Ford News: Next Ford Super Duty will likely offer hybrid power

[Drew Dowdell]

Ford Super Duty production will expand to a third plant in Ford's Oakville Assembly Complex in Ontario, Canada, starting in 2026.  Ford is investing $3 billion to make the complex into a fully flexible plant capable of producing traditional ICE vehicles, hybrids, and EVs. The expansion will allow an initial additional production capacity of 100,000 units of Super Duty when brought online. That increased production will cascade to other plants in the Ford ecosystem, including Windsor, Ontario for V8 production, Sharonville, Ohio for transmissions, Rawsonville, Michigan for components, and Sterling Axle Plant in Michigan. 

By building the Super Duty at the updated fully flexible plant, Ford says they will be able to introduce multi-energy technology to the lineup, offering customers more choice for their Super Duty power. Ford says they will also build a new, yet unnamed, three-row fully electric crossover here, alongside the Super Duty. 

The opening of the updated Oakville Assembly Complex in 2026 comes a full year ahead of initial plans.

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[smk4565]

That V8 won't last long, the Super Duty will go V6 hybrid and they'll probably make the hybrid system standard, plug-in hybrid optional as a way to raise MSRP and make more money. 

[Drew Dowdell]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

That V8 won't last long, the Super Duty will go V6 hybrid and they'll probably make the hybrid system standard, plug-in hybrid optional as a way to raise MSRP and make more money. 

It'll last at least through the end of the next generation. Trucks in this class are not held to the same emissions and efficiency standards. But this new plant is just one of three that will be producing Super Duties; the others aren't yet set up for hybrid production. I expect any hybrid-powered Super Duties will be a small sliver of production for a while. 

[smk4565]

10 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It'll last at least through the end of the next generation. Trucks in this class are not held to the same emissions and efficiency standards. But this new plant is just one of three that will be producing Super Duties; the others aren't yet set up for hybrid production. I expect any hybrid-powered Super Duties will be a small sliver of production for a while. 

Diesel V8 will continue, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford doesn't have a gas V8 by 2030 because the Mustang coupe will probably be dead by then since it is their worst seller, and they won't justify R&D on it (unless they joint develop it with Toyota or Nissan or someone) and the F150 will be V6 only.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Diesel V8 will continue, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford doesn't have a gas V8 by 2030 because the Mustang coupe will probably be dead by then since it is their worst seller, and they won't justify R&D on it (unless they joint develop it with Toyota or Nissan or someone) and the F150 will be V6 only.

They will absolutely have a gasoline V8 in the Super Duties in 2030. They're both brand new like a year or two ago. They could leave them untouched, in this segment, and ride them out until 2035, easily. The old 6.2 was built for the SDs until 2022, when it was replaced by the 6.8 pushrod v8, which was in addition to the 7.3. 

The V8's in the Super Duty are not based off the 5.0. They're both pushrod V8's, 6.8L & 7.3L. The SDs are the only application for this pair of engines. 

Edited July 23 by ccap41

[smk4565]

10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They will absolutely have a gasoline V8 in the Super Duties in 2030. They're both brand new like a year or two ago. They could leave them untouched, in this segment, and ride them out until 2035, easily. The old 6.2 was built for the SDs until 2022, when it was replaced by the 6.8 pushrod v8, which was in addition to the 7.3. 

The V8's in the Super Duty are not based off the 5.0. They're both pushrod V8's, 6.8L & 7.3L. The SDs are the only application for this pair of engines. 

Perhaps the Godzilla engines will last that long, but it will depend on what rivals come out with also, that engine may not be competitive in 5 years.  But I could see 10 more years of gas V8s in the Super Duty's, they'll be long gone in an F150, the 2025 Ram has no V8, the Silverado probably won't in 5 years, they are already pushing the 4-cylinder Silverado.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Perhaps the Godzilla engines will last that long, but it will depend on what rivals come out with also, that engine may not be competitive in 5 years.  But I could see 10 more years of gas V8s in the Super Duty's, they'll be long gone in an F150, the 2025 Ram has no V8, the Silverado probably won't in 5 years, they are already pushing the 4-cylinder Silverado.

