Hudson

I've never heard of this practice going brand-wide, but I've heard of dealers doing it. My favorite was in the early 1990s where some Cadillac dealers would offer a free Yugo (many Yugo dealers were dualed with Cadillac dealers for some reason) if you bought a Cadillac.

As has been explained before, knowing about cars does not make you a better car salesman.

Make excuses if you want. The Element is a two-door just like an extended cab pickup is essentially a two-door; it should be viewed that way. If you want a four-door Honda crossover, it's called CRV. Making the Element a two-door with access panels does two things...it makes a two-door SUV (-like vehicle) practical and it takes the Element out of competition with the CRV.The Element isn't designed to haul people around. It's for people with an "active lifestyle" where they haul stuff...bikes or snowboards or whatever. If you're hauling people on a regular basis, get the CRV. And you NEED to compare 2wd to 2wd because the HHR and the PT Cruiser and xB aren't offered with AWD. MY POINT, if you cared to notice, was that there's more to comparing crossovers than just simple statistics. The Element has more interior space...it's offered with AWD...and it's not aimed at the buyer of an HHR or PT Cruiser. My numbers were slightly off on cargo, but your numbers are WILDLY off on other things. A 3,100 lb vehicle with a 3,500 lb payload capacity? Try 900lbs (source: GM). STANDARD horsepower on the HHR is 143hp compared to the Element's 156hp (source: GM and Edmunds). Cost of ownership and depreciation, especially on a vehicle that's been on the market only ONE YEAR is an estimate; let's talk about that one again in two years.

K-cars were great in their day. The 84hp of the 2.2L 2bbl engine wasn't bad, in the day...especially if you were fortunate (unfortunate) enough not to have A/C or power anything. With a manual, it moved out briskly for its time. And with its mid-sized interior, it was a far better value than any other $6,000 car in 1982.As for the safety...I can vouch for that. I hit a deer square in the front and while the plastic parts (grille, headlight benzels) had to be replaced and some metal needed to be straightened, I drove it about 100 miles to the shop that did the work. And one other accident I had would have probably ejected me through the windshield had I not been wearing my seatbelt, but the car drove away and had no significant damage to the car itself. It was reliable as well. Nearly 100,000 miles with very few problems while I owned it. I'd buy back today if I could find MY car.

We prefer "earth tones."

Let's see...a president and vice president who worked for (or in the case of the veep, still generates an income from) the oil industry. We have record high prices for gasoline...and huge WEEKLY gains in the price of gas. We have a domestic oil industry that has or will this week announce record or near record profits from the first quarter of 2006. Coincidence? And $100 is coming to us to help? Really? They think that will help? I spend $100 more than I used to on gas in just two months.

I can walk into nearly any car dealership in the US (as can most people on this site) and be guarranteed to know more about the cars (new or used) on lot than the salespeople there. I've known this since I was a kid. I took a buddy to a car dealership years ago and as we were leaving, my buddy was laughing. I asked why and he said that it was because I corrected the salesperson, three times, on their own product. But I'm not a salesperson, and that takes a special kind of person...one who doesn't necessarily need to know more about the product than the people he/she is selling to. I've tried to sell cars and I'm not good at it. I'm among the best at TALKING about cars, but I am among the WORST at selling them.

Sigh....Just because it's a "small crossover" it's on a level playing field with everything else in this "miscellaneous" category? The Honda Element which is basically a two-door SUV-like vehicle gets slammed by you because it has "poorly-designed" rear doors that allow far more access than, say, a two-door Chevrolet Tracker did? And the AWD Element, as you've pointed out, gets basically the same gas mileage as the SMALLER and TWO-WHEEL DRIVE HHR? The Element has nearly 20% more interior space available and you're bashing it because the AWD model gets 2 mpg (city) worse than the HHR in an EPA test? C'mon.

Styling is a personal thing, so saying that the Yaris is unattractive relative to the Rio or Accent is your opinion...and you are entitled to it. I CANNOT defend the styling of the Camry, as I may be the biggest foe of it. But Toyota is making styling a larger priority than it had been. And I'm sure the Camry will sell even with that horrendous nose.The argument (targeted at the person who posed it) for "days to turn" in favor of my prefered measure of inventory may be a bone of contention. I don't see how dealers can be sitting on 85 days worth of Tahoes and claim that it takes 20 days to turn one over. Wouldn't there be less inventory? I'll make the same argument against the 34-days to turn for the Sequoia when inventory sits at 57 days. GM's styling is doing much better. As for interiors, like your Yaris-Echo comparison (and your GMT900-GMT800 comparison), they had much room for growth. I hope that the interior of the production Aura is far superior than the pre-production model I saw at NYIAS; the trim on the door, for example, seemed unfinished...I really hope it's just the pre-production quailty and not a final product issue. Toyota and Honda have ALWAYS had recalls. Every car company does. The biggest difference comes in how the manufacturer and dealers deal with it. As Toyota has grown, they're experiencing many of the same problems GM and Ford have faced with the trouble watching every vehicle as it leaves the factory. But even with this increase in volume and recalls, it's all on how you deal with it. Quality surveys continue to put Toyota at or near the top. One problem I have with some of these surveys is that it rates each vehicle in a vacuum. Each owner compares each vehicle to itself or, perhaps to the other vehicles the owner has or had owned. If, for example, a domestic owner has only had domestics, he/she might think that certain problems are "usual" (how many dealers have you heard say that? And there have to be owners out there who BELIEVE that or they wouldn't continue to say it). Now how many first-time import car owners have you met who have raved about the quality of their cars? I've seen many postings on this and other sites saying just that. This theory of mine (I have yet to do any surveys myself) puts import-brands on an artificially higher plane just because a few relatively minor things were done right on these vehicles when compared to a previously owned car (in many cases, a domestic-brand vehicles). And this actually artificially raises the domestic-brand's quality ratings as well. I don't know which is pumped up more. Back to the point, Toyota is having some growing pains, but they have GM and Ford and Chrysler to learn from. If nothing else, I think we can agree that the Japanese car companies learn very well. And they had better learn from previous missteps because the Koreans and Chinese and Indians are right behind them.

Ask him about the time he tried to land without putting down the landing gear on his MiG!

I think you're looking for a problem where there isn't one. Keep looking, but I don't think you've made the argument.Toyota is actually IMPROVING their designs. They know (and have acknowledge pubilcly) that their styling is among their weaknesses. They are making strides to improve that area. The argument has already been made against your SUV arguments. The Sequoia had a 34 day supply? That's VERY good. And when you compare to GM's SUVs which haven't been out long enough to have fully filled the inventory and the demand is high to be the first on the block to own one. Let's see where the demand and inventory is NEXT year when Ford updates their trucks...and Toyota's truck will be updated. And I'm not seeing the GM improvement you're mentioning. If they can stop the market share slide for two years, then we can talk.

That's not what it looks like from the website. It seems to be the Astra-derived Brazilian Vectra and not the Epsilon-derived German Vectra.

Isn't the Chevrolet Vectra from Brazil? And isn't it different from the German Opel Vectra?

I think if NASCAR wasn't deceased 10 years ago, they were atleast on their deathbed. I don't know why more people didn't see NASCAR as marketing tool and not a sport earlier.I haven't followed NASCAR since the 1980s.

Yes, but did you have a vinyl bench seat? Metal dashboard? Four-speed manual? Your car wasn't cool unless you met THESE criteria!

Now I have to come up with three things?Mine didn't have a maplight...or two speakers....or FM. Mine did, however, have 84(!) hp, standard! And it DID make me cool. It had to....no A/C.

The Panoz AIV (aluminum intensive vehicle) roadster was based on a design built in Europe in the 1980s. It went out of production when side-impact (and airbag, I believe) legislation made it no longer marketable in the US.

NO mention of Pontiac and Zeta.

Talk of a Pontiac Zeta in North America has become kinda quiet.

Hmmm....

Excellent question. One for which I have no answer.

Who said it's not Zeta?

Like your wager about Wilmington, I wouldn't be so quick to bet on the next generation DTS or Lucerne going to Hamtramck. It's currently not in the plan.

I have no new news about product at Wilmington...but GM's anticiapating over 500,000 units of Zetas in Oshawa (it'll be revised combining Oshawa 1 and Oshawa 2).As for Hamtramck getting Zeta, that's outdated information.

The products for Oshawa are just about set. It's only four vehicles at the moment.