Detroit News: "GM will announce 'important changes'"

[wildcat]

The Detroit News revealed today that "GM will announce 'important changes' on Friday. To view the article, click here.

Edited November 5, 2008 by wildcat

[ZL-1]

[The O.C.]

The Detroit News revealed today that "GM will announce 'important changes' on Friday. To view the article, click here.

You think we'll hear anything about GM/Chrysler?

Considering that GM said they wanted to have such a deal, if possible, drawn up by the end of October.....

[smk4565]

It better be real change, and not the "rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic" crap they have been doing with the "new" G3 and Traverse or financing that fits and red tag sales. Rebadging and discounts is how they got into the mess, and they are still doing it.

This is staggering:

"GM's sales in the United States are down 20.3 percent this year and the automaker has lost approximately $70 billion since 2004."

Toyota has made $59 billion in profit since then, that is a $130 billion difference! GM at this point probably has to declare bankruptcy, get rid of the union, get new management, and start over from scratch with 3-4 brands.

[ZL-1]

The issue with an OEM declaring bankruptcy is panic re warranties. People would think the company is tanking and would massively and suddenly go elsewhere.

I hope these major changes are related to NA operations and a plan to conserve cash. idk what such a plan would translate to in practical terms, but I'm curious to know what the news are...

Edited November 5, 2008 by ZL-1

[Robert Hall]

Hmmm...I can only imagine it will be a Not Good announcement..more layoffs and plant closures? Models to be dropped?

[CMG]

I bet both Hummer and Saturn will be gone. GM has to start trimming fat, and it's got to get going fast. SOMETHING has to go.

[CMG]

What about GMC trucks?

[gm4life]

Who knows. I just hope it isn't super bad news.

[wildcat]

Might they announce that GME will now oversee all future product design or perhaps the day-to-day operation of GMNA? I ask this particularly in light of a comment that was made today in the Buick forum here, after one poster derogatorily complained that car designers in Europe needed to improve their "vanilla" designs and someone responded that, after Friday, "you better get use to vanilla."

Edited November 6, 2008 by wildcat

[Cremazie]

I would be willing to see Everything else go to save Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick.

[Robert Hall]

Could it be something as drastic as announcing GMNA cut to 4 brands by the end of the year? That would be a dramatic change.

[Satty]

They're changing the company name to Batman, Inc.

[longtooth]

Might they announce that GME will now oversee all future product design or perhaps the day-to-day operation of GMNA? I ask this particularly in light of a comment that was made today in the Buick forum here, after one poster derogatorily complained that car designers in Europe needed to improve their "vanilla" designs and someone responded that, after Friday, "you better get use to vanilla."

Nice detective work.

[Croc]

Might they announce that GME will now oversee all future product design or perhaps the day-to-day operation of GMNA? I ask this particularly in light of a comment that was made today in the Buick forum here, after one poster derogatorily complained that car designers in Europe needed to improve their "vanilla" designs and someone responded that, after Friday, "you better get use to vanilla."

That was PCS. He likes to mindf@#k people here, so I wouldn't put blind faith into it until Friday comes along.

[daves87rs]

Hmmm...I can only imagine it will be a Not Good announcement..more layoffs and plant closures? Models to be dropped?

Ummm.....yep- not good.

That's all I can say....

[Chazman]

Hmmm...I can only imagine it will be a Not Good announcement..more layoffs and plant closures? Models to be dropped?

Me too. I can't imagine anything good being announced.

[Cremazie]

Me too. I can't imagine anything good being announced.

Anything shy of bankruptcy will be pretty good news!

[4gm]

If it's not good news it has to be more layoffs/ plant closings. A distant possibility is bankruptcy which I would actually welcome at this point. They could blame it on the economy and the Bush administration. Most people would go along with that.

[smk4565]

My guess is layoffs, closing almost all the factories for "winter vacation" in December, and more of the same old cost cutting they've done in the past. Typical GM of trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hope they address the real problem of too many models/too many brands, too big a dealer network, and union employees that are paid too much compared to Toyota/Honda workers.

[daves87rs]

My guess is layoffs, closing almost all the factories for "winter vacation" in December, and more of the same old cost cutting they've done in the past. Typical GM of trying to cure the symptoms and not the disease. I hope they address the real problem of too many models/too many brands, too big a dealer network, and union employees that are paid too much compared to Toyota/Honda workers.

Be careful what you wish for.....

[gmcbob]

I don't think it's going to be bankruptcy, that would be the kiss of death for their sales, and they know it big time. I think it's going to be killing some models or maybe even the consolidation of Saturn into the BPG "brand" or something, with the ultimate elimination of Pontiac. But bankruptcy, I highly doubt that.

[Oracle of Delphi]

That was PCS. He likes to mindf@#k people here, so I wouldn't put blind faith into it until Friday comes along.

Trust me it will be nothing but an earnings report, or lack thereof. Trust me! :AH-HA_wink:

[daves87rs]

Trust me it will be nothing but an earnings report, or lack thereof. Trust me! :AH-HA_wink:

Ummm...yeah......

