Croc

No no you have me mistaken for Sandra Lee. It's not really like that.

Ehhhh...despite all the hand-wringing in American media, many of my acquaintances around the globe (including some in the Middle East) have told me that international reaction is more akin to a yawn than anything else. I'm not really worried about it. Honestly, is any of this that much of a surprise to anyone?? It wasn't to me.

I'm pretty ambivalent on wikiLeaks as well.

I want to see a new El Camino. Will it have a midgate? That would be awesome if it did; no need for a small truck lineup if the weekend warriors can extend the bed into the cab for big pieces of plywood from Home Depot.

Eh...I think the mistake had to do with cheapening out on the details. I don't think the actual DESIGN of the production vehicle is what put off buyers, but rather the cheap details. For example, the Malibu and MAXX had jeweled taillight lenses, yet the G6 had very flat ones. Cheap and dated at launch--very 90s. Mostly, though, the interior is what held it back. That interior was cheap, grey plastic. The design lacked cohesion, and the panels/flow of design elements was abysmal, making it look like it had very poor build quality even when assembled impeccably. Honestly, it was a bigger Sunfire in so many ways, and that just wasn't acceptable for the market segment, let alone for the hard-top convertible option!! Those hardtop convertibles were expensive, yet they had the same $h!ty interior as a base G6 costing at least $15k less.

What, no Bel Air love?

Why haven't you upgraded to 7? Best Windows EVER!!

And that's all completely valid--as I said, YMMV. Just trying to further explain the sentiment that seems to be shared amongst a few of us.

I disagree. There's always room to debate future product plans, discuss business cases or speculate on which segments GM needs to pay more attention to. HOWEVER repetitively complaining about something that is a done deal, such as closing a division, or bemoaning the loss of BOF pillarless hardtop convertibles, adds no real value to any discussion. This is DIFFERENT than "Closing __ division was a mistake IMO because of X, Y and Z" or "GM lost its way when it shifted its product mix at the Arlington plant because __ ." The repetitive whining is along the lines of "GM closed __ and I'm never going to buy another one again!" or "I haven't been interested in a GM vehicle since the 1967 __ ." In other words, they might as well be still stuck on LaSalle. That ship has sailed, and it's not coming back. MOVE ON!! There's plenty of current GM news and product developments to talk about and debate, whether it's the Zeta sagas or the possibility of a civilian Caprice, or what-have-you. But refusing to be interested in, say, a civilian Caprice solely because it doesn't have an arrowhead on the hood and stating that opinion in EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. about the rumored civilian Caprice...well that's repetitive and doesn't really add to the discussion anymore. Of course, YMMV, but I think this is what FAPTurbo was getting at.

Taken out of context as you just did, of course that seems contradictory. That is why yours is a straw-man argument. What I actually said is quite different (emphasis added): There's the key clause right there: if someone makes a reasoned post, objectively iterating WHY they have the (subjective) opinion they have concluded to themselves, I do believe it is pretty weak to just down-rate it without adding to the discussion in any way. I don't down-rate a post unless it's the equivalent of "you're wrong" without explanation, or is just repetitive whining about the same thing over and over. I just don't have that inclination. If I post a reasoned post, though, and someone down-rates it and doesn't actually respond to any of the objective observations or philosophical points, I don't really care enough to get upset over it BECAUSE I view it as intellectually-weak debating--assuming I even notice in the first place. There, does that clarify it enough?

Sorry, BV...have to disagree with you a bit. I just reviewed the entire thread. The majority of people don't seem to have a problem with the system, or even *gasp* like it. Then you have Camino posting that he doesn't like it over and over and over. No one started giving attitude until the discussion became repetitive and circular...after Camino expressed his sentiment for the fourth time in less than 2 pages. I also don't think name-calling is a hallmark of civil discussion. Just sayin...

Really? This is really necessary?? Now we have TWO threads bitching about the same thing.

Pretty much. WAHHHHHHH!! I'M A VICTIM!! WAAAAAAAH!! I'M OVER IT There's no point to all this negativity, whining and bitching. MOVE ON with your life. GET A HOBBY. By the way, you need to add Oldsmobile to your list because after 10 years I'm super over it, and I'm a current owner!!

