buickman has a proven sales track record

[buickmanwannabe]

I just signed up and noticed all of you who rant and rage concerning buickman and his ideas re: GM ? He believes in GM and wants them to return to greatness, attends the shareholder meetings - has a plan for GM, starts generalwatch etc...

All I know about most of the others is that you sit and complain --- what have YOU done??

Maybe its easy to be a SIX time salesman of the year for Buick in the country and MAYBE NOT --- have you done anything that compares ?

All I've seen in my very short time here is complaining regarding him - its easy to sit and type isn't it?

I would like to be # 1 - you should listen and learn that atleast.

I look forward to your comments

thanks

gotta love that buickman

[Newbiewar]

I just signed up and noticed all of you who rant and rage concerning buickman and his ideas re: GM ?  He believes in GM and wants them to return to greatness,  attends the shareholder meetings - has a plan for GM, starts generalwatch etc...

All I know about most of the others is that you sit and complain --- what have YOU done??

Maybe its easy to be a SIX time salesman of the year for Buick in the country and MAYBE NOT --- have you done anything that compares ?

All I've seen in my very short time here is complaining regarding him - its easy to sit and type isn't it?

I would like to be # 1 - you should listen and learn that atleast.

I look forward to your comments

thanks   

gotta love that buickman

i started to sell chevys because i wanted to help...

but there is never going to be a silverbullet for a giant...

when a big fellow starts to lose his footing, he doesnt regain it nearly as quickly as an agile person...

likewise, when a company faulters, it will take some time to correct things...

Buick man has been preaching his beliefs for over 10 years, and no one at the helm of GM has given him the time of day...

even 10% owner of GM Kirk, looked over what he had to say, and i'm sure if he agreed it was worth while to implement, would coerce some of management...

i believe what he has to say, is valueable... but is that the only thing that is going to save GM... no... GM needs a whole lot of things before it starts to gain marketshare in the longterm...

while sales tactics and wise advertisement might boost short term sales, the long term sales are based on previous owners happiness and the public perception... some people never give GM the time of day, and Jim's Return to greatness will never win them over...

[Sixty8panther]

I too sold new Chevrolets, Pontiacs & GMCs in an effort to help

GM and help myself in the process while feeling proud of what

I do. One of GM's biggest problems is their dealer network. As

a former salesman I can tell you that 95% of the people

working at GM stores are scumbags who would rather sell used

Toyotas & Hondas to a spoon fed public than actually stand

behind their product and contradict CR or MT.

I've still got a few great friends that I made while working at

GM stores and those people are fantastic individuals, but there's

also a few I'd love to slap and tell them what Oxygen Thieves

they are. It's sad when people in the car industry are only

concerned about $$$ and nothing else.

[ellives]

1. The expression is "rant and rave" and not "rant and rage."

2. Salesmen love to tell you how great they are, after all they are salesmen and have to sell themselves to you before they can ever expect to sell their product. There are some good ones. No doubt Jim is a good salesman based on his track record but even he would concede in order to achieve great sales numbers, even a good salesman needs a good product to sell.

3. Being a good salesman does not qualify anyone to run a company OR be a turnaround expert. They are good at selling and not at understanding the nuances and intracacies of a large multi-national corporation. There's always an exception but Jim has yet to prove he's one of them. In my experience I've found most sales guys (not all) are weak in almost every area of business OTHER than sales and are usually only after whatever they can get for themselves.

4. No one is doubting Jim's honest desire to see GM survive however I'm not sure many people would agree with his strategy of attacking Rick Wagoner relentlessly in whatever forum he can. Even he must know changes of the size and scope are agreed on in conference rooms and handshakes.

5. Personally I don't know if Wagoner is the right guy for the job. In the end the board will have to decide. I wonder if he has the "vision" thing down and whether he is able to effectively communicate it. At least he'll have a lot less employees to deal with soon although yet more pensioners. Good luck to him.

I just signed up and noticed all of you who rant and rage concerning buickman and his ideas re: GM ?  He believes in GM and wants them to return to greatness,  attends the shareholder meetings - has a plan for GM, starts generalwatch etc...

All I know about most of the others is that you sit and complain --- what have YOU done??

Maybe its easy to be a SIX time salesman of the year for Buick in the country and MAYBE NOT --- have you done anything that compares ?

All I've seen in my very short time here is complaining regarding him - its easy to sit and type isn't it?

I would like to be # 1 - you should listen and learn that atleast.

I look forward to your comments

thanks   

gotta love that buickman

[NOS2006]

What have I done? I've bought a '98 Camaro and am about to buy a new Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe.

How much have I accomplished? Dude, I'm 18.

[regfootball]

with all respect to buickman, he is selling in michigan to a local and loyal clientele.i.e. hondas and toyotas and german cars don't have any inroads there to make it a realistic scenario like the rest of the country. let's see him sell buicks to college professors in the pacific northwest or to young professionals in California. Or to hispanic or oriental folks in Texas.

Edited June 28, 2006 by regfootball

[CARBIZ]

I'm with Sixtyeight: most salespeople I know have no real loyalty to GM - they could just as soon go and sell Toyotas. In fact, most of them don't know anything about cars, the auto industry or (sigh) even LIKE automobiles.

Twenty years ago, it probably didn't matter if you knew much about cars. If someone shopped Chevy, they may have shopped Plymouth or Ford, but that was there options.

