great. They would serve two different groups of people. For me, I would get the Rampage. I like the option of being able to carry people and/or stuff. For the light duty kind of things I would need a truck for, the Rampage would be perfect, and I do love the way it looks!!

Situation 1: I'm at the gas station the other day and I see a guy walking towards me in a dark suit with a white shirt so the fact that his fly was open was pretty obvious. I kind of froze because I felt like I should tell him. I would want to be told if it were me, but I just couldn't do it. I was too embarrassed and I felt terrible about it. What would you do? Situation 2: This is a bit different, but kind of the same. I'm at the gym in the locker room getting changed and this older guy comes from the showers and is kind of near me drying off. He's pasty white and he's got his back to me. In the middle of his back, sticking out like a sore thumb is this discolored area about the size of a nickel. It's really weird looking. I've seen pictures because I have a paranoia of getting it myself so I immediately think 'skin cancer'. Then I think, it's in the middle of his back. He may not even be aware that it's there and what if it isn't diagnosed in time? I felt like I should say something but how do you tell a naked guy in a locker room you noticed a weird looking thing in the middle of his back? What would you do?

21 (which is like way off!) but it was tough to be honest for all the questions because some of them didn't have an answer choice I could totally agree with.

In a perverse and sad way, the whole situation is comically absurd, but that is pretty big leap to come to that conclusion!

ocnblu, It's not retarded and it's not a lack of courage on your part. I don't typically offer advice. I know too little about your situation. Even with what you've told us, I wouldn't dare suggest anything about something this personal without all of the details. What I will say is, don't compare yourself to anyone else because no one else's life is exactly like yours. 2 important questions you need to ask yourself are: 1. Why do I want to tell? 2. Am I ready to accept it if it doesn't turn out well? I told my family because I got sick of all of the "How come you aren't seeing anyone?", "Don't you want to get married?", "Don't you want kids?", questions that I got whenever I went home. It just drove me over the edge and I did it in part to get back at them and shut them up. I don't think that was the best reason to tell, and in my case, it didn't turn out so well. I didn't plan it well. I didn't have any gay friends at the time as a support group. I didn't really think about the 'after I told them' part. If I had it to do over, I would have done things differently. I think I probably would have told them at some point, but not when I did. So, if it is causing you a great deal of internal strife and your reasons for telling make sense to you, then you probably should come up with a plan to do it. But do it because you want to, not because you think you ought to. Don't beat yourself up if you decide it isn't the right thing to do. It's your life and your decision and you are the one who will have to live with the choice you make. Best of luck, usonia

Here's a blurb from http://www.andrewsullivan.com He's a senior editor of the "New Republic" among other things. It's interesting: So we now discover that the hideously offensive and blasphemous cartoons - so blasphemous that CNN, the New York Times, and the Washington Post, won't publish them ... were reprinted last October. In Egypt. On the front frigging page. No one rioted. No editor at Al Fager was threatened. So it's official: the Egyptian state media is less deferential to Islamists than the New York Times. So where were the riots in Cairo? This whole affair is a contrived, manufactured attempt by extremist Muslims to move the goal-posts on Western freedom. They're saying: we determine what you can and cannot print; and there's a difference between what Muslims can print and what infidels can print. And, so far, much of the West has gone along. In this, well-meaning American editors have been played for fools and cowards. Maybe if they'd covered the murders of von Gogh and Fortuyn more aggressively they'd have a better idea of what's going on; and stared down this intimidation. The whole business reminds me of the NYT's coverage of the Nazis in the 1930s. They didn't get the threat then. They don't get it now.

I have several dish towels at home that look just like that.

That I don't know, but since it seems everything related to the car turned out to be a disaster for GM, probably not.

A bit of trivia - the Chevy Vega was designed so that the cars could be shipped standing vertically. It was a way to get more vehicles into a rail car to increase efficiencies in shipping.

I love it! When you get right down to it, people are the only thing that truly makes life interesting.

It's interesting you ask the question. Money comes and goes. Conscience stays with you. Since there was something about the situation that prompted you to want to post this, unless you are looking for a rationalization, you already know the answer.

