2017 Lincoln Navigator - Thoughts?

[ccap41]

Hey guys!

I kind of accidently came across this while just looking for something to fit our needs. I certainly don't need something quite this large, but it does seem pretty awesome.

So anyway, I came across a 2017 Lincoln Navigator Reserve priced at 18,7XX. It does have a lot of miles, but all full-size SUVs(regardless of brand) seem to last forever as long as you don't neglect them. It has 128k on the odometer already. It kind of worries me, but it isn't 1990 and vehicles last a heck of a lot longer than they used to. This price is what really made me look into it further because it's really good. Most anything else full size has either more miles or costs considerably more. This more or less "fell into my lap" while just looking for other vehicles to replace the MKC.

It's the last year of this generation of Navigator along with the final year of the gen1 EcoBoost and 6spd auto. I would have to imagine that combination should be pretty bulletproof at the last year of production, right? FWIW, this is a 380hp/460tq version of the gen1 EcoBoost. The previous owners seem to have maintained it pretty well with oil change intervals of 5-8k. I have read these EcoBoosts need frequent oil changes and not to exceed 5k with full syn. That part isn't an issue for me, but the previous owners weren't as strict as I would be. in addition to the oil change intervals, Per the Carfax, and what I saw in person, it has all new front brakes (pads and rotors) and wheel bearings. It also has a brand new set of tires on it (a brand I don't recognize and not what I'd choose, but still great to have). 

My wife and I went and looked at it in person Saturday, after hours, to just get an idea of how clean or not clean it was on the outside. It's surprisingly REALLY clean. I figured there would at least be a scuffed wheel or two, but there wasn't. 

Well guys, what do you think? 

Here are some pictures from their website, that I also linked below.

https://www.stauntonchrysler.com/used/Lincoln/2017-Lincoln-Navigator-a7f35ee3ac18177fef5a1c1aa81e45c7.htm

 

[ccap41]

Opinions from the regulars, @Drew Dowdell, @G. David Felt, @Robert Hall, @A Horse With No Name, @daves87rs, @trinacriabob, @surreal1272, @smk4565if he's still out there... @oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

She ain't purdy, but she'll do.

Keep in mind that while these might be able to run on regular, you will feel the difference both in refinement and fuel economy if you do. They much prefer premium. Other than that, they are fairly solid. Some of them have run into VVT actuator issues that make them sound like they have a valve tap, but at this mileage, if it hasn't already happened, you're probably good. 

My issue with it is the price for the miles. I think you can do a better price for that mileage or lower milage for that price.  

[ccap41]

39 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

My issue with it is the price for the miles. I think you can do a better price for that mileage or lower milage for that price.  

Genuinely not trying to be a dick, but can you find something that fits that in your area? I've come across a '17 Expedition Limited for basically the same price w/ 110k miles on it...but it's 5 hours away. My wife and I used to be totally down to make a trip for a vehicle that fits our budget and vehicle criteria, but it's a little different with a little one now. I don't think I'd make a 10hr round trip purchase with a 9mo old. 

I pretty much find the opposite without going considerably older. I should also note that the 17's have CarPlay and anything older does not, at least at Ferd. I'm not tied to Ford/Lincoln, they just seem to be cheaper than the GM triplet. 

[surreal1272]

That price is way high for the mileage and I think gas consumption will be no fun (especially if you’re running premium). There are better deals and SUVs IMO. 

[ccap41]

52 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

She ain't purdy, but she'll do.

Yeah, it's one of those ugly vehicles that I still think look kind of good. If that even makes sense, Hahaha. 

I'm trying to think of another ugly vehicle that I like, but nothing is popping into be head right now. 

[Drew Dowdell]

22 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Genuinely not trying to be a dick, but can you find something that fits that in your area? I've come across a '17 Expedition Limited for basically the same price w/ 110k miles on it...but it's 5 hours away. My wife and I used to be totally down to make a trip for a vehicle that fits our budget and vehicle criteria, but it's a little different with a little one now. I don't think I'd make a 10hr round trip purchase with a 9mo old. 

I pretty much find the opposite without going considerably older. I should also note that the 17's have CarPlay and anything older does not, at least at Ferd. I'm not tied to Ford/Lincoln, they just seem to be cheaper than the GM triplet. 

Well, what's more important to you? Budget or Mileage?

[ccap41]

I don't think you guys realize how well all of these full-size SUVs hold their value. 

[ccap41]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Well, what's more important to you? Budget or Mileage?

Budget. If this weren't priced right, I wouldn't consider it. We don't NEED this vehicle or something this large. 

I just really despise most anything else in this year-range that's a smaller 3-row SUV, Traverses, Explorers, Highlanders, basic-Durangos, whatever-Kia/Hyundai-3-row-SUV-that's-boring-as-fck-too.

I've been keeping an eye out for the 03-05 Aviators. They're either all trashed or asking 10-12k for one with less than 100k miles. They just don't seem worth it, even though I think they're cool. 