Yesterday, a customer told me they were shopping the Outlander against the Equinox. Outlander? Does anyone even sell those? Our Fleet Manager thought it was a Subaru. (Actually, for a moment, he had me convinced, too.)

Frankly, it is impossible to keep up. The market in the Toronto area is hugely fragmented. We have every make within a 1 mile drive of us.

I doubt that Buickman could run General Motors. I know I couldn't. However, I sometimes wonder if anyone in Detroit (or Oshawa) gets out of their ivory tower and actually visits dealers and talk to the salespeople. Forget the sales managers: they don't know much either. And, as was pointed out above, forget about the dealers in the loyal areas, try the big markets where it is becoming a blood bath with Japan Inc.

It is the sales people who are in the trenches. We put up with the ranting when customers are pissed off about the way ads are written. We have to translate them. We have to counter the BS that Japan Inc.'s cronies at MT, CR, etc. print every day. We have to explain to a 70 year old woman who has ALWAYS bought Chevrolet that she should still buy Chevrolet, even though her 30-something year old spawn are telling her to buy Honda. We have to explain that the squealing on their new brakes may be normal. We have to remember all the rates and residuals changes that GM dumps on us weekly, plus the offers in the ads........

Don't get me wrong. I love my job, but GM is a huge company and sometimes I suspect the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

[Flybrian]

Moved to the Lounge because this doesn't fit in with GM news.

[zhawk]

With all due respect, the problem, as I see it, with Buickman is that he won't quit the relentless attacks and insulting of those in GM he disagrees with. "Red Ink" Rick is not exactly a respectful attitude to show towards someone who has a very complicated and difficult job.

Its kind of like a worn out record (for those of us who remember those), even if you love the songs it gets a bit hard to listen to all of the scratching.

As for what I have personally done for GM? I am not a salesman, nor do I work in the auto industry, I am an aircraft mechanic for the US Air Force. I have gotten a bunch of friends to consider GM products by bringing up their good points and telling people to go out and look for themselves, not to believe everything written in an automotive magazine. Right now, an airman is checking out Pontiacs. I also have been helping lead a Camaro Club and keeping the interest in Chevys high with shows and events. Last year our All Chevy Show created a lot of interest in some of the new cars because we had dealers bring in a couple. And that's just the beginning.

Many others on this board could bring up many similar points. Most of us here want GM and all of its brands to be massively successful. We look and discuss many different ideas with the concept of building up the company. Some ideas come across well, others don't.

I would be about the last person to say I have the solution for GMs difficulties. The problems have been there longer than most anyone at the corporation and will take a long time to fix. Buickman's ideas seem to be better aimed at the dealers than GM itself. GM needs to concentrate on putting out great products.

[capriceman]

with all respect to buickman, he is selling in michigan to a local and loyal clientele.i.e. hondas and toyotas and german cars don't have any inroads there to make it a realistic scenario like the rest of the country.  let's see him sell buicks to college professors in the pacific northwest or to young professionals in California.  Or to hispanic or oriental folks in Texas.

You would think Michigan would drive the Big three but Theres alot of german and asian cars rolling around here. No one Cares about there own state here its really sad. If you go to Ann Arbor and You drive a GM you will probably get killed and your car burned. Its funny how They dont Care to See Ford, GM, Or DCX out sorce to other states or country's to get cheaper work, There actully For it.

[capriceman]

Also as for Buickman i never had a problem with him, He is just expressing his idea that i really dont care for. So I just dont comment on them.

Also I have owned GM all my life Except for my 69' Mach 1. So I can say i helped but they have helped me more.

[Cadillacfan]

Oh... great. He has a new screenname. Looks like I'll be blocking this one too.

[Enzora]

Again, for Buickman, I evoke the Peter Principle.

A rule of organizations that states, “In a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence.” Formulated by Laurence J. Peter, this rule is supposed to explain occupational incompetence.

Buickman's skills are excellent for selling Buicks, but for him to try to use those skills to save all of GM would be for him to make a huge leap into a level which he clearly knows nothing about. Luckily, GM isn't allowing that to happen this time.

[FAPTurbo]

Oh... great.  He has a new screenname.  Looks like I'll be blocking this one too.

Even though I doubt it IS Buickman doing this, if it turns out he is, he's certainly done his homework. This certainly looks like a teenage girls's MySpace post. But although I've only read his posts, I think Mr. D. has enough self respect to not do this.

Sorry buickmanwannabe, but you really ought to get a name change and maybe a cogent argument. Even if you change to something like Hendrix_Fan_462 or Cat-pain Yah-Boo, you'll likely gain a bit more cred.

What's next? A collection of members banding together creating a fan club called the OcnBlu Cru(e)?

As for what I've done, probably less than you maybe, but I drive GM and I always make sure I tell people who are looking at cars to take a second look at the General and give them the facts on GM vehicles. I might even look at selling cars for a GM dealership.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I think I know who buickmanwannabe might be...

[Satty]

Its not me, if thats what you're thinking. I have an idea.....

[Cory Wolfe]

I'm sorry... I still think C&G is better off without Buickman.

[ToniCipriani]

I've been getting people to drive GM - in and out of North America.

I stopped my sister from buying a Lexus. Although now she's considering a B-Class...

