G. David Felt

B) How about this take, Jeep for those on a low budget and young. Hummer those of us that started out in College playing with jeeps and enjoying our youth, but grown up to want more in a 4x4 as we go off road and having the cash to afford a more comfy ride. :P To me, both are awesome, just one fits a younger profile and income bracket and the other for those that have moved on up the road to the next level. Both still to be respected! B)

:P So a search of 2007 Camaro on Dogpile shows a wide variety of car's, they all look like toy's. Green one, Red one and orange one with black racing strips. Are these the ones that has everyone upset? Seems Autoblog and GTPlanet have them all posted as the new camaro? Seems Smallblock.dk also has a yellow one with black strips. We'll I think this will be very exciting at the autoshow as I hope they look even better in person than on these pics. Finally a Solid Pony car from GM. :D :CG_all:

:P Both Jeep and Hummer are hard core off road machines. I take nothing away from the Jeep, it has a loyal hard core following and with the Rubicon Jeep you really can not get a better OEM 4x4 with Detroit lockers front and rear for the money, I would challange the 27K price as Here in washington, you can not get one for less than 35K. That being stripped of only the base Rubicon, include all the upgraded stereo, etc the dealers put on them and you are in the 35-40K range for a Rubicon. Plus compared to the hummer, they have a known problem of rolling over more than a hummer. The roll over was one of the issues the military wanted fixed with the H1. Plus no diesel so if you look at the approach and departure angels, the diesel engine etc. You will find capability wise the H1 does beat the Jeep except for price. :P Yet every thing that has been written and shown by people that have the H3 or H2 is that they are every bit as capable and with the same awesome approach and departure angles that make these beast so trail worthy. Yes we all would like more power in the H3, Diesel would even be better and I believe we will see it come in both the H2 & H3 soon enough. I say leave the emotion at the door and talk hard core spec's about the rigs. Both are worthy and should be respected for what they are. B)

<_< This is Fuggly, Lutz needs to retire, I do not see this selling to the youth, but only those to poor to afford a better looking car.

B) Yup Here is my list of winners: All of Cadillac Chevy and GMC Trucks and SUV's. Corvette Pontiac GTO, sleeper car, very underrated by press and people in general. Solstic and the saturn twin. Biggest disappointments: Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn and Buick car's for the most part. Not there yet, ugly styling and still front wheel drive. Yes there are some cases for a solid dependable front wheel drive auto, but for me I want rear wheel drive. Short but Oh So SWEET! :P

<_< Sad as these people who make a middle income salary are the REAL brains behind GM Products. It would serve the world and the company better if these Exec's, recognized the problems facing GM, Accepted a wage equal to the average wage for all employee's and gave up all but basic benefits to get the company on the right foot again. Then they have shown leadership and hardship on par with the employees and can take back an exec wage and benefits. I remember the day's when Iacocca took $1 a year till the company paid off the government and was profitable. Yes the Company also gave him a large stock package that matured over time if he hit specific goals and the end result was a profitable company, but at least no one on the assembly line on up could not say that the CEO and his mgmt team did not also sacrifice to save a company. GM Exec's still seem to be in an Ivory Tower that blinds them to the stupidity of this move. <_< :( Sad for all the salary folks and any other employees that count only on a 401K as a retirement plan. After all, I doubt I will ever really see Social Security when I retire in 37 years. :angry:

:P Now it would be funny to take his 20 Point agenda, Add in realworld additions that make some of his points valid and then post it on his site. :lol:

<_< Disappointed, Looks like a better refined version of the current Escalade and WAY to much chrome. The 20" are nothing special just conservative boring rims. Sad, I truly hope when I see the new line in person it looks better than in pictures. I also hope GM follows through on their comments and gives us the Duramax in the Yukon XL or Denali XL model. Diesel Rules! :P

<_< IMO the 1st gen is better looking than the 2nd gen. I do not like that big ass chevy bar in the second one. It looked good for the 1st gen. I like an open grill area. :P

:P Let's just hope this kind of creative marketing goes with all new auto's from the General this year. :)

:lol: You crack me up, here on the west coast I have not seen any caddy with a fake convertible top. Yet when I travel to the areas that have a high % of black people, you see many of these cars on Caddy, Chrysler 300 etc. This is not about saying it turns off young people. It is understanding that every section of the US has differant market requirements. There are those that think the BMW garbage is terrible and would love to put on a softtop for the look. There is nothing wrong with delivering what specific market segments want. If you can not see past what others like and accept them, then you are not able to see the bigger picture. Marketing is wasted on people like you who can not accept variety. This does not take down Caddy. I myself do not like the fake softtop, yet I own a CTS and am in the 30's crowd. :P