I've also been keeping an eye out on the 06-10 Explorers with the 4.6, but almost everybody ordered theirs with the slow and inefficient 4.0 V6. 

[surreal1272]

29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think you guys realize how well all of these full-size SUVs hold their value. 

Well you did ask lol and, for the record, most of those are very much overpriced. 

[Drew Dowdell]

43 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think you guys realize how well all of these full-size SUVs hold their value. 

Those all seem really overpriced. If it's not an urgent need, I'd continue to wait and look. Keep in mind that in 2020, I bought a 7-year-old Avalanche with 12k miles for $32k. A 2017 Tahoe today is the same age as my Avalanche was then. 

 

What about an XC90? Used 2017 Volvo XC90 | Carvana

Or Ford Flex (people who have them, love them) Used 2018 Ford Flex | Carvana

Or you can stick with the ugly duckling theme - Used 2019 Lincoln MKT | Carvana

Even a Mercedes GL - https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/3244088

Finding a GL on CarMax and getting the Car Max warranty would be the nicest long term option.

[Drew Dowdell]

Now that you're in Dad-of-Two mode, a Honda Pilot is probably the most fiscally responsible, if not the most exciting, choice. 

[ccap41]

20 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Those all seem really overpriced. If it's not an urgent need, I'd continue to wait and look. Keep in mind that in 2020, I bought a 7-year-old Avalanche with 12k miles for $32k. A 2017 Tahoe today is the same age as my Avalanche was then. 

 

What about an XC90? Used 2017 Volvo XC90 | Carvana

Or Ford Flex (people who have them, love them) Used 2018 Ford Flex | Carvana

Or you can stick with the ugly duckling theme - Used 2019 Lincoln MKT | Carvana

Even a Mercedes GL - https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/3244088

Finding a GL on CarMax and getting the Car Max warranty would be the nicest long term option.

Yes, those are all expensive but that's what most of the asking prices are on full size SUVs... That's why 18,700 really isn't that bad of a starting point, at least IMO. 

Considering budget is of the most important things here, none of those are even under 20k. 

Flexes aren't a bad idea. They're kind of along the lines of ugly and cool, actually. MKTs are just the worse looking vehicles made in the last 20 years. I hate those things so got damn much, Hahaha. 

19 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Now that you're in Dad-of-Two mode, a Honda Pilot is probably the most fiscally responsible, if not the most exciting, choice. 

What's exciting about a Pilot? Some n/a v6 with no torque? I'm sure it's a great overall vehicle.. It's just as boring as a Traverse or Explorer though. 

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yes, those are all expensive but that's what most of the asking prices are on full size SUVs... That's why 18,700 really isn't that bad of a starting point, at least IMO. 

Considering budget is of the most important things here, none of those are even under 20k. 

Flexes aren't a bad idea. They're kind of along the lines of ugly and cool, actually. MKTs are just the worse looking vehicles made in the last 20 years. I hate those things so got damn much, Hahaha. 

What's exciting about a Pilot? Some n/a v6 with no torque? I'm sure it's a great overall vehicle.. It's just as boring as a Traverse or Explorer though. 

What does the trade-in on the MKC look like? If I recall, it is completely paid off. The problem I foresee with something like a Navigator or Tahoe is that they can really trap you financially, especially at mileage that high. You're into a vehicle with those kind of miles, with poor fuel economy, for close to $20k out the door. If repairs don't get you, the fuel mileage will.  A Flex might only be rated for 23mpg highway, but it will actually hit it (and possibly beat it), the Navigator won't. Any out the door savings you might see getting that Navigator will get eaten up in the first 2 years at the gas pump even before you have to start putting money into repairs. 

Every 1,000 miles costs you $164 in fuel in a Pilot while costing $205 in the Navigator.

I didn't say the Pilot was exciting, but of all the 3-row crossovers, it's the least boring and has probably the best engine.  It will also start and run every day for the next 100 years or until the salt kills the body.  I'm just suggesting it is the most sensible vehicle while being the least worst of the crossovers. 

Here's a Pilot for just a grand more than the Navigator with a leather interior (easier to wipe up spills), with approximately two average driving years fewer miles. Used 2016 Honda Pilot | Carvana. You'd start saving the extra money after the first ~10 months of ownership.

I know it's not what you want to hear as a car enthusiast, but something like this is the most responsible option for a new dad of two, while the Honda V6 is probably the nicest you'll get in a crossover other than a Highlander. 

[ccap41]

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What does the trade-in on the MKC look like? If I recall, it is completely paid off. The problem I foresee with something like a Navigator or Tahoe is that they can really trap you financially, especially at mileage that high. You're into a vehicle with those kind of miles, with poor fuel economy, for close to $20k out the door. If repairs don't get you, the fuel mileage will.  A Flex might only be rated for 23mpg highway, but it will actually hit it (and possibly beat it), the Navigator won't. Any out the door savings you might see getting that Navigator will get eaten up in the first 2 years at the gas pump even before you have to start putting money into repairs. 

Yeah, I own my MKC. Trade is is something like 11-12k. It's also rated the same as the Pilot's 18/26 mpg. 

