G. David Felt

<_< Disappointed, Looks like a better refined version of the current Escalade and WAY to much chrome. The 20" are nothing special just conservative boring rims. Sad, I truly hope when I see the new line in person it looks better than in pictures. I also hope GM follows through on their comments and gives us the Duramax in the Yukon XL or Denali XL model. Diesel Rules! :P

<_< IMO the 1st gen is better looking than the 2nd gen. I do not like that big ass chevy bar in the second one. It looked good for the 1st gen. I like an open grill area. :P

:P Let's just hope this kind of creative marketing goes with all new auto's from the General this year. :)

:lol: You crack me up, here on the west coast I have not seen any caddy with a fake convertible top. Yet when I travel to the areas that have a high % of black people, you see many of these cars on Caddy, Chrysler 300 etc. This is not about saying it turns off young people. It is understanding that every section of the US has differant market requirements. There are those that think the BMW garbage is terrible and would love to put on a softtop for the look. There is nothing wrong with delivering what specific market segments want. If you can not see past what others like and accept them, then you are not able to see the bigger picture. Marketing is wasted on people like you who can not accept variety. This does not take down Caddy. I myself do not like the fake softtop, yet I own a CTS and am in the 30's crowd. :P

:) We'll I wish I had read this thread earlier, I would have loved to meet you VenSeattle. I too was at the bellevue one later due to working late. Both vehicle are nice, very quite. While they are leaps ahead of the auto's they replace, I still felt they lacked American Greatness. Guess at 6'6" 270 pounds, an Auto needs to handle me in both the front and back. Both car's had similar issues, set the front seat for me and then when you get out and go to the back seat, it is a tight leg squeeze. Also, due to the way the roof line curves down, I have to sit with my head tilted forward or slouch in the chair. American Sedans used to offer great body space. The 300 sedan does this well and so does the charger. Other than the space issues, I thought it was a very quite and solid car. Will be interested in watching the reliability of these babies for the next few years. :)

Just becuase a certain segment of the market likes the new cadillacs with canvas fake convertible roofs does not mean a dealer should not offer the profitable service. This only makes everyone money and GM another vehicle sold. Croc, the Focus needs to be on Quality Auto's with leadership from GM and working to enhance profitable addon sales to the dealerships. Once Chrysler saw the large up swing from the black community for canvas roofs installed on 300 sedans, Chrysler helped setup up approved installers that could do this for the dealers and not void the warrenty. Solid, Quality Auto built, To the point a fairly good marketing program and then for added profit to the dealers, a solid add-on enhancements for the vehicle. This is a win win solution for everyone.

:) I would normally say lets all agree to disagree and move on, yet for those of us that have worked the sales side and move to engineering due to our passion to want to create better products understand the need to bring Marketing into the fold. It is the ancient good ol boy's club at the top that is killing our beloved GM. They had their chance, they are past their prime. Time to let Wagoner and Lutz out to pasture to revel in their old memories and allow us Generation X and Y bring passion with a clear message back to the masses. Really, I doubt any person on this board could walk into a GM showroom with an ad that shows every discount that GM has and truly get that auto. It is stupid to market a auto showing military discounts, college discounts, 1st time buyers discount, competition win discount, etc. The list goes on and dealers and the GM marketing team will throw them all in a list and say get this 7K off this auto when in reality most only are eligable for maybe 1/3 of the list. Then the lack of passion on the auto's is clear. Yes we all understand there is a design cycle, but so far, the concept auto's GM has been showing for the last 4 years are not blowing any air up peoples pant legs. Exciting auto's with smart clear marketing message can win the auto war. B)

