It's official - GM to go to 4 brands

[BuddyP]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/officia...to-four-models/

Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC

Pontiac - Vibe, Solstice, G8, G5

I don't get it, why keep GMC? Why do you need GMC when all of those vehicles are covered by Chevy??? And if your going to limit Pontiac to a few vehicles why the hell keep the G5?? At least keep the G6 since it's a good seller and differetiates itself from the Aura and Malibu!!!!

[NOS2006]

Wow, didn't see that coming this morning. It's strange to see Saturn get eliminated as I see it positioned as the American Opel, but whatever. Hopefully this will help though with the way they've been focusing design and R&D efforts on Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac.

[Z-06]

Does anyone have a subscription for Automotive News? I want to see what actually Clarke talked about, not the Autoblog hodge-podge.

[z28luvr01]

Based on what's being said about Pontiac and Saturn, the left hand still doesn't know what the right hand is doing at GM.

[Drew Dowdell]

Two epsilons dead, a Kappa dead, a Delta dead, two Thetas dead, a Lambda dead.

[hyperv6]

The 4 Pontiacs are also a limited life.

G8 Zeta will be around how much longer?

Soltice without the Sky how much longer will it last 2012?

G5 will be gone with the Cobalt in what 2 years?

Vibe is not even a Pontiac let alone a GM car.

I give Pontiac 5 years if they have nothing planned to replace these models.

Might note here in town the largest Olds dealer bought a Buick and the largest Pontiac dealers before Olds was killed.

That same dealer just bought one of the largest Chevy dealers a few weeks ago. Hmmm Someone knows something!

GMC is around since they are high profit per unit. The G6 is dead because it is not high profit per unit with the number of fleet sales they have.

It is all about making money not what models or market share.

I expect more model cuts in the remaining brands too. No suprises here.

It is all about getting back to the basics and the core products that show profit.

[NOS2006]

Soltice without the Sky how much longer will it last 2012?

With a Kappa II platform possibly still in the works, sounds like the perfect case for a Chevrolet Kappa, eh?

[Drew Dowdell]

With a Kappa II platform possibly still in the works, sounds like the perfect case for a Cadillac Kappa, eh?

I agree completely.

[hyperv6]

With a Kappa II platform possibly still in the works, sounds like the perfect case for a Chevrolet Kappa, eh?

At a time GM has little money to get the Cruze out sooner I would not hold my breath for a two seater car. The Kappa is such a limited market in sales and profit GM has better things to dowith their limited funds.

A new Impala to compete with the new Tuarus is a much greater need than a 10,000 unit two seater.

At this point we will be lucky if we get a Alpha for Cadillac and for a 6th gen Camaro.

There are still a lot of changes to come yet. Time to stop dreaming and start thinking on what models will be profit centers.

If it make little or no money we don't sell it.

[NOS2006]

Alpha Cadillac sure as hell is still on. Camaro replacement on Alpha though, I have no idea.

[Drew Dowdell]

Alpha Cadillac sure as hell is still on. Camaro replacement on Alpha though, I have no idea.

Could Alpha support roadsters? They probably wouldn't be Miata competition anymore though....

[NOS2006]

Well, did a quick search and according to LLN and GMI, Kappa II was shelved although nothing was made official from GM:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-reportedly-...orm-the-ax.html

Also, a Wikipedia page on Alpha shows its supposed size constraints and says it could support Kappa vehicles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Alpha_platform

[toesuf94]

Chevrolet NOMAD on the Kappa platform...RWD Mini Cooper/ VW Beetle fighter. Market it as a commuter car for those of us that want a stylish car that will go from point a to point b and still be able to stop for groceries or Home Depot on the way home. Seats four, is a 4 cylinder RWD car that has sporting pretentions.

Anyone else think it would sell?

[BuddyP]

I can only imagine these choices have to do strictly with future model lineup (those that we have no info of). I still don't understand why GMC is being kept?? Does this mean every dealership will become a Chevy/GMC/Buick/Cadillac dealer?

[regfootball]

what GM will brand serve the younger mid size and compact demographic?

too many folks don't want a chevy. can't afford caddy. don't want a buick. there is no saturn or pontiac to plug that gap.

well, GM got the cash but now must bend to what everyone else wants.

here's the thing. saturn may just transfer ownership somehow because of their unique arrangement. are they neccessarily dead? GM already said they can't find a saab buyer. and pontiac still having 4 models etc. is not niche to me. maybe in volume, but the brand will still be there and need some marketing effort.

let's close down chrysler entirey please if we need to get rid of pontiac.