See, I don't think there are many major repairs unless the cam phasers or timing chain goes bad. I could be very wrong, but don't F150's run forever as long as they aren't neglected? 

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm just suggesting it is the most sensible vehicle while being the least worst of the crossovers. 

"Least worst" is terms I can understand with crossovers. That makes the most sense then. I just don't want something that I don't like at all and I feel like that's just most every crossover from "mainstream" brands. I've also been keeping an eye on Q7's with either the s/c V6 or turbo v6. 

12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Here's a Pilot for just a grand more than the Navigator with a leather interior (easier to wipe up spills), with approximately two average driving years fewer miles. Used 2016 Honda Pilot | Carvana. You'd start saving the extra money after the first ~10 months of ownership.

Somebody is already buying it, hahaha

13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I know it's not what you want to hear as a car enthusiast, but something like this is the most responsible option for a new dad of two, while the Honda V6 is probably the nicest you'll get in a crossover other than a Highlander. 

Yeah, I get it. I just know that if I'm not buying this, I am likely just not buying anything. I just don't want anything that...sucks... I'd rather wait and save and buy a Lightning. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I own my MKC. Trade is is something like 11-12k. It's also rated the same as the Pilot's 18/26 mpg. 

See, I don't think there are many major repairs unless the cam phasers or timing chain goes bad. I could be very wrong, but don't F150's run forever as long as they aren't neglected? 

Well, my mom is on her second or third transmission, but it's a few years older and probably triple the miles.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

"Least worst" is terms I can understand with crossovers. That makes the most sense then. I just don't want something that I don't like at all and I feel like that's just most every crossover from "mainstream" brands.

Although it's outside your current budget range, the prior-generation Explorer ST might be worth considering. A 17+ Durango RT (hemi-powered) too.

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I've also been keeping an eye on Q7's with either the s/c V6 or turbo v6. 

You are a mechanic's wet dream.  Only do that if you can get the CarMax full warranty. They are notorious for nickel and diming their owners.

 

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Somebody is already buying it, hahaha

See? It was a good buy!

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I get it. I just know that if I'm not buying this, I am likely just not buying anything. I just don't want anything that...sucks... I'd rather wait and save and buy a Lightning. 

It's really the best option right now. Plus, loan rates will probably drop again at least one more time this year. You still have the RR to haul things around in.

[trinacriabob]

I'm guessing it was highway miles.  And hopefully in Southern Illinois rather than Northern Illinois.  

Check to see if it's a non interference engine.  You should do that with any purchase.  This is about timing chains and such.  I don't know much about the 3.5 V6.  It's a heavy vehicle, so it will drink up. Isn't a VVT actuator an appendage that can be repaired plug and play?  How does C/R like this unit?

It has the space you'll need.  The dash modules are very squarish - FoMoCo.  The weirdest thing to me is the grille up front, with the curves, and that's about it.  But you seem to gravitate toward FoMoCo products.

Do people take dealership purchases to their own mechanics for a look over these days?

These aren't my type of vehicle but, within this genre, I like the GMC Acadia, but the reliability is hit-miss and seems to vary year by year!

So, this unit is already gone?  

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 While I think the Lincoln is not bad for what they have listed, the question I would ask is what is your monthly budget for car payment as the lots have plenty of steel on them and right now there are lots of options including leasing on some very nice options.

Compared to what I am paying, Kia EV9 start @ $299 a month for a 36 month lease with with them having over 300 miles of range, the EV9 is far nicer and more enjoyable to drive than the Lincoln or my SS was. Kia is also giving you the first 1000kW of charging at Electrify America so that is 10 charge ups if you do the full 100kW battery pack or if you always just do the 18 min to 80% it will do you well. Worth test driving and checking out as there are some great deals on the leasing of an EV.

Otherwise if the other person does not take the Lincoln, I would then consider it but be aware that premium fuel is what I would put in it, synthetic oil changes and things will start to need repairing.

I am seeing lots of discounts on buying too.

[surreal1272]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Flexes aren't a bad idea. They're kind of along the lines of ugly and cool, actually. MKTs are just the worse looking vehicles made in the last 20 years. I hate those things so got damn much, Hahaha. 

You know how I feel about the Flex and yes, the MKT "twin" is a just hideous lol.

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

if he's still out there... @oldshurst442

 

 

 

you called?

[oldshurst442]

I was reading and analysing your question and came up with an answer:

As you know, or maybe have forgotten, I prefer to buy new.  I could guess and assume your budget and needs with our long history together, (congrats on your first born and I have come to learn that a second one is on the way!!! HOORAY!!!)

And I have come to also learn that a fullsized SUV and that big of a price tag on a new OR used one is not on the menu for you, but you wouldnt want to pass up on a good deal...understandable, even thought this deal is kinda gone now...

I actually did come to an opnion for you, and its one that you came up for yourself actually...

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I'd rather wait and save and buy a Lightning. 

Id say...save and buy a Ligntning.

1. Its what you want...

2. It is going to be big enough for your family needs going forward whether you say it might be too big for your family. You will find uses for it.  