:) We'll I wish I had read this thread earlier, I would have loved to meet you VenSeattle. I too was at the bellevue one later due to working late. Both vehicle are nice, very quite. While they are leaps ahead of the auto's they replace, I still felt they lacked American Greatness. Guess at 6'6" 270 pounds, an Auto needs to handle me in both the front and back. Both car's had similar issues, set the front seat for me and then when you get out and go to the back seat, it is a tight leg squeeze. Also, due to the way the roof line curves down, I have to sit with my head tilted forward or slouch in the chair. American Sedans used to offer great body space. The 300 sedan does this well and so does the charger. Other than the space issues, I thought it was a very quite and solid car. Will be interested in watching the reliability of these babies for the next few years. :)

Just becuase a certain segment of the market likes the new cadillacs with canvas fake convertible roofs does not mean a dealer should not offer the profitable service. This only makes everyone money and GM another vehicle sold. Croc, the Focus needs to be on Quality Auto's with leadership from GM and working to enhance profitable addon sales to the dealerships. Once Chrysler saw the large up swing from the black community for canvas roofs installed on 300 sedans, Chrysler helped setup up approved installers that could do this for the dealers and not void the warrenty. Solid, Quality Auto built, To the point a fairly good marketing program and then for added profit to the dealers, a solid add-on enhancements for the vehicle. This is a win win solution for everyone.

:) I would normally say lets all agree to disagree and move on, yet for those of us that have worked the sales side and move to engineering due to our passion to want to create better products understand the need to bring Marketing into the fold. It is the ancient good ol boy's club at the top that is killing our beloved GM. They had their chance, they are past their prime. Time to let Wagoner and Lutz out to pasture to revel in their old memories and allow us Generation X and Y bring passion with a clear message back to the masses. Really, I doubt any person on this board could walk into a GM showroom with an ad that shows every discount that GM has and truly get that auto. It is stupid to market a auto showing military discounts, college discounts, 1st time buyers discount, competition win discount, etc. The list goes on and dealers and the GM marketing team will throw them all in a list and say get this 7K off this auto when in reality most only are eligable for maybe 1/3 of the list. Then the lack of passion on the auto's is clear. Yes we all understand there is a design cycle, but so far, the concept auto's GM has been showing for the last 4 years are not blowing any air up peoples pant legs. Exciting auto's with smart clear marketing message can win the auto war. B)

First off, for sales people I can See where Buickman is going and why he would suggest the turn around he has placed on the table. I also understand why people think Lutz is the man for now, yet history has taught us many lessons. 1st lesson is that companies like Microsoft can build fortunes with the right marketing message and plan. 2nd Drastic changes must take place to turn a titanic company around. 3rd in a global economy, socialist methodes, IE UAW and those that want to have Government intervention most often causes total failure of the company. Look at the Unions and how they pressured the steel industry into keeping what they fought so hard to have as a pension program and BOOM. Our steel industry for the most part is dead and the companies are dead. China bought the plants, disassembled them and took them home to make steel cheaper. Look at so called turn around specialist that did not believe in marketing. Robert Palmer CEO of Digital, he killed the unions, cut cost, yet never believed in leveraging the marketing might like Microsoft to sell what was clearly superior technology. Company dead due to buy out by Compaq and the retirement of those items Compaq did not want to deal with. Look at Compaq, had a great marketing program in place, but did not invest in R&D to keep the growth of the company and allowed a rapidly and willing to change company called DELL to kill it off and end up having it merge with HP. HP, tried to integrate the two beast and did an OK job, but it needed a new visionary to move the company forward and continue to grow with a proper marketing campaign. What we can learn it the following, Solid defined Marketing plane that drives excitement and can increase sales and customer demand. Drastic cut of legacy cost, close the Job bank, Drastic cuts on the socialist UAW contract, Enhancements to current product to peak intrest while driving R&D to bring out better long term products to replace weak products. (Read This as More Features for less cost) Currently Toyota sell's the Matrix, Cousin to the Pontiac Vibe at a lower cost with more features than Pontiac. Might as well complement Toyota for doing a better job. Cut out this nickel and Dime sell's approach from the 80's and 90's package 2 or 3 bundles that give you mostly everything at a set price. Customers love the simple easy to buy approach of Saturn, Push this out through out all the divisions. MERGE, MERGE, MERGE, review of all divisions has already clearly shown that we could simplilfy cost by reducing the amount of divisions GM has. Time to focus marketing and R&D dollars on a few divisions that can drive steller profits. Recruit and promote Young Blood. Lutz had his moment, that is past, from a consultant point of view he has merrit, but from a leadership his time has passed. He was part of the early baby boomers. We have those making money to be the late baby boomers and early x generations. Let those people drive the market by producing product that they will consume. We are past the Jelly bean years. Time for a mgmt change that I believe the younger mgmt at GM can deliver on. Step aside Lutz, Step aside Wagoner, time for a true changing of the guard. B) Sales & Marketing MUST work with R&D to WIN. Microsoft has shown us that this combination can and continues to be a winning formula. Something many companies miss or lack a part of.

