Buick's Future May Be Chinese!

[InvictaMan]

Buick may be sold to Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC). To get the details, read the article linked below.

The rapidly slimming General Motors might soon cast off another brand, according to a Chinese media report. General Motors is considering selling its Buick division to the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC), according to financial newspaper the Shanghai Securities News.

The deal could potentially involve a sale the Buick name only, or it could include the sale of plants, tooling, and designs to SAIC. Buick is extremely popular in China, despite its relatively limited success in America.

The Obama administration has apparently asked General Motors to slim to just three brands, the report says. With the Hummer brand up for sale, Saab’s future in question, Saturn likely to be spun-off or killed, Pontiac being phased out, and Opel potentially for sale, it’s easy to see how this might be achieved. In fact, wouldn’t be surprised if Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC are the only brands left standing when the dust settles.

General Motors is hoping to restructure to the satisfaction of the Obama administration by the end of May, in order to receive more government aid. If this fails, GM will be forced into Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings.

Although the sale of Buick is strictly a rumor at this time, it opens the door to a great deal of speculation. For example, what would happen to Buick’s stylish new U.S.-specific 2010 LaCrosse? We’re pretty sure GM would not scrap the model entirely. Could it become a Chevrolet? We wouldn’t rule that out.

Link to Leftlane article HERE.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Dodgefan

[Camino LS6]

Not good.

[Robert Hall]

Interesting..well, Buick does currently does more sales volume in the China than the US, don't they?

[Camino LS6]

Interesting..well, Buick does currently does more sales volume in the China than the US, don't they?

Yes, which is one reason this isn't good news. China is Buick's sole reason to be, and means major profits for GM in an expanding market.

[CaddyXLR-V]

At this point I hope Pontiac gets sold too. I even think Hyundai would manage the brand better than GM has.

Actually, I'm hoping GMNA goes under, Holden buys Pontiac, ships their cars here and rebrands them as Pontiacs.

Edited April 8, 2009 by CaddyXLR-V

[Intrepidation]

Wouldn't doubt it, look at their Genesis Coupe. It's affordable performance. Wasn't that the idea behind Pontiac?

[Camino LS6]

At this point I hope Pontiac gets sold too. I even think Hyundai would manage the brand better than GM has.

Actually, I'm hoping GMNA goes under, Holden buys Pontiac, ships their cars here and rebrands them as Pontiacs.

I'd sign up for the Holden thing Immediately.

But, losing Buick seals the fate of Pontiac and GMC - not good.

[Robert Hall]

At this point I hope Pontiac gets sold too. I even think Hyundai would manage the brand better than GM has.

Actually, I'm hoping GMNA goes under, Holden buys Pontiac, ships their cars here and rebrands them as Pontiacs.

Problem is, the only thing Holden has of value are the Commodore and Caprice/Statesman lines...and Pontiac already has the G8. The rest of Holden's line are just Opel rebadges and generic Chevy/Daewoo FWD crap...

[Johnny Quest]

At first I thought, I don't buy it. There's no reason to. But then again everything is for sale at a price. The real question is what's Buick worth to the Chinese...$5B, $10B, 20B$? If it's closer to the upper end, I could see it happening. GM wouldn't leave China though - maybe GM gives up Buick and continues to grow Chev in China with the DAT stuff and puts Cadillac up against Buick?

The reference to "three brands" in the US makes sense if it's Chev, Cadillac and PBG. But then again, the only real winner Buick has in the US right now is the Enclave. Is there time to rebadge the LaCrosse as a Caprice? Or, maybe a Bonneville? I would hate to strand GMC dealers on their own in that it only sells trucks - so that can't be a serious option.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I'd sign up for the Holden thing Immediately.

But, losing Buick seals the fate of Pontiac and GMC - not good.

I don't know, I don't really see any upside in Buick. I don't see Buick catching on and taking the sales Pontiac loses. If Pontiac loses the G5, G6, Vibe, those sales will probably go to Chevy, not Buick. I think Pontiac could survive with GMC if given the right products, with or without Buick.

[Camino LS6]

Problem is, the only thing Holden has of value are the Commodore and Caprice/Statesman lines...and Pontiac already has the G8. The rest of Holden's line are just Opel rebadges and generic Chevy/Daewoo FWD crap...