[Guest buickman]

Some modicum of support is appreciated from where ever the source. Meanwhile, GM continues unabated in their steep decline and steady progression to a chapter (?) filing. Perhaps "Red Ink Rick" has a few banker friends interested in protecting him so they can eventually buy the carcass for cents on the dollars. Heard of Wilbur Ross? He spent years learning the art of the deal for the Rothschilds. Never underestimate the power and desires of international bankers. Call me crazy, but first look at the steel industry, among others. Billy and Al would be sick if they could see what is unnecessarily happening to their baby.

Buickman

Edited June 28, 2006 by buickman

[buickmanwannabe]

well. alot of different views re: buickman - no one asked what I have done - hmmm wonder why not - easier to bash buickman huh?

I have been in the car business for 26 yrs - worked in the doll up shop, moved to the parts dept. when computers enter the dept. - did a complete inventory and returned old parts for credit - also worked as a service advisor - and @ 20 starting selling GM vehicles for 1.5 yrs before running a used car lot ( mostly GM ) for eight or so yrs - the first Iraq started so I closed the used lot and became a used car manager @ a 6 GM franchise store for 3 yrs until I moved to a PBG store as general mngr. opened a empty point store - the last 10 yrs I have been a salesperson at yet another location with Chevr,PBG store. Finally in 2004 and 2005 became salesperson of the yr beating salespeople that of been there 28 yrs and a office full of awards.

My point of the post is I can always use help looking for new ideas for prospecting my customers and new ones - last week I hired my 19 yr old son to work for me (not the dealership) to help me w/ prospecting and paperwork, internet leads etc...

I was searching the net for ideas and noticed the # 1 buickman 6 times in the country - so what better way can I help myself, son and GM then to learn from the best?

I really don't care about wagner or anybody else @ the top of GM - I believe they are like politians - alot of crap and no results.

thanks for your comments

gotta love the buickman

[The O.C.]

Buickmanwannabe,

I worked for Buick Motor Divison, and hence, GM, for 11 years, 7 of those in the Flint office. I know the Buick business in Flint quite well as a result.

I've also spent time on the line selling cars for a Suzuki dealership in Riverside, CA. (no easy feat I tell you...) and as a Sales Manager at a BMW dealership in Irvine, CA. (one of the largest BMW stores in the country.)

When Buickman's "20 Points for a Return to Greatness" were first revealed on here, I posted my candid comments on EACH point.......in fact, I've posted them on here more than a couple of times.

To DATE (6-29-06) Buickman has NEVER responded to my invitation to provide HIS rebuttal to MY comments regarding his "20 Points."

Here they are again! My comments in BOLD. (My further apologies to my friends on C&G that have to scroll thru these again....)

This whole plan seems to be a Michigan-centric proposal that does next to nothing to really address the major challenges that GM faces….those challenges being over-capacity, excessive costs, lackluster product, and in many cases, a severly-ineffective dealer body. Not much of this plan seems relevant in the “real world” outside of Michigan or the Midwest, nor does it address the challenge of selling, marketing, and promoting GM vehicles to conquest buyers. GM’s problems are far larger than depicted in these twenty points.

A RETURN TO GREATNESS

Step One: When "The Return" is initially announced, we proclaim the

elimination of Destination Charges.

· First of all, GM needs revenue……and the destination charges are something that’s acceptable industry-wide. There is no reason to get rid of these charges as long as they are in line with other manufacturer’s charges. To do so will reduce one source of revenue for General Motors.

Step Two: Ten days after the original announcement we release the next step,

the elimination of mid-year price increases.

· Customers neither care or probably realize that mid-year price increases actually take place. GM needs to build value in their products and if you build products that people actually want to buy, then occasional mid-year price adjustments won’t be a factor in GM’s success.

Step Three: Announcement of simplified quarterly incentive changes. No more

pressure to buy now, hurry before it ends, only to be followed by another

program.

· Simplified incentives are fine. However, you will ALWAYS have the situation where someone buys a car and the next day the incentive changes. This will happen whether the incentive is monthly OR quarterly. The very NATURE of the retail automotive industry, in fact ANY sales-oriented industry, is that there will be pressure to “buy now” as companies attempt to meet or exceed monthly, quarterly, or yearly objectives. Furthermore, customers will ALWAYS worry what the “deal” will be. It is in our very nature to negotiate. We do that on houses, and we do that on cars. This is NOT a GM-only fact of life. Furthermore, even if GM WERE to take this step and reduce the “urgency” of the sale, other auto competitors will NOT….and therefore, their existing sense of “urgency” will give them more powerful momentum.

Step Four: Destination Detroit is move number four. In this announcement we

explain our decision to bring all future award winning dealers and

salespeople to Detroit as their reward for a job well done.

· If you are trying to motivate dealers and salespeople, I’m sorry….but a trip to Detroit is NOT going to do it. Hometown pride is great and admirable but it’s a fact of life that Detroit is NOT a leisure or entertainment destination and trying to convince dealers and salespeople to work harder with “Detroit” as a reward will be fruitless at best. I like the idea about a trip to the proving grounds, but in this case, a trip to the Phoenix Proving Grounds would be much more enticing with all the attractions, spas, resorts, and golfing of the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. The expenses saved from executives NOT traveling for this meeting would be minimal and would not strongly impact GM’s bottom line.

Step Five: Home Deliveries. We announce an effort of working with our

dealers to bring the customer the vehicle of their choice, directly to their

place of employment, or residence.

