Cursing and other NWS posts being tolerated

[91z4me]

Since the site re-launched under Josh there has been no curse filter on the site. That is ok sometimes but come on guys if we want to attract new members we are going to have to act like adults. Case in point:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...st=0&p=156631

to quote:

Are you an ass pick?

That is not office talk. It is certainly not profesional and would likely make people think less of you in the real world. Most of the forums I frequent, CZ28 and even GMI, keep this to a minimum. Partly because they have curse filtering, which I know people can get around using symbols, and partly because the mods just don't stand for it. I think if C&G wants to really be taken seriously by GM and members of the GM Enthusiest community we need to quit the cussing and start acting a little more adult.

The above is my personal opinion and is not an attack on anyone at all.

[FAPTurbo]

Sometimes I gotta use the word ass, as in pain in the ass. I'll also do my best to avoid using Sh!t. Sometimes there is no better word to use. I was never one to beat around the bush, so sometimes I do have to curse just to get my point across.

However IMO, I don't think the F-Bomb or worse should be tolerated. I don't advocate banning, but a mod should step in.

Plus, there's always the emoticon...

[VenSeattle]

I was actually looking at our filter settings earlier today. We'll see if we can agree on some standard filtering to help maintain a certain level of professionalism.

[Cory Wolfe]

Um yeah... this is why I am a part of C&G and not GMI. C&G is much more open and realistic.... and makes for a more tight knit community. Censoring and such is just limiting people's ability to fully express themselves. It makes for boring conversations. This is all a part of C&G's appeal, if you ask me... NWS? If you work in a daycare center...

[Croc]

Why is this being discussed? We should have better things to do than police and NetNanny our fellow members. Also, here's a thought: since C&G is a very community-oriented site, why should we worry about NWS stuff? Now, I definitely think threads or posts should have NWS disclaimers, but most of that stuff is in the Lounge anywayss...and if you're at work you really shouldn't be dicking around in the C&G Lounge. Honestly, unless your monitor also projects up onto the office projector screen for everyone to see, no one else should really be seeing this stuff.

I don't think filters are necessary and I don't see anyone cursing much...also "ass" is not a curse word. It might have vulgar connotations, but so do many slang phrases that use perfectly acceptable words otherwise...as far as I'm concerned, BV loves donkeys and Satty mentions pink tacos as part of some promo gimmick by a local place for breast cancer awareness month. Hey, if Einstein Bros does it to their bagels, Taco Cabana Hut can do it for their greasy tacos.

[Satty]

Hmmmm....pink tacos

[Nick]

f@#k all that goddamn cencorship bull$h!...

Oh yea, and one more thing...

ASS

[91z4me]

I post from the library at school, I am here now before class, and I don't want to try to get on C&G one day and I can't because IT has put up a filter and calls it vulgar. But hey if you guys just want to cuss a lot and act like 13 year olds when mommy isn't around that is up to you but I for one don't cuss a lot. I find that I can express myself, most of the time, without resorting to that level of word usage. If you guys need to curse to express yourself then you need to expand your vocabulary.

Ven thanks for being a voice of reason.

[Drew Dowdell]

Um yeah... this is why I am a part of C&G and not GMI. C&G is much more open and realistic.... and makes for a more tight knit community. Censoring and such is just limiting people's ability to fully express themselves. It makes for boring conversations. This is all a part of C&G's appeal, if you ask me... NWS? If you work in a daycare center...

truth

[Flybrian]

I think a reasonable 'compromise' would be to exercise greater restraint in choice of language in the non-Lounge topics. As Lounge is a membership privilege, it can be reasoned it has a less official nature and therefore can be more relaxed and liberal.

Thoughts from all? And I'd like to hear from anyone who has an opinion on this matter...

[Drew Dowdell]

f@#k all that goddamn cencorship bull$h!...

Oh yea, and one more thing...

ASS

Barbara Streisand

[Drew Dowdell]

I think a reasonable 'compromise' would be to exercise greater restraint in choice of language in the non-Lounge topics. As Lounge is a membership privilege, it can be reasoned it has a less official nature and therefore can be more relaxed and liberal.

Thoughts from all?

As far as language, I don't have an issue with it. No one can see text on the screen unless they're specifically focusing on it. They're certainly not going to pick up on random curse words in our posts... unless of course they're set to largest, bold, and red.

pictures and sigs on the otherhand.... I forget who it it, but any posts with 15 anime chicks with bouncing chevy boobies, I have to scroll off the screen when I'm at work.

I'd be content with a NWS in the titles of threads with pictures....

[91z4me]

I think a reasonable 'compromise' would be to exercise greater restraint in choice of language in the non-Lounge topics. As Lounge is a membership privilege, it can be reasoned it has a less official nature and therefore can be more relaxed and liberal.

Thoughts from all? And I'd like to hear from anyone who has an opinion on this matter...

Agreed on the language but I still would like to think that C&G can conduct itself a little more adult than to insult someone because you've proventhem wrong or disagreed with their opinion. THAT is my major concern. Many members are not behaving like adults.

[Flybrian]

Agreed on the language but I still would like to think that C&G can conduct itself a little more adult than to insult someone because you've proventhem wrong or disagreed with their opinion.  THAT is my major concern.  Many members are not behaving like adults.

This is a different concern and one I do agree with. The language may or may not be a byproduct of that attitude, but the attitude exists nonetheless.

I have noticed alot of oneupsmanship lately around here that's not desireable. I'm not referring to someone saying, "Ha! Told you so!" in a jesting manner, but something a bit more caustic.

If you have specific incidents you (or anyone) feel like reporting, please feel free to.

And to all, keep in mind that we have to walk a thin line between freedom and control and when you're dealing with individual statements that may/may not contain a certain attitude, you're looking at it over the internet and its hard to determine. Let's again all realize that words have a different impact when written as opposed to being spoken and keep that in mind when we respond to each other.

Remember, we're all here for fun.

[Croc]

I post from the library at school, I am here now before class, and I don't want to try to get on C&G one day and I can't because IT has put up a filter and calls it vulgar.  But hey if you guys just want to cuss a lot and act like 13 year olds when mommy isn't around that is up to you but I for one don't cuss a lot.  I find that I can express myself, most of the time, without resorting to that level of word usage.  If you guys need to curse to express yourself then you need to expand your vocabulary.

Ven thanks for being a voice of reason.

Ah, the moral superiority of not cursing...

So here are the problems I have with your post:

1. You equate cursing to acting like a 13 y/o. Not cool. Not only is this just completely wrong on many levels, but a couple years ago one of the prominent ettiquette authorities reversed their prior position on cursing by saying that when used judiciously, those words are necessary for conveying strong emotions from time to time.

2. The overwhelming moral superiority of your post. If you don't curse, fine. But are on a crusade to change everyone else's behavior?

3. Schools block plenty of sites for the most arcane reasons. I remember Nintendo.com being blocked at my middle school. Why? Because it was not appropriate to be accessing that site in a learning environment as it had no educational or research value.

4. You assume that anyone who disagrees with you curses a lot. I for one don't...

5. School is not the optimal place to dick around on the net. I bet your administrators would be apathetic to complaints of C&G getting blocked.

[Croc]

Remember, we're all here for fun.

[Flybrian]

Croc, this topic is not about school censorship or the morality of cursing. Please keep that for some other discussion.

Since its been brought up, I'm looking for real feedback from as many members as possible on what (if any) filtering we should have, and where it should be done.

[91z4me]

Ah, the moral superiority of not cursing...

Ahh Croc we normally agree on most topics but there was bound to be some disagreement of our opinions. I think you took my post in the wrong manner.

So here are the problems I have with your post:

1. You equate cursing to acting like a 13 y/o.  Not cool.  Not only is this just completely wrong on many levels, but a couple years ago one of the prominent ettiquette authorities reversed their prior position on cursing by saying that when used judiciously, those words are necessary for conveying strong emotions from time to time.

Actually my post is true in that when we are young, immature and trying to assert our individuality (around the age of 13) we begin to cuss when adults are around to make ourselves feel more adult. That is why I used that age. Also cursing occurs in probably 70% of the threads of this board, and I don't just mean the lounge. In any professional office, work enviroment you will NOT hear curse words being thrown around this often. It just ain't happening. It is NOT professional and like it or not C&G should project a certain level of professionalism. If not it comes off looking young and immature, a source that should not be trusted.

2. The overwhelming moral superiority of your post.  If you don't curse, fine.  But are on a crusade to change everyone else's behavior?

You took my post in the wrong way, how is that chip on your shoulder? I am not superior to anyone. I am a very down to Earth guy. I cuss I think most people do but I would say I do it in less than 10% of conversations. And when on line I do it less than 2% of the time, because it makes me seem more professional and adult. I also notice that you do not cuss very often and because of that I an likely many others have built up more respect for you than we would have if you went around blasting people with cuss words because they think you are wrong.

3. Schools block plenty of sites for the most arcane reasons.  Why?  Because it was not appropriate to be accessing that site in a learning environment as it had no educational or research value.

The point is that many C&G members acess the site from both home and work and some probably predominantly at work. Should they loose acess to the site because some people can't have more decorum in their posts?

4. You assume that anyone who disagrees with you curses a lot.  I for one don't...

Already addressed that, NEXT!

5. School is not the optimal place to dick around on the net.  I bet your administrators would be apathetic to complaints of C&G getting blocked.

I am dicking around because I already did my reading, homework. There are about 50-60 other computers near me with people doing everything from reading their myspace site to printing out search results from medical research magazines that may help their patients with problems beyond their control. The Admins may not care if 1 place blocks the site but I am pretty sure that the members would care if they could only acess the site at home.

[aaaantoine]

As far as language, I don't have an issue with it.  No one can see text on the screen unless they're specifically focusing on it. They're certainly not going to pick up on random curse words in our posts... unless of course they're set to largest, bold, and red.

pictures and sigs on the otherhand.... I forget who it it, but any posts with 15 anime chicks with bouncing chevy boobies, I have to scroll off the screen when I'm at work.

I'd be content with a NWS in the titles of threads with pictures....

That's in Nick's sig. Signatures can be turned off... And in a school/work environment, should be turned off anyway.

Which reminds me. *turns off sigs*

[ehaase]

I would prefer the cursing to be limited to the lounge, where sexual and other personal topics often come up.

I do not understand why Northstar finds he has to curse so much.

[aaaantoine]

Fly, maybe an optional language filter can be added for users that want that option.

Each user should have a right to censor the information they receive. Likewise, each user should have the right to see the posts as they were intentionally written.

[Flybrian]

Fly, maybe an optional language filter can be added for users that want that option.

Each user should have a right to censor the information they receive.  Likewise, each user should have the right to see the posts as they were intentionally written.

I'll have to check to see if that is user-configurable. Good suggestion, though!

[Mr.Krinkle]

sorry i missed this one.

while im not one for gratuitious cursing, it sometimes helps get a point across.

the funniest comedians dont need to curse but we all know that when the do its just to emphasize a point or for a laugh.

the ones who arent funny and curse for the hell of it doesnt then make them funny simply because they are versed in 4 letter words.

now, i think 91z was more offended because he was called an "ass pick" and was insulted. maybe, rightfully so.

i dont think its a matter of censorship or language, he was just offended by someones, perhaps, crass statement and took it rather personally.

adults curse. in the real world, yes, adults curse.

[Camino LS6]

This is a subject we need to resolve. At one time, I enforced the rules against foul language across the board. Now, I will only do that if it is used in excess as members of the staff have been guilty of using questionable language and I won't be hypocritical by enforcing that rule unfairly. Personally, I am not offended by language generally, but I do believe that any forum rules should be followed and enforced. Lately the use of foul language has become more commonplace and ,at this level, detracts from the overall quality of the site.

[Croc]

Croc, this topic is not about school censorship or the morality of cursing. Please keep that for some other discussion.

The points were brought up and I addressed them accordingly.

[Croc]

Lately the use of foul language has become more commonplace and ,at this level, detracts from the overall quality of the site.

Hmmm this is a good point. As you may know I've been busy what with work, PT and teaching Vacation Bible School that I haven't been around as much as of late. If things have gotten markedly more crass then I think we should warn the offending members through PM to tone it down a bit, something like "we aren't really language police, and we don't want to be...but we will be forced to unilaterally enforce filtering if you and others don't tone it down a notch."

Honestly I don't think language has really been a problem in the past. This isn't some wannabe 1950s utopia site anyways...

[Drew Dowdell]

Hmmm this is a good point.  As you may know I've been busy what with work, PT and teaching Vacation Bible School that I haven't been around as much as of late.  If things have gotten markedly more crass then I think we should warn the offending members through PM to tone it down a bit, something like "we aren't really language police, and we don't want to be...but we will be forced to unilaterally enforce filtering if you and others don't tone it down a notch."

Honestly I don't think language has really been a problem in the past.  This isn't some wannabe 1950s utopia site anyways...

right... it's a wannabe 1968 utopia site...