"When does Honda plan to file its lawsuit?" This got me to wondering if it has actually ever happened? Anybody know? Would it be possible to trademark a design as opposed to just a logo? I know Jeep tried to sue Hummer over it's seven slot grille.

Yep, saw it 4 times, got the book, got the book with the movie script in it and got the soundtrack. If you visualize the scenes in the movie to match up with the music as you listen to it (like me) then you know you're officially obsessed.

Yeah, that was a tough one for me. It hit pretty close to home. My dad was always very stern and my mom just quietly put up with it. When he would go off on one of his tirades, she had a way of giving us kids that look so we knew it would pass and all would be ok. When Ennis came back downstairs with the shirts, the look she gave him spoke volumes. It was like she knew the whole story, was happy that her son had known someone who loved him and was glad Ennis had found the shirts. wow.

When I started this thread, I had a bit of a selfish motivation in doing it. I wrote my story partly because it helped me tremendously to put it into words. I was also looking for other people's experiences in hopes that I would find that I wasn't a freak in the way this movie affected me. With that in mind, I posted my story (with some refinedments the more I think about things) in a couple of other places. I have been amazed at the number of incredibly heartfelt emails I have received from other people. I tell you, there is a lot of sadness out there.....

hey ocnblu, I saw the movie for the fourth time yesterday. I'm a glutton for punishment I guess but I won't go into that again. Anyway, in the scene where they have their last argument and Ennis collapses to the ground. He says something as he grabs on to Jack, but I've never been able to quite make it out. It sounds like "I can't do this anymore" or "I can't lose anymore". What's your take on this? I have the book that has the screen play in it, but it doesn't show any dialogue in that spot. thanks

my bad.

Just so there's no confusion, I am gay and have been out for many years, but that isn't the reason I see myself being alone in the future. I'm a realist. On the bell curve of society I'm already on the edges based on my personality. Being gay just makes the pool of people I might "connect" with even smaller. It doesn't make me happy to say that, but it is what it is.

I think it all depends on the individual and what your life experiences have been that determines the depth of involvement you get from this movie. I definitely don't think you have to be gay to 'get it'. Some gay friends of mine had no real reaction to the movie. They liked it and that was about it. For me there was a very personal connection to the story and the characters and I fell off the deep end. Although the movie follows it very closely, you may want to read the (very) short story on which it is based. It does add some details that may not be obvious in the movie. You can search and find it on the internet. I wont go through the entire movie here. I've already overstayed my welcome on this topic but I do want to respond to a couple of things you mentioned. You're right, the movie doesn't overtly show the buildup of their relationship. It really is in the little details. As they spend more time together, you see Ennis become more at ease and more playful around Jack. The most obvious is in their conversations. Ennis barely talks with anyone else, but he opens up about himself with Jack. They even make the joke at one point about how little Ennis has said in two weeks. Jack is definitely the more 'worldly' of the two and it is implied in the written story that his first time with Ennis, wasn't his first time. The first time they have sex, it is abrupt and rough, but that's how it is described in the story too. I didn't assume love was part of it that first time. I think it was more lust. The second time in the tent is more 'loving', but I don't think love became obvious in the movie until the scene where they get word to bring the sheep back down the mountain. Ennis's mood changes quickly and drastically . He knows he'll be off to get married and panic turns to anger because he doesn't want to leave Jack. Jack doesn't go to Mexico until after his trip to see Ennis when his divorce is final. He misunderstands, thinking that Ennis is now ready to be with him but Ennis turns him down. I took it to mean that he went to Mexico out of hurt and anger more than just to get off. Jack was not completely faithful, but if there was no real connection between the two other than sex, it would never have lasted 20 years. I think I read something where Annie Proulx (the author) said the story is about rural homophobia. Out of loneliness or isolation or whatever, Jack and Ennis succumbed to temptation and had sex. The problem for them was that while they were together on the mountain, they unexpectedly fell in love too. Being homophoic themselves, they didn't know how to deal it, especially when their freedom on the mountain came to an end and they had to go back into the world they grew up in that would not let them be together.