That's not a bad place to start, Holden regularly trounces BMW down under, it would be fun to watch them give it a try here.

And I'd help. :AH-HA_wink:

[Johnny Quest]

I don't think Holden would import into the US, they're not low enough on the cost side - the duties would kill them.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Problem is, the only thing Holden has of value are the Commodore and Caprice/Statesman lines...and Pontiac already has the G8. The rest of Holden's line are just Opel rebadges and generic Chevy/Daewoo FWD crap...

Well if Holden gets a piece of Alpha, and keeps Zeta, Pontiac could have a full line up of each. midsize coupe sedan and wagon/hatch, and fullsize sedan coupe ute and wagon.

[Camino LS6]

I don't know, I don't really see any upside in Buick. I don't see Buick catching on and taking the sales Pontiac loses. If Pontiac loses the G5, G6, Vibe, those sales will probably go to Chevy, not Buick. I think Pontiac could survive with GMC if given the right products, with or without Buick.

I see only a tiny chance of that working, and you'd have to change Pontiac back into a full lineup to make it possible.

No, I think Pontiac and GMC would go away.

[Camino LS6]

I don't think Holden would import into the US, they're not low enough on the cost side - the duties would kill them.

That all depends on the exchange rate - which is quite good at the moment.

And I think most (if not all) of the duties have been eliminated.

[Johnny Quest]

That all depends on the exchange rate - which is quite good at the moment.

And I think most (if not all) of the duties have been eliminated.

I'm not sure. I thought there was at least 2.5% from down under = $500 on $20k. Also, depends on where the Aussie dollar is in comparison.

[Johnny Quest]

Also made me wonder. If the Ute is classed as a truck, wouldn't the duty be a lot higher. Maybe that's what killed it from coming to the US.

[Robert Hall]

Also made me wonder. If the Ute is classed as a truck, wouldn't the duty be a lot higher. Maybe that's what killed it from coming to the US.

Could be... it's too bad the wagon couldn't come to the US as a G8 sportwagon and the Caprice/Statesman as a Chevy Caprice or Lucerne replacement.

Not going to happen, now, so much Zeta potential and possibilities that have been lost--just water under the bridge, as the GM bridges over troubled water collapse........as the GM bus heads off the freeway onto the exit ramp to nowhere.. (yeah, all getting metaphorical..)

Edited April 8, 2009 by moltar

[Camino LS6]

Also made me wonder. If the Ute is classed as a truck, wouldn't the duty be a lot higher. Maybe that's what killed it from coming to the US.

No.

Those were lifted or it would not have been planned for our market at all.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Holden buys Pontiac, ships their cars here and rebrands them as Pontiacs.

:rotflmao: go to http://www.notgoingtohappen.com

[CaddyXLR-V]

:rotflmao: go to http://www.notgoingtohappen.com

Yes, because that would make too much sense. I don't actually think it will happen, but I would be happy if it did.

[Camino LS6]

Yes, because that would make too much sense. I don't actually think it will happen, but I would be happy if it did.

+1

I'd have a new place to hang my automotive hat.

[deftonesfan867]

Not sure how I feel about this. Selling our domestic soul to the Chinese. Well, if it happens we can only blame ourselves and GM for waiting decades to build Buicks people here would want...

[Intrepidation]

Not sure how I feel about this. Selling our domestic soul to the Chinese. Well, if it happens we can only blame ourselves and GM for waiting decades to build Buicks people here would want...

Yup.

[SoCalCTS]

This actually makes more sense than selling the other brands. After all, Buick is the stodgiest of all the GM brands. No one takes it seriously except for the die hard blue hairs.

It will be sad to see GM systematically dismantled but its better than losing the whole company. I would hate to see GM lose its position in China. They need to work something out to stay ahead in the emerging Chinese market.

[CSpec]

Sad, but probably necessary. Just giving Buick good product like the Enclave and new Lacrosse isn't enough to generate sales and image: just ask Saturn. Saving Buick in North America would require great product, dealers, marketing, and patience. GM doesn't have the money or the time to make this happen.

[Camino LS6]

Sad, but probably necessary. Just giving Buick good product like the Enclave and new Lacrosse isn't enough to generate sales and image: just ask Saturn. Saving Buick in North America would require great product, dealers, marketing, and patience. GM doesn't have the money or the time to make this happen.