· With every “docs-out” or “home” delivery you do, you take profit opportunities AWAY from the dealership, primarily in the finance department. Maybe home deliveries would be more popular in Michigan, where so many retail customers ARE GM employees….and for them, buying a car is not as big of a deal. In fact, when most GM employees buy multiple cars in a year, and work in the industry, they don’t “need” to take delivery at the dealership. This is most assuredly not the case in the rest of the country. Additionally, customers STILL need to come TO the dealership to shop and negotiate. And in many areas of the country, “spot” deliveries (where the customer takes the car home THAT day) are commonplace. Having a customer wait for a home delivery only reduces profit potential at the dealership AND gives the customer additional time to “rethink” their decision and back out of the deal. It happens.

Step Six: We announce a very simple and easy to understand incentive...Got

GM Get GM. It is a loyalty incentive that anyone can comprehend. If you

currently own or lease a GM vehicle, you receive $1,000. It is stackable and

compatible with any offering, transferable to family member at same address.

No goofy rebate if you own a non-GM car.

· A GM loyalty incentive is a good idea. However, you cannot stop offering incentives to owners of competing makes. GM cannot survive on its current owners, employees, and retirees for the purchase of GM cars. GM needs to gain market-share from owners of competing makes and one way to do that is to give them a reason to come into a GM dealership. Unfortunately, at this time, the GM product is NOT enough of a reason to entice these consumers. It may be someday, but not now. Incentives are here to stay and as long as GM remains REASONABLE with their incentives and rebates, that’s not a bad thing.

Step Seven: Annual Model Change. Let's return to the regular release

of new products after Labor Day, and return a sense of order to the

business.

· Once again, if GM does this, they will be at a severe competitive disadvantage. One of the reasons that vehicle introductions became staggered throughout the year, was to gain the “upper hand” against a competitor that was also bringing out a new and competing model. Back 50 years ago, when competition was much less, the Big Three were a mainstay of the U.S. retail auto industry, and all manufacturers introduced new cars in the fall timeframe, this was a great idea. The very nature of the industry now and the number of competitors makes this an unrealistic practice. GM may decide to wait until the fall to introduce their new models, but their competitors surely will not. The competition will be more successful in pulling consumers into their showrooms to sell them their newest products instead of consumers “waiting” until fall to see what GM has to offer.

Step Eight: Increase Dealer Margin. We will let our retail partners know

they have something to gain in our quest to regain share. For each full

point of share we regain, we give the dealers another point of margin.

· Realistically, any increase in margin will be followed by an increase in price. NOW, if GM products get to a strong enough point of acceptance in the marketplace, this increase in price should not be a big issue. They are NOT at this point of acceptance yet. Asking GM to increase margins without a corresponding increase in price is asking GM to give up revenue they desperately need right now.

Step Nine: Get On The Street. Each month, each salary member of VSSM would

be required to spend one day in a randomly selected dealership service

department, preferably in write up.

· All GM employees, (and employees at any manufacturer for that matter) should spend time working in a dealership to get a true feel for the retail environment. However, I don’t see this as being a big impact to the dealership’s productivity. It’s a good idea, but not a big enough impact to probably be included as one of the points in GM’s “Return To Greatness.”

Step Ten: AARP. This is a fantastic demographic, and another opportunity to

simplify incentives. Make it a year-round program. If you belong to AARP,

you get $500 off any GM product, buy or lease.

· AARP is a good program, and a good targeted marketing incentive. However, like above, the impact is likely to be way too small to add to GM’s “Return To Greatness.” AARP, in the overall scheme of things, is a highly-targeted demographic and a correspondingly small proportion of the car-buying public. This incentive would primarily be aimed at GM retirees or Buick consumers. This incentive would do next-to-nothing towards helping convince shoppers at BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Toyota, or Lexus stores to come into a GM dealership.

Step Eleven: Brand Merchandise Offerings: Include with each delivery a

coupon for $50 off, or towards, merchandise from an affinity catalog.

· Good idea. You could target the brand merchandise offerings to match the individual GM divisional brand image. HOWEVER, once again, the impact from this promotion would do little to correct GM’s market share slide. GM’s problem today is WAY bigger than this.

Step Twelve: Auto Shows. Instead of the current practice of giving rebates

to certain residents of surrounding counties, let's offer auto show tickets

to those who test drive our products.

· Auto shows cost, $9, $10, $11 to get in. I don’t see this as making any impact. Auto show tickets alone aren’t going to bring new consumers into a GM dealership.

Step Thirteen: At year end, instead of giving our employees a cash award for

profit sharing, reward them with stock, and make them true partners in the

company's success.

· A nice idea, however, this does nothing to help fix the “core” problem at GM….and that’s the competitiveness of their products and the perception of GM products in the marketplace by those consumers that GM NEEDS to attract from the Japanese and European car shoppers.

Step Fourteen: PEP Cars. Quite often, GM executives turn in their factory

demos with the mileage just under the next price discount level. This

practice is both frustrating and annoying. The inconsideration shown to

fellow employees, and retirees, is inexcusable and unacceptable.