[regfootball]

maybe GME (i.e profitable) is breaking apart from the rest of GM (i.e. unprofitable)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

maybe GME (i.e profitable) is breaking apart from the rest of GM (i.e. unprofitable)

Too bad GMNA didn't kill GME when it was draining the bank accounts.

[Chazman]

Too bad GMNA didn't kill GME when it was draining the bank accounts.

Yeah, GME was a HUGE cash drain for awhile.

[thegriffon]

Ah, who's saying it isn't now. Sales are crashing in western Europe too, and they were barely profitable before. Of course even Toyota is losing hundreds of millions in the US now.

[buyacargetacheck]

Besides an abysmal earnings report, here are my predictions:

Plant closings/shutterings and loss of 10,000 jobs: Shreveport, Wilmington, Janesville early, a GMT900 pickup plant, Hamtramck idled until Volt ready. No deal on Chrysler (yet). No buyer yet for Hummer.

Outside chance: Announcement that Isuzu is in negotiations to buy part or all of GM's medium truck biz.

Possible but not likely: closure of Orion with all Epsilon production centered at Fairfax. G6 will be cancelled, Pontiac dies a slow death. Announcement that Toyota is in negotiation to buy GM's share of NUMMI. SAIC will buy Buick. GMC to concentrate on commercial vehicles only. Saab up for sale.

[wildcat]

Another major Detroit newspaper, the Free Press, has made a small update regarding tomorrow's announcement. Click here.

So, according to them, we can take at least that one possibility of plant closures off the table.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Trust me it will be nothing but an earnings report, or lack thereof. Trust me! :AH-HA_wink:

See, just an earnings report or lack there of. I told y'all to trust me.

[evok]

See, just an earnings report or lack there of. I told y'all to trust me.

Even if GM implements the planned operating actions that are substantially within its control, GM's estimated liquidity during the remainder of 2008 will approach the minimum amount necessary to operate its business. BANKRUPTCY Looking into the first two quarters of 2009, even with its planned actions, the company's estimated liquidity will fall significantly short of that amount unless economic and automotive industry conditions significantly improve, it receives substantial proceeds from asset sales, takes more aggressive working capital initiatives, gains access to capital markets and other private sources of funding, receives government funding under one or more current or future programs, or some combination of the foregoing. BANKRUPTCY The success of GM's plans necessarily depends on other factors, including global economic conditions and the level of automotive sales, particularly in the United States and Western Europe. BANKRUPTCY

Personally - I am having a really hard time seeing what is so funny. The above is what GM stated today. The only words I added are in bold.

Edited November 7, 2008 by evok

[longtooth]

MM Cramer weighs in:

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/funds/stop...E&cm_ite=NA

[Oracle of Delphi]

Even if GM implements the planned operating actions that are substantially within its control, GM's estimated liquidity during the remainder of 2008 will approach the minimum amount necessary to operate its business. BANKRUPTCY Looking into the first two quarters of 2009, even with its planned actions, the company's estimated liquidity will fall significantly short of that amount unless economic and automotive industry conditions significantly improve, it receives substantial proceeds from asset sales, takes more aggressive working capital initiatives, gains access to capital markets and other private sources of funding, receives government funding under one or more current or future programs, or some combination of the foregoing. BANKRUPTCY The success of GM's plans necessarily depends on other factors, including global economic conditions and the level of automotive sales, particularly in the United States and Western Europe. BANKRUPTCY

Personally - I am having a really hard time seeing what is so funny. The above is what GM stated today. The only words I added are in bold.

GM will strong arm the US, Canadian, Mexican and even perhaps the EU governments to come to it's rescue. Wait and see.

[ZL-1]

GM won't be allowed by the US government to go into bankruptcy. I think the US government will at least guarantee loans (or even pump fresh money directly) until the end of the year... GM has what? 100K people working in NA? No GM CEO and US President will want to preside over the demise of GM. What I hope is that this time around the money will be well spent.

[Robert Hall]

GM won't be allowed by the US government to go into bankruptcy. I think the US government will at least guarantee loans (or even pump fresh money directly) until the end of the year... GM has what? 100K people working in NA? No GM CEO and US President will want to preside over the demise of GM. What I hope is that this time around the money will be well spent.

I hope this is the case...sadly, I know some people that have said they'd be happy to see GM go out of business or sell out to Toyota.

[longtooth]

I hope this is the case...sadly, I know some people that have said they'd be happy to see GM go out of business or sell out to Toyota.

Ah, but "The Onion" supplies the answer.

Struggling Americans Forced To Work Extra-Dimensional 4th Shift

November 3, 2008 | Issue 44•45

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/strug...icans_forced_to

[evok]

GM will strong arm the US, Canadian, Mexican and even perhaps the EU governments to come to it's rescue. Wait and see.

Wait and see! Such prophetic words since it has been in discussions for months. $25B has already been allocated and appropriated under the Energy Independence Act of Dec 2007.

If not in legal name - today's results at GM and Ford illustrate that both companies are bankrupt. Let me explain, GM has about a month worth of cash before operations are closed. October is already done and GM probably blew another $2b. GME after a decade of restructuring still cannot make a penny.

Such pride! Can't make it on your own and hoping for a bailout. GM and Ford will get it because subsidizing these companies will keep jobs when the country most needs it. Not because it is deserved.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Wait and see! Such prophetic words since it has been in discussions for months. $25B has already been allocated and appropriated under the Energy Independence Act of Dec 2007.

If not in legal name - today's results at GM and Ford illustrate that both companies are bankrupt. Let me explain, GM has about a month worth of cash before operations are closed. October is already done and GM probably blew another $2b. GME after a decade of restructuring still cannot make a penny.

Such pride! Can't make it on your own and hoping for a bailout. GM and Ford will get it because subsidizing these companies will keep jobs when the country most needs it. Not because it is deserved.

No, what has been discussed was the U.S. Government's bailout plan for the North American Big 2.5. Not until recently has the Canadian government's financial help been added to the fervor. What I said wait and see to, was adding the Mexican, EU and I have a feeling even the Australian government will be hit up for a loan with the fate of Holden and Ford Down under hanging in the balance. That has not been in discussions for months, but it will be, oh it will be.

[smk4565]

I don't see government help coming unless GM first sells off whatever they can, takes whatever loans they can, gets union concessions, and has a plan to change their business model. The gov't won't loan them $20 billion so they can burn through it and be in the same situation a year later.

They only have 100-120 days of cash left also, come February they could be done. Their best hope at this point is probably if Toyota buys them and spares 2-3 brands and maybe half the workforce. But I don't think Toyota wants them.

Edited November 8, 2008 by smk4565

[Lamar]

I don't see government help coming unless GM first sells off whatever they can, takes whatever loans they can, gets union concessions, and has a plan to change their business model. The gov't won't loan them $20 billion so they can burn through it and be in the same situation a year later.

They only have 100-120 days of cash left also, come February they could be done. Their best hope at this point is probably if Toyota buys them and spares 2-3 brands and maybe half the workforce. But I don't think Toyota wants them.

I don't think they want Toyota to want them.

Plus, except for the money problems, Toyota is fast on its way to becoming GM.

[Robert Hall]

I don't think they want Toyota to want them.

Plus, except for the money problems, Toyota is fast on its way to becoming GM.

I was thinking Toyota, Honda, and Nissan could set up a charity thing...put money cans in their showrooms to collect donations for GM.

[Chevy Nick]

Slightly off-topic (but not really deserving it's own thread): My mortgage was purchased by GMAC from my bank about 2 years ago. Every month, GMAC makes about $450 from me in interest payments. GMAC probably has millions of loans like mine, how can they screw that up?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Here is the real problem with all this news, the general public sees all of this too and by now has determined that GM is going bankrupt and will steer clear of GM and all domestics, so now we are in a self fulfilling prophecy.

[CARBIZ]

Slightly off-topic (but not really deserving it's own thread): My mortgage was purchased by GMAC from my bank about 2 years ago. Every month, GMAC makes about $450 from me in interest payments. GMAC probably has millions of loans like mine, how can they screw that up?

...PSSST - you are the only one still paying.

[daves87rs]

Here is the real problem with all this news, the general public sees all of this too and by now has determined that GM is going bankrupt and will steer clear of GM and all domestics, so now we are in a self fulfilling prophecy.

You got it!

People here are already talking about buying other models...they don't plan to deal with these issues..

People who did not want to see cars built here are going to get their wish...

Stuff like this makes me want to leave this stupid

country- because we are the only ones dumb enough to slash our our throat.......

I don't think people realize just how serious this is...

[evok]

No, what has been discussed was the U.S. Government's bailout plan for the North American Big 2.5. Not until recently has the Canadian government's financial help been added to the fervor. What I said wait and see to, was adding the Mexican, EU and I have a feeling even the Australian government will be hit up for a loan with the fate of Holden and Ford Down under hanging in the balance. That has not been in discussions for months, but it will be, oh it will be.

Please - Do not BS me. There is nothing significant in what you say.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Please - Do not BS me. There is nothing significant in what you say.

Trust me evok, I wouldn't waste my time. I see you're just as nasty as you always were. Oh, welcome back by the way! :AH-HA_wink:

Edited November 8, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[02ChevySS]

Please - Do not BS me. There is nothing significant in what you say.

Well, well, look at that - someone else calling your bull$h!. The difference here is that I'm just "some guy" with a dozen or so posts while evok actually has a well established history for knowing what is going on in the auto industry and a good chance he knows much more than you do about what is happening inside GM, despite your status as a self proclaimed "high up" employee *cough, cough..low level grunt, cough*

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well, well, look at that - someone else calling your bull$h!. The difference here is that I'm just "some guy" with a dozen or so posts while evok actually has a well established history for knowing what is going on in the auto industry and a good chance he knows much more than you do about what is happening inside GM, despite your status as a self proclaimed "high up" employee *cough, cough..low level grunt, cough*

Look, I could care less what you think or say, I have more important things to worry about at this point in my life, my father is very ill and may just die, so if you want to back bite and snipe, feel free, in the grand scheme of things, I really don't care what you think of me anyway.