Chazman

Honestly, I've been so overexposed to this car, it already seems old to me. I'll be going to Indy Friday with about 40-50 people from my Camaro club, so we'll see if the production version still has any visual interest for me. We'll see. Anyways, I think this car's position will be increasingly more untenable as the years click by. Forget the V8, the V6 will be CAFE negative on the first day of production. By 2011 it'll be 5 MPG below CAFE, by 2012, 7 MPG below. All this while the Camaro is the lone Zeta at the Oshawa line, which was designed for 400,000 units. I just hope GM can squeeze a decent 2 - 3 years out of this car, before a more appropriate 6th gen comes.

Actually, that would be fine by me. Well, it'd be tough to do a Mini, since Mini has alot of it's own heritage to feed off of. But a Scion has lots of potential I think. Of course, GM would need focus Pontiac that way - and I mean for longer than say 6 months. .

That's contrary to PCS's assertion. Anyway, let's hope that's not the case, since I just can't see "huge sales" with this car. In fact, I can't even see GM reaching their stated sales goal of 100,000 units. It's amazing to me that GM was so tied to Zeta for the Camaro. I mean, even on the cancelled GMX284 program, everyone knew that it was grossly overweight. Everyone knew it! And yet when work started again, GM went down the same road with this Camaro. I mean, WTF! What would have Pete Estes or John Delorean or Arkus Duntov or Vince Piggins have said if they were around to see a two ton Camaro? I suspect the sh!t would have hit the fan - big time!

Sure hope they do it right.

One of everything? I've heard talk that Chevy may get more than just one Alpha.....

Chicago must love G8's. I see at least one or two every day.

My concern is that if this car doesn't perform in sales, some within GM will argue that the Camaro is not worth replacing.

Nope. Just considering it.

I agree. I hope this car does well, but I just don't see it having the legs for that now. Being the sole remaining Zeta at Oshawa is not good news for it either. I hope it does well enough that the Camaro brand will survive.......

Simple question.... (Must be hot stuff, since this poll was locked on another site)

Like most of us, that day will always be etched in my memory. Never Forget.

How will Chevrolet's input affect Alpha? And do you think GM would budget enough resources into Alpha to do it right?

Just curious in your personal view on this PCS... How will Alpha differ if developed by Cadillac vs Holden?

No doubt in my mind that the Torana concept was the spark which conceptualized Alpha.

BTW, AFAIK, Alpha was ALWAYS going to be developed in North America.

The problem with Zeta is that it's just too damned heavy. This was THE BIG ISSUE with it from the beginning. Even with the former GMX284 and 282 programs. Those cars were coming in hundreds of pounds over target - as did the Camaro. Before CAFE and $4 gas, GM felt that it could squeak by, even with too much mass. No longer. For Zeta, the handwriting is on the wall. Right now, I'm putting all of my hopes into Alpha.

Oh man, that's funny!

I think Alpha by 2010 is alittle early. Would be great if that were the case though. Caddy really needs it NOW and the 5th gen Camaro could not be more wrong for the times.

Considering that all the other Zeta 2's are essentially dead... and this Camaro weighs nearly two tons just when consumers are shunning such products.... and it will be CAFE negative just as CAFE averages are set to increase... AND........... GM will soon seek to spread costs on Alpha's development..... I'd say, no, it's not too early to talk about a 6th gen.

Considering that all the other Zeta 2's are essentially dead... and this Camaro weighs nearly two tons just when consumers are shunning such products.... and it will be CAFE negative just as CAFE averages are set to increase... AND........... GM will soon seek to spread costs on Alpha's development..... I'd say, no, it's not too early to talk about a 6th gen.

Just to play devil's advocate, how would you justify a V8 in an Alpha Camaro?

The 3.0L wil be standard in the CTS wagon.

I was just thinking about some of the upcoming and possible future engines in the pipeline, which would be applicable to a 6th gen Camaro. If we assume that a 6th gen is even coming, we can also assume that this car will be smaller and lighter than the 5th gen. Let's call it 180-185" in overall length and 3200 -3500 lbs, depending on equipment. This lower mass opens up all sorts of opportunities for some interesting, fun to drive, and economical combos. Here are some engines off the top of my head: - GDI 2.3L I4, 210-230 hp. - GDI 2.0L turbo I4, 260-300 hp. - GDI 3.0L V6, 255-285 hp. - GDI 2.8L turbo V6, 350 hp. - GDI 3.0/3.6L turbo V6, 400-430 hp. (cancelled) - GDI 3.6L V6, 300-330 hp. - GDI Gen V smallblock V8 5.0-5.7L 400-450 hp. A new, smaller, lighter Camaro could be motivated very effectively with a 2.3L Ecotec. Fun to drive and 35 mpg. The prime mover could be the upcoming 3.0L V6. Enough power and torque to move an option laden Camaro with authority, and still get well over 30 mpg. An entry level performance version could use a 2.0L turbo/2.8L V6 turbo/ NA 3.6. I'm not sure which one of these to go with. And finally the performance Z/28 version. I'm still holding out for a smallblock. A 5.xL, direct injected, Gen V smallblock with the power of an LS3, in a tidy 3400 pound package, gives me goosebumps. It would probably get around 30 mpg too. Discuss....

Afew things to consider: 1) GM is cash strapped. 2) The BIG money on the DTS replacement was not yet spent. 3) Big cars are not selling well. 4) The DTS replacement wasn't going to get a V8. 5) Right now, THE MOST IMPORTANT program Caddy could be working on is Alpha. Maybe the plan here is to divert some or all of this funding towards Alpha. To be a global player - and even for better NA penetration, Caddy needs Alpha like yesterday. A family of Alphas. Sedan/coupe/convertible/wagon is what Caddy needs NOW. Not a large, 118" wheelbase, V6 sedan - with a dwindling buyer base.

I think that the "merging" is more just a next gen architecture more than anything else. AFAIK, it's still on for after 2015. Did GM REALLY need to spend money on two large car architectures though? Kinda dumb.