3. its what you want

4. its an EV and we have been down this road before, EVs are the future because it is what the governments of the world want.

5. the Lightning has all kinds of neat features for the house that only EVs  could give you. Like acting as a generator to power your home, etc...

 

Edited September 23 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

15 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I get it. I just know that if I'm not buying this, I am likely just not buying anything. I just don't want anything that...sucks... I'd rather wait and save and buy a Lightning. 

So, you pulled a "Me" with the impulse to get certain vehicle at a certain time and screw everything else lol. Then once it doesn't pan out, that's it. No more searching because the moment and impulse is gone. Have done that SO many times in my life. In all seriousness though, if nothing is "clicking" for you right now and your Lincoln is doing fine (while being paid off, most importantly), then I see no reason to pull the trigger on "maybe" cars. You'll know when the time is right to pull the trigger. Best of luck, either way.

[Drew Dowdell]

13 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I was reading and analysing your question and came up with an answer:

As you know, or maybe have forgotten, I prefer to buy new.  I could guess and assume your budget and needs with our long history together, (congrats on your first born and I have come to learn that a second one is on the way!!! HOORAY!!!)

And I have come to also learn that a fullsized SUV and that big of a price tag on a new OR used one is not on the menu for you, but you wouldnt want to pass up on a good deal...understandable, even thought this deal is kinda gone now...

I actually did come to an opnion for you, and its one that you came up for yourself actually...

Id say...save and buy a Ligntning.

1. Its what you want...

2. It is going to be big enough for your family needs going forward whether you say it might be too big for your family. You will find uses for it.  

3. its what you want

4. its an EV and we have been down this road before, EVs are the future because it is what the governments of the world want.

5. the Lightning has all kinds of neat features for the house that only EVs  could give you. Like acting as a generator to power your home, etc...

 

@ccap41Numbers 1 and 3 are the most important things. Unless you have an urgent need for a 3-row right now, just wait. Open a high-yield savings account and make your "car payment" to that each month, plus whatever you might have now as a down payment. 

AMEX is offering 4.25%
Poppy Bank is offering 5.5% - $1000 minimum balance
SmartyPig is offering 4.25% - this is SallieMae
And if you get the Apple Credit Card you can get a savings account through that that pays 4.5% and 2% of all of your purchases gets deposited directly into it as cash back. 

What I personally like to do is set up the auto transfers in such a way that they go weekly or bi-weekly, that way it's not as big a shock to your checking account.  Now, personally, I'd recommend leasing a Lightnining and not buying.  But the process is the same and when you set up your lease auto-pay, just have it withdraw from the same account you've been saving in.

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I was reading and analysing your question and came up with an answer:

As you know, or maybe have forgotten, I prefer to buy new.  I could guess and assume your budget and needs with our long history together, (congrats on your first born and I have come to learn that a second one is on the way!!! HOORAY!!!)

Thank you!

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

And I have come to also learn that a fullsized SUV and that big of a price tag on a new OR used one is not on the menu for you, but you wouldnt want to pass up on a good deal...understandable, even thought this deal is kinda gone now...

It isn't gone. The one that is gone is the Carmax or Carvana Honda Pilot Drew posted. 

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Id say...save and buy a Ligntning.

1. Its what you want...

2. It is going to be big enough for your family needs going forward whether you say it might be too big for your family. You will find uses for it.  

3. its what you want

4. its an EV and we have been down this road before, EVs are the future because it is what the governments of the world want.

5. the Lightning has all kinds of neat features for the house that only EVs  could give you. Like acting as a generator to power your home, etc...

Yeah, I just have a feeling that won't happen for quite a few years. Unless I get a pretty big pay raise, I couldn't justify a 60k truck. Even if I were to save up, say 30k with trade in of my Lincoln, I couldn't just drop 30k and still borrow 30k for such a depreciating asset. 

[ccap41]

16 hours ago, G. David Felt said:

@ccap41 While I think the Lincoln is not bad for what they have listed, the question I would ask is what is your monthly budget for car payment as the lots have plenty of steel on them and right now there are lots of options including leasing on some very nice options.

Compared to what I am paying, Kia EV9 start @ $299 a month for a 36 month lease with with them having over 300 miles of range, the EV9 is far nicer and more enjoyable to drive than the Lincoln or my SS was. Kia is also giving you the first 1000kW of charging at Electrify America so that is 10 charge ups if you do the full 100kW battery pack or if you always just do the 18 min to 80% it will do you well. Worth test driving and checking out as there are some great deals on the leasing of an EV.

Otherwise if the other person does not take the Lincoln, I would then consider it but be aware that premium fuel is what I would put in it, synthetic oil changes and things will start to need repairing.

I am seeing lots of discounts on buying too.

$299 with very low operating costs would be great but I am not seeing $299 for an EV9. $300 and less for a payment is where I would be comfortable right now. My MKC was $252/mo. I know that's very little for a vehicle, hence why I'm not really shopping new or anything expensive, at all. 

