Ford News: Sportier 2025 Mustang Mach-e Debutes

[G. David Felt]

The introduction of the 2025 Mustang Mach-e has kept the list of new features small, but Ford believes it has delivered big for what the EV customers want.

• Added Standard Equipment: The 2025 Mustang Mach-E^® adds a heat pump to help optimize energy consumption, especially in colder weather conditions 
• More Personalization: A Sport Appearance Package offers Mustang Mach-E GT design elements on Premium models; new colors and wheels are also available
• Enhanced BlueCruise: The latest version of hands-free highway driving, adds Automatic Lane Change, automating up to 45% of lane changes on an average drive, based on internal testing

Ford believes that their strong relationship with the Mach-e community is allowing them to deliver what the customer wants in a high quality approach that delivers the best version of the Mach-e possible while not overloading the customer with too much technology. The key features that they have been asking for per Donna Dickson, Mustang Mach-e chief engineer.

Premium and sporty without the cost is what many customers asked for, the look of a GT without the price of the GT has allowed Ford to offer a Sport Appearance Package that brings in the key styling cues from the GT at a much-reduced price point.

BlueCruise 1.5 introduces tried and true to the big blue the seamlessly performing lane change without driver input. To quote Ford: "BlueCruise 1.5 will initiate a lane change if the vehicle ahead is slower than the set speed or if a vehicle is following too closely in the passing lane. It keeps drivers engaged longer in hands-free mode and helps navigate traffic. Internal testing shows BlueCruise 1.5 automates up to 45% of driver-initiated lane changes on a typical drive."

New for 2025 is the enhanced Ford Connectivity Package that includes the following:

• Wi-Fi® Hotspot: 5G Wi-Fi keeps drivers and their family online and connected while on the road. This can be used for up to 10 personal devices and can extend up to 50 feet from the vehicle, great for camping or tailgating.  

• Apps: Access apps via the in-vehicle screen to watch YouTube or sing along to in-vehicle karaoke while parked. Occupants can also stream their favorite audio entertainment apps via Alexa.

• Maps: Access Connected Navigation to get where you need to go, including features such as EV Trip Planner, Predictive Destinations, and Route Guidance.

Ford will offer for those that wish to custom order a select one-time purchase without having to setup a plan for Ford Connectivity. The customer will then forgo the 1-year free test trial and purchase the Ford Connectivity package that is active for a minimum of seven years (nontransferable to another VIN). No additional subscription purchase will be required to maintain connectivity service beyond the seven years if the service is available.

Personalization choices are a key focus for Ford for the 2025 model year. Ford is wanting to give more personalize ways to customize their Mach-e

• Three new color options for 2025
  • Molten Magenta Metallic Tinted Clearcoat
  • Velocity Blue Metallic
  • Desert Sand
• New wheel designs including Dark Carbonized Gray wheel for the Mach-e Rally
• Mustang Mach-e GT Performance Upgrade factory option available through the FordPass app after Delivery.

2025 Mustang Mach-e goes on sale in early 2025 with a NEW Lower MSRP retail price starting at $36,495.

 

View full article

[smk4565]

If they could get these to quality for the $7500 tax credit they would be cheaper than the Escape.

[surreal1272]

Meanwhile Ford's own CEO won't even represent his EV products on the road because he prefers to drive one from China. Seriously Ford.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ceo-ford-says-hes-driving-115916540.html

[Robert Hall]

The Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 Farley is driving has a mix of McLaren and Porsche styling cues, with Lincoln MKZ-inspired taillights.

 

 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

The Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 Farley is driving has a mix of McLaren and Porsche styling cues, with Lincoln MKZ-inspired taillights.

Right on!!!

And dont forget it also has the silhouettes and profiles of a Tesla Model S.

 

 

 

Despite Elon, Id rather be driving the Model S than the Chinese knock-off.

 

 

 

Edited October 28 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

The profile reminds me a lot of the Taycan.  

