evok

The symbolism is now complete...only one thing left to do.

Yes - exactly.

Do the math, 30 months. You might want to go back and actually read my post on the subject. You might learn something. http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...opic=4807&st=40

Now York can see the books. The info that is not made public. His tone will change.

Doesn't mean they would get hired. Toyota is too savy for that. As for the AN article. Lets call a spade a spade. The article is based upon Cole's opinion.

Nothing was said that was not already on the table since the summer of 05.

There will be restyling and tweaking if the vehicle gets the go ahead once the vehicle surfacing goes through a formability study. 18 to 24 months, starting from when? Don't hold your breath. Earliest it will be out is in the 3rd quarter 08. That is not much comfort. I think the feeling within the General is more big picture than a name plate. Too early to tell. That sums it up and even that is uncertain.

Thanks for the reply. That was what I was looking for.

Potential. There is a potential for any thing. That is where your logic is flawed. Let's be realistic. The average age of a GM UAW worker is about 50 years old.

Granted this whole thread is speculation, but Toyota would not be hiring older GM workers. They would interview 20/30 somethings as is their past practice. The unemployed in Flint are not unemployed autoworker.

http://www.decaturdailydemocrat.com/articl...editorial03.txt http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_astec_leads_delphi Tear down used to be called the Mona Lisa. It was started in the 1980s by Alex Meir(sp).

Very few since most ex-auto workers are most likely retired and those on the cusp will soon be retired. I can speak to that. I would have to say no different than where Toyota or other transplants have put new plants. High pressure job? For the same reason Toyota built a truck plant in Texas. Any ex-GM/Delphi workers in Flint are retired. Those are the only type of ex-GM/Dephi workers there are. Toyota would start with a fresh pool of YOUNG potential talent. A pool that they could train and mold to their system. They have done it elsewhere.

I do not know if you have seen what Buick City looks like these days, there is not much to purchase beside rubble. And no where did I say purchase an existing Big 3 facility. Greenfield would be the way to go from a cost perspective anyway. Yes a place like Flint has a long history with the UAW, but do you honestly think Toyota would hire many ex-GM/Dephi workers. With Flint running at an app 14% unemployment rate, there is a large population to draw upon.

"I say it is a mute point and Toyota is savy enough to work around that (UAW)." Isn't that what I wrote. I actually put that statement in their just for YOU so we would not get on some UAW/Toyota tangent. Getting back to the point of the thread, if rumours are true, it may appear that Toyota is seriously thinking about putting a plant in the UAW stronghold. That does not mean the plant will be UAW. From their 20+ year NUMMI experience, Toyota is aware of what the UAW has to offer.

I am not seeking comments on, if the Toyota plant is a good idea, or if Toyota will sleep with the UAW in MI. I opened this thread for verification.

For the past six months I have been hearing rumors of a Toyota plant being discussed in the Flint, MI area. First I have heard that the GM Buick City site might be the location for either a Toyota General Assembly plant and more recently and probably more likely an Engine Plant. I write this, with the understanding that there has been lobbying by the UAW for Toyota to put something in Wixom. The rumors I first heard were prior to the Wixom efforts. Recently I have been hearing more and more chatter for a Flint site. I write this with the understanding that some will comment that Toyota will not sleep with the UAW, particularly the Flint UAW. I say it is a mute point and Toyota is savy enough to work around that. Toyota already deals with the UAW at NUMMI. Toyota as we have seen with the new Texas truck plant is going to put the work where they want the customers. Toyota wants the midwest. Also, Flint and Michigan needs work and Flint may be an ideal location. And the state and local government know it and I am sure if the rumors are in fact real, will do everything in their power to attract Toyota. What better way for Toyota to creat good will for their product than to employ, especially in an economically depressed area.

This also could be that top secret small rwd program the Fastlane elluded to. You know the Pontiac 1 Series.

Sorry but you really do not know what you are talking about. Yes, I am sure for entry level positions salarys will drop at HQ, but for the most part they will be the same or to fill the void they will go up in the short term. I have seen some of the packages they are good. Second, for Nissan's salary staff, they have not offered pensions for new hires in years. The same goes for the US big 3. Nashville will give Nissan a good central location between Japan and Paris. And I am sure the property taxes that will be saved has a lot to do with with. Is it really worth millions to have a HQ in CA with todays electronic infrastructure.

Of course the data has to looked at in light of the merits of the issue and data source The Center for Highway Safety also has their own complaint database which is open to the public and should reviewed as such. My point is the, this whole thread is a waste of time, especially if the few complaints originally posted are taken out of context and spun. Because as I have shown I can point out a real problem and show an actual trend. PS: The G6 uses the electric steering system that NHTSA investigated on the Malibu which lead to a Customer Satisfaction Campaign to correct the problem.

Not 30 mpg, more like 25mpg.

Yea, I would dismiss all the power steering compaints also!

Substancial? Well just going through the NHTSA complaint on the G6. This is about 1/2 of them in their system. But upon review, looks to me like something is brewing with the power steering. Things can go both ways! Pontiac 2005 G6 PURCHASED PONTIAC G6 GT IN APRIL 2005 SINCE FALL OF 2005 STEERING COLUMN HAS LOCKED UP NUMEROUS TIMES FOR 2 SEC INTERVALS. HAVE TAKEN IT BACK 5 TIMES FOR THIS TILL THEY REPLACED STEERING COLUMN. AS OF TODAY 1/11/06 IT WAS DROPPED OFF AT THE DEALERSHIP AGAIN FOR THE SAME PROBLEM ALONG WITH BRAKE PEDAL AND PANELS AROUND IT RATTLING. CAR ONLY HAS 13,800 MILES ON IT. Pontiac 2005 G6 STEERING LOCKS UP. DEALERSHIP HAS ATTEMPTED TO FIX IT 3-4 TIMES TO KNOW SUCCESS. WHEN STEERING LOCKS THERE IS NO WAY TO STEER THE CAR. THIS HAS HAPPENED TO ME ATLEAST 20 TIMES OVER THE PAST 3 MONTHS. 3 TIMES I HAVE ALMOST PUT THE CAR IN A DITCH, DROVE INTO ONCOMING TRAFFIC AND DROVE INTO A 4 FOOT HIGH SNOW BANK. Pontiac 2005 G6 I WAS MAKING A SHARP LEFT TURN IN A PARKING LOT. THE CAR STALLED AND THE STEERING LOCKED UP FOR A COUPLE OF SECONDS. I SAW THAT THE RPMS HAD DROPPED TO ZERO. EVERYTHING CAME BACK ON AND I CONTINUED. A VERY FUNNY AND SCARY FEW SECONDS. Pontiac 2005 G6 NEWLY PURCHASED 2005 PONTIAC G6 4 DOOR SEDAN; HAVE HAD 4 FAILURES OF POWER STEERING. DEALER REPLACED POWER STEERING MOTOR; POWER STEERING FAILED AGAIN; TAKEN BACK TO DEALER, DEALER FOUND C0176 SYS THERMAL ERROR, REMOVED AND REPLACED POWER STEERING CONTROL MODULE; POWER STEERING FAILED AGAIN. DEALER NOW STATES THAT 1 TIRE MAY BE UNDERINFLATED CAUSING POWER STEERING TO FAIL. DEALER UNABLE TO EXPLAIN WHY POWER STEERING FAILS. CAR HAS HAD TO BE TOWED TWICE. Pontiac 2005 G6 VEHICLE SHUT OFF WHILE DRIVING, WOULD NOT START, WOULD NOT STEER TO SAFETY. EXTENSIVE SMOKING, BURNT SMELL. VEHICLE WAS WIRED INCORRECTLY WHICH CAUSED A FUSE TO BLOW. INSULATION TO THE A/C DESTROYED AND STARTER BLEW. NEW WIRES ROUTED CORRECTLY, NEW FUSE AND NEW STARTER. PLEASE NOTE I WAS ON A SIDE STREET WHEN THIS OCCURRED. IF BY CHANCE I WAS ON A BUSY STREET, IT COULD HAVE BEEN FATAL. I WAS ALSO INFORMED BY THE MECHANIC, MY G6 WAS THE SECOND IN TWO DAYS WITH THE INCORRECT WIRING. Pontiac 2006 G6 VEHICLE WAS PURCHASED IN AUGUST AND HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS SINCE. WHEN TEMPERATURE IS COLD, BELOW 30 DEGREES F, STABILITRAK DOES NOT WORK AND MESSAGE IS DISPLAYED IN MESSAGE CENTER. WHEN TEMP IS ABOVE 30, STABILITRAK WORKS FINE. WITHOUT TRACTION SYSTEM, VEHICLE SLIDES OVER THE ROAD, LOSING TRACTION VERY EASILY. Pontiac 2005 G6 STEERING INTERMITTENTLY "LOCKING-UP" WHILE DRIVING. TWICE WHILE DRIVING I HAVE TURNED MY WHEEL TO THE RIGHT WITH IT 'LOCKING-UP" AFTER ONLY ABOUT AN 1/8 OF A TURN. WOULD NOT BUDGE EITHER WAY FOR APPROXIMATELY 2-3 SECONDS, AFTER WHICH IT BEGAN WORKING NORMALLY. THIS HAS BEEN REPORTED TO THE SERVICE MANAGER AT MY LOCAL PONTIAC DEALERSHIP AS WELL AS A CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE AT GM. Pontiac 2005 G6 DT: THE CONSUMER STATED WITH NO WARNING LIGHTS THE VEHICLE STALLED. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE DEALERSHIP MULTIPLE TIMES, BUT THEY WERE UNABLE TO DIAGNOSE THE PROBLEM. THE VEHICLE WILL START IMMEDIATELY AFTER STALLING. Pontiac 2005 G6 INTERMITTENT POWER STEERING FAILURE. STEERING WHEEL WILL OCCASIONALLY LOCK UP WITH POWER STEERING MESSAGE IN RADIO DISPLAY AND ERROR MESSAGE IN ODOMETER DISPLAY. FIRST TIME DEALERSHIP REPLACED THE BCM. SECOND OCCURRENCE DEALERSHIP REPLACED STEERING COLUMN AND INSTALLED FAULT ANALYZER. ANALYZER IS STILL INSTALLED AND SCHEDULED FOR REMOVAL 11/11/05 FOR READOUT. Pontiac 2005 G6 STEERING WHEEL APPEARED TO 'LOCK" WHEN SITTING IN TRAFFIC, WOULD NOT TURN IN EITHER DIRECTION FOR ABOUT 2-3 SECONDS, THEN RESUMED NORMAL OPERATION. DID SAME THING AGAIN NEXT DAY AS I WAS PULLING OUT OF MY DRIVEWAY ONTO THE STREET, WOULD NOT TURN AND WENT STRAIGHT INTO THE STREET. IN BOTH CASES, WAS NOT TRAVELING VERY FAST. TOOK VEHICLE TO DEALER WITHIN 2 DAYS AND THEY COULD NOT REPLICATE THE PROBLEM. OPENED CASE WITH TECH ASSISTANCE. Pontiac 2005 G6 POWER ASSISTED STEERING LOCKS UP. THIS HAS HAPPENED IN COLD WEATHER AND MAINLY IN LOW SPEED SITUATIONS IMMEDIATELY AFTER STARTING MY VEHICLE. THE FAILURE PREVENTS YOU FROM TURNING THE WHEEL AT ALL AND YOU ARE UNABLE TO STEER THE VEHICLE FOR A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME. Pontiac 2005 G6 1 THERE IS NOT EVENT BUT TIME. THIS SAFETY FEATURE FAILS AFTER A FEW DAYS 2 THE SPEED SENSITIVE AUTO VOLUME INCREASE FEATURE DOES NOT FUNCTION IN AM. THIS CREATES AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE DRIVER HAS TO MANUALLY ADJUST THE RADIO'S VOLUME TO COMPENSATE FOR SPEED RELATED NOISE. 3 REPLACED THE RADIO 3 TIMES. IT FAILED IN 2 DAYS. THE CAR WAS ONLY USED ABOUT 3 HOURS.

That is the truth - this must have been a real recent decision on the Escalade hybrid.

I can not speak for every position, but what I have just seen, YES!

Yup - that is already figured into the plan. Yup - There is recruitment going on right now. As for lower cost workers, I do not think so. I have seen the package they are offering.