First off, for sales people I can See where Buickman is going and why he would suggest the turn around he has placed on the table. I also understand why people think Lutz is the man for now, yet history has taught us many lessons. 1st lesson is that companies like Microsoft can build fortunes with the right marketing message and plan. 2nd Drastic changes must take place to turn a titanic company around. 3rd in a global economy, socialist methodes, IE UAW and those that want to have Government intervention most often causes total failure of the company. Look at the Unions and how they pressured the steel industry into keeping what they fought so hard to have as a pension program and BOOM. Our steel industry for the most part is dead and the companies are dead. China bought the plants, disassembled them and took them home to make steel cheaper. Look at so called turn around specialist that did not believe in marketing. Robert Palmer CEO of Digital, he killed the unions, cut cost, yet never believed in leveraging the marketing might like Microsoft to sell what was clearly superior technology. Company dead due to buy out by Compaq and the retirement of those items Compaq did not want to deal with. Look at Compaq, had a great marketing program in place, but did not invest in R&D to keep the growth of the company and allowed a rapidly and willing to change company called DELL to kill it off and end up having it merge with HP. HP, tried to integrate the two beast and did an OK job, but it needed a new visionary to move the company forward and continue to grow with a proper marketing campaign. What we can learn it the following, Solid defined Marketing plane that drives excitement and can increase sales and customer demand. Drastic cut of legacy cost, close the Job bank, Drastic cuts on the socialist UAW contract, Enhancements to current product to peak intrest while driving R&D to bring out better long term products to replace weak products. (Read This as More Features for less cost) Currently Toyota sell's the Matrix, Cousin to the Pontiac Vibe at a lower cost with more features than Pontiac. Might as well complement Toyota for doing a better job. Cut out this nickel and Dime sell's approach from the 80's and 90's package 2 or 3 bundles that give you mostly everything at a set price. Customers love the simple easy to buy approach of Saturn, Push this out through out all the divisions. MERGE, MERGE, MERGE, review of all divisions has already clearly shown that we could simplilfy cost by reducing the amount of divisions GM has. Time to focus marketing and R&D dollars on a few divisions that can drive steller profits. Recruit and promote Young Blood. Lutz had his moment, that is past, from a consultant point of view he has merrit, but from a leadership his time has passed. He was part of the early baby boomers. We have those making money to be the late baby boomers and early x generations. Let those people drive the market by producing product that they will consume. We are past the Jelly bean years. Time for a mgmt change that I believe the younger mgmt at GM can deliver on. Step aside Lutz, Step aside Wagoner, time for a true changing of the guard. B) Sales & Marketing MUST work with R&D to WIN. Microsoft has shown us that this combination can and continues to be a winning formula. Something many companies miss or lack a part of.

<_< As long as I can get my Duramax in a Suburban or Denali I am happy! :P So far except for Caddy and the Corvette. Not any of the current car's blow air up my pants. They are all boring and dull. So kill them, kill them all and bring out some global RWD quality exciting car's for each division after they kill Buick and Pontiac. Chevy - entry division Saturn - step up from Chevy GMC - professional Grade Caddy - Luxury level. The New GM! :)

500 <_< Another BORING car equal to the Camry, civic, etc. Ford needs to wake up to rear wheel drive and some exciting sheet metal. <_< The 2006 auto season will be an interesting one, I think we will see many things fail, not because of quality but because of lack of excitement. Wrong product made for the market. Motor Trend auto of the year. Got my latest edition in the mail last night. <_< The BUTT UGLY Civic is their pick as best. The review was a joke as they need to keep their asian paying friends happy. <_<

:lol: Yup you are right, I just did not pick up on the title that was used. Thanks for the heads up. :P

GM slashes Jobs and closes plants by end of 2006 We'll I for one was calling for Wagoner to step down, This just might be what saves his ass! Unlike the multiple years, 21 plants closed and 74K layed off starting in 1991. This one year big change could really improve things fast for GM. Be interesting as to how they handle the UAW. The UAW plans to fight this it sounds like. Sound off, do you think this is a good move or bad move for GM? Do you think they need to go deeper? Sounds like the SSR will be dead with the closing of the Michigan Craft Center. What are your thoughts? :CG_all:

True, but at Least I have to give Honda the aknowledgement that they talk about the performance gain on the accord. Toyota, just outright lies about the Highlander Hybrid and say's all is good for everyone when that is not really the picture of what they have done. Either way, truth seems harder to get across than lies. Sad the marketing state we are in. Even with the Toyota Prius getting nailed in CA for the actual fuel consumption of only low 40's MPG does not seem to make people or the press scream louder. <_<

As already stated, GM is building Luxury condo's on one site, I know they have a couple of mall's being built on two other sites. If you look at all the realstate that GM own's, they can do many things with the old closed down sites that can bring in cash flow. Reality is everyone is in the business to make a buck, some are short time others thinking long term. Reality is GM board needs to make a change and Wagoner is the lamb to be sacrificed.