· No impact from this point. GM PEP cars are a phenomenon that only merits any importance from people living in Michigan (or surrounding states where people work at GM factories, etc.) where the majority of GM company cars are in service. Furthermore, these PEP cars are usually sold to GM employees and retirees. Complaining about losing out on an additional GM discount, when you are already getting a substantial discount on a PEP car is a needless and petty point to argue when it has nothing to do with GM gaining market-share in places like Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta, and New York.

Step Fifteen: Referral Savings Account. Similar to the GM Card (another

crisis), GM announces a program to accumulate a savings of $50 for each

referral who buys or leases a new vehicle.

· At $50 per referral, a consumer would never accumulate enough dollars to make the incentive strong enough to pull him/her into a GM dealership. Once again, maybe GM employees in Michigan might utilize such a program but in the REST of the country, how many people do you really think would refer a significant number of people to buy a GM car, then to actually redeem those dollars at a GM dealership? GM has to get people to CONSIDER their products for purchase FIRST before you can think about those consumers actually referring someone to buy a GM vehicle.

Step Sixteen: Free GM Smart Care Maintenance Agreement to all GM Retirees.

This 36 month 36,000 mile program would offer free recommended maintenance

to all GM retirees.

· Simply MORE “legacy costs” at a time when GM most assuredly does NOT need them. GM retirees are NOT going to save GM so there is little point in spending money in this way to further incentivize them. They are most likely going to continue to buy GM vehicles ANYWAY due to the discounts they receive. GM needs to spend money to improve product and increase market share….NOT foster goodwill with retirees.

Step Seventeen: GM Card. This was one of the best programs GM has ever had.

That was until someone decided to take earnings away, and thereby alienate

thousands of employee cardholders.

· I cannot comment as I am unfamiliar with the GM Card and recent activity that has supposedly made it a less-than-desirable incentive.

Step Eighteen: Sales Guilds. For years GM had brand specific sales guilds.

Now, everything is combined into the GM Mark of Excellence. It's a decent

enough program, but it would be more effective to return to the old days of

Buick Salesmaster and the Chevrolet Legion of Leaders.

· Unlikely to strongly impact GM’s falling market-share. The salespeople need good, competitive product to sell. That’s the first step.

Step Nineteen: Direct Factory Communication: Imagine going to your local

dealer and ordering a new vehicle. >From that point on, you might receive a

call from your salesman with an update as to the order status. Usually

though, no contact is made until the vehicle arrives. Utilizing the

internet, GM could send information directly to the customer, informing them

of their order's progress at the various stages, including when the vehicle

is scheduled for production, when it is actually built (including the new

VIN), and the estimated shipping, and arrival, dates.

· What percentage of GM vehicle purchases are actually custom-ordered? Not many. Due to this fact, this point has very little impact on GM’s overall challenges.

Step Twenty: Reinstatement of Regional Sales Training Classes. Years ago, GM

offered professional sales development classes at their regional training

centers.

· This point adds serious cost, which GM cannot afford right now. Sales training is ALWAYS beneficial, but most manufacturers these days utilize various computer and internet tools to train salespeople. Additionally, the dealership sales managers should be empowered to make sure their respective sales forces are properly trained. That is one function that the individual GM district sales manager should be responsible for on a local level. Regional sales training centers are an unnecessary expense. If a salesperson is not disciplined enough to utilize the computer, internet, and print materials available to him/her, than they shouldn’t be in the business in the first place.

Once AGAIN......, I welcome Buickman's candid rebuttal to ALL my comments on the above post. Let's see if he actually responds THIS time.......

[CARBIZ]

Well, I am really going to throw fuel on the fire of this one.

Specifically, Ford used to offer an incentive card in Canada through CIBC - they axed it completely about 4 or 5 years ago. GM may have annoyed a few customers when they modified the program 3 years ago, but at least they kept it in place.

As I read through the steps above, I do see where most of it does appear to be Michigan-centric. Although I sell nowhere near the # of vehicles BM does (in fact most GM dealers in Canada don't sell as many cars in a year as BM! LOL), I have observed that perhaps what is needed is for the Big 2.5 to get back control of their dealers.

From what I can see, most of the dealers are being run by second generaton burn-outs who are spoiled, silver spoon fed brats that know nothing about the car business.

Having said that, as the business has become so complex, I believe the consumer and the manufacturers would be better served if dealers were set up as boutiques, and salestaff were salaried advisors.

The high pressure/get-the-next-deal nature of many dealerships is not conducive to fostering long term relationships with the clients.

At least in this area, GM has been trying to assist in training the sales staff, including setting up expensive events with the competition's vehicles for us to touch and inspect.

This is one area where GM should have the upper hand; after all, GM has 80 odd years experience in selling to North AMericans; Japan Inc does not. However, as I sit and (try) to watch King of Cars, I cringe when I realize there are some dealerships that are like that.

[91z4me]

My problem with Buickman is his in ability to understand the business from another prospective. He, and now it seems his new fan, have experience in the dealership side of the business. He doesn't have any understanding of the corprate, design, or engineering side of the business. Also most of his points in the plan could likely be done by the individual dealers or regional dealer bodies rather than GM corprate. Also in many instances franchise laws would prohibit GM from enacting his ideas on a corprate level.

In an effort to capture his most recent posts a little example: The fish inside the fish bowl sees it has a world but those outside of it see it for what it is: a small fish bowl.

[Petra]

My thoughts with regards to Buickman's plan can be summed up with the following word:

Specious

adj.

1. Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious: a specious argument.

2. Deceptively attractive.

[The O.C.]

Buickman? Oh Buickman? Where arthou Buickman?

I threw the gauntlet down for you AGAIN in this thread a few posts above....and once AGAIN invited your debate....

And once again, you have avoided any rebuttal that you KNOW you can't win....

[Satty]

But O.C. those are only the first 20 steps. BM--> <--O.C.

Edited July 1, 2006 by Satty

[The O.C.]

But O.C. those are only the first 20 steps.     BM--> <--O.C.

Oh, pardon-muah......

<OC to Satty...>

[ShadowDog]

All I know about most of the others is that you sit and complain --- what have YOU done??

I look forward to your comments

thanks   

gotta love that buickman

What have I done for GM? The most important thing one can do outside of their world of direct corporate influence, buy their vehicles. My family not included, though new GM product buyers themselves, I had a '95 Monte Carlo Z34, and now a '04 Chevrolet Optra5 for my wife. With little need for it right now, the truck I have planned can wait.

I don't sit and complain regarding the moves GM makes; however, I don't blindly approve every decision that's come across my eyes. That said, I don't blindly approve every step BM has proposed as the perfect gift to the success of GM.

My area is management in the combined operations for foods, pharmacy and petroleum sales. There is nothing overly spectacular through the operation but for what significant planning is required for day-to-day needs to maintain the most profitable levels. To put it plainly, you manage $1.00 perishables to attain the $5 million gross sales in foods alone. This means planning against (not with) every salesman who walks through my doors and having only one thing on their mind, "bookings". They all want me to sign for butt-loads of product, both immediately perishable, and with shelf-life, fighting against ever having to take 'no' for an answer. I know what's best for my operation, because I'm the one there every day doing what's best for my operation. My numbers are proof-positive. Still, their mantra is that their product is the best, and will sell like hot-cakes. In all my experience, this only works if the price is right, and the quality is such that it will guarantee a future sale, down the road, to the same customer. Very few times have I found myself with a stock issue due to purchasing questionable merchandise. This is not to say I don't take risks; however, I don't leave it up to the salesman to tell me what's best for my operation when they have no clue as to who my clientele is, and what goes on in the day-to-day status of the business.

This doesn't make me qualified to run GM, or even suggest measures for their success; but it does make me qualified to evaluate what a person has to say about why GM fails, and why they have all the answers (purely from a sales and marketing perspective at that).

Why is this important to know? Removing any sarcasm from the negative notions of what a 'salesman' is. BM is still better known as a salesman, but the kind that only offers what 'he thinks' you want to -or should- hear, pushing onward with ideas that do not show potential on a national (or international) scale (based on the feedback that tends to sit solidly in a realm of common-sense). His tactics and negative campaigning put him in a position more akin to politics than corporate development.

Keep in mind, I certainly don't take anthing away from his postitive results in sales and marketing, but those are merely elements to assist in successful business development and not the sole grand answer to positive gains throughout; however, his negative campaign-style antics and nature are the reason his posts no longer receive any attention from me. I tend to guard myself against people in sales who tell me that my operation will only grow if their input is considered. More often than not, the ones who don't let a product speak for itself are trying too hard just to make a sale on an entirely questionable product altogether. BM's 'Return to Greatness' plan is overshadowed by his antagonistic and negative opinions. I don't think too many people can appreciate the product from a person who never has anything good to say.

That said, I wouldn't feel left out if he were a salesman for whom I would never buy anything from for my operation. His attempts at character assassination within his posts have done well, against himself.

Follow him if you wish. I don't care either way. My reply was because you asked the question nicely.

[Guest buickman]

OC's response is nitpicky and intended to criticize and demean. The first twenty steps are not going to completely correct GM's negative position. They are a series of steps which begin to set the tone for a turnaround. OC simply degrades each individually as incapable of making change. The point is how it begins the process and institutes the image of leadership in the market. No single manuever is going to give instant results. It's the entire process that will make the difference. Once the tone is set, we continue into the next set of planned announcements. Take an honest look at his critique and you will detect the underlying tone of adversity towards a plan and the individual behind it. Therefore his so called analysis is unworthy of detailed response.

Buickman

[zhawk]

Nice copy of your response in another thread BM (that's sarcasm in case you missed it.)

If he is so far off then you shouldn't have any trouble showing the rest of us the light. Unless of course this is another attempt at evading a critical look at the flaws in your plan.

[Petra]

OC's response is nitpicky and intended to criticize and demean.

Oh, puh-leeeeeeeeze.

Don't put forward a theory or plan and expect it to pass through without citicism. Ever hear of the Scientific Method, for example? And don't dish out harsh criticism yourself and act all hurt and surprised when you get the same back.

Take an honest look at his critique and you will detect the underlying tone of adversity towards a plan and the individual behind it. Therefore his so called analysis is unworthy of detailed response.

And just where, exactly, do you expect to find an unbiased party to review your plan on a GM Message Board? I, for one, would say that O.C put together an extremely fair critique of your plan given that circumstance. Like I said before, whenever anybody puts forth a theory or plan, they should expect nothing less than total and complete scrutiny, and should be prepaired to defend themselves for said scrutiny. You don't go into a debate and tell your audience that they shouldn't listen to your opponent because he's a mean jerk who hates you (at least, not a real debate, which does not include mud-slinging political campaigns, etc.).