[oldshurst442]

the c pillar is definitely more Porsche.

 

The Porsche is more stretched out making it look longer than the Speed 7.   The Taycan is longer than the Tesla but the Super 7, in pictures, looks like its more akin to a shorter body like the Tesla. Anyway you sees it, the Super 7 is an attractive machine, but as Chinese usual, its a knock-off with many COPIED inspirations from other vehicles and signature design languages from other brands. 

[Robert Hall]

The profile reminds me a lot of the Taycan.  The Taycan is the shortest of the 3, the Model S the longest, though all 3 are within a couple inches of overall length. 

[oldshurst442]

I would have never been able to guess that the Model S is actually longer and the Taycan the shortest.  Visual styling cues doing their thang. 

The Model S looks the stubbiest...

The Taycan being the sexiest although I prefer its Audi cousin a LOT more.

Ill repeat, the Super 7 is attractive, but its the 'looking over your shoulder stealing your answers in a test cheating highschooler kid' of the 3 of them. 

[Robert Hall]

Back on track, the Mach-e Rally looks good.  I like the changes compared to a standard Mach-e.

 

[G. David Felt]

48 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Back on track, the Mach-e Rally looks good.  I like the changes compared to a standard Mach-e.

 

I wonder when Ford will go to an 800V architecture like Kia/Hyundai/Genesis has as that would also improve charging and performance.

[ccap41]

19 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

I wonder when Ford will go to an 800V architecture like Kia/Hyundai/Genesis has as that would also improve charging and performance.

My guess would be the 2nd gen of this and the F150 Lightning. 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

My guess would be the 2nd gen of this and the F150 Lightning. 

I wonder if that will happen when their Skunk Works project for below $30,000 EVs goes to market as they standardize the whole EV family on 400V for inexpensive EVs and 800V for the more expensive and midtier EVs.

[surreal1272]

On 10/28/2024 at 5:40 PM, G. David Felt said:

I wonder when Ford will go to an 800V architecture like Kia/Hyundai/Genesis has as that would also improve charging and performance.

Maybe when they actually get serious about EVs, they will do this. Maybe when their CEO stops driving around town in his Chinese made EV (that he admits he doesn't want to ditch), they will do this. Somehow, though, I doubt it. They have spent the past year slow walking back from EVs and production so the thought of them adding in some 800V set ups is far fetched, at the moment. It starts at the top of Ford and Farley has shown that he is not that committed to the EV game. And until I see some actual fruits of their labor, the Skunk Works project is aptly named.

Edited October 30 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Maybe when they actually get serious about EVs, they will do this. Maybe when their CEO stops driving around town in his Chinese made EV (that he admits he doesn't want to ditch), they will do this. Somehow, though, I doubt it. They have spent the past year slow walking back from EVs and production so the thought of them adding in some 800V set ups is far fetched, at the moment. It starts at the top of Ford and Farley has shown that he is not that committed to the EV game. And until I see some actual fruits of their labor, the Skunk Works project is aptly named.

Not committed to the EV game? They made an EV version of their two most recognized nameplates, F150 and Mustang, and are both very respectable entries in the segment. Neither is a bad product by any means. They also have an E-Transit that accounts for roughly 10% of all Transit sales. 

Genuinely asking, What do you need to see to convince you they are "committed to the EV game"? 

[surreal1272]

On 10/30/2024 at 1:28 PM, ccap41 said:

Not committed to the EV game? They made an EV version of their two most recognized nameplates, F150 and Mustang, and are both very respectable entries in the segment. Neither is a bad product by any means. They also have an E-Transit that accounts for roughly 10% of all Transit sales. 

Genuinely asking, What do you need to see to convince you they are "committed to the EV game"? 

Are we going to act like they didn’t do and say the things mentioned in the article below? I also never said one word about the product being bad. Thats putting words in my mouth. They have, however, pushed back several potential EVs hence my statement above. 