<_< As long as I can get my Duramax in a Suburban or Denali I am happy! :P So far except for Caddy and the Corvette. Not any of the current car's blow air up my pants. They are all boring and dull. So kill them, kill them all and bring out some global RWD quality exciting car's for each division after they kill Buick and Pontiac. Chevy - entry division Saturn - step up from Chevy GMC - professional Grade Caddy - Luxury level. The New GM! :)

500 <_< Another BORING car equal to the Camry, civic, etc. Ford needs to wake up to rear wheel drive and some exciting sheet metal. <_< The 2006 auto season will be an interesting one, I think we will see many things fail, not because of quality but because of lack of excitement. Wrong product made for the market. Motor Trend auto of the year. Got my latest edition in the mail last night. <_< The BUTT UGLY Civic is their pick as best. The review was a joke as they need to keep their asian paying friends happy. <_<

:lol: Yup you are right, I just did not pick up on the title that was used. Thanks for the heads up. :P

GM slashes Jobs and closes plants by end of 2006 We'll I for one was calling for Wagoner to step down, This just might be what saves his ass! Unlike the multiple years, 21 plants closed and 74K layed off starting in 1991. This one year big change could really improve things fast for GM. Be interesting as to how they handle the UAW. The UAW plans to fight this it sounds like. Sound off, do you think this is a good move or bad move for GM? Do you think they need to go deeper? Sounds like the SSR will be dead with the closing of the Michigan Craft Center. What are your thoughts? :CG_all:

True, but at Least I have to give Honda the aknowledgement that they talk about the performance gain on the accord. Toyota, just outright lies about the Highlander Hybrid and say's all is good for everyone when that is not really the picture of what they have done. Either way, truth seems harder to get across than lies. Sad the marketing state we are in. Even with the Toyota Prius getting nailed in CA for the actual fuel consumption of only low 40's MPG does not seem to make people or the press scream louder. <_<

As already stated, GM is building Luxury condo's on one site, I know they have a couple of mall's being built on two other sites. If you look at all the realstate that GM own's, they can do many things with the old closed down sites that can bring in cash flow. Reality is everyone is in the business to make a buck, some are short time others thinking long term. Reality is GM board needs to make a change and Wagoner is the lamb to be sacrificed.

<_< Puleaseeeee Hybrid are a marketing Exercise in distractive lying. Look at all the toxic compounds it takes to build the battery packs, extra electric parts etc. The autos create just as much toxic waste if not more than is saved by the hybrid system. Let the uninformed waste their money. A coworker traded his Highlander SUV in for the HYBID version and spent the extra 12K the dealer demanded for it. Reality check, 2 months later he is madder than a hornet as he only got a lousy 2 mile per gallon more in driving it. yea the 0-60 times are 2+ seconds faster than the non hybrid version but the end result is it is a marketing tool. No real benefits! IMO <_<

:huh: Really, this whole HHR thing is surprising, I have seen 2 on the road here in Seattle Washington and 1 at our auto show a week ago. I have been by 3 chevy dealers and not a one had an HHR. They just do not seem to be any around here. The Cobalt on the other hand is HOT here. :P You find those babies every were and a ton of kids are trading in those junky Honda's for them also. :D My own son who liked the 240SX and the 300Z as his favorite cars has decided he likes the cobalt more and wants the SS after having sat in it at the AutoShow. He also loves the Saturn Ion. :P These cars will help out the General greatly. :D IMO

<_< I think most people here will realize that a change is in order, Wagoner had his chance and has pretty much wasted it. Unfortunate but true, the older people get, the more unwilling to change. In this regards it takes a person that is not affraid to force change. Kerkorian while not the most loved business man, has actually done allot for society. For the ultra liberals that feel he should be giving hand out to the poor, you will not find this from this man. What you will find is business that generate profits and create jobs. This grows the working class and stability of this country. If the people on the side of the road are too lazy to take a job at McDonalds or a job at one of Kerkorians companies then they get what they deserve. He is doing what really helps this country, Investing to grow business that create jobs. Yes Profit is a means that all investors and owners want, the reality is if it can be done with a long term view that benefits everyone and Kerkorian seems to be able to achieve this. IMO Kerkorian represented by York on the board will be a good thing for GM. Clean out those that are dragging their feet, close down the useless plants and streamline. Take a page from the little that GM has done and redesign the plants into other uses, mall's, apartments, etc. There are great ways for GM to still keep the land or turn it into some other profit means. Long Live the General! B)

:P Too True Future of GM, so much self opinion that it can not be considered an evaluation of our educational system, but then if we just go on peoples writing and spelling, mine is bad I know it, then maybe we have left many behind. :lol: