G. David Felt

Mileage tax if states move to that will be like any other tax I suspect, you pay the full amount even if you drove 1/3 of it out of state. I do not see how a state can get out of state drivers to pay in state mileage tax. This way each state still collects the mileage tax and it offsets for those out of state drivers. I agree with Hyper, EVs are not the all end to fix the planet. Hell even I know that a battery pack creates about the same amount of greenhouse gas as driving an eco box petro auto for 10 years. Difference is we should be able to engineer a way to capture that gas and clean it, reuse it or figure out a way to harness that lost energy much like regenerative brakes works to put power back into your battery pack. I would think industry will eventually come up with some solutions on how to maximize steam, heat, cooling etc. from producing various products and return it back to the grid.

While I agree with the first statement above, unless manufacturers POINTEDLY install OBVIOUS obsolescence tech, the fact that the vehicle is powered electrically should not incite mass 'this is outdated, gotta get a new one' mentality in the market. Phones incorporate a LOT of fleeting tech & apps which yes, are subject to superficial judgement, but these types of features in vehicles are pretty much independent of the power plant propelling such. Phonesa re also a HELLUVA lot more affordable than cars- most people don't shoulder a loan to own one. Even subsequent generations of EVs that have improved range still should not see mass incentive to upgrade… this is in the same vein as IC vehicles' MPG improvement in subsequent gens. It's not usually enough to cause a trade- the costs are too steep for most consumers. I think what you miss is that EV is only at the start of the learning and investment curve where IC is at the end. With a EV we could be just months with major improvments with technology investments or we could be years it all matters on how it progresses and that remains the great unknown. . Based on other electronics I suspect that will see much greater changes in the EV auto than we have seen year to year in a IC car. Also electronic today fail after so long with age. or they just get old and incompatible. I think I misinterpreted your 9:26 post. Agreed that as EVs age, they will be of very little value. Even basic battery-powered low-tech items, like cordless drills, are cost-prohibitive to keep running, batteries are discontinued/harder to get, and the performance drops off. Meanwhile a corded 25 yr old drill just keeps spinning for decades on end. Is the EV akin to the cordless drill? Probably. The problem there is, along with the supposed influx of autonomous driving vehicles, it will continue to sap all the emotion out of automobiles, making them more & more disposable. I have to disagree with you Balthazar and this comes I believe from my working in the Computer industry as an engineer and always being asked to think outside the box. EV's open a whole new world to the auto enthusiast. Without all the liquid issues, we have plenty of room for people to create and build performance electric motors to replace existing OEM motors and as EVs become more common and we see how OEM auto builders tend to go with their solutions, then you have 3rd party startups that can build and expand on what the OEM has built. Perfect example of this is a company I found while looking at electric axles. story posted to the alternative fuels thread: Electric Axles and the 4WD Ford F150 EV! This company I found, Protean Electric builds a complete motor, regenerative brake system that fits behind rims 18" or bigger and allows you to drop the whole power train, driveline, axle and allows one to create a unique AWD system. Why do I bring this up? Performance, creative choice, so many ways for a custom builder to build a green auto that can have a large range of power and mileage. As I stated in that write up, you CANNOT get the torque out of a gas motor that this electric solution provides. Ford F150 with the following: 2,300 lbs feet of combined torque from a dead stop 448 HP from the combined 4 motors Read the write up and then tell me your thoughts? I really think if we embrace thinking outside the box, we have so much potential in having some amazing rides. Think of your favorite older ride, clean no petro, plug it in too recharge and yet just goes with plenty of getup and go. As battery tech improves you can change out the battery pack, as companies produce more powerful electric motors, you replace them also. Even in traditional auto's, there are so many options now of powerful electric motors that challenge petro in performance and yet make it much easier to maintain. Yes you Make Valid points about cordless drills versus corded drill, yet I have had both rebuilt when they wore out and in many cases like an auto, just replaced with a newer more powerful version and recycled the older version. Everything wears out eventually, but I do see a cleaner nicer planet with EVs especially as solar and alternative energy platforms emerge and grow.