 

https://www.wired.com/story/ford-steps-back-from-evs-and-says-hybrids-are-the-future/

Edited October 31 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Are we going to act like they didn’t do and say the things mentioned in the article below? I also never said one word about the product being bad. Thats putting words in my mouth. They have, however, pushed back several potential EVs hence my statement above. 

 

https://www.wired.com/story/ford-steps-back-from-evs-and-says-hybrids-are-the-future/

Per your link, "What we've learned is that customers want choice, and so we're providing that choice, with a full lineup of EVs, hybrid, electric, gas and diesel products," said Lawler."

Just because they're scaling back on the speed to getting more EVs out there, doesn't mean they're not serious or committed to them. 

They pushed back "several" EVs? Name 3. Heck, name one that isn't the 3-row one that was supposed to arrive next year or so. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Per your link, "What we've learned is that customers want choice, and so we're providing that choice, with a full lineup of EVs, hybrid, electric, gas and diesel products," said Lawler."

Just because they're scaling back on the speed to getting more EVs out there, doesn't mean they're not serious or committed to them. 

They pushed back "several" EVs? Name 3. Heck, name one that isn't the 3-row one that was supposed to arrive next year or so. 

Doesn’t matter the date of the 3 row and you are making my point. All those other choices are not EVs and you left out the part where they thought EV demand had cooled hence their above statements.  Meanwhile, Kia has a three row EV rocking the roads here while Fire kicks the can. Point being they have, in fact, dialed down their EV future so my original point stands about taking them seriously right now. That can change but right now, the proof is right there in front of you and sitting in the Ford CEOs driveway (all the way from China). This is not an attempt to dog Ford. Just stating the obvious facts. Remember. We are talking about EVs only, not EVs, hybrids, and ICE.

Edited October 31 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Per your link, "What we've learned is that customers want choice, and so we're providing that choice, with a full lineup of EVs, hybrid, electric, gas and diesel products," said Lawler."

Just because they're scaling back on the speed to getting more EVs out there, doesn't mean they're not serious or committed to them. 

They pushed back "several" EVs? Name 3. Heck, name one that isn't the 3-row one that was supposed to arrive next year or so. 

? Delayed indefinitely the mid-size EV Pickup, 3 row EV SUV and since it is a division of Ford, all the Lincoln EVs that were supposed to happen and now Lincoln will stay ICE with Hybrids as they stopped EV all together.

So yea, you can say Ford is not committed to EVs anymore.

Remember this was all the rage in 2022 when stories like this came out and Lincoln was to kill off all ICE by 2030, no EVs are dead as Lincoln will have hybrids between now and 2030 with Ice continuing on well into the undefined future.

5 Electric Lincoln Models Are Expected by 2026: Reuters Report

So I would say Ford is NOT committed to EVs, they have pretty much kicked it to the curb.

Ford Blue Campus was the Rage to be online by January 1st 2025 with battery production and the mid-size EV Truck and other EVs to start between 2025 and 2026.

BlueOval City

Now the latest is that production of batteries will start end of 2027 at the earliest with no time set for EV production. Hiring of the 6,000 workers by 2025 is now by 2030 at the earliest.

What to know: The new Ford BlueOval City plant poised to reshape West Tennessee • Tennessee Lookout

So yea, this tends to show no commitment to EVs Compared to other brands. IMHO

[G. David Felt]

Guess Ford which has 50 to 60 day supply of most models is shutting down the F150 Lighting line due to having 100 plus days of supply till January 6th 2025 and is looking to do the same for Mach-e and Transit that has a 128 and 112 day inventory on hand.

Ford to halt production of electric F-150 Lightning next month until January

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

Guess Ford which has 50 to 60 day supply of most models is shutting down the F150 Lighting line due to having 100 plus days of supply till January 6th 2025 and is looking to do the same for Mach-e and Transit that has a 128 and 112 day inventory on hand.