[Camino LS6]

Circling the drain...

[hyperv6]

At this point we all should be smart enough to know untlil it is in the show room there is sure thing including Alpha.

Odd are still good but in these times things change and changed fast.

If ther is more than one 2 seater in the future GM has won the lottery.

Untill the C7 comes off hold don't expect a second gen Solstice.

The Vette is a priortity the Solstice is not.

[titan]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/officia...to-four-models/

Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC

Pontiac - Vibe, Solstice, G8, G5

I don't get it, why keep GMC? Why do you need GMC when all of those vehicles are covered by Chevy??? And if your going to limit Pontiac to a few vehicles why the hell keep the G5?? At least keep the G6 since it's a good seller and differetiates itself from the Aura and Malibu!!!!

I agree. I guess GMC's profits warrants that it stays around. That said, I really don't see the point in keeping them either. I think it's wiser to let Chevy have all of the "real" trucks, and have a very luxurious version of the Silverado (like the F-150's Platinum trim). Buick's lineup should be fleshed out, and it both Buick and Caddy should only have crossovers for "trucks." I'd still love Buick to eventally get to three sedans, the Enclave and a baby Enclave, and a coupe. Caddy should have a lineup that rivals MB and BMW, period. Ofcourse, Chevy's optimal lineup needs no elaboration. I guess GMC and Buick will have a realtionship similar to LR/Jag, since it's confirmed GMC isn't going anywhere.

[Robert Hall]

I agree. I guess GMC's profits warrants that it stays around. That said, I really don't see the point in keeping them either. I think it's wiser to let Chevy have all of the "real" trucks, and have a very luxurious version of the Silverado (like the F-150's Platinum trim). Buick's lineup should be fleshed out, and it both Buick and Caddy should only have crossovers for "trucks." I'd still love Buick to eventally get to three sedans, the Enclave and a baby Enclave, and a coupe. Caddy should have a lineup that rivals MB and BMW, period. Ofcourse, Chevy's optimal lineup needs no elaboration. I guess GMC and Buick will have a realtionship similar to LR/Jag, since it's confirmed GMC isn't going anywhere.

Besides the profits--GMC also serves the same purpose to BPG franchises that the G3 and G5 do--gives them models to compete with Chevy.

[SoCalCTS]

Since there is no mention of Daewoo, Holden, Vauxhall or Opel, Why is everyone assuming that SAAB is going to be axed?

There is talks with the Swedish government to get additional funding for Saab. Just get rid of Pontiac now. It makes no sense to continue that brand.

Losing Saturn is fine. It can always come back as Opel in the future. Hopefully they can convert some of the Saturn dealerships to other brands since Saturn generally has nice modern facilites compared to the old run down Pontiac and Buick dealerships.

[DaveN308]

Does anyone have a subscription for Automotive News? I want to see what actually Clarke talked about, not the Autoblog hodge-podge.

Yep. Note the correction: Pontiac will be a six car line up: G8, G6, G5, Vibe, Solstice, and Solstice Hardtop.

Here's the link: Automotive News Article

Clarke: GM able to shrink to 4 core U.S. brands

Lutz: Pontiac to shrink to six-vehicle line

Jamie LaReau

Automotive News

January 12, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

UPDATED: 1/12/09 9:10 a.m. EST

DETROIT -- General Motors, seeking buyers for Saab and Hummer, will be able to follow through with plans to shrink to four core brands, North American President Troy Clarke says.

As part of the survival strategy submitted to Congress last month, GM said it intends to focus U.S. product and marketing resources on Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC. On Sunday at the Detroit auto show, Clarke said the company will be able to execute the plan, even as the global credit crisis chills merger and acquisition activity.

"We have to re-engineer the way we're doing business in many regards," Clarke said. "We're going to be a smaller company."

The automaker began a "strategic review" of the Hummer SUV line in June. Last week, GM sources told Automotive News that Sweden-based Saab has failed to attract suitors.

Meanwhile, Pontiac will dwindle to a six-vehicle line, Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said here in a separate interview on Sunday. The cars: the G6, G8, G5, Vibe, Solstice and Solstice hardtop coupe.