I guess the base model RWD is under $300. The Light RWD Long range is, as well. I'm just not sure how I feel about RWD with our occasional shty winters.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

$299 with very low operating costs would be great but I am not seeing $299 for an EV9. $300 and less for a payment is where I would be comfortable right now. My MKC was $252/mo. I know that's very little for a vehicle, hence why I'm not really shopping new or anything expensive, at all. 

I guess the base model RWD is under $300. The Light RWD Long range is, as well. I'm just not sure how I feel about RWD with our occasional shty winters.

Do both you and your wife commute daily?

[ccap41]

26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Do both you and your wife commute daily?

Her drive is 3 miles to the salon and mine is 1 mile to the bus stop. But, she drives to her parents' store a couple days a week that's about 25 miles away. Leaving our town to go anywhere with a Home Depot, Target, Petco, etc. is 20 miles one way or 30 miles in another way(the way towards her parents' store). so that's really where the bulk of our miles come from, because our drives to work are next to nothing. I guess I should also add that our daughter's doctor is near my in-law's store, as they watch her most days mon-fri anyway. 

I thought I averaged right at 12k miles/yr, but the maths must have changed over the last couple years. I've owned my MKC for right at 5.5 years and I've put 53,262 miles on it in that time. 9684 miles/yr over the last 5.5 years. I could have sworn I was driving 12k/yr when I had my Escape and Focus and just assumed it hadn't changed. 

FWIW, this is the Expedition that also caught my eye. 1 owner and oil changes every 5k, almost spot on. 

This is 5 hours away though.

https://www.hamblockford.com/used/Ford/2017-Ford-Expedition-acb17645ac18587ccec3bbd514061849.htm

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Her drive is 3 miles to the salon and mine is 1 mile to the bus stop. But, she drives to her parents' store a couple days a week that's about 25 miles away. Leaving our town to go anywhere with a Home Depot, Target, Petco, etc. is 20 miles one way or 30 miles in another way(the way towards her parents' store). so that's really where the bulk of our miles come from, because our drives to work are next to nothing. I guess I should also add that our daughter's doctor is near my in-law's store, as they watch her most days mon-fri anyway. 

I thought I averaged right at 12k miles/yr, but the maths must have changed over the last couple years. I've owned my MKC for right at 5.5 years and I've put 53,262 miles on it in that time. 9684 miles/yr over the last 5.5 years. I could have sworn I was driving 12k/yr when I had my Escape and Focus and just assumed it hadn't changed. 

It was more about how much 4WD was really needed in the crappy weather. i.e., do you both need AWD, or is just one vehicle with it sufficient?  Would a decent set of snow tires be enough?  Remember that EVs have a different weight distribution, so RWD isn't as much of a negative for them; any vehicle with a 50/50 weight balance is decent in the snow with good tires.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It was more about how much 4WD was really needed in the crappy weather. i.e., do you both need AWD, or is just one vehicle with it sufficient?  Would a decent set of snow tires be enough?  Remember that EVs have a different weight distribution, so RWD isn't as much of a negative for them; any vehicle with a 50/50 weight balance is decent in the snow with good tires.

I don't think I would have an issue with it. We really don't get much crappy winter weather, but when we do, it's really crappy. I don't think I'd mind the RWD with them being heavy, low center of gravity, and even weight distribution. Decent snow tires would be sufficient but, I'd rather just not spend the $1000-1500 on tires/tires & wheels. Being realistic, I'd just rock the all-seasons/no-seasons if this were something I'd buy. 

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It isn't gone. The one that is gone is the Carmax or Carvana Honda Pilot Drew posted. 

ahhh...

Been gone from the interwebs and forum talking for sometime that Im rusty (in reading comprension). 

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, I just have a feeling that won't happen for quite a few years. Unless I get a pretty big pay raise, I couldn't justify a 60k truck. Even if I were to save up, say 30k with trade in of my Lincoln, I couldn't just drop 30k and still borrow 30k for such a depreciating asset. 

And it shouldnt happen for quite awhile either.  What @Drew Dowdell is suggesting is a great idea to save money for a down payment and monthly payments:

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

What I personally like to do is set up the auto transfers in such a way that they go weekly or bi-weekly, that way it's not as big a shock to your checking account.  Now, personally, I'd recommend leasing a Lightnining and not buying.  But the process is the same and when you set up your lease auto-pay, just have it withdraw from the same account you've been saving in.

 

 

 

But since your current cars are in pretty good order and safe for the family to use without endangering them then Id hold off any car purchases for the near future (and in hoping for a as long as far future possible)  unless the cars you have now need absolute replacement.  

You said it...DEPRECIATING assets.  And in a high inflationary world we both are living in, there is NO need to indulge in wants. Just for in needs.  

Save your money for a rainy day.