Ford to halt production of electric F-150 Lightning next month until January

Thus supporting my statements about their overall "commitment" towards EVs. It's not that the product is "bad" because it isn't. It is, however, bad planning by Ford to dial it down while the competition is dialing it up (looking at companies like Kia here). It's okay though. Farley gets to roll around in his Chinese EV while his company flounders around with their own EVs.

[Robert Hall]

Didn't Ford put their giant EV truck plant plans in the Memphis area on hold? 

Sometimes it seems some automakers EV plans are reminiscent of a classic South Park meme..

1. Invest heavily in new EVs

2. ?

3. Profit 

Edited November 1 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Didn't Ford put their giant EV truck plant plans in the Memphis area on hold? 

Sometimes it seems some automakers EV plans are reminiscent of a classic South Park meme..

1. Invest heavily in new EVs

2. ?

3. Profit 

Correct, they have on their whole EV expansion put much on hold, delayed much as I posted above where this is all covered under their BlueOval City which the local Tennessee news has covered on all the delays and slowdown in work. Yet they got their huge tax breaks but the work will be delayed / possibly killed.

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Thus supporting my statements about their overall "commitment" towards EVs. It's not that the product is "bad" because it isn't. It is, however, bad planning by Ford to dial it down while the competition is dialing it up (looking at companies like Kia here). It's okay though. Farley gets to roll around in his Chinese EV while his company flounders around with their own EVs.

Yes, Kia, Hyundai,Genesis have moved forward to dominate the world and compete against the Chinese while the American companies now Cower in their tower, drive chinese versions and complain.

GM has FAILED to see what the customer wants as they go after charging to get the same app on their EVs. Will not be getting my money any longer as they fail to listen to their customers.

I can see Korea auto companies dominating the US market in a few decades.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Thus supporting my statements about their overall "commitment" towards EVs. It's not that the product is "bad" because it isn't. It is, however, bad planning by Ford to dial it down while the competition is dialing it up (looking at companies like Kia here). It's okay though. Farley gets to roll around in his Chinese EV while his company flounders around with their own EVs.

More Support that Ford is making a big mistake, Hyundai based on presale orders has increased the all new Ioniq 9 for global markets by 30% as they now plan to produce 210,000 of them for 2025.

Kia, Hyundai, Genesis say spacious EVs at proper price points will drive adoption and that will be shown by their EV3 subcompact that will hit the US for Kia in 2025.

https://thekoreancarblog.com/2024/10/30/next-gen-palisade-set-for-december-debut-30-production-increase/

GM better get a move on with their $25,000 Bolt if they want to dominate a chunk of the market.

[ccap41]

Ford "isn't committed" but they have the exact same number of available EVs for sale right now as Hyundai, Kia, and Chevy. 3. 

 

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Ford "isn't committed" but they have the exact same number of available EVs for sale right now as Hyundai, Kia, and Chevy. 3. 

 

Hyundai has Kona Electric, Ioniq 5 & 6. = 3 models, 1 car & 2 SUVs

Kia has Niro EV, EV6 and EV9 = 3 models, 3 SUVs

Genesis has GV60, GV70 and GV80 = 3 models, 1 car & 2 SUVs

All 3 models are retail home users

Ford has the F150 Lighting Pickup Truck and Mach-e = 2 models, 1 truck & 1 SUV

Ford has Commercial Transit delivery Van = 1 model commercial segment

So yes, you can say each company has 3 EVs, but Ford is really only 2 EVs in the retail space with 1 in the commercial space.

Ford has 3 EVs in Europe & China, Transit-E, Mache-e and Puma-e, introduced at the Shanghai auto show new hybrids but nothing else in EVs.

Kia has 3 models in China the EV5, EV6 and EV9 SUVs, with the EV4 & 8 both cars to start in 2025 along with the EV3 SUV. giving Kia 6 models by the end of 2024.

Hyundai Ioniq 5 & 6 gives them 2 models in China. Hyundai announced 3 new EV models to launch in 2025 for China.

Genesis has the same models in the US in China and Europe.

End result is that Hyundai, Kia, Genesis is expanding their EV offerings across the globe while Ford stops EVs and turns to Hybrids with Success in the U.S. but limited success in China, Asian rim and Europe.

Biggest problem with Ford and GM is they followed Tesla to a T in going after slower 400V EV versions rather than looking to the future of building fast charging offerings on 800V technology.

Investing billions in a current tech rather than the future tech of where EVs were going was a big mistake.

 

[ccap41]

24 minutes ago, G. David Felt said:

Ford has the F150 Lighting Pickup Truck and Mach-e = 2 models, 1 truck & 1 SUV

Ford has Commercial Transit delivery Van = 1 model commercial segment

As far as I know, anybody can order an E-Transit. It's silly and petty to not include it as a Ford vehicle. 

I'm not finding anything saying you or I cannot purchase one and they have to be "fleet only".

24 minutes ago, G. David Felt said:

Ford has 3 EVs in Europe & China, Transit-E, Mache-e and Puma-e, introduced at the Shanghai auto show new hybrids but nothing else in EVs.

Ford has the Electric Explorer still coming out in Europe so that'd be a 4th offering in the EU. 

Also, it's the Capri(that isn't out yet), Mach-e, E-Transit, and also upcoming Explorer. 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/products.html

 

[G. David Felt]

22 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

As far as I know, anybody can order an E-Transit. It's silly and petty to not include it as a Ford vehicle. 

I'm not finding anything saying you or I cannot purchase one and they have to be "fleet only".

Ford has the Electric Explorer still coming out in Europe so that'd be a 4th offering in the EU. 

Also, it's the Capri(that isn't out yet), Mach-e, E-Transit, and also upcoming Explorer. 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/products.html

 

Yes anyone can order the E-Transit, but considering that they do not offer a family version and Ford has been very clear that the focused selling is via their fleet channel, why would a family buy a tin can EV Transit for family use?

Nothing in these 3 model offerings say Family or Retail EV.

[ccap41]

16 minutes ago, G. David Felt said:

Yes anyone can order the E-Transit, but considering that they do not offer a family version and Ford has been very clear that the focused selling is via their fleet channel, why would a family buy a tin can EV Transit for family use?

Nothing in these 3 model offerings say Family or Retail EV.

Why does that matter? That doesn't make the EV less of an EV. You're trying to dismiss it because it isn't for families and therefore it's less of an EV offering and effort by Ford? 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Why does that matter? That doesn't make the EV less of an EV. You're trying to dismiss it because it isn't for families and therefore it's less of an EV offering and effort by Ford? 

Not dismissing it, it is an EV offering, but not one that the traditional retail customers would look at, as such more specialty dedicated.

Example of this EV is GM with Brightdrop that they merged under the Chevrolet banner now. They have the BrightDrop 600 and 400 commercial vans as well as the chassis version like ford. This is 3 more EVs one could tag onto the Chevrolet banner then saying they have a total of 6 EVs, Equinox, Blazer, Silverado and Brightdrop. Yet retail customers are not going to buy a specialty van that is unfinished inside to drive their family around in if we are honest with ourselves just as retail customers are not going to buy the Transit-e. They are specialty EVs aimed at the commercial / fleet market.

[oldshurst442]

Problem is though, that althougn Chevrolet only has 3 EVs to sell, like Ford, Chevrolet falls under the GM umbrella, just like Ford falls under the FoMoCo umbrella and well Lincoln, does Lincoln have any EVs to sell as of now?  I am presuming and assuming the answer is zeeee-row.  As in like a big circle...like the letter o but written like this: 0.  More elongated and egg shaped rather than a perfect circle. 

Because GMC has 2, the Hummer pick-up and SUV, they are toys, but still and Cadillac has 1 right now, the Lyriq. But in 2025 will have an additional 3. The Optiq, the Escalade IQ and the halo car Celestiq. Making GM have 9 for 2025.