In the viability plan -- submitted as part of GM's effort to win $13.4 billion in federal bailout loans -- GM also said it would consider options for Saturn, without saying whether the line would be sold or shuttered.

"We've entered into a very, very open and candid dialogue with our Saturn retailers,'' Clarke said. Saturn, launched 19 years ago, has been successful in terms of brand attributes, he said. But "it just hasn't been a good business for us."

Saturn's only annual profit came in 1993.

"We need some breakthrough options here," Clarke said. "We can't continue brands that have no prospect of earning their way."

GM will be able to work within state franchise laws as it whittles its dealer count, Clarke said. GM has calculated the estimated costs, he said, without elaborating.

In the viability plan it submitted to Congress, GM said it planned to go from 6,600 dealers to 4,700 by 2012.

[NOS2006]

At this point we all should be smart enough to know untlil it is in the show room there is sure thing including Alpha.

Odd are still good but in these times things change and changed fast.

If ther is more than one 2 seater in the future GM has won the lottery.

Untill the C7 comes off hold don't expect a second gen Solstice.

The Vette is a priortity the Solstice is not.

C7 begins production in 2014.

[Z-06]

Thanks Dave.

It seems no brainer for me to see Pontiac having those vehicles. But what surprises me is their availibility timeframe is not mentioned, while no mention about G6 getting a full makeover on the new EPII. I think Saturn is almost dead and Chevy will carry the load of cheap alternatives, while Buick will fill the role of one step above Chevy essentially where Olds left and where Saturn wanted to be.

It seems like P-C-S was telling the truth about the Buick's future and its strong plans. I wonder how will Alpha if at all is a go will play into these products for Buick, Chevy and Caddy.

[NOS2006]

Chevrolet NOMAD on the Kappa platform...RWD Mini Cooper/ VW Beetle fighter. Market it as a commuter car for those of us that want a stylish car that will go from point a to point b and still be able to stop for groceries or Home Depot on the way home. Seats four, is a 4 cylinder RWD car that has sporting pretentions.

Anyone else think it would sell?

Nomad on Alpha. I highly doubt a Kappa II platform will exist.

I repeat, Nomad on Alpha.

[Robert Hall]

Since there is no mention of Daewoo, Holden, Vauxhall or Opel, Why is everyone assuming that SAAB is going to be axed?

There is talks with the Swedish government to get additional funding for Saab. Just get rid of Pontiac now. It makes no sense to continue that brand.

Losing Saturn is fine. It can always come back as Opel in the future. Hopefully they can convert some of the Saturn dealerships to other brands since Saturn generally has nice modern facilites compared to the old run down Pontiac and Buick dealerships.

Maybe SAAB NA will be axed. I assume by 4 brands they meant GMNA. I assume SAAB will remain in Europe under GME's management.

Edited January 12, 2009 by moltar

[hyperv6]

C7 begins production in 2014.

And the G8 ST goes on sale in the fall of 09.........OPPS!

I hope you were not waiting on that one too.

Like I said till it is in the showroom I would not put to many bets on platforms, models and dates. If you do you will be disapointed.

We might be lucky if they even start on the C7 by then.

GM has so many other things to spend money on first.

[hyperv6]

Maybe SAAB NA will be axed. I assume by 4 brands they meant GMNA. I assume SAAB will remain in Europe under GME's management.

I heard talk of a sales of part of Saab to the Sweedish Goverment.

If they sold 50-51% to them and supplied the cars they could help absorb a lot of the cost. They also are a solcialist goverment so funding a Auto company would not be out of line.

[Drew Dowdell]

Yep. Note the correction: Pontiac will be a six car line up: G8, G6, G5, Vibe, Solstice, and Solstice Hardtop.

Here's the link: Automotive News Article

Clarke: GM able to shrink to 4 core U.S. brands

Lutz: Pontiac to shrink to six-vehicle line

Jamie LaReau

Automotive News

January 12, 2009 - 12:01 am ET

UPDATED: 1/12/09 9:10 a.m. EST

DETROIT -- General Motors, seeking buyers for Saab and Hummer, will be able to follow through with plans to shrink to four core brands, North American President Troy Clarke says.

As part of the survival strategy submitted to Congress last month, GM said it intends to focus U.S. product and marketing resources on Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC. On Sunday at the Detroit auto show, Clarke said the company will be able to execute the plan, even as the global credit crisis chills merger and acquisition activity.