The point is how it begins the process and institutes the image of leadership in the market. No single manuever is going to give instant results.

That I will agree with. These things take time and effort. A frail man can't expect to go to the Gym for a week and expect to walk out a bodybuilder. Nevertheless, I still hold to my opinion that the first 20 points of your plan are awfully specious and of dubious usefulness outside of the American Midwest. I await the unveiling of the, so to speak, meat & potatoes of your plan... because I sure am not impressed with the start of it. Any timeline on when the next chapter hits the cyber-shelves?

[Guest buickman]

Nice copy of your response in another thread BM (that's sarcasm in case you missed it.)

If he is so far off then you shouldn't have any trouble showing the rest of us the light. Unless of course this is another attempt at evading a critical look at the flaws in your plan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I'll respond even though The Plan speaks for itself.

First of all the major challenge GM faces is unquestionable how to sell more automobiles. Products and costs have been addressed to no avail, sales still slip and share keeps dropping.

The step of eliminating destination charges is not simply a price reduction. It would replace another program of equal or greater value that would be allowed to expire. Value pricing tried to do the same thing but hasn't built the goodwill that this step would.

Doing away with mid year increases would avoid the mess we got into with overinflated stickers. It would also show commitment and leadership, both of which are in short supply at GM, if not non existent.

Quarterly incentive changes further establish credibility and give a rational sense of order to the business allowing dealers to properly manage inventory, personnel, advertising, etc... Customers wouldn't worry about losing out or be upset when the deal changes if everyone knew the score.

Bringing award winners to Detroit would greatly reduce expenses and be far preferred to Gerosa's recent rescinding of trips earned by top dealers. He sent a letter telling winners GM couldn't afford to give them the trips they had worked all year to earn, then he announced his retirement. Pete really showed his lack of class with that move.

Coming to Motown would build team unity and increase the excitement for GM and our hometown. How much greater the focus on issues at hand here in Michigan as opposed to some far away desert locale?

Home deliveries are growing in popularity nationwide as customers today are more knowledgeable due to the internet. Saving them time by offering this service would again add to our position of leader and show our compassion for the customers.

Today, GM's incentives are so complex it takes longer to figure a deal than it does to sell a car. The simplicity of Zero adds to it's effectiveness. Remember to KISS.

Offering a rebate to non GM owners while not giving the same to our owners only alienates those who we should value most highly. Returning to the fall annual model change again makes us the leader. If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. Let's not be afraid to take the lead and set the tone. We could also then coordinate our marketing budgets and see far more effective impact in the marketplace.

As to increasing dealer margin, the way for that to happen is for our share to increase. Let's get our dealers back on the same page and watch the results when we act in unison. Let the dealers figure out what to do with the extra juice, they know their business and how best to serve customers in their market. The factory should step back and let the dealers do their job.

Putting VSSM personnel on the street would give a face to an impersonal corporation. The input received from listening to customers would prove invaluable and give our people some sort of common sense which hopefully would serve to counteract some of the nonsensical programs implemented without any idea of the negative impact.

AARP has millions of members nationwide who are a fantastic demographic with large discretionary incomes. OC's criticism of each step individually fails to grasp the potential from the combination of these steps. Remember this is marketing, not production or management of exchange rate fluctuations.

Word of mouth is, and always has been, the single most powerful and effective form of marketing, and also is by far the least expensive. Training our salespeople in the most professional techniques would move us above the competition and most likely lead to retention of the top achievers in the industry, the desparately need.

For further clarification, simply reread The Plan - Five Points, or as commonly referred to...Return to Greatness.

Buickman

[The O.C.]

Oh, puh-leeeeeeeeze. 

Don't put forward a theory or plan and expect it to pass through without citicism. Ever hear of the Scientific Method, for example? And don't dish out harsh criticism yourself and act all hurt and surprised when you get the same back.

That I will agree with. These things take time and effort. A frail man can't expect to go to the Gym for a week and expect to walk out a bodybuilder. Nevertheless, I still hold to my opinion that the first 20 points of your plan are awfully specious and of dubious usefulness outside of the American Midwest. I await the unveiling of the, so to speak, meat & potatoes of your plan... because I sure am not impressed with the start of it. Any timeline on when the next chapter hits the cyber-shelves?

Beautifully said, Petra......!

I have no personal stake in bringing down BM or instigating any sort of mean-spirited "attack." BM means nothing to me in my life or career.

If I may be so bold....I simply provided my commentary on the industry (specifically the Michigan market) that comes from an extensive background in the auto industry spanning many different markets around the country and many different business sectors of the auto industry in general. That coupled with my Buick experience and my time spent in Flint provides a unique outlook to BM's 20 points.

I'm sorry he cannot accept the legitimate criticisms for what they are.....and he has shown his overall immaturity in addressing this issue.

And lest we not forget, when BM first developed the 20 Points, he DID present them as "THE" savior to bringing GM's "Return to Greatness."

It seems that only AFTER so many inside the industry have dismissed him and his 20 points, did he begin to suggest that they were not "THE" solution, but only a beginning "salvo."

Well BM.....where's the rest of your ammunition?

[The O.C.]

OK, I'll respond even though The Plan speaks for itself.

First of all the major challenge GM faces is unquestionable how to sell more automobiles. Products and costs have been addressed to no avail, sales still slip and share keeps dropping.