Hyundai/Kia together because under SAME umbrella have 6 or 7 or 8.  I dont feel like counting.  FoMoCo has only 3. 

Just sayin' is what Im sayin'. 

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Problem is though, that althougn Chevrolet only has 3 EVs to sell, like Ford, Chevrolet falls under the GM umbrella, just like Ford falls under the FoMoCo umbrella and well Lincoln, does Lincoln have any EVs to sell as of now?  I am presuming and assuming the answer is zeeee-row.  As in like a big circle...like the letter o but written like this: 0.  More elongated and egg shaped rather than a perfect circle. 

Because GMC has 2, the Hummer pick-up and SUV, they are toys, but still and Cadillac has 1 right now, the Lyriq. But in 2025 will have an additional 3. The Optiq, the Escalade IQ and the halo car Celestiq. Making GM have 9 for 2025.

Hyundai/Kia together because under SAME umbrella have 6 or 7 or 8.  I dont feel like counting.  FoMoCo has only 3. 

Just sayin' is what Im sayin'. 

Yes, Lincoln killed all EVs and has decided that they will go full Hybrid for the portfolio, so Ford has just 3 if you combine Fleet and retail.

GM as a full family for 2024 has 9 when you combine fleet and retail

• Chevrolet Equinox EV
• Chevrolet Blazer EV
• Chevrolet Silverado EV
• GMC Hummer Pickup
• GMC Hummer SUV
• GMC Sierra EV
• Cadillac LYRIQ
• Chevrolet Brightdrop 400
• Chevrolet Brightdrop 600
• Chevrolet Brightdrop chassis cab

In 2025 will add:

• Cadillac Optiq
• Cadillac Escalade IQ
• Cadillac Celestiq
• Chevrolet BOLT - Possible two models to come in 2025. UPDATE
• GMC Terrain - Unconfirmed at this time since earlier 2024 EV roadmap
• Buick Electra - Unconfirmed at this time since earlier 2024 announcement

If GM delivers on just adding Cadillac that is 12 or 14 EVs in the portfolio, or 14 if the GMC and Buick show up, but I expect they will be push back.

Kia / Hyundai / Genesis has 9 EVs total, 3 retail versions in each brand, but Hyundai is adding the Ioniq 9 for 2025, Genesis is adding the GV90 SUV to compete with Escalade IQ in 2025 and Kia has had their EV9 Pickup truck running around LA in testing which implies we will see something maybe at the LA autoshow. So they could end up with 12 EVs by the end of 2025.

GM / Hyundai / Kia / Genesis EVs compared to Ford shows Ford having fallen far behind in this transition and will be even harder to catch up too imho.

Updated as I forgot to include the Chevrolet BOLT that GM has stated will come out in 2025 and they have talked about two models of the Bolt. 

[oldshurst442]

I forgot about the Sierra EV.  At GMC for me, its only the Hummers that register in my head. 

And I forgot about Buick all together. Can you blame me?   Buick is pretty darn forgettable lately.  But regardless, Buicks are another EV add-ons to GM's EV line-up.  Like FoMoCo though, GM also push backed their EVs, but not entirely like Ford and not as abrupt and not as drastic. GM did make a hiccup like eliminating all their hybrids and gasoline generator style EVs, but like I have ranted a week or two in another thread, or was it this one?  Hybrids in North America ONLY because North Americans have been made to be afraid of an EV future.  Needlessly I MUST add.  But that is for another discussion on another day in a different thread. 

But I must say that FoMoCo might not have a choice to scale back like they are doing.  BECAUSE of this North American fear of EVs, and EVs STILL being too expensive to produce and not selling at the rate that would make OEMs some money...FoMoCo WISELY retracted.  In my humble BUT hinest opinion.