Sobering, isn't it?

[z28luvr01]

The Obama administration has apparently asked General Motors to slim to just three brands, the report says.

If that is true, GM needs to make the case that BPG is for all intents and purposes one brand. So shedding Saturn, Saab, and Hummer, and eliminating model overlap in all channels should satisfy that requirement.

[CaddyXLR-V]

This actually makes more sense than selling the other brands. After all, Buick is the stodgiest of all the GM brands. No one takes it seriously except for the die hard blue hairs.

It will be sad to see GM systematically dismantled but its better than losing the whole company. I would hate to see GM lose its position in China. They need to work something out to stay ahead in the emerging Chinese market.

I think it makes more sense too. Cadillac should be GM's luxury brand in China, not Buick.

[Camino LS6]

If that is true, GM needs to make the case that BPG is for all intents and purposes one brand. So shedding Saturn, Saab, and Hummer, and eliminating model overlap in all channels should satisfy that requirement.

Agreed.

But can the senators, and the media, and the sheeple be convinced?

[vonVeezelsnider]

Guess I wasn't that far off last night...

Oh well, Chevrolet + Cadillac I guess.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

This is just getting stupid....

The Obama administration wants GM at 3 divisions? ORLY? I thought they weren't "in the business of running car companies"

And besides, what the hell is the point of GMC without Pontiac or GMC. Not to mention, this KILLS GM's global presence, so what the f*ck is thee point anyway? Do they think GM will survive on a DOWN NA market alone?!?!

Looks like the Obama administration is using this as an opportunity to euthanize GM and Chrysler, except make it appear as if the companies killed themselves.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

If that is true, GM needs to make the case that BPG is for all intents and purposes one brand. So shedding Saturn, Saab, and Hummer, and eliminating model overlap in all channels should satisfy that requirement.

+1...

I thought GM WAS at 3 divisions.

At this point, GM just needs to file Chapter 11 (and tell Obama to f*ck off) and save it's 5 remaining nameplates (purposely) and see what happens... That would be better than killing yourself while the people who have wanted you dead for 20 years watch in glee.

Edited April 8, 2009 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[CaddyXLR-V]

+1...

I thought GM WAS at 3 divisions.

At this point, GM just needs to file Chapter 11 (and tell Obama to f*ck off) and save it's 5 remaining nameplates (purposely) and see what happens... That would be better than killing yourself while the people who have wanted you dead for 20 years watch in glee.

The only problem is, the govt is most likely going to be giving GM it's DIP financing, unless GM can find financing somewhere else.

[Brougham-Holiday]

If GM sells Buick they can go f*** themselves because I;ll never buy one of their products. I already got F***ed when they shut down Oldsmobile, my dad feels f***ed because of all the crazyness around Pontiac (he bought a new one 1 1/2 yrs ago) and now Buick. I'm about ready to call it a day and head over to Chrysler or Ford.

[BuddyP]

Unbelievable. Well, this is the end of it all. "Sell" off all other brands so they become competiters. I have never seen such incompantance as Obama and his administration has. He has done more damage to this country in a couple months time than anybody has ever done in the past 200+ years. I can't even imagine what's going to happen in the next year let alone another almost 4 years. It can't come fast enough.

Sure glad Ford has improved as much as they have in the last few years, cause we'll all likley be driving them very soon.

Edited April 8, 2009 by BuddyP

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think it makes more sense too. Cadillac should be GM's luxury brand in China, not Buick.

You do realize there are historical factors as to why the Chinese prefer Buick over all other GM brands, don't you? You do know that GM went to the Chinese government and asked what brand would the Chinese people prefer to have in China out of all the brands that GM makes, don't you? The government had what amounted to GM brand screenings all over China and Buick was the people's choice. The Chinese had a love affair with Buick before Mao took control of China, so that was the Division the people of China remembered and wanted back in China. GM simply complied, after all 1,319,175,333 people can't be all wrong ...

[CaddyXLR-V]

You do realize there are historical factors as to why the Chinese prefer Buick over all other GM brands, don't you? You do know that GM went to the Chinese government and asked what brand would the Chinese people prefer to have in China out of all the brands that GM makes, don't you? The government had what amounted to GM brand screenings all over China and Buick was the people's choice. The Chinese had a love affair with Buick before Mao took control of China, so that was the Division the people of China remembered and wanted back in China. GM simply complied, after all 1,319,175,333 people can't be all wrong ...