Now that you mentioned it, I remember seeing "Far from Heaven". I had forgotten about it. I guess it was OK. It obviously didn't make much of an impression on me.

I have to laugh. Forget all my ramblings, you summed it all up in a few short words and you are exactly right. I felt all of the emotional highs, lows and pain of the characters and then the movie ended and I lost both Jack and Ennis. To go through that emotional roller coaster in two hours and try to process those feelings, for someone like me, was impossible. That's why it took so long for the impact of what I was feeling to hit me...and boy did it hit me!!

"Perhaps 40 years ago gay people led melancholy lives (although in the movie, the latter part of it takes place in the mid-70s and I couldn't understandy why they couldn't just move to New York or California, for Gawd's sake!!!), but that doesn't have to be the case now." Some friends who saw the movie said the same thing. It's a valid question and the answer is in your interpretation of the characters. For me, I can see how Jack would have moved, but not Ennis. I think it showed in the scene of their final meeting on the mountain, where they argue and Jack tells him they could have had a life together but Ennis didn't want it. You see Ennis go through this mental anguish of a person wanting to do the right thing for everyone involved including himself, but seeing no way out. He did want that life more than anything and he didn't want to hurt Jack by saying no, but he already had his children at that point. He loved them and couldn't leave and abandon them. If they stayed and lived together, in his mind one or both of them would be killed. If anything happend to Jack, he couldn't stand knowing he would be partly responsible for that. For him, the only viable option was to continue what they had been doing.

You know, I read this again this morning after posting it last night. It comes off way more melodramatic than I had intended. I probably should have written it and then waited a day for a rewrite before posting. Oh well. That watching a movie could put me through this while other people can see it and not think twice about it just shows how what we see and hear gets filtered through our own life experiences which affects how we perceive everything. I wish I could say something really profound here, but I got nothing....

No, this isn't a review of the movie and it isn't anything telling you whether to see the movie or not. That's up to you. If you haven't seen it, this probably won't make any sense. This is just my experience I had as a result of watching it. You might find it interesting and you might think I'm nuts. It's kind of long. * * * * * I walked out of the theater on Friday night, my body shaking slightly, eyes wet and my throat aching. I had a profound feeling of sadness and confusion. What the hell was going on? Yes it was a sad movie, but I've seen sad movies before and they're just movies! They're not real! I'm not an emotional person and this was just not the normal reaction for me to be having. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I quickly left my friends and went home to bed. I woke up Saturday morning feeling inert. As the day wore on, I went from inert to depressed. I couldn't concentrate on anything, but in the back of my mind, scenes from the movie kept repeating. I stayed home all day, did nothing and went to bed early. I woke up Sunday morning feeling the same as the day before. I had read the story "Brokeback Mountain" weeks earlier, but I felt the need to read it again. It took several attempts between my eyes welling up with tears before I could finally finish it. I didn't feel any better and I was still as confused as before. I went back to the see the movie again Sunday afternoon. Leaving the theater the second time, I felt worse and yet nothing was any more clear to me. What was it about this particular story that was having such an impact on me? I couldn't make any connection between the movie and any person or event from my memory. This made no sense at all. The whole next week, I was pretty much worthless. I couldn't concentrate at work. At home, I was a slug on the sofa watching television, but not really watching it. In the back of my mind, the movie continued to repeat. Frequently, a scene or phrase from the movie would suddenly break into my consciousness. My chest would tighten, my eyes would tear up and I'd have to force myself to think of something else. My cover story at work was that I was coming down with a cold. The following Saturday, I went to see the movie again. This time after it ended, I didn't rush out of the theater. I was on the verge of breaking down so I had to sit there and calm myself. Not having stayed past the end of the movie before, I wasn't aware of the song that plays over the credits. Written by Bob Dylan, Willie Nelson starts to sing: He was a friend of mine He was a friend of mine Every time I think about him now Lord I just can't keep from cryin' 'Cause he was a friend of mine When I heard that first verse, it felt like a wave slammed into me. Verse after verse I kept listening, unsure if I could hold it together. I sat there with my head down breathing slowly. The feeling finally passed and I left the theater. I forced myself to go out to the bars Saturday night to get my mind off everything but it didn't help. I went back home and went to bed. I woke up Sunday morning feeling almost OK. I got out of bed and went to take a shower. I was standing there when I started to shake. From nowhere, the scene towards the end of the movie, where Ennis comes up behind Jack and puts his arms around him appeared in my mind. At that same instant, I knew the description of that scene from the story as if I were reading it to myself, "What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was that time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.....Later that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate difficult lives." Whatever had been building up inside me had finally forced its way out. All of those times the previous week, where I had almost cried but didn't, couldn't be stopped now. I slumped against the wall, water from the showerhead streaming down my back and tears streaming down my face. My chest was heaving out great sobs of grief, sadness and loneliness. Even being alone, I felt embarrassed by what was happening to me. At the same time I was angry for not understanding why but my mind was assembling everything to lay out in front of me. I knew this wasn't just from the past week, this stretched back many years. I have no idea how long I stood there before I realized I had stopped crying. I was hesitant to move for fear that I would start up again but at this point, I felt calm. I dried off, got dressed and went and sat on the sofa to think and put it all together. I went to see the movie one last time. Needless to say, I left a mess, but I understood. There are things I know, things I feel, and things I don't like to admit to myself. They don't often intersect. From as far back as I can remember, I have felt disconnected from the people around me. I am lucky to have a small circle of friends, a few who are very close to me. I care about them all a great deal, but even with my closest friends and family my feelings for them don't go very deep. I don't tell them that of course and I guess it sounds terrible, but that's the way it is. I don't know how to explain this "disconnected" feeling. It isn't something I do, it's just there and carries with it a sense of a loneliness that is always with me. I've never experienced love towards another person. (Parents don't count in this case.) I've met people I've been very physically attracted to, but never had a strong emotional feeling for. So, I remain detached and just accept all this as part of the makeup of my personality. I've learned to live with it. To love and to want to be loved are the most basic and powerful of human emotions, but not for me. Maybe for weaker people, but not me. That's what I always told myself. Like it says in the Paul Simon song, "I am a rock, I am an island". I had to prepare myself for the possibility that there would never be anyone else. It might only ever be me that I had to depend on. I told myself this for years until I believed it and it all fit in perfectly with my personality. Then I saw "Brokeback Mountain" and it all fell apart. What affected me so deeply about this movie was watching the relationship develop between Jack and Ennis. The gradual build up from their first meeting to becoming friends to lovers to soul mates was incredible for me. To watch them when they see each other again after four years, I felt like I finally knew what it would be like to really connect with someone. How could I not want this? To imagine someone who could reach deep inside you and push out the feeling of loneliness is something I just don't have words to describe. Of course, the tragedy is that it couldn't last. The characters became painfully real to me. I was swept along with the story even though I knew what was coming. As I watched their lives continue into despair with brief moments of happiness, it was as though the happiness I felt imagining what it must be like to truly love someone and they you, was being torn from me. I felt a range of emotions from watching this movie I have never experienced before. I grieved for the characters and I grieve for myself because I am all too aware of reality It's been two weeks since I first saw this movie. I am still unsettled by the feelings I am left with but at least now I understand them. For anyone who reads this that has met someone they love, I envy you. For those of us who have not been as fortunate, I wish I could offer something beyond saying I finally know how you feel. Life is a crap shoot. We don't choose who we are attracted to and we can't make someone be attracted to us. There may be someone out there for everyone, but not all of us will ever meet them. As for me, I fear I won't be one of the lucky ones. I know the odds of meeting my Jack or Ennis and they aren't good. A long time ago, I convinced myself of the possibility I would end up living my life alone. For a person with my type of personality, I thought that was the logical thing to do. I still do. Seeing this movie at least now allows me to admit to myself how much I don't want it to be true and that isn't a weakness. I know it is still a very real possibility and just wanting something doesn't make it happen. I can't fix that, so I may have to stand it. I hope I'm strong enough.