evok

I agree - a lot more evenly match then expected by the media.

Turbo200 - Thanks for getting us back on topic. I spoke over at GM today briefly and it is still hitting the fan. I did not have time to get specifics but I was told it is ugly. One thing people must realize is that contrators at GM do the same job as GM employees. At one time app. 50% of GM engineering was contract. And over the past few year, GM has very quietly laid off about 15,000 contractors that have not been added to GM's real head count reduction numbers. Contractors were expenses and not head count employees. From a job perspective, there was no difference between a direct hire and a contractor. In a meeting the only way you could tell a difference was my looking at the badge. So, what I am saying is, when GM lays off contractors it is just about the same as them laying off direct employees.

Motor Trend does not know what they are talking about.

I agree but I think the biggest difference between a tradition station wagon and a crossover/suv is the higher seating position in the crossover/suv. The H-Point (hip height) is higher off the ground.

ehaase is nice like that.

I always thought the EXT's buttress whould be solid and not have the triangular hole to differntiate it between the Ave. Plus it would give it a more A&S look.

If he were smart, he would just take the 5th!

This more LaNeve babble. If it were not for the Employee Pricing in June and July, GM would still be sitting on the full size and midsize pick ups and utilities they had in inventory. One word, Katrina! We saw what that did to truck sales.

I guess CD/BP was right, you are one child that was left behind. Just in case you are not aware, he elluded to the No Child Left Behind Act! That Act of Congress was an education Bill. It seems as CD/BP points out, the US education system left you behind. Let me point out, because it seems you never full grapsed the Constitution from your high school civics class the First Ammendment, that freedom of the press is a civil right in the US. Jounalism is a fancy word for the press in case you do not understand. CD/PB and myself were taking bets as to how long it would take for you to chime in on this thread. I lost that bet. I was betting that you would be off topic. I never expected you would be way way off topic.

Well I have found her recent article very good reporting since: #1 GM did not issue a public Press Release and #2 I verified and it is accurate and people are being walked out of the VEC at this very moment.

Josh: She is only reporting what is going on as we speak. I was just told people are being walked out the door of the VEC as I type this. Contract and direct workers with less than 10 years of seniority are the focus. What I find interesting is how all of this coincides with the cancellation of a bunch of programs toward the end of last year.

That is what happens when they are over rated and Texas and ND being the only real teams they played all year.

I said in their fleet, not in development.

Then why do you continue to make matters worse?

I must of miss something - ha ha No problem to what ever I missed. I just wanted to summarize what I read into your post and thought you were elluding to as GM's poor communications skills.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060104/law094.html?.v=33 American Honda Posts Ninth Consecutive Year of Record Sales in 2005 Wednesday January 4, 2:36 pm ET Strong Civic and Ridgeline Sales Push Honda to Its Best Sales Year Ever, Acura Breaks 200,000 Mark for the First Time TORRANCE, Calif., Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- American Honda Motor Co., Inc., today announced record sales results for both its Honda and Acura Divisions, pushing American Honda to another all-time record year in 2005. With sales up 5.2 percent to 1,462,472 vehicles, the results mark the company's 12th consecutive year of sales increases. American Honda December sales totaled 132,800 vehicles and light-truck sales of 65,894 jumped 14.1 percent over last year to set a new record for the month. 2005 American Honda sales highlights: * All-time record American Honda total sales of 1,462,472 (up 5.2 percent) * 12th consecutive annual sales increase * Ninth consecutive yearly sales record * All-time record light truck sales of 624,650 (up 13.7 percent) * 13th consecutive year of record light-truck sales "We are enjoying strong, consistent car sales and good growth in our light-truck segments," said Dick Colliver, executive vice president of American Honda. "And we expect this trend to continue in 2006 as we enter new segments and introduce new versions of some of our most popular models." Honda Division posted new all-time December and year-end records, driven by all-time record sales of Pilot and Ridgeline and record December sales of Civic, Odyssey and Element. Up 5.1 percent in 2005 to 1,252,862 vehicles, Honda Division sales posted its 12th consecutive year of increases. "Despite fierce competition in a declining segment, sales of the all-new Civic continue to post gains," said Colliver. "In addition, with best-ever monthly sales of more than 6,500 units, Ridgeline posted sales gains in 10 of the last 11 months to finish the year on target." With Civic Hybrid sales up 1.5 percent to 25,864 for the calendar year and the addition of the Accord Hybrid, sales of Honda hybrid vehicles rose to a new record of 43,356 vehicles for the year. December sales of Honda's three hybrid models increased to 3,290 units. 2005 Honda Division sales highlights: * All-time record Honda Division sales of 1,252,862 (up 5.1 percent) * 12th consecutive annual sales increase * Fourth consecutive year of record light-truck sales at 566,702 (up 15.7 percent) * Record full-year sales of Pilot, CR-V, Civic Hybrid and Odyssey * Best sales month ever for Pilot and Ridgeline With record sales of the RL, TL and TSX luxury performance sedans, the Acura Division posted a new all-time record result for the full calendar year. In 2005, Acura sales in 2005 rose 5.7 percent over last year's record to 209,610 cars and SUVs, breaking the 200,000-unit mark for the first time. Acura posted record December sales for TSX and TL. Consumer information is available at www.honda.com