"We have to re-engineer the way we're doing business in many regards," Clarke said. "We're going to be a smaller company."

The automaker began a "strategic review" of the Hummer SUV line in June. Last week, GM sources told Automotive News that Sweden-based Saab has failed to attract suitors.

Meanwhile, Pontiac will dwindle to a six-vehicle line, Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said here in a separate interview on Sunday. The cars: the G6, G8, G5, Vibe, Solstice and Solstice hardtop coupe.

So... they lose 1 vehicle from today, but it really just crosses the showroom over to GMC and Pontiac doesn't get a new model that was already planned (and sold at Chevy) but neither belong at Pontiac anyway? Am I missing something here?

[Robert Hall]

So... they lose 1 vehicle from today, but it really just crosses the showroom over to GMC and Pontiac doesn't get a new model that was already planned (and sold at Chevy) but neither belong at Pontiac anyway? Am I missing something here?

Ok, so the Torrent is replaced by the GMC Terrain..that's old news. So then the G3 is a no-go for the US? Is it going to get cancelled before it comes out like the G8 ST was?

Not really much of a 'shrinkage' for Pontiac.

[Drew Dowdell]

Ok, so the Torrent is replaced by the GMC Terrain..that's old news. So then the G3 is a no-go for the US? Is it going to get cancelled before it comes out like the G8 ST was?

Not really much of a 'shrinkage' for Pontiac.

Might even still be produced but for Canadian market only.

[buyacargetacheck]

sounds like a total phaseout of Pontiac by 2012-13. no replacements for each of the current models once their lifecycles end. but GM can't say that now because they don't want to kill what's left of the demand -- all because of production, dealer, and (in the case of the Vibe) OEM commitments.

[Robert Hall]

sounds like a total phaseout of Pontiac by 2012-13. no replacements for each of the current models once their lifecycles end. but GM can't say that now because they don't want to kill what's left of the demand -- all because of production, dealer, and (in the case of the Vibe) OEM commitments.

Sounds plausable. As the PCS said, (paraphrased) 'get them while they are hot'... where is PCS, anyway? Haven't seen him around in a while..

[gm4life]

If GM is done with Pontiac. I might be done with GM. Sounds like they will leave Pontiac for a while and that is good news, if things go well we could see some new update/new verisons of models. The G6 is a bread and butter product so they would be stupid to get rid of it, so I was suprised when it said that the G6 wouldn't live. Plus the mid-cycle update should help some. Saturn, Saab and Hummer can go seriously no one will miss them and GM won't loose much if any market share. Pontiac has more volume and potential than any of those brands anyways.

Edited January 12, 2009 by gm4life

[ZL-1]

Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC

Pontiac - Vibe, Solstice, G8, G5

GMC has higher transaction prices than Chevy trucks while essentially being the same vehicles. Higher margins = good.

What I read from this is that Pontiac is dead. IMHO keeping the G5 makes perfect sense: it's a small car and the consensus is that the shift to smaller cars in the US market is a structural change even if gas prices remain low. Consumers can now afford to feed their Suburbans/Escalades but apparently they can't afford to buy them in droves anymore because they have to clean up their credit and job problems.

Regarding the premium/luxury brands, what I think is that in the US Cadillac will get attention (i.e. marketing $$$) while SAAB will remain in its a very limited niche. Outside the US the situation will be reversed: SAAB will get attention (i.e. marketing $$$) while Cadillac will remain a small niche player. Remember Cadillac sold 5K cars in Europe last year, which is a ridiculously low penetration.

[gm4life]

GMC has higher transaction prices than Chevy trucks while essentially being the same vehicles. Higher margins = good.

What I read from this is that Pontiac is dead. IMHO keeping the G5 makes perfect sense: it's a small car and the consensus is that the shift to smaller cars in the US market is a structural change even if gas prices remain low. Consumers can now afford to feed their Suburbans/Escalades but apparently they can't afford to buy them in droves anymore because they have to clean up their credit and job problems.

Regarding the premium/luxury brands, what I think is that in the US Cadillac will get attention (i.e. marketing $$$) while SAAB will remain in its a very limited niche. Outside the US the situation will be reversed: SAAB will get attention (i.e. marketing $$$) while Cadillac will remain a small niche player. Remember Cadillac sold 5K cars in Europe last year, which is a ridiculously low penetration.