<_< Puleaseeeee Hybrid are a marketing Exercise in distractive lying. Look at all the toxic compounds it takes to build the battery packs, extra electric parts etc. The autos create just as much toxic waste if not more than is saved by the hybrid system. Let the uninformed waste their money. A coworker traded his Highlander SUV in for the HYBID version and spent the extra 12K the dealer demanded for it. Reality check, 2 months later he is madder than a hornet as he only got a lousy 2 mile per gallon more in driving it. yea the 0-60 times are 2+ seconds faster than the non hybrid version but the end result is it is a marketing tool. No real benefits! IMO <_<

:huh: Really, this whole HHR thing is surprising, I have seen 2 on the road here in Seattle Washington and 1 at our auto show a week ago. I have been by 3 chevy dealers and not a one had an HHR. They just do not seem to be any around here. The Cobalt on the other hand is HOT here. :P You find those babies every were and a ton of kids are trading in those junky Honda's for them also. :D My own son who liked the 240SX and the 300Z as his favorite cars has decided he likes the cobalt more and wants the SS after having sat in it at the AutoShow. He also loves the Saturn Ion. :P These cars will help out the General greatly. :D IMO

<_< I think most people here will realize that a change is in order, Wagoner had his chance and has pretty much wasted it. Unfortunate but true, the older people get, the more unwilling to change. In this regards it takes a person that is not affraid to force change. Kerkorian while not the most loved business man, has actually done allot for society. For the ultra liberals that feel he should be giving hand out to the poor, you will not find this from this man. What you will find is business that generate profits and create jobs. This grows the working class and stability of this country. If the people on the side of the road are too lazy to take a job at McDonalds or a job at one of Kerkorians companies then they get what they deserve. He is doing what really helps this country, Investing to grow business that create jobs. Yes Profit is a means that all investors and owners want, the reality is if it can be done with a long term view that benefits everyone and Kerkorian seems to be able to achieve this. IMO Kerkorian represented by York on the board will be a good thing for GM. Clean out those that are dragging their feet, close down the useless plants and streamline. Take a page from the little that GM has done and redesign the plants into other uses, mall's, apartments, etc. There are great ways for GM to still keep the land or turn it into some other profit means. Long Live the General! B)

:P Too True Future of GM, so much self opinion that it can not be considered an evaluation of our educational system, but then if we just go on peoples writing and spelling, mine is bad I know it, then maybe we have left many behind. :lol:

<_< Biggest challenge will be to keep the CTS on the A&S theme and not get it watered down like a jeally bean. My wife still is complaining to me that while the New Escalade is nice, it has lost the in your face look that made it a hit. Cadillac wanted to attrack a younger crowd to grow their brand, Leave the DTS and STS to the older 50 to senior people. They rarely go for the SUV / Truck scene or the entry level scene of the CTS, but keep the aggressive look of the CTS otherwise Caddilac will have had their flash but lost the long term war. Next year will be a very telling year for GM as to weather or not Lutz is worth the money they pay him and his addiction to the Jelly Bean style of autos. <_< IMO, Lutz is past his prime and lost his edge. He does not have the right mind set for growing the general, keep him for input as a specialist, but take him out of the actual direction of the company designs, he is messing up the formula.

<_< Yea and when was the last time America allowed a foreign company to own a military supplier. Nope will never happen, probably we will see a bail out of GM just like Chrysler in the 80's.