Anectdote: 

Just about a month ago give or take a week, Montreal experienced high rain fall. Torrential rains. All in 1 day.  But it caused many many floods.  Peoples houses were flooded and insurances were reluctant to pay out.  They paid out $20 000 CDN to most claims. Folks that had more coverage did not get paid because insurances didnt want to pay them.  They wanted to cap EVERYBODY at $20 000.  Problem is, with high prices for everything such as building materials, replacement hardwares such as cabinets and TVs and tables and chairs and sofas and contractor labourers etc are sky high (inflation), the damages done to houses in 85% of cases EXCEEDED $80 000 CDN...   Many horror stories on the news and the people I work with.  Shyte out of luck...  So...Im pretty sure that a not necessar expensive EV pick-up truck or  Lincoln Navigator could wait.  When its time to buy a vehicle because it would be necessary to change out any of the cars you use now, then you assess what it is you want and prefer vis-a-vis with what you are comfortable in parting with your money. 

Anecdote #2:

Last year at this time, we bought my wife a 2024 brand new base Civic.  Somebody rammed the rear passenger door of the Acura.  So I was driving the Fusion. Until the elctric steering went out in it in January and I wasnt going to spend $5000 CDN reparing it.  So we bought an Accord.  The Accord was also new, but a 2023 model.  The 2025s are out now.  Go figure that I buy a car 4 months after my wife in Sept 2023 and she gets a 2024 model and in January of 2024 I get a 2023 model.  Just to say that you,we, any of us,  shouldnt be spending money on a whim.  

I just got rid of the 2009 Mazda 3 today actually.  Sold it to the scrap yard for 300 bucks.  Too rusted out for my daughter to continue driving it. 

Edited September 24 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think I would have an issue with it. We really don't get much crappy winter weather, but when we do, it's really crappy. I don't think I'd mind the RWD with them being heavy, low center of gravity, and even weight distribution. Decent snow tires would be sufficient but, I'd rather just not spend the $1000-1500 on tires/tires & wheels. Being realistic, I'd just rock the all-seasons/no-seasons if this were something I'd buy. 

So the tires on my EV9 are rated at 50,000 miles and I have not noticed really any wear in the almost 9000 miles we have driven so far. Both the AWD and the RWD have snow mode which was tested in Norway by Kia where they developed it so I will know more as I use it to go skiing this year, but reviews have been solid about those with RWD in Snow having no problem getting around.

Yes this is on an AWD, but I see plenty of reviews you can read about the RWD.
 

One thing this guy points out is that the EV9 has all the physical buttons that so many of us have pointed out for basic use stuff.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a61108648/2024-kia-ev9-land-awd-reliability-maintenance/

Reviews for the All Season Tires on the EV9 seem to be very solid. Kumho Crugen EV HP71 Listed as #10 on the list.
https://www.bestproductsreviews.com/kumho-tires?targetid=dat-2336599648382060:loc-190&matchtype=b&device=c&campaignid=424505904&creative=&adgroupid=1356798789474024&feeditemid=&loc_physical_ms=109642&loc_interest_ms=&network=o&devicemodel=&placement=&keyword=$ALL&target=&aceid={aceid}&adposition=&trackid=us_all_top_1_1&mId=407-132-4411&trackOld=true&msclkid=c08099c18ca914a0792dff32ea83ff1d

[Drew Dowdell]

20 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think I would have an issue with it. We really don't get much crappy winter weather, but when we do, it's really crappy. I don't think I'd mind the RWD with them being heavy, low center of gravity, and even weight distribution. Decent snow tires would be sufficient but, I'd rather just not spend the $1000-1500 on tires/tires & wheels. Being realistic, I'd just rock the all-seasons/no-seasons if this were something I'd buy. 

All seasons until you burn the first set off then a set of Michelin CrossClimates

[smk4565]

On 9/24/2024 at 12:20 PM, ccap41 said:

Her drive is 3 miles to the salon and mine is 1 mile to the bus stop. But, she drives to her parents' store a couple days a week that's about 25 miles away. Leaving our town to go anywhere with a Home Depot, Target, Petco, etc. is 20 miles one way or 30 miles in another way(the way towards her parents' store). so that's really where the bulk of our miles come from, because our drives to work are next to nothing. I guess I should also add that our daughter's doctor is near my in-law's store, as they watch her most days mon-fri anyway. 

I thought I averaged right at 12k miles/yr, but the maths must have changed over the last couple years. I've owned my MKC for right at 5.5 years and I've put 53,262 miles on it in that time. 9684 miles/yr over the last 5.5 years. I could have sworn I was driving 12k/yr when I had my Escape and Focus and just assumed it hadn't changed. 

FWIW, this is the Expedition that also caught my eye. 1 owner and oil changes every 5k, almost spot on. 

This is 5 hours away though.

https://www.hamblockford.com/used/Ford/2017-Ford-Expedition-acb17645ac18587ccec3bbd514061849.htm

I think the Navigator and Expedition both look pretty clean for the model year.   I don't know too much about the reliability of them, but Fords tend to pretty reasonable from a routine maintenance standpoint.  And if you need a body on frame SUV those are a good price, because I searched for Yukon's, Sequoia/Land Cruiser and Escalade within a few hundred miles of IL and there are basically none newer than 2015 under $20k.  And most of the Tahoes available are 2WD or look like a former police or fleet vehicle, and there are a few 2015-16 with 100k miles around $18-19k.  The GM pushrod V8s seem to run a long time so that's a plus.