Name-calling isn't exactly high-level discourse, now is it? I think this is actually a pretty ridiculous thread, to be honest. I've yet to see any evidence of a problem this is causing. Again, I think this must just be a slow day or something. What inhospitable environment? What detrimental effect? I've seen no evidence of such. "Savaged"? By a little (usually green and positive) number in the lower right-hand corner of their post? Why stop the hyperbole there? Let's call this what it really is: systematic disenfranchisement of a vulnerable minority population at the hands of the public at large! Quick, where's the ACLU hotline number?? ...by up- or down-rating a post? Really? OMG someone disagreed with me...now I'm only gonna post at GM Source!! Lighten up...it's the internet. And I can't say I hold much regard for anyone who's so thin-skinned that they got upset over a down-rated post. My unpopular, but reasoned, opinions get down-rated all the time, and I just laugh it off as someone without the intellect to actually debate me on my views...assuming I even notice/care in the first place.

WHY does it need to be defended? You don't like it--so don't use it. Simple as that. Yes, you aren't alone in your thinking, but you are only joined by a handful of others. Most people don't care about it one way or another, and my anecdotal observation seems to show it is generally POSITIVE feedback that is meted rather than negative. Now, let's see the positives of the feedback: Positive saves an endless stream of "+1" or "I agree completely" posts after a particularly good post, and the negative saves on "I completely disagree you idiot" type posts, which often escalate into flames. By nature, this is a democratic, social medium, so that the post ratings are reflective of a popularity contest is no different than the posters or posts: see smk. Honestly? I don't buy this stifling of viewpoints argument at all. Have some strength of conviction and, yet again, DON'T TAKE THE INTERNET SO SERIOUSLY. If a few posts here and there with -2s and -3s or even a -12 (as I saw on one of smk's posts once) are what makes you, a grown-ass man, want to pick up your proverbial ball and go home because your viewpoints weren't agreed upon by everyone here, big effing deal. Hell, I'd have been gone a loooooooooooooooooooong time ago if I took this site so personally.

Seriously...see Olds' post way up there: TAKING THIS WAY TOO SERIOUSLY

Wow must be a good day if you have to resort to the post rating system to get your bitch on...

Original SRX, i.e. a RWD crossover built to out-seat and handle on-par with the X5.

Hideous. What's with all the excessive brightwork?

As a former Catholic... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Um, yeah...good luck explaining the sheer exhilaration of driving to someone who doesn't feel it.

Except for what? The Aspen/Durango twins were failures and extremely odd-looking, the Ram became an also-ran in the F-150/Silverado competition, Challenger still looks like an unfinished, undetailed clay model and really isn't setting sales charts afire, Jeep certainly fell from grace by losing the whole "off-road: standard" and getting the homely Compass, and I have yet to see a single Journey in LA, even one with enterprise stickers. There was no meaningful differentiation with the old product for Chrysler. Look at Ford and the Fusion/Milan (first gen) for the complete converse of what Chrysler did: Ford took one car and used almost EVERYTHING identically on the outside, but made an extra cut here and there and mixed and matched the panels to accommodate differently-shaped head- and tail-lights. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT and yet bam the two cars didn't look like complete clones. Yet here's Chrysler actually spending money on completely different, non-interchangeable parts for almost everything yet they look the same to the average eye at first glance. That's a major f@#kup. Dude I saw plenty of CGIs when the turd Sebring came out making its &#036;h&#33; interior look absolutely luxurious. Don't give me CGIs and ask me to compare them. I'll be at the LAIAS soon enough and truuuuuust me I will let everyone know just how far behind Toyota and Chrysler are with their interiors.

Still won't be anything half as good as what's coming out of GM...or Hyundai for that matter. Sorry, but Chrysler is so far behind the rest of the industry I don't see them lasting very long. Had I been in charge, they would not have been bailed out...again. Decent history, cool they invented the minivan, but honestly they've been pretty irrelevant since the bad Benz deal. 300 was a flash in the pan, and the rest has been odd at best, and abysmally missing the mark at worst.

DF is right. You are also right, however, because while the two interiors are different, the differentiation was stupid because it goes under the heading of "no one notices because it still looks the same." Like the center stack. Looks the same. Except it isn't, because the Sebring's inlaid clock means the HVAC equipment has to be moved as the vents are further apart. That costs money, but like two people notice it. Same with the steering wheels. Those are two totally different steering wheels, yet they look the same. Definitely not interchangeable-except-for-the-logo, but can anyone tell? No. It's like one of those stupid "Can you spot all the differences?" sets of photos, except they actually are materially different, but the colors, textures and cheapness is the same so they come off the same. And that's why Chrysler is utterly stupid--GM took the same damn interior on the lambdas and made minor changes resulting in the Buick looking premium compared to the Saturn/GMC/Chevy. And none of those 3 really get accused as clones either. Yet the interiors are almost identical. Yet Chrysler goes to the trouble to create two completely different interiors yet they both look like the same POS junk. Total waste of money.