I hope your wrong I read that Pontiac won't have models like a Torrent and a G3 etc. So why bother introducing the G3 just give us back the G8 ST instead. Like I said if your right I might be done with GM if there is no Pontiac. I am a life long GM driver and if I go imagine all the other people that will go... I have been loyal to GM and have always selected there products because I like them, but if they let Pontiac have it, they could very well not see me buying new again from them.

Edited January 12, 2009 by gm4life

[Intrepidation]

Sounds like they are keeping Pontiac to slowly phase it out by not updating and discontinuing models.

[gm4life]

Sounds like they are keeping Pontiac to slowly phase it out by not updating and discontinuing models.

I hope not. A revolt could happen and trust me they already got my letter along with many more. As they should for being stupid bastards.

Edited January 12, 2009 by gm4life

[DaveN308]

Sounds like they are keeping Pontiac to slowly phase it out by not updating and discontinuing models.

Or it could be a way to starve off those few Pontiac dealers that are not already paired with Buick and GMC.

Edited January 12, 2009 by DaveN308

[gm4life]

I hope not. But some have are paired with Cadillac and Chevrolet.

[FAPTurbo]

I hope not. A revolt could happen and trust me they already got my letter along with many more. As they should for being stupid bastards.

I have a feeling that'll be one small revolt.

[ocnblu]

Maybe US Pontiacs will simply unify with Canada and be Chevrolet rebadges. It stinks.

[Northstar]

Really GM is reducing to 3 brands... GMC is not at all unique. I don't see why GM can't keep two models for Pontiac aimed squarely at the youth market. As reg pointed out, GM really has no brand that is youth oreinted besides Pontiac now that Saturn is dead...

[gm4life]

I have a feeling that'll be one small revolt.

Trust me if they go you will hear it. Just like when Ford thought about getting rid of the Mustang.

[ToniCipriani]

Overly optimistic and too much sense for GM to understand:

It's a good thing IF the new G5 to be released is based on Alpha RWD, and about a tad bit larger than a 3-series for comfort, yet still handles like one. Give it a nice interior, jack up the price a bit from the G5.

Then it all makes sense:

Vibe AWD -- the econobox and (hopefully) volume seller, competes with the sportier hatches

G5 -- the premium compact

G8 -- the flagship

Solstice -- the halo

But again, this is too much common sense for GM beancounters. One "thank goodness" though is that the G3 Wave is dead.

I'm waiting for the "ALPHA IS FOR CHEVY AND CADILLAC ONLY" post.

[2QuickZ's]

Even though I own two Saturns and am going to take a huge hit on both of them when it comes time to sell, this is probably the right thing to do. Anybody want to buy a used Aura? Now I need to decide if I should dump it immediately before their value plummets even further than they have already or just hold onto it. All the new cars I want aren't coming out until 2010. About the only 2009 model year car I would want would be the Cobalt SS sedan or maybe a 1LT or 2 LT Malibu.

[smk4565]

This is a good plan and should have been started 2 years ago. Saab, Hummer and Saturn should go fast. I suspect Pontiac will close down around 2012, and GMC will stay because a stand alone Buick dealership would never survive. GMC could also be the fleet and medium duty truck sales outlet.

[BigPontiac]

Yeah, death to Saturn! They never fulfilled their mission, so time to shut it down.

Keeping GMC makes sense since they make money -- GMC also sells well on the East and West coast. Also, when the GMT900s were launched, GM stated the GMC demographic had a higher household income than Cadillac buyers, yet didn't feel the need to flaunt it like an Escalade buyer for example.

If GMC gets killed, the ugly@ss Silverado would certainly not be at the top of my list for a replacement for my Sierra...a sentiment shared by several of my GMC driving friends.

[smk4565]

Keeping GMC makes sense since they make money

Nothing at GM is making money right now. And it still costs something to rebadge a Chevy, run advertising for it, pay GMC management, brand V.P.'s etc. It could be profitable in the future, but I am not convinced that having Chevy trucks alone wouldn't yield and equal or better profit margin for GM as a whole.

[gm4life]

I think GMC should stay so long as there is a market for them. If Pontiac stays even with 4 or 5 models GMC and Buick should stay too.

[daves87rs]

Don't believe what you read-there are a lot of "smoke and mirrors" right now.

GM will tell you whatever to sell a car right now.

It's not going to be pretty....you're just not going to see it yet.

I don't even see the G8 lasting into the 2010 model at this rate.......