This post is about Super Dutys. They will have gasoline V8's in these for a while yet. I genuinely cannot see there not being a gasoline SD/HD in only 10 years from now. 

It will be competitive in 10 years. The low strung, workhorse engines, from all three of these companies, don't go out of style in 10 years. They keep them around for a while.  The 6.2 that was previously in the SD had a 13-year run. I'm sure the Ram 6.4 has probably already been around for 20 years with minor revisions. I believe GM just recently released an all-new 6.6 gasser in the past 2 years. 

GM doesn't have a replacement for their V8s in the 1500's yet. Obviously, Ford and Ram already have engines that outperform their V8s, but GM doesn't. The 2.7 is a good engine, but it's not a V8 replacement. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

GM doesn't have a replacement for their V8s in the 1500's yet. Obviously, Ford and Ram already have engines that outperform their V8s, but GM doesn't. The 2.7 is a good engine, but it's not a V8 replacement. 

The 2.7 is a 5.3 replacement, you can't just look at the horsepower numbers.  It has the horsepower of the pre-direct-injection 5.3 (310 hp) and much more torque, approaching that of the 6.2 (2.7 430 lb-ft v. 5.3 383 lb-ft v. 6.2 460lb-ft) at a significantly lower rpm (3000 rpm v 4100 rpm).  And in all instances, it out torques the Ford 2.7.  Swapping out my 5.3 for a 2.7T would be a power upgrade with nearly 100 additional ft-lb of torque, plus the advantage of two more gears in the box. To most people, the 2.7 will feel more energetic, though the fact that the 5.3 comes with the 10-speed while the 2.7T only gets the 8-speed will negate that a bit.  The only time the 5.3 has an advantage is if you're racing these.

Remember, the horsepower number is calculated based on how fast you spin the engine and what torque you get at that speed. High RPMs are not desirable in most trucks, thus they aim for a higher torque number at a lower RPM which makes the peak horsepower lower.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

GM doesn't have a replacement for their V8s in the 1500's yet. Obviously, Ford and Ram already have engines that outperform their V8s, but GM doesn't. The 2.7 is a good engine, but it's not a V8 replacement. 

You sent me down a calculator rabbit hole on this one.

Givens:
5.3 Peak Torque = 383 lb-ft 4100 rpm
5.3 Peak HP = 355 hp 5600 rpm

2.7T Peak Torque = 420 lb-ft 3000 rpm
2.7T Peak HP = 310 hp 5600 rpm

We can clearly see that the 5.3 has more horsepower than the 2.7T at the same peak RPM. But when you start calculating horsepower at the respective torque peaks, things get a little interesting.

At the 5.3's torque peak, it is generating 298 horsepower. But at the RPM torque peak of the 2.7T (3,000), it is generating, at most, 218 horsepower. However, that number is going to be lower since naturally aspirated engines produce torque at a steady climb. So at 3000 rpm, it's more likely going to be producing around 360 lb-ft, which means the horsepower is only 205 at 3000 rpm.

Meanwhile, the 2.7T generating 420 lb-ft at 3,000 rpm produces 239 horsepower at the same RPM the 5.3 is making 205. 

The torque curve of the 2.7T is very flat. While the peak is at 3,000, the slope on either side is so gentle that it would better be expressed as a range from ~1500 - ~4000 rpm.  That translates to a lot more torque over a broad RPM range than the 5.3 can provide, even at peak. 

I haven't gotten to drive a Canyon with this engine yet, but looking into this has made me curious and I think I might take a test drive.

Also, it looks like GM has quietly made nearly all versions of its trucks get the H.O. version of this engine, with only the base small trucks getting the lesser-powered version. When it originally came out, it was rated for 310hp / 348 lb-ft, basically the same spec as my 2013 5.3.