I think the Navigator is a pretty good buy actually for the price.  but the terrible fuel economy needs factored in too, the running costs will be higher on that than probably just about anything else.

Edited September 26 by smk4565

[smk4565]

If you don't need a body on frame SUV, I am sure you can get cheaper SUV's and the Pilot and Highlander though boring will be reliable and they have cheap parts cost.

I just saw a news story about a police department wanting to dump all their Durangos because they are so unreliable and break down all the time and replace them with Explorers that they wanted but couldn't get during covid.  The cops seem to do well with the Explorer so they must be pretty reliable.

I wouldn't buy any Stellantis product, they are all unreliable trash.  There is a Stellantis dealer near me selling Compasses for $10k off, Hornets for $12k off, Grand Cherokees for as mush as $20k off, Ram trucks are $9k off, etc.  And I work with one of their body shops and I was told they sold about 120 cars a month before the pandemic and sold 34 in July.  Awful product, no discount is big enough to buy anything from them because maintenance and depreciation will eat you alive.

And Kia/Hyundai with the 2.0 or 2.4 cylinder engines burn oil and grenade themselves, the 3.8 V6 vehicles are probably fine.  But any Kia/Hyundai without the push button starter is a theft target, I see thefts or attempted thefts on them all the time.  And Tellurides always have pars shortages if you are ever in an accident and need parts for it. 

[smk4565]

Can get a 2018 GLS450 for under $20k.

2018 GLS 450

 

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Can get a 2018 GLS450 for under $20k.

2018 GLS 450

 

I'm not really considering a high mileage German-anything. The only vehicles I'd consider with this many miles are the American trucks and their corresponding full-size SUVs. They're the only ones consistently known to achieve 200k miles with relatively minimal maintenance. 

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If you don't need a body on frame SUV, I am sure you can get cheaper SUV's and the Pilot and Highlander though boring will be reliable and they have cheap parts cost.

I just saw a news story about a police department wanting to dump all their Durangos because they are so unreliable and break down all the time and replace them with Explorers that they wanted but couldn't get during covid.  The cops seem to do well with the Explorer so they must be pretty reliable.

I wouldn't buy any Stellantis product, they are all unreliable trash.  There is a Stellantis dealer near me selling Compasses for $10k off, Hornets for $12k off, Grand Cherokees for as mush as $20k off, Ram trucks are $9k off, etc.  And I work with one of their body shops and I was told they sold about 120 cars a month before the pandemic and sold 34 in July.  Awful product, no discount is big enough to buy anything from them because maintenance and depreciation will eat you alive.

And Kia/Hyundai with the 2.0 or 2.4 cylinder engines burn oil and grenade themselves, the 3.8 V6 vehicles are probably fine.  But any Kia/Hyundai without the push button starter is a theft target, I see thefts or attempted thefts on them all the time.  And Tellurides always have pars shortages if you are ever in an accident and need parts for it. 

No, I'm really not stuck on a BOF SUV. I just hate most all of the CUVs that are 3-rows like the Traverses and Highlanders of the world. They do so little for me, I'd rather have my too-small-for-family MKC than spend money on them. 

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think the Navigator and Expedition both look pretty clean for the model year.   I don't know too much about the reliability of them, but Fords tend to pretty reasonable from a routine maintenance standpoint.  And if you need a body on frame SUV those are a good price, because I searched for Yukon's, Sequoia/Land Cruiser and Escalade within a few hundred miles of IL and there are basically none newer than 2015 under $20k.  And most of the Tahoes available are 2WD or look like a former police or fleet vehicle, and there are a few 2015-16 with 100k miles around $18-19k.  The GM pushrod V8s seem to run a long time so that's a plus.

I think the Navigator is a pretty good buy actually for the price.  but the terrible fuel economy needs factored in too, the running costs will be higher on that than probably just about anything else.

This is exactly my thoughts. It isn't so much that I need something this large, but that it fits what I need/want but it's also just a damn good price. I can't find anything remotely comparable that has this service records, NOT in an accident, or even this "low" of miles. 

I think that's working for me with this specific vehicle is the location. It's in a town much smaller than my own, further away from St Louis. Their market of consumers is smaller and probably just need to move it. 

I understand the fuel economy costs, but If I could afford something with significantly improved fuel economy, it'll cost a heck of a lot more in price alone, negating some 5mpg improvement. 

I think I'm going to talk to them Saturday and see what can be done price-wise. I think 19k is more than I'd be comfortable with with this many miles, but If they want to move it bad enough (on the last weekend of the month AND quarter) and would accept 17-17,5 I think I'd buy it. 

 

[smk4565]

Sounds like the Lincoln will work.  I think the price is quite fair, it looks in pretty good shape.

[A Horse With No Name]

On 9/23/2024 at 2:55 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Now that you're in Dad-of-Two mode, a Honda Pilot is probably the most fiscally responsible, if not the most exciting, choice. 