In many way you hit part of GM's structural issues right on the head. But that is one aspect of the organization that has been resolved and will take a few years until most of the old Pre-Lutz vehicles make there way out of the fleet. The disjointed nature of the fleet can be mainly attributed to multitute of vehicle develoment organizations GM had in NA which have been consoldated. How this relates to your article is that I could get into any GM vehicle and within seconds tell you where development took place. Meaning if the vehicle was a product of Pontiac, Lansing, CLCD Flint, Mid Lux Warren, Saturn Troy. This was based upon interior material selection, plastic graining, fit and finish, part design etc. Each organization had different specification. I am refering to vehicles and not brands. Well today, GM has 1 Development organization with consistent specification so all of their vehicles coming out now should have a more consistent feel and theme. So to answer the points you bring up in your thread, GM will be more like VW and Audi across the board. Not just in NA but across the globe. But I assure you it will take time. Get people within NA to agree on specifications takes time, getting people across the globe to agree will take even more time.

Say what you will about the styling, but there is a market for bold and I will bet the ranch that Chrysler would sell more Imperials than Cadillac STSs at the same price. And without 399/mnt leases.

It is speculation that the Saturn Ion is moving to Europe for development. There has been no solid info as to the future of GMX002.

Case in point. Based upon this analyst, his price estimates for GM stock would make the company worth app. 6 billion. All I have to say is hedge funds, have fun at GMs expense. GM shares fall after brokerage cuts target price Reuters Automotive News / January 3, 2006 - 12:00 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Advertisement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DETROIT -- Shares of General Motors fell nearly 5 percent on Tuesday after Banc of America Securities cut its target price for the automaker's stock. The brokerage firm lowered the target price to $13 from $16, citing lower savings from GM's recent health-care agreement with the United Auto Workers union. That would represent a fall of an additional 33 percent this year for GM's stock, which was one of the worst performers in the Standard & Poor's 500 index in 2005, dropping almost 52 percent. The shares were down 74 cents, or 3.8 percent, at $18.68 in morning trade on the New York Stock Exchange after falling as low as $18.47 earlier in the session. GM's decline weighed on the blue-chip Down Jones industrial average. GM has said the health-care pact, endorsed by the union in October, will cut its health-care expenses by $3 billion annually before taxes, and reduce its hourly health-care liability by 25 percent, or by about $15 billion. "GM's estimate of a $15 billion reduction in the health-care liability, due to the agreement, assumes the agreement lasts in perpetuity," Banc of America analyst Ron Tadross said in a note to clients. "Apparently, the agreement ends in 2011," he said. The eventual savings from the deal will be only about $7 billion before taxes, he said. Calls to GM spokesmen were not immediately returned. GM shares have been under pressure as the company struggles with high health-care and commodities costs, loss of U.S. market share to foreign rivals, and sinking sales of SUVs, its long-time profit generators. The world's largest automaker lost nearly $4 billion through the first nine months of 2005. Moreover, the shares have been falling steadily since news of the sale of 12 million GM shares by billionaire Kirk Kerkorian's investment arm, Tracinda Corp., last month. Tracinda reduced its stake in the company to 7.8 percent from 9.9 percent, citing income tax savings. Banc of America also cut its target price for Ford Motor Co. shares to $7 from $8, but raised its target price for Toyota Motor Corp. to $113 from $110. Ford shares were off 4 cents at $7.68.

Your wrong - GM needs to get their bread and butter Cadillac models up to world class levels before venturing into more niche territories. Cadillac has come a long way in 5 years - but they still have a long road ahead.

Let me summarize - Poor corporate communications.

GM's biggest problem as a corporation that they can not seem to fix comes down to one historic problem: Lack of corporate communication. The product will take time to work out, the organization can be sorted through but for whatever reason GM can not explain why it does what it does or gets itself in the situations they get themselves into. GM lacks transparency, that is their biggest, f'ing problem. If they could explain to the world what the hell is going on, their stock would not be trading at under $20 a share. For a company that has app. 200 million in sales, they might have a market cap greater then Wholefoods Grocery Stores if they were able to communicate their story instead of leaving everyone to speculate what their issues are. GM's communications sux...... they leave it up to unautomotive educated pundits and Wall St. analysts to pick through their PRs to speculate on the corporate undertakings. That is the problem. Good product can not make up for that.

It depends on how you count the cost, each has its advantages and disadvantages. From a piece cost, you are correct, but TP and SMC have lower tooling cost and higher cycle times. SMC is heavy where TP is light. It all depends on where you sink the cost but generally plastic is good for low volume where cycle times are not an issue and you do not want to sink a lot of money into tooling. Personally, the hydroformed body panels used on the kappa cars is the process of the future for low volume. The TP on the Saturn were a misguided mistake. Cycle times too long for high volume vehicle and the quick styling updates were not feasible.

The type of plastic used on the Saturn differs from what is used on the Vette. The Vette uses SMC or sheet molded compound where the Saturn uses a thermoplastic. The plastics are different and it is like comparing apples to oranges.