The step of eliminating destination charges is not simply a price reduction. It would replace another program of equal or greater value that would be allowed to expire. Value pricing tried to do the same thing but hasn't built the goodwill that this step would.

Doing away with mid year increases would avoid the mess we got into with overinflated stickers. It would also show commitment and leadership, both of which are in short supply at GM, if not non existent.

Quarterly incentive changes further establish credibility and give a rational sense of order to the business allowing dealers to properly manage inventory, personnel, advertising, etc... Customers wouldn't worry about losing out or be upset when the deal changes if everyone knew the score.

Bringing award winners to Detroit would greatly reduce expenses and be far preferred to Gerosa's recent rescinding of trips earned by top dealers. He sent a letter telling winners GM couldn't afford to give them the trips they had worked all year to earn, then he announced his retirement. Pete really showed his lack of class with that move.

Coming to Motown would build team unity and increase the excitement for GM and our hometown. How much greater the focus on issues at hand here in Michigan as opposed to some far away desert locale?

Home deliveries are growing in popularity nationwide as customers today are more knowledgeable due to the internet. Saving them time by offering this service would again add to our position of leader and show our compassion for the customers.

Today, GM's incentives are so complex it takes longer to figure a deal than it does to sell a car. The simplicity of Zero adds to it's effectiveness.  Remember to KISS.

Offering a rebate to non GM owners while not giving the same to our owners only alienates those who we should value most highly. Returning to the fall annual model change again makes us the leader. If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. Let's not be afraid to take the lead and set the tone. We could also then coordinate our marketing budgets and see far more effective impact in the marketplace.

As to increasing dealer margin, the way for that to happen is for our share to increase. Let's get our dealers back on the same page and watch the results when we act in unison. Let the dealers figure out what to do with the extra juice, they know their business and how best to serve customers in their market. The factory should step back and let the dealers do their job.

Putting VSSM personnel on the street would give a face to an impersonal corporation. The input received from listening to customers would prove invaluable and give our people some sort of common sense which hopefully would serve to counteract some of the nonsensical programs implemented without any idea of the negative impact.

AARP has millions of members nationwide who are a fantastic demographic with large discretionary incomes. OC's criticism of each step individually fails to grasp the potential from the combination of these steps. Remember this is marketing, not production or management of exchange rate fluctuations.

Word of mouth is, and always has been, the single most powerful and effective form of marketing, and also is by far the least expensive. Training our salespeople in the most professional techniques would move us above the competition and most likely lead to retention of the top achievers in the industry, the desparately need.

For further clarification, simply reread The Plan - Five Points, or as commonly referred to...Return to Greatness.

Buickman

Read it....

And all you basically did is reiterate your supportive arguments that are already IN your 20 points.

What I was welcoming from you was a pointed debate or discussion relative to MY criticisms of your points. In other words, do to me what I did to you.

Take my criticisms, point-by-point, and provide your direct rebuttal to MY points. Don't just reiterate what you've already said.

I don't expect you'll ever do that.....but at least I thought that sort of head-on debate would make the discussion more interesting.

Edited July 4, 2006 by The O.C.

[Guest buickman]

Basically the issue remains that we simply disagree on whether or not The Plan as outlined would be effective. At this juncture, further discussion is redundant. I claim it will work, you feel otherwise. You have extensive experience as do I. I led the country 6 times in sales, turned around a number of dealers and successfully advised others. I've been nominated to the Board by individuals who have heard me speak in Wilmington and have received support from a wide cross section of industry participants and followers. My record speaks for itself. You are more than entitled to your opinions, however I respectfully think you are in error regarding the potential of Return to Greatness. I appreciate your criticisms and am thankful for the time you have spent in presenting your side of the situation.

Buickman

Edited July 4, 2006 by buickman

[91z4me]

Alright I think it is time to let O.C.'s cover be blown since BM is trying to compare resume's. I have held the secret long and hard but the time has come O.C. is in fact:

Rick Wagner

[The O.C.]

Alright I think it is time to let O.C.'s cover be blown since BM is trying to compare resume's.  I have held the secret long and hard but the time has come O.C. is in fact:

Rick Wagner 

EFF YOU!

I'm WAY cuter than that pock-mark-faced giant......

[Cory Wolfe]

BM... BS... what's the difference exactly?

[evok]

He's slicker than KY Jelly.

He spews more crap than a new born baby.

His ego is the size of Uranus.

Who is this board troll?

He's BM.

Any by the way I did create that photo. I just did a yahoo image search for BM.

Edited July 6, 2006 by evok

[97regalGS]

He's slicker than KY Jelly.

He spews more crap than a new born baby.

His ego is the size of Uranus.

Who is this board troll?

He's BM.

Any by the way I did create that photo.  I just did a yahoo image search for BM.

where is his trusty sidekick mini-BM, aka "The Shelf"

It seems "The Shelf" is rather aloof. However, there are some photos of mini-BM, or at least partial photos of him...............

http://www.freshpair.com/Hugo-Boss-Athleti...BM%20U%20A.html

Edited July 7, 2006 by 97regalGS

[The O.C.]

He's slicker than KY Jelly.

He spews more crap than a new born baby.

His ego is the size of Uranus.

Who is this board troll?

He's BM.

Any by the way I did create that photo.  I just did a yahoo image search for BM.

163392[/snapback]

That's Fu--ing HILARIOUS!