evok

What does the seat supplier Faurecia have to do with anything? Faurecia has operations in MI. Because Faurecia supplier both the Vectra and Malibu seats it does not mean the seat share the important things. Cushions and trim. You really do not understand automotive. Products like the Malibu, G6, Lacrosse, V-Vans are the poster children of all that is wrong with GM in the eyes of the larger public. And this death spiral only circles back to more plant closing, higher legacy cost/vehicle, etc. And as far as what is on the road right now. What has the public seen from Lutz? The Solstice? Sky? Where do you get off making blanket statements like that? You do not know who to debate. You throw buck shot to the board and very little of it sticks. Your arguments are all over the place and are more opinion than fact. We can agree on that. Objective - I will let the board decide the merits of that! For us apologist - I really wonder how many of us here are actually driving foreign brand cars at the moment. I know I am driving GM's biggest market flop given all the awards it has received.

You know we have talked about it offline and I agree.

Styling and Powertrain: Both derived from the P90 Malibu which was not doing well in the market and heavily fleeted. Sound familiar?

Frankly compared to the competition it is not living up to many others expectations also. Including GMs. Sales have never hit projections and the plant was not running at capacity. Ever. The car is dependible. So is a Kia and a Hyundai. And that my friend is why GM is loosing money in NA. No they go to Hyundai, Kia, Ford, etc. This is not worth answering. Please go back and read your posts. Second you might have a point if GM were growing in the US. PS - NeonLX is a big boy and can make his own decisions.

Yes I remember. The worst surprise for me was when I got my first glipse of the 380 underwraps. I was walking on the build floor and saw the first 380s incamo. I though it was a mule epsilon with a P90 body on it. I was wrong.

Bad things happen in chat rooms. I watch those 60 Minute and Dateline NBC shows. Dateline has enabled the police to capture and convict some nasty people attempting to do some nasty stuff because of those chat rooms. All caught on tape. _________________ G6: The article is spot on when you compare it to the competition. Which I might add they did when you read the whole article. And what exactly is the main competition. The Chrysler Sebring! That is not saying much. Let's see how well it does against the NG Sebring coming out soon.

As usual your arguments are all over the place and frankly are not very rational. ** Continue to beat the dead horse.** Let me summarize your absurd post: 1) Blame the media. 2) Blame the public. 3) Blame the spoiled liberals. 4) Blame the buff magazine. Frankly that is irrational. The facts of the situation are: The GMX360 Malibu has not been accepted by the public and that can and has been shown by the lack of sales success, particularly on the retail level. On the retail level both the Camry and Accord outsell the Malibu in the US almost 4:1 and at premium pricing. An intelligent person would ask "why?"

Oh razor so happy to have you back. Sam locking you in the store and making you work OT again? I thought they would send the greeters home when they closed up? Either way, good to have you back.

I have seen enough of your posts to realize they are not worth my time. But if you want to have at it . . .

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see enzl's post - I am done diatribing for one day.

For the most part they are right on the money when they critique a vehicle. But let us not forget - these magazines are not TRADE publications but entertainment. ENTERTAINMENT for auto enthusiasts. And BTW - that last statement of your had me ROTFLMAO. It was so ignorant it was funny and I had to laugh. i.e. Fox News, Hannity, Rush, etc.

The broken record continues - conviently he claims there was no press on this issue. So wrong again. There are two threads on this topic on CG alone. Sorry but you are late and have missed all the fun.

CARBIZ you sound like a fool and here is why: First link I posted "Maybe our fourth-place Camry LE test car was just having a bad day. Or maybe the pedestal America's best-selling sedan has been preening itself on isn't as lofty as we've thought. At low speeds, its five-speed automatic lurched on downshifts. The concrete-induced tire-whirr decibels were two settings higher than any of us remembered, and its stopping feel recalled the heyday of cable braking. Demerits against a car that otherwise gives vanilla a good name, being erstwhile quiet as a librarian with laryngitis, comforpedic riding, and as solid as a poured-concrete foundation." As I pointed out it goes both ways as I pointed out earlier.

The article on all the vehicles was fair and if you have driven any or all of them you would agree. There was no spin.

Well I will dispel another myth. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/...ison/index.html http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyea...evrolet_malibu/

Chevy only sells and has sold app. 100-125k/yr Malibu's to retail customers over the life of the 380 program. Subsidized mind you. And how does that compare to the Camry? Dare I mention the carryover Classic P90 when the 380 was launched? The 380 sales are a lost worse and now are heavily inflated because of fleet now that the Classic is out of production. The vehicle has been a bust since initial release. And I said that on this board at that time years ago. I was being kind to the 380 Mailbu in comparing the sales by ignoring the Classic. Factoring the Classic into this discussion only makes the argument work in my favor. And expect the 380 to live on when the 385 is released next year. GM is going to try the dual Classic/Malibu again. Maybe this time it will work. So Carbiz go back and look at this big picture. It is a little more complex than your little persective in your little dealer. The 380 program has been a bust since launch. And I will not address your inclusion of the G6. I have already show that the G6 compared to the Grand Am has not been a sales success using data since 2000. It is you my friend who are full of it. If I need a deal on undercoating or Lo Jack, or a faux convertible roof, I will be sure to seek your imput but not on this topic.

Might I suggest you do some research and actually compare the vehicle statistics on Sigma, Lambda, Pilot and the 900s. It might answer your own questions since 85% of the statistics were ignored. PS - Check out a BMW X5. That also my help educate!

Well said -

And sales are still down year after year and heavily fleeted. How does that compare to the Camry? or Accord? or Altima? It all goes back to my earlier post today! 1) It has little appeal to the mass market on style. 2) Chevrolet/Malibu does not have a bullet proof reputation to drive sales or interest. 3) GM resorts to deals and rebates to give the cars away at a lesser lesser rate and fleet the hell out of it.

Not on the APPEAL list for 06 and it never has been: http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/rele...pdf/2006100.pdf 50% in 2005 to Fleet: http://www.fleet-central.com/af/stats2005/cars_web.pdf Sales Jan -June 06 vs 05: 89,827 vs. 100,863 Sales Jan -June 2000 115,511 These are direct measurements of what the general public thinks and has thought. Successful IQS and Dependability ratings have not altered the appeal of the vehicle to the public. The public has spoken with their wallet.

Croc is correct. "I would be fascinated by this proof since sales are not setting the world on fire, JD Powers APPEAL data does not reveal great enthusiasm on the part of the public, and car reviews from every major auto publication have been tepid." I have nothing to defend. There is plenty of data that supports my statements. It is you that needs to prove me wrong. Which you cannot do unless you use anedotal stories or unsupportable opinion. Which is also know as spin. Don't BS me. Please.

Tahoe Curb weights, estimated (lbs.) 2WD 5,443 4x4 5,706 Acadia (lbs.) 4722 (FWD) 4936 (AWD) And let me throw in a Sienna for good measure 4255 (FWD) 4405 (AWD) Or how about a smaller Pilot 4356 (FWD) 4524 (AWD) Add to the fact that lambda will not be designed for truck like applications, the powertrain can be geared for real world average usage. Looking at the specs - at minimum 500lbs is a lot between the 900 and Lambda.

Thanks - so does my wife.

In all seriousness people buy a product based up three things: 1) Styling - can include vehicle attributes. 2) Reputation - can include brand image. 3) Price That is it in a nut shell. In the case up the Malibu - the vehicle does not have a positive reputation, is not exciting to look at so therefore the only thing that can drive sales is price. So the point that was brought up earlier about the engine being pushrod is pointless. The total package driven by its styling is so lackluster there is very little reason to look at the vehicle if you are in the market unless you can get a good deal that is hard to turn down. If GM put the Northstar or 3.6 in the current Malibu with a 6 speed stick or auto, does anybody really think sales would increase much if at all? Another recent example is the Cadillac SRX for 07. Does anyone here really think the money spent on the interior will increase sales all that much? Without updating the exterior styling on the volume vehicle, sales will be flat for 07. Few will look at the 07 because of the interior redo no matter how good it is. So without dramatic styling, a mediocre reputation in that segment, GM will have to use price to attract interest. If GM would have invested more in a dramatic front end for the vehicle, maybe the rest of the shortcomings would be overlooked. Much as what happened with the CTS and second generation Escalade. I can use many examples where the rest of the vehicle was crap, used antiquated powertrain, front wheel drive, but ultimatly the vehicle was successful because of great styling. Just look at Chrysler in the 90s.