I kind of second this. 

23 hours ago, ccap41 said:

This is exactly my thoughts. It isn't so much that I need something this large, but that it fits what I need/want but it's also just a damn good price. I can't find anything remotely comparable that has this service records, NOT in an accident, or even this "low" of miles. 

I think that's working for me with this specific vehicle is the location. It's in a town much smaller than my own, further away from St Louis. Their market of consumers is smaller and probably just need to move it. 

I understand the fuel economy costs, but If I could afford something with significantly improved fuel economy, it'll cost a heck of a lot more in price alone, negating some 5mpg improvement. 

I think I'm going to talk to them Saturday and see what can be done price-wise. I think 19k is more than I'd be comfortable with with this many miles, but If they want to move it bad enough (on the last weekend of the month AND quarter) and would accept 17-17,5 I think I'd buy it. 

 

Good luck. My Ranger has hit 95 K miles, I do a lot of driving. So far it ahs been fairly bullet proof. Other than some idiot woman trying to drive a Chrysler 300 through the tailgate, no issues at all to speak of. 

On 9/25/2024 at 10:17 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

All seasons until you burn the first set off then a set of Michelin CrossClimates

Again, yes. 

Adding, FWIW I have been looking at low mile Lincoln CPI stuff to possibly buy when the Ranger is paid off in a few months. Our other car is 20 years old, ready for a newer second car. 

[ccap41]

So my wife and I went and drove it Saturday. It has a blown out driver front shock. I went under and looked at it after driving and heading a clunk/rattle sound coming from the driver's front end. you could see the shock coated in grease/grim and I looked at the passenger side to compare, and it was clean and dry. I brought it up to them and he's going to take that information to his GM and see what they can do or if they'll do anything. I stated that alone is a deal breaker. I will not buy something needing fairly basic maintenance to get to to just drive as it should. I know it's used but I'm not buying a project from an individual. It should at least drive the way it is supposed to. I'd be more understandable if interior things didn't work or whatnot, but not the suspension/driveline. 

On the positive side though, the inside was as clean as the outside. It honestly looked near-new. There weren't scratches or scuffs where elbows, fingers, or rings may routinely encounter. Everything other than that front shock seemed to operate just as they should. 

He's supposed to get back to me today and we will go from there. 

[G. David Felt]

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So my wife and I went and drove it Saturday. It has a blown out driver front shock. I went under and looked at it after driving and heading a clunk/rattle sound coming from the driver's front end. you could see the shock coated in grease/grim and I looked at the passenger side to compare, and it was clean and dry. I brought it up to them and he's going to take that information to his GM and see what they can do or if they'll do anything. I stated that alone is a deal breaker. I will not buy something needing fairly basic maintenance to get to to just drive as it should. I know it's used but I'm not buying a project from an individual. It should at least drive the way it is supposed to. I'd be more understandable if interior things didn't work or whatnot, but not the suspension/driveline. 

On the positive side though, the inside was as clean as the outside. It honestly looked near-new. There weren't scratches or scuffs where elbows, fingers, or rings may routinely encounter. Everything other than that front shock seemed to operate just as they should. 

He's supposed to get back to me today and we will go from there. 

I agree, do not buy it when it already needs new shocks and not just the one, replace them all. Have them check the alignment and ball joints, if it has been driven on a bad blown out shock, there could be other suspension issues. Just be cautious. 

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, G. David Felt said:

I agree, do not buy it when it already needs new shocks and not just the one, replace them all. Have them check the alignment and ball joints, if it has been driven on a bad blown out shock, there could be other suspension issues. Just be cautious. 

Absolutely agree. If one thing is worn out, it's stressing everything else out, too. 

The CarFax said this dealership has already replaced both front wheel bearings (along with the front brake rotors and pads), FWIW. 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Absolutely agree. If one thing is worn out, it's stressing everything else out, too. 

The CarFax said this dealership has already replaced both front wheel bearings (along with the front brake rotors and pads), FWIW. 

Maybe time to rethink this. Have you looked at the lease cost on an F150 Lighting? Ford is now paying to also include besides the GOV rebates, a level 2 hardwired charger at home.

Ford Power Promise Gives Electric Vehicle Customers New Confidence | Ford Media Center

Going to write up a quick story on this now.

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, G. David Felt said:

Maybe time to rethink this. Have you looked at the lease cost on an F150 Lighting? Ford is now paying to also include besides the GOV rebates, a level 2 hardwired charger at home.

Ford Power Promise Gives Electric Vehicle Customers New Confidence | Ford Media Center

Going to write up a quick story on this now.

I did see that already, actually. It may be worth stopping at my local Ford dealership and seeing what the numbers are like. I'm sure they will be more than I am comfortable with, but it wouldn't hurt to talk to somebody. 

Their current Lightning XLT lease is $335/mo. I'm not sure how I feel about the small battery though, but the 2024's do have a heat pump so it makes me feel better about the winter. 

If this is the new lease deal, $550 is out of the question.