Washington state like Oregon has a test in place right now on paying mileage rather than gas tax. Or in this case you have to submit for those on the Mileage tax a request for refund of the gas tax. Right now I think the Mileage tax is a far better way to go and equal for all regardless of the type of auto you use as everyone pays a fair share for the roads. Commercial is a higher rate for heavier trucks, but other wise regulat trucks and cars pay the same as businesses. at a couple pennies per mile, I think it would be best for everyone. I do wonder how they would collect from out of state drivers / truckers.

Just wait till the government starts to charge you by the mile on the taxes they are losing on fuel now. Higher MPG and electrics have them all scrambling to take the tax by the mile. Also factor in the greatest cost in Fuel now is state and federal taxes and that is not going to go away. What about areas that have electric issues like in LA. In heat waves there are brown outs now what will they do when everyone starts plugging cars in? They are way behind on everything and solar and wind is not going to do it alone. What about the damns being torn down and not replaced? We tore down 2 dams that were not efficient or worth it and gained more in releasing the river and salmon, animals etc. Then upgraded the big dams on the columbia and double the power output which not only covered the loss of the little power from the two old dams but gave so much more to be sold on the market since Washington has a surplus. My understanding is one of the biggest buyers of power is california and they buy all the surplus washington makes and still cannot get enough. Seems lots of wasted electric use. Yes people would hate to have a darker vegas strip but we could save tons of power if they did not waste so much on light shows.

Electricity in Washington state is heavily regulated and increases are only allowed under mandated voting by a board in our capital. One reason probably that our rates have stayed so low but also we do have an abundance of the 3 natural green energies that helps to keep things low and a statewide attitude of doing everything green. In washington state you also have to have Garbage, yard/food waste and recycling pickup weekly. As such all of waste management trucks are CNG here. Just looked at my most current BI-Monthly PUD bill from PSE. I used 1788 KWH at a rate of .09437 per KWH which came out to $168.73 plus the tax of $10.12 for a bill of $178.85 for 2 months or $89.425 per month. So if I get a BOLT and add the $28 per month to my electric bill but stop spending $400 a month on fuel even with the car payment and insurance, I still come out ahead.

Washington State only has PSE or Puget Sound Energy for the state supplying electricity and I am fine with that as is the bulk of the state. WHY you ask, because we have some of the cheapest if not cheapest electricity in the nation. All our power is Hydro, Wind and Solar created. Total cost ranks us as 50th in the nation as a total cost today in 2016 per kWh is now 8.53 cents. Comparisons of years past: 2016 - 8.53 cents per kWh 2014 - 7.15 2012 - 6.94 2010 - 6.66 2008 - 6.55 2006 - 6.14 2004 - 5.80 2002 - 5.88 2000 - 4.41 1998 - 4.03 I you want to see your own state historical trend, check here as I found NE keeps it simple and easy to read all the reports comparing every state since 1998. http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204_archive.htm Yes I choose to jump every 2 years on the rates, but as you can see except in 2002 when it jumped up before falling back and this was to pay for dismantling / retiring the loan nuclear reactor they had here in washington. Based on 1200 miles a month driving a BOLT, my cost will be $28 dollars a month to fuel the BOLT. This along with a number of other benefits is why my wife told me she wants the BOLT when it comes out this fall. Even if they double the electric rate, this will still be a huge savings compared to the roughly $400 a month I pay for petrol for my Trailblazer SS that she drives daily.

I totally agree and after my time in the CT6 NA and XT5 NA, I am even more convinced that Turbocharging while giving a fun factor to an auto is not needed for most implementations.

+1 ^^^^ I totally agree, GM should have continued to make those auto's for a couple more years.

G. David Felt Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com My CT6 & XT5 Personal Experience So this is my experience after spending 1hr, 30 min with both a brand new XT5 and CT6 from Doug's Cadillac in North Seattle. This is my home dealership and they have always taken care of me. We finally have gotten the new CT6 and XT5 into the Greater Seattle area. Brad my sales rep called me up thursday afternoon to inform me they had 3 of the CT6 and 3 of the XT5 that got delivered that day and would be ready for driving friday. I called my parents and wife to see if they wanted to go check them out and of course they did. So at 2pm friday afternoon, my work day done, I headed out to be picked up by the wife and my parents and drive to the dealership. I can honestly say we were all excited to see these auto's in person. The CT6 was available in the following colors, black, white and granite. The XT5 was in black, white and red. While my parents and wife went over to compare and check out the XT5 which was backed up against an identical SRX. I started with the CT6. First off and this is directed at SMK and others that have questioned Cadillac and the CT6, before you go and continue to make comments and embarass yourself, you need to go to cadillac and check this auto out for yourself. I can honestly say that Cadillac beat MB E-Class on the interior quality. The over all design both inside and outside is personal and you have the right to like the design language of MB over cadillac. Yet before you say the car cannot compete or is poor quality, moving the goal post or anything else, check the auto out as I now wish I had taken photo's of the 1 year old MB E-Class they had in the used section as it paled in comparison to this car. The CT6 was super quiet on the road, and in fact I was looking at the gauges to see what the response was of the auto due to how quiet it was. The one thing that popped into my mind was my grandfather and his love of Cadillac and how he always owned a Brougham till his death. I loved the extensive back seat room in his cars and the CT6 did not let me down. With the front seat set for me, I could get in the back and still had about 12 inches of room from my knees to the back of the seat. For a 6'6" tall guy, this was impressive to me and my family as everyone was really surprised with the interior room. Handling was tight, solid and the auto never gave any sign that it was under load and could go with a more powerful engine. Yes this had the V6, but still it moved. I loved the soft squishy leather dash with the real wood and carbon fiber accents. It was classy and yet still said modern. Tactile feel of the buttons what few there was, was very impressive and solid to the feel. I fell in love with the touch pad in controlling the interface. This needs to be standard on all auto's, it was very intuitive and I had very positive feedback of getting right into the various options. Having been in the BMW and MB auto's, I felt it was a tie between them for what I could naturally figure out on my own and the frustration with the buried levels of interfaces to find stuff. Cadillac was very intuitive from the start and I was able to find everything fast and easy. With that said and comparing it to the used MB and BMW on the lot, going from one to another you will still need some help from the sales person on either MB and BMW and yet I think while the customer service is nice to have a quick training on the new CUE system, my gut tells me that most people can figure it out without ever having their hand held. My Mom and Dad are perfect example of baby boomers who tech scares them and yet both found this easy to use. I really loved the customizable interface of the dash. With my quick spin around the block done and due to others showing up to test drive the CT6, I moved onto the XT5. As you can see from the pictures, my dad was outside and my mom was inside with Brad going over the interface and the auto. I chose to do a comparison of the outsides and realized that the 2nd gen SRX was very much geared more for the ladies. Even my wife said it was a more feminine looking auto compared to the more masculine XT5. While I was comparing the outsides, the regional Cadillac district manager stopped and asked me how I liked the new XT5. I told him I loved it and was excited for it, but had a question for him. Why not change the SRX to XT3 and continue to sell it for now. He said many dealers had asked that but what they saw at the dealer meeting blew them away and he said a clean cut with a short period of time before the new XT3 is shown and goes into production is the right move as customers like us will be very happy with what they are working on. This left me very excited for the near future of where Cadillac is going. I really hope that Cadillac does deliver on 110% on the new XT3 that is coming. Back to the XT5, Many of us have already seen under the hood of the SRX and know that Cadillac like everyone else has always had the V6 engine and even the 4 bangers in the ATS and CTS well covers and clean looking. I have to say I was a bit surprised and disappointed in the engine bay of the XT5. I actually feel that some type of cover is missing from this engine bay and that I should not be seeing this mess. This was my first and last disappointment with the XT5. In the lower left hand corner is the Horn next to the oil fill tube for the DEXOS 5W-30 oil. The rest I think is pretty clear for everyone to figure out what is what. The horn was surprising as it is small but is still very loud and bassy, not a high pitch tin can beep. I will say that Cadillac has fixed their injector noise issue as even with the hood up, I could not hear them. The engine was super quiet and on the road showed just how silky soft yet powerful it was. Very impressed with this V6 over the existing V6 in my 2008 SRX. Since as you all can see it is longitudinal, it does confirm that this is FWD based and yet with that came the other surprise a button on the center console that allowed you to turn off the AWD system so you can run it in FWD only and get much better MPG. This is a change from the 2016 SRX4 that is full time AWD. This option is a nice to have as many can buy and still get better MPG driving in FWD most of the time and then use the AWD when winter comes or if you do a road trip to colder climates and need better traction. Moving onto the inside as my parents took the black XT5 out for a spin, I was pleasantly pleased with the dash. Over all it is customizable just like the CT6 but had a clear different layout. I actually liked the speedo in the center compared to the right side in the CT6. Also being much bigger and taller I liked having the air vents on top rather than on the bottom. The CUE system and dash controls were the same and worked just fine for me. What was interesting was the different shifters. You had a much more tradition one in the CT6 with just forward or back on the auto shifter to go into gear for drive, reverse and yet on the XT5 you had more of a joystick style of shifter. Once Brad pointed out I had to not only step on the brake but also press the button on the left side of the shifter you just moved the shifter back into D for drive, a second time goes into manual mode. For reverse while pressing the brake pedal down and pressing the button on the left side of the shifter you move it forward and to the left. Be in reverse or drive, one thing I loved was the top button on the shifter or joystick that you pushed that had a P on it and it auto puts into park the transmission. I can honestly say I really liked the new shifter in the XT5. Comfort of the seats, WOW, my wife, parents and I have always enjoyed taking my 2006 ESV Platinum Escalade on road trips and the comfort of the seats for long drives. The XT5 just showed me why I need to wait for the update to the escalade, these newer much slimmer seats are really comfortable. No one would have a problem going on a long road trip in this CUV. Interior noise on the road, this again was a pleasant surprise as I expected the CT6 to be dead quiet, I was not expecting the XT5 to also be dead quiet. Not sure if Cadillac is using the Buick quiet steel technology or not, but they nailed it for a very quiet lovely ride with no wind noise, road noise or other auto noise intruding into the inside. Fit and Finish is first rate on both auto's, the interior room is just splendid. Room in the back as well as the front is so much more than in the SRX. SRX drivers side even with the seat all the way back, my long legged mom could still reach the pedals. In the XT5 and CT6, with the seats all the way back, she could not reach the pedals. This just continued to confirm that big people in the back seats of either auto will have plenty of room. Not sure what kind of fans Cadillac is using now in their auto's but the one thing that surprised me was how quiet they were even on high with AC. You had a pleasant stream of cool air with no fan noise. Radio once turned on showed the quality BOSE stereo system that both auto's have and how great they are. Over all I have to say that Cadillac hit the ball out of the ball park on both the CT6 and XT5 and BMW and MB needs to pay attention as these two auto's clearly are a big big step up from their equal in both product lines. Got question, just ask.

Goes right along with that all important follow up question of To swallow or not!

I hope Cadillac is already planned for a proper EV to have in the family as the current petro and PHEV is good but they need a true EV and I would say a PHEV CUV would also be the right thing to do. I am excited to see what Genesis does as I suspect it will really make the rest of the luxury market also step up.

Who cares about fleet sales, I would rather have a profitable GM with "I Want Product" than one driven by needing fleet sales.

Turbo is a fun toy but not the efficient catch all that the gov makes them out to be or the auto companies. I find my NA V8 to be equal and in many way superior to the whole turbo mess.

Was that not Solent Green?

+1 to Drew and Bill as I agree totally with what you both have stated! ^^^^

Cools specs, nice update, but over all Audi just has never done anything for me. Not sure why but they just do not inspire me with excitement. This update included.

Depending on the size of the battery pack and weight you want to add to the auto, from 100 miles to 400 miles. The newer Lio cells should really help out with the range.

Agree with you on the PZEV as that one has always made me wonder and yet some of the asian brands that make PZEV auto's seem to enjoy sales success and yet I have not seen any American brand be PZEV yet and doubt they ever will.

Protean Electric has a number of white papers covering conversions, hybrids, etc. Some very interesting concepts and info. Protean Electric White Papers Their Myth and Realities paper is very insightful as well as many of their papers. Yes I realize this is also marketing as they are trying to get people to buy their products. I also see plenty of potential for converting older auto's, reducing weight and allowing for many new auto's to push the boundaries of what an auto can be.

+1 to Suav as I agree I think the auto business has peaked and will taper down over the next couple quarters as people are waiting for new product that is promised late 2017 or as a 2018 model.

+1 ^ to Casa as I like his product road map! One thing to add is EV versions to the line and make sure they are also in the XT line.

G. David Felt Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com Electric Axles and the 4WD Ford F150 EV! Researching for conversion of my 1994 GMC SLE Suburban to electric made me think about 4WD as it is currently just a 2WD rig. As I started to search I found many options for taking certain electric motors and connecting them to the transmission and using what is there already on AWD/4WD auto's for moving the vehicle. I got to thinking much like Tesla, what about an Axle Electric motor solution and started to search to see what was out there and was very surprised to find many interesting home grown and some commercial options. EV Axel BING Search This led me to find a company in China called YIWO who does car to HD Truck electric axles for OEMs to custom conversions. YIWO Alibaba web page This search then led me to the YIWO company home page also hosted by Alibaba where one can find an amazing variety of axles for use in traditional petro auto's to plug-in hybrids to pure EVs. YIWO Home Page While doing this search I found that Alibaba has an amazing amount of EV parts on their Amazon like web site. Alibaba With this search I then came across an interesting write up from 2011 about in wheel motors allowing for a simple 4WD approach to auto's while not affecting the driving characteristics. This brought me to Protean Electric which was founded in 2009 in Troy Michigan. They now have an office in UK and an office with production in China. Protean Electric Protean Electric took a totally different approach to EV auto's They started with adding the motors with regenerative braking at the wheel. This allowed them to then make 8 powerful mini motors working together to improve HP and Torque along with braking to have a far more efficient package. This design allowed them to take a 2009 Ford F150 Pickup and dump the existing powertrain, including driveline, heavy axle and create an 4WD Pickup without having to touch the existing handling characteristics by putting the battery pack in the exact center of the auto to keep the truck hauling and handling just like Ford Engineered it to be. As you can see the battery pack from the rear axle picture, the last picture posted above. What about the interior you ask? Easy, Protean Electric changed out the dash for a digital display that they also make and added to the center console a 3 button shifter that covers Drive, Neutral and Reverse plus as you can see in the picture below, a big red kill switch button that probably could be incorporated better into the dash. So what about Horsepower and Torque? This is where is gets really exciting as this Ford F150 with the 4WD in Wheel motors produces the following: 2,300 lbs feet of combined torque from a dead stop 448 HP from the combined 4 motors Now the great part is you can dial down the torque and HP so you can lengthen the life of the battery pack. According to P.E. they have stated that most implementations of this solution done at 578 pound feet of Peak torque, 355 pound feet of continuous torque and horsepower of 320 for the 4 motors combined which equals out to 80 HP per motor, 88.75 pound feet of continuous torque per motor with a peak torque of 144.5 per motor per the companies interview with pickuptrucks.com. Protean Electric has recently done for Mercedes-Benz a Brabus 4WD EV station wagon. Brabus 4WD powertrain. What this tends to impress on me is that the future for electric auto's is bright and as battery technology gets better and better, we are moving to a silent world of autos that will push you back into your seat and have you hanging on to an amazing gut thrilling ride.

Surprised that none of the German Fans have commented on this!

Very interesting thoughts you have stated Suaviloquent. Appreciate you chiming in here about this.

A traditional HDD most certainly has a shelf life though. My SSD in my MacBook Pro has been going strong for over three years with more RAW file rewrites than be counted by Stepehn Hawking. No complaints at all on my end. I will never use a HDD again. Agree with Surreal, that SSD is the future and for many, the whole fear of SSD failures is not an issue like it was 4-5 years ago. Lately the SSDs have pretty strong life. Now for cold storage of data, you can and should use spinning drives I feel due to the much lower cost. Yet enterprise SSDs are proving that long life is very possible with SSDs. Like NASA, the tech eventually trickles down to the retail level.