CaddyXLR-V

You work in the aftermarket business don't you? That's probably why you hear so much about HP being capped. The aftermarket parts maker probably want that to happen, because they stand the most to gain. HP limited to 200? Go to the aftermarket shop and add a turbo.

"Reports that "GMC is going away are just unfounded, unsubstantiated and untrue," LaNeve said." That's still not very reassuring about Pontiac.

I hope so. I have seriously considered buying a G8, but wont as long as GM is considering dropping Pontiac. That, and I'm trying to reduce my monthly payments as much as possible right now. Though I plan on being ready to buy within 6mo-2 years. If GM gets committed to Pontiac by then, there's a strong chance I will buy one. I've already taken a hit on the value of my GTO, and I'm not going to buy a new G8 just to take an additional hit if Pontiac is dropped.

So you want to drop the G8 and change it to a Chevy, so Chevy will get to lose 250,000 Impala sales. Great idea. Mustang V6s sell because they are cheap, not because people pick them over a GT. Using that reasoning, no one in the younger generation is interested in BMWs, they all want Corollas. Do you realize how much people under 25 pay for insurance for Mustang GTs and Camaros? I looked up a Mustang GT for me, and they want over $400 per MONTH. My GTO is $200. I guarantee a Camaro with a V8 will be over $400 also. Do you think that has an effect on why it seems like younger people don't care about performance?

That doesn't mean it will happen, and it doesn't mean the people of this country will let it happen.

I think GM just sucks at marketing. They seem to have no clue what sporty means, they just use it on everything.

Again, it's back to the government. Someone needs to put up the financing to keep them running through bankruptcy. If the Unions and debt holders won't give in, what lender is going to put up the money? The only one that would is the government, and they will most likely force some changes as well. No one will come out of bankruptcy with 100% of what they went in with, including the union. They may end up with even less than what Fiat would be willing to give.

I just don't get how the market is getting more fragmented because everyone is looking for a vehicle that suits them better, but getting rid of brands is supposed to help.

They were made up. But it still holds true. Denali buyers on average make more than Escalade buyers. The Denali line sells for close to the same price as the Escalade line as well. Those buyers probably won't buy an Escalade because it's too flashy, and wont buy a Chevy because it's too mainstream.

If you own a Chevy, and you have a choice to sell it for $20,000, or spend $100 to change it into a GMC which you can sell for $24,000, which choice would you take? Sales records mean nothing. I supposed Toyota should never have made a Lexus version of the Land Cruiser either? Chevy can't be everything to everyone, no matter how hard they try. There will always be people who want a less common vehicle, or people that avoid pedestrian brands, whether that brand is Toyota or Chevy. But they might buy a GMC, even at a higher price. The Denali brings in buyers with more money than Escalade buyers. Think about that for a minute.

Exactly. Even as recent as a few years ago when GM turned a small profit, the Union used that as proof they should get raises. If Toyota makes a 10B profit, and GM makes 1B, the Union still sees that as proof they should get their share of it, even though they already make more than the Toyota workers. The rest of the country sees that as a company falling behind.

Good bye GM. Why not just rename the whole company Chevy? That's basically what's going on anyway. Toyota does it.

Your mistaken. The American companies fell further, and further behind. That is part of the reason they are in the situation they are in now. They should have allowed the company to get stronger, before they took as much as they could from them. They were basically stealing from the safes in a sinking ship.

Corvette can stay at Chevy, because it is basically a value priced sports car. My idea for Pontiac's halo would start about the same price as the Corvette, but mid engine, with less power for the base model such as a 330hp 3.6L, then a 450hp TT 3.6L for about $15,000 more. It won't be as budget priced as the Corvette, but it will be more sophisticated. So for people who wont consider a pushrod V8, they might consider a twin turbo race ready DOHC V6. Before anyone says it, I realize this would never happen. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't.

The govt still can't force a company from another country to cave in to the Union. The Union will need to back down, because the govt isn't coming to their rescue. The govt won't continue bailing out a company with billions just because a union doesn't want to face the times. The only other option is bankruptcy, and there's no telling if that will mean liquidation or restructuring. Also, if the govt were to give in after the whining from the union, there will be a backlash from the other 99% of the population who is fighting to keep their much lower paying jobs, or currently looking for work.

I think there needs to be additional training all around. As you said, large trucks can be rented with a license and credit card, what makes that worse is that it is so easy to get a license.

Does GM make cube shaped mini vehicles that fit the Japanese market? Also, GM is at a competitive disadvantage because they pay for healthcare where most other countries that's paid by the govt. Your not proposing turning the US into Japan are you?

I'm sure they would, even though they don't even compete with Porsche. XLR is a direct competitor to the SL, not a 911. That's the only Cadillac that is remotely comparable to a Porsche.

I'm surprised by the positive responses of turning Pontiac into a Porsche fighter. I was expecting the idea to get shot down by everyone. Since I have a newly aquired appreciation of Porsche, and love mid/rear-engine cars, and Pontiac is my favorite brand, if you put those things together I would be the happiest person in the world. I'm salivating over the thought of a ME twin turbo 3.6L Pontiac. Rebuild the engine to race specs and increase the redline to about 7500, and it could be putting out 450hp.

The bottom line is that American companies need to innovate, and find a way to make it work in the system they play in, not try to change the system.

I think it was the dealers that forced this. I doubt anyone within Pontiac itself was excited about this decision. I blame GM, trying for short term profits in exchange for long term damage.

I agree. And if we have been in a trade war for decades, how has it harmed us? We are still the largest economy by far. Do we really want the rest of the world to be much poorer than us? Look at our southern border and the drug wars going on down there. Is that desirable?

The union needs to know what it feels like to be bullied while they have no control. They have been doing it to companies for decades when they held all the power. The tables simply have turned.

I see it as more of a long term goal. Keep the G8, and Solstice for now, cut the rest. When times are better, a GTO and other cars can be developed.

I've been thinking the same thing. Though my ideas go a bit further, and actually require mid-engine platforms, which obviously couldn't happen right away, but would be the end goal. The GTO and G8 would stay front engine, while Solstice would go mid engine. There would also be a car above the GTO, basically a higher tech higher priced mid engine Corvette, Pontiac's halo car. If Pontiac is so worthless, maybe GM would consider giving the brand to me