evok

http://www.freep.com/pdf/2005/gm_uaw.pdf Details of the deal. And what a piss poor deal it is. The biggest changes for current workes is there is an $18 co pay for Viagra. I am for realigning GM's health care obligations but it appears the UAW gave up nothing. The retirees got screwed in this one with current worker giving up nothing of real world significance to the company. Aweful. This is more smoke and mirrors negotiating.

That was just a summary of ODI's finding. NHTSA's website published more material from the investigation but is a pain in the neck to go through and link. If I get time later I will dig into it further. The warranty claims should be burried on the site somewhere.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../A01-356532.htm Granted, this is good news but GM should have further negotiated with the UAW to put current workers on the same health care program as their white collar staff. Yes this deal is historic and probably very tough though not far enough. But that might have been out of scope of the negotiations. They did not go far enough.

Your statements are confusing. I provided a link with NHTSA's determination of the Prius issue. NHTSA did not determine that the issue was safety related though Toyota took action to correct 2 problems that lead to the gas engine to stall.

BrewSwillis your thoughts?

Last February I was the first to post of the styling direction of the 322 CTS. What I was told at the time was the car is instantly recognizable as a CTS, but smoother, edgier and more sophisticated at the same time. When the PM and MT photos were published I stated from my sources, the general them is correct but those photos were characatures of the real vehicle. The real car is not that cartoonish. Read into that what you will.

Yes and we see what happened to the Yankees the last couple years without them. I am just glad the Sox are in it. Not a fan but at least it makes the series interesting. Maybe a curse will be lifted 2 years in a row.

You assume GMI and Tahoe over there knows what they are talking about? The photo that was posted was a chop. Anyone with any common sense and curiosity would know that much.

It appears that there are two issues that caused the battery drain issue. 1) software. 2) h20 in an electrical connection. After reviewing this document it appears it is not a NHTSA safety recall but a service campaign. http://199.79.180.162/prepos/files/Artemis...05029-22129.PDF BrewSwillis, your thoughts?

Ford has already tried to get Goshn and Zetsche and failed. Someone from Toyota or Honda would not succeed. Slow and stead are not the change agents GM needs. Believe it or not, there is no one that I am aware of that is more qualified within GM to run the company right now other than Wagoner. He might be getting bad press right now, but they are working on the structural problems. Only when the Lutz product finially gets to market will we see if GM and Wagoner can pull it off. GM has a lot of baggage that simply can not be thrown out over night.

Really what is a company, be it any company to say. Obviously there is a problem that their customers appear to be ignoring and getting stuck. I think the language of the PR is very poor but companies have their reasons for taking such action. How do you say we screwed up and our customers are stupid? Companys pull the trigger and spend a couple million dollars fixing the problem through a recall than face potential litigation down the road either through class action suits or those from ambulance chasers. Also their is a customer satisfaction issue at stake particulary image consious companies like Toyota. Better than bad press of denying or ignoring a problem. I am sure Toyota does not want another sludge issue to rise again.

Of course no one here actually choose to look into the Prius "Stalling" recall. Yes there is a glitch in the Prius powertrain so I will not skirt around that. The driveability issue in talking with Toyota is the gas engine kicks off. A warning light alerts the driver that the batteries are not being charged. The driver chooses to ignor the warning and proceeds to drive under battery power only. There is about a 20 mile or so range. Instead of pulling over or going directly to a dealer or service station the driver goes along their merry way. In the end the vehicle looses power and stalls because the batteries have no more power. Sort of sound like running out of gas to me! I definitly can see Larry David doing this. This would make for a great Curb Your Enthusiasm episode.

To be replaced by who?

In hindsight GM should have bit the bullet and filed for Chapter 11 back in 1991-1992 when they were really hours away from really being bankrupt and having a real negative cash flow. That would have allowed them to spin off Hughs, EDS and Delphi cleanly. DPH would not be under court protection today because a separate company with its own contract could have been established without fear of the UAW. This would have also allowed GM to shutter the factories without negotiating with the UAW. The Stemple UAW contract where the jobs bank and pay to sit at home was created would have been axed. The retirement program for the UAW members would have been brought in line with the white collar staff. But the BOD, Smith and company tried to work around the problems. Hindsight is so over rated! Anybody can look back and point finger!

Tell Uncle Bob I said hi next time you two go for a cigar break. ha ha We still need to talk.

I went back and reread your initial post and apologize for my reaction. To answer the rest of your questions. What the hell crawled up your ass? - Actually something did. A few on this board should know why. Obviously you won't know. But others do. And what crawled up it was partially directed at you and it should not have. As for the people that know, they should know why. Hate to be cryptic but as always I have to be. As for your other question, I posted earlier as to what is going to happen to the mid sized BOF market. Different demographics for mid sized and full sized market. In GM's case, market will shift to lambda vehicles over time.

I would not say the BOF market will go away but the days of GM selling 20 - 30k Trailblazers a month are over or soon will be over and that the lambda programs will in the near future replace the GMT360+ as the volume leader in the midsized suv segment. As a result, serious investment into the GMT-361 is not going to happen beyond a minor freshening. The midsized SUV market is more susceptible to the price of gas. And if gas continues to hoover around current level, it begins to hit people in the pocket book and people will begin to transition to vehicles with greater fuel economy first and a vehicle with comparable capabilites second. Lambda and theta are the future because they will have the fuel economy improvements and suv like features (ride height, awd and storage).

When the Prius actually does get 60 hwy and 51 city in the EPA test cycle. There is no difference to advertising the 5 star in the governments NCAP or Insurance Institute's crash test, when they might not truly represent the real world either.

I am just pointing out that no one here knows the current direction of the 361 program. Whatever information/rumours that has been passed along is wrong and that the 361 program has changed since the analyst preview in July. Some people here are talking in absolutes. And that is wrong also. The information is bad and misleading.

#1 Blame your government for the EPA test certification. The US government defines the test. #2 Prior there was no agreed upon the standard. Your post are as misleading as to what you want others to believe about your OPINION on Toyota. Ignorance is endless.

Information since the analyst preview has changed.

Don't you know how to read? GM is not going to invest a lot of resourses into a market that is seriously retrenching. Look at sales, the market is evolving. 3 bucks a gallon for gas is not going to sustain or maintain growth in the mid sized BOF suv market.

I would not talk about things you do not know about! At this point the future of these vehicles is under review.

Exactly!

WYSIWYG NOT- Plans change.