Sad that a company thinks the population is that stupid and needs such a worthless anouncement about their advertising spending. :P

<_< And you thought they would not resort to what appeared to work last time? We are in the midst of the reuse everything that appeared to work last year to finish out the year strong. :lol: Originality seams to be lacking across the auto industry. <_< Now I was discussing this with my coworkers here and we all agreed that a 0% for 60 months financing along with a Xmas $500 in options free for customizing the auto would be sweet!!! :P Everyone gets a good deal and the dealership then get the customer to buy from them up to $500 in add on stuff like mud flaps, bug shield, upgrade shifter knob, etc. Great way to sell an auto plus get people to look at the accessories the dealer sell's. This would be better than the current ring and win. IMO :) Plus to all the C&G Folks who administer the site and make this such a great place for us Faithful GM people to bitch and love our favorite General, YOU GUYS ROCK!!! Have a Happy Holiday season! :CG_all: :cheers:

<_< I totally Disagree, take a woman who is 5'8" and has to bend over a flip down tailgate to get things in or out of the back of a suburban. 91z4me is correct that the astro van had them before the Excursion and why GM did not see the benefit of putting them on a 4x4 like the suburban is beyond me. Probably did not do the market research or stayed only in Detroit and did not get out to the other markets, but my wife is not the only one that wished they had mini stage coach doors for ease of getting things into and out of the back of a suburban. As far as the rattle noise issue, I again disagree as Ford has not had a noise problem with their design. All doors can be tight and quite with the right seals, locks, hings etc. Flip up glass is great for better visability yet with out the mini doors, I would not want a flip down tail gate. I will take the stage coach doors everytime over a flip down tail gate. IMO. I think if they did this they would sell many of them. The large flip up door is not easy for woman or small men to open and close. For us 6'6" tall guys, we hit our head on it, again not a good form / function design. GM would do well with the Flip up glass and mini stage coach doors being added to the Suburban. I think sales would be greater than most people realize as I have heard many a suburban owner here in Seattle wish they had that door setup on the back of Excursions. Could also explain why they sell so well here. Course both makers SUV's sell well here. ^_^

B) GM is a great company that has had bad management with far too many yes boys on top and a gready UAW. To set the record straight, everyone must remember that the unions did great things during the industrial revolution and up to the 60's in helping build a quality of life, get kids out of the work force and benefits for the common man. I take nothing away from negotiating a fare contract. Yet today, being the last 30-40 years, the unions have gotten corrupt, political hungry and over all forgotten to see the bigger picture for basic manual labor. Does a assembly line worker deserve to out earn the college educated? No offense, but last time I looked those that use their brains usually earned more than manual labor. At the same time taking nothing away from high school educated only line workers, they need a fare wage and benefits, but not the current socialist system the UAW has set up. Unions were good up to a point and now they are worthless, truly not helping the class of workers they were supposed to represent. IMO Bankrupcy for GM = GOOD, Keep in mind the asian auto companies get ton's of special help from the governments, so why not allow our companies to shed their debt / Legacy obligations and be on an equal fighting stance. GM gains by shedding the UAW, Legacy obligations, finally close down under performaning divisions, Buick, Pontiac and maybe GMC. Stream line a clean product line of entry level = Chevy, Middle Level = Saturn and Luxury = Caddy. Bad news for tax payers who get stuck with the debt loss, Legacy pension as the government takes over and a loss in customer support. Yet keep in mind, Chrysler had junk on the roads and turned around based on marketing, GM can do the same thing. All in All, this really can be a positive thing, no matter how you look at it. FOR THE STOCK BUYERS: Unless you can afford to loose all the money you invest in a stock that might or might not go bankrupt, stay away! Leave playing daily changes in the stock price to those that desire to take the risk and can loose the money. Many a middle income person lost their life savings trying to buy bankrupt companies or those close to it. I admit I have played and for the most part done well with KMART, WorldCom, Eron, etc. There is money to be made if you time it right and buy low, sell high and keep changing hands daily, but then like another member has stated, if a company comes out of the Chapter 11 when you are still holding, you loose big time. I say goodluck to GM, they need a major change from executive on down and a change of their divisions.

B) Good chance it could be since they have hinted at the diesel in it. This will truly give the Expedition XL a run for it's money. I truly believe Chevy and GMC will keep their title for the best selling SUV on the road and reliability. Nice job Scharmer05, that is a sweet amount of miles on your suburban. I have a 1994 that hit 350,000 this summer and just could not pull like it used to so I just got it back with a custom 406 in the bay and boy does my baby pull. Course I have been wanting diesel all along but did not like the noise or poor milage of the Excursion. I will say, I wish GM would copy FORD in this regards, mini stage coach doors and a tip up glass door. I like that over the large all in one door that goes up. Otherwise, my Suburban like all totally rocks! B)