Look at Volkwagen. VAG.  Their EVs are not selling a ton. Here or in Europe for that matter anyore. BUT...their gasoline cars have ALSO stalled in sales. In North America but surprise surprise, in Europe too.  And BECAUSE they have gone ALL OUT on EVs, not ONLY are they down 2 million units in sales from last year, BUT their all out EV venture is COSTING them BIIIIIIG time in profits. And they are GOING to not ONLY shut down factories in Germany, but they are going to lay off workers.  And on both accounts, that is a BIIIIIIG nein nein nein in Germany and their unions. But I think Volkswagen told the German government and the unions tough cookies... 

So...I think FoMoCo WISELY took this decision to cool it (with EVs).  Gasoline powered F150s keep the lights on. And so gasoline powered F150s and gasoline powered Mustangs should rightfully take precedence over anything else.   Survival is the key here.  VAG is in survival mode. But compare that to what Ford done and what VAG will do, Id rather see what FoMoCo done... 

Edited November 2 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I forgot about the Sierra EV.  At GMC for me, its only the Hummers that register in my head. 

And I forgot about Buick all together. Can you blame me?   Buick is pretty darn forgettable lately.  But regardless, Buicks are another EV add-ons to GM's EV line-up.  Like FoMoCo though, GM also push backed their EVs, but not entirely like Ford and not as abrupt and not as drastic. GM did make a hiccup like eliminating all their hybrids and gasoline generator style EVs, but like I have ranted a week or two in another thread, or was it this one?  Hybrids in North America ONLY because North Americans have been made to be afraid of an EV future.  Needlessly I MUST add.  But that is for another discussion on another day in a different thread. 

But I must say that FoMoCo might not have a choice to scale back like they are doing.  BECAUSE of this North American fear of EVs, and EVs STILL being too expensive to produce and not selling at the rate that would make OEMs some money...FoMoCo WISELY retracted.  In my humble BUT hinest opinion.

Look at Volkwagen. VAG.  Their EVs are not selling a ton. Here or in Europe for that matter anyore. BUT...their gasoline cars have ALSO stalled in sales. In North America but surprise surprise, in Europe too.  And BECAUSE they have gone ALL OUT on EVs, not ONLY are they down 2 million units in sales from last year, BUT their all out EV venture is COSTING them BIIIIIIG time in profits. And they are GOING to not ONLY shut down factories in Germany, but they are going to lay off workers.  And on both accounts, that is a BIIIIIIG nein nein nein in Germany and their unions. But I think Volkswagen told the German government and the unions tough cookies... 

So...I think FoMoCo WISELY took this decision to cool it (with EVs).  Gasoline powered F150s keep the lights on. And so gasoline powered F150s and gasoline powered Mustangs should rightfully take precedence over anything else.   Survival is the key here.  VAG is in survival mode. But compare that to what Ford done and what VAG will do, Id rather see what FoMoCo done... 

I updated my post as I forgot as a 2026 model, we will see the NEW Ultium based Chevrolet BOLT based on the EUV. GM has said there will be two models that will allow them to have a low priced mid $25K EV and a Higher priced Bolt EV $30K below the Equinox. That would give them two models to compete against the Kia EV3 that is launching in Spring 2025 at a mid $25,000 price point or below $20K with IRA rebate.

[surreal1272]

16 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Ford "isn't committed" but they have the exact same number of available EVs for sale right now as Hyundai, Kia, and Chevy. 3. 

 

With zero committed in the U.S. for the next 3-4 years while the competition has multiple EVs coming out during that time.

 

Oh and since we are talking numbers, here are some for you. (and I saw, after the fact, that @G. David Felt covered this more thoroughly lol), I'm going to simnply it here.

 

Total EVs offered by:

 

GM-9 (7 if you remove the outgoing Bolt models) and this DOE NOT include their commercial EV lineup (Bright Drop).

 

Ford Motor Co.-3 which does include a fleet majority sold Transit. 