Yes, and that's why they should sell it to them for as much money as they can get. You do realize there was a time before Toyota sold a single car in the US right? There was a time when Lexus had zero sales also, and is now leading in sales of luxury vehicles. That was what, 20 years ago?

[CaddyXLR-V]

Ford has historical factors in the US also. Look at where they are now.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Ford has historical factors in the US also. Look at where they are now.

How is that germane to China?

[CaddyXLR-V]

How is that germane to China?

Ford wasn't on top forever. Buick doesn't have to be either. Lexus came to the US and competed with established, historical brands, and took the sales crown in less than 20 years. GM should work on doing the same with Cadillac. Cadillac should be GM's top brand across the world, not just in the US.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Ford wasn't on top forever. Buick doesn't have to be either. Lexus came to the US and competed with established, historical brands, and took the sales crown in less than 20 years. GM should work on doing the same with Cadillac. Cadillac should be GM's top brand across the world, not just in the US.

In a perfect world that would be true, but as you know the world is not perfect ...

[gm4life]

Well I am not saying its good news, but I could have heard worse. I would really like to see BPG work, maybe it will just be PG, GMC is has alot less value without a car line. So you can only get trucks at those dealers? What are folks suppose to do run over and get a Chevrolet. I can't find dealers the BPG ones being real happy with JUST a truck line, and no cars. I hope it is Cadillac, Chevrolet and BPG, that would work well. I DON'T want Obama running an auto company. Let him ruin Toyota. Because BPG is ONE sales channel!

Edited April 8, 2009 by gm4life

[gm4life]

If that is true, GM needs to make the case that BPG is for all intents and purposes one brand. So shedding Saturn, Saab, and Hummer, and eliminating model overlap in all channels should satisfy that requirement.

Right on! I hope this is what happens.

[daves87rs]

Who would be dumb enough to buy Buick now?

I don't think anybody, unless GM really wants to lose their ass on this one...

[balthazar]

You do realize there are historical factors as to why the Chinese prefer Buick over all other GM brands, don't you? You do know that GM went to the Chinese government and asked what brand would the Chinese people prefer to have in China out of all the brands that GM makes, don't you? The government had what amounted to GM brand screenings all over China and Buick was the people's choice.

You do realize that none of the vehicles sold via the GM partnership in China were 'screened to the chinese people' in that none of those vehicles were built in the U.S. ?? There is no 'history' there relating to the NA market, it was a clean sheet start that still shares nothing with Buick NA.

[wildcat]

... China ... shares nothing with Buick NA.

Don't forget about the Enclave, now being sold in China.

[G. David Felt]

As much as I would hate to sell an American Company to the Chinese, this is actually a good idea. Sell them the current stuff and run.

As I ahve said in many other threads, GM only needs to be a Entry, mid level and Luxury high end 3 tier company.

Keep Chevy with the Eco box auto's start the Highschool kids and keep the hardworking blue coller crowd with these and show them the options of growing into the GMC Brand. Rename the 2010 Buick Lacross to the GMC "New Auto Name" Have GMC since they have the professional Grade and Luxury Denali line add a mid level luxury line of cars to compete against Lexus / Infinity. Then Caddy can totally focus on BMW / Mercedes.

Benefits is bigger marketing dollars to 3 units that can grow. Add all the great technology as options from the old dead name plates to these three. Chevy and GMC could offer the same killer offroad handling packages that were part of Hummer as an example.

I can see LOTS of good coming out of this and in the long term, GM could really focus on a Solid Single Global brand and auto story that could trump Toyota and others.

[cire]

This still seems a little ridiculous since Buick would give GM a way to earn more profit off their FWD platforms. Buick has a little more wiggle room than either Chevrolet or Pontiac to go upmarket and offer higher profit premium FWD vehicles. Buick could pick up the next gen Opels to complete its lineup and actually turn into something cool, relevant, and profitable for GM. If GM unloads it, it will be yet another missed opportunity for the corporation.

[balthazar]

>>"Don't forget about the Enclave, now being sold in China."<<

Finally... yet from the beginning all I've read is 'Buick can't die- it's huge in China!' but here we're possibly looking at a China Buick only and somehow that's not a worry.