 

But you think Ford is committed to US EV production. You can wax semantics until the cows come home but all the facts and related articles were posted as proof here and it tracks with what Ford has done (or not done in this case) with EVs. Present models excluded, they have no real product plan compared to the competition and that is a fact.

Edited November 2 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/ford-stalling-f-150-lightning-203840273.html

 

 

But Ford is committed to EVs.

[ccap41]

On 11/1/2024 at 6:07 PM, oldshurst442 said:

Problem is though, that althougn Chevrolet only has 3 EVs to sell, like Ford, Chevrolet falls under the GM umbrella, just like Ford falls under the FoMoCo umbrella and well Lincoln, does Lincoln have any EVs to sell as of now?  I am presuming and assuming the answer is zeeee-row.  As in like a big circle...like the letter o but written like this: 0.  More elongated and egg shaped rather than a perfect circle. 

Because GMC has 2, the Hummer pick-up and SUV, they are toys, but still and Cadillac has 1 right now, the Lyriq. But in 2025 will have an additional 3. The Optiq, the Escalade IQ and the halo car Celestiq. Making GM have 9 for 2025.

Hyundai/Kia together because under SAME umbrella have 6 or 7 or 8.  I dont feel like counting.  FoMoCo has only 3. 

Just sayin' is what Im sayin'. 

Yes, but I was trying to stay brand to brand, because those are what are competing with each other. Also, you missed Cadillac and Genesis, if you're trying to group them all into one. The other reason I didn't group them all together is because those brands are badge-engineering the same vehicle with a different brand's logo. EV6 and Ioniq5? Blazer and Lyriq? 

But, yes, General Motors and Hyundai Motor Company has more EVs than Ford Motor Company. 

[ccap41]

On 11/2/2024 at 2:04 PM, surreal1272 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/ford-stalling-f-150-lightning-203840273.html

 

 

But Ford is committed to EVs.

Notice how they say "stall" and not "cancel" ? Just because they're delaying things, doesn't mean they're not committed to them. 

Just because they won't have 10 out by 2030, doesn't mean they're not committed. They still have multiple EV manufacturing plants going up. One in Michigan, one in Tennessee, and two battery plants in Kentucky. Yes, they've been delayed, but they didn't stop construction and just abandon the plans all together. They're spending billions on these plants yet somehow you and David don't think they're committed. 

[ccap41]

On 11/1/2024 at 5:40 PM, G. David Felt said:

Not dismissing it, it is an EV offering, but not one that the traditional retail customers would look at, as such more specialty dedicated.

I guess I don't understand why it matters if it is a retail customer or a fleet customer. They've sold ~10,000 of them this year.

[G. David Felt]

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Notice how they say "stall" and not "cancel" ? Just because they're delaying things, doesn't mean they're not committed to them. 

Just because they won't have 10 out by 2030, doesn't mean they're not committed. They still have multiple EV manufacturing plants going up. One in Michigan, one in Tennessee, and two battery plants in Kentucky. Yes, they've been delayed, but they didn't stop construction and just abandon the plans all together. They're spending billions on these plants yet somehow you and David don't think they're committed. 

In business, it is a countable noun, it tends to mean to stop or cause something to stop, usually before possibly continuing again.

Based on how business sees a stall, I would have to say that Ford would be committed if they were moving forward with updates on the existing EVs, instead they have stopped all further development as they wait for their so-called skunk works project which makes no sense to me.

Other than the few updates that Ford Confirmed at the start of this year for Mach-e and F150 Lighting, everything else has been Stalled as the engineers have been reassigned to Hybrid or HD work according to ford.

Ford Commitment would be moving forward to lower cost on current EVs rather than stopping the building of the battery plants that would lower cost as well as other plant use.
IMHO

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I guess I don't understand why it matters if it is a retail customer or a fleet customer. They've sold ~10,000 of them this year.

Two different segments, totally different type of customers. The approach to how it is seen in the industry is very different as to why the media tends to not group fleet and retail together.