[NOS2006]

dicking

Anyway, I feel the cussing should me minimal in non-Lounge topics. Other words, or , can be used instead. Cussing can be used, but I don't want to see f@#k, bitch, ####, dick, etc. in there. $h!, ass, pissed, etc. should be allowed.

Lounge though? Go ahead and say whatever for all I care; it's a Lounge where adult conversations occur.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

If there is a language filter, please, please, please, do not do what GMI does. I hate typing in a word like "damn" and getting "****************************************************". It ruins the post.

[Croc]

If possible, the personal language filters sound like the best option...I mean if someone is offended, they should be able to turn off what offends them...whether it be sigs or someone's potty mouth.

On a side note...ehaase can you point me to some of Northstar's posts? Granted, this kind of thing clearly doesn't bother me...but usually I do have a subconcious note on the more...colorful...members and Northstar has never struck me as a potty mouth.

Edited June 23, 2006 by Croc

[Nick]

pictures and sigs on the otherhand.... I forget who it it, but any posts with 15 anime chicks with bouncing chevy boobies, I have to scroll off the screen when I'm at work.

There are only 10...

It's bad enough Silky had to be removed a long time ago...don't kill my boobie girls off too...

Honestly though, I really don't care...if you guys get tired of seeing them I'll remove them...I am starting to bore of them as well....

[Drew Dowdell]

This is a war against potty mouths!

[VenSeattle]

Nick - I don’t have a problem with the Chevy girls... I've pointed out to coworkers who have commented on them (I'll show & discuss topics from C&G at times while at work) that they missed the Chevrolet Bow Tie hiding in plain site. I take into account the automobile industry itself is attached to scantily-clad female models... auto event pics (like SEMA) show more flesh than your animated Chevy girls.

I would just like to tone down the most offensive forms of speech. Really, why should 'nigger, wetback, kike, & f@#k' be used on C&G? True, there are derogatory terms with multiple legitimate uses: slant, chink, bastard, ass etc...

Easily identified 'hate speech' and extreme 'offensive language' can be controlled (at a bare minimum) to assist with preventing a hostile environment. I like the idea of a filter that can be enabled/ disabled, but I don’t believe this board is capable of that. It’s something to find out.

[Flybrian]

My observations tell me we do not have a problem with the real nasty stuff, but more the overuse of 'f@#k' and '$h!.'

Again, in non-Lounge topics this makes a larger impact because its what the casual non-member browser sees.

[Sixty8panther]

Barbara Streisand

now there's a couple of nufckig words that should be censored!

[Sixty8panther]

Would you consider this "work safe"?

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/fckshtpss.html

[Cory Wolfe]

Yeah... let's see. The optional filter sounds the best, if possibly. I think for non members, the filter should be in place. That would pretty much solve everyone's problem. Again, I don't want a filter and will always be against it, otherwise. Censorship = bad.

[Croc]

I'm with BV

[Satty]

F*ckin' A right we dont need no g*dd*mn sh*tty *ss motherf*ckin c*nty filters.

[corvette_dude729]

Censorship is just one more step before we reach mass communism. f@#k censorship, this is America. I can't say whatever the f@#k I want to. Well, we might as well take away the first amendment.

[91z4me]

Yeah... let's see. The optional filter sounds the best, if possibly. I think for non members, the filter should be in place. That would pretty much solve everyone's problem. Again, I don't want a filter and will always be against it, otherwise. Censorship = bad.

Agreed.

[ShadowDog]

Censorship is just one more step before we reach mass communism. f@#k censorship, this is America.  I can't say whatever the f@#k I want to.  Well, we might as well take away the first amendment.

When it comes to the global cultural issues, censorship is probably worse in America than anywhere else. The first amendment is meaningless when you consider that a board, such as this one, has global viewership. That said, it doesn't matter what anyone says, it seems to only matter in the eyes of someone viewing. Sometimes a disclaimer is all that is needed.

If the public understands the risk for where they choose to view content, it's up to them. If non-censored material prevents people from even accessing the site, well, that's not the site's fault. I'm not sure self-adjusting censorship settings will enable a server to render a site clear and accessible again anyway, so I'm not sure if that would work. I guess it just comes down to where it's appropriate or not to view the content.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

When it comes to the global cultural issues, censorship is probably worse in America than anywhere else.  The first amendment is meaningless when you consider that a board, such as this one, has global viewership.  That said, it doesn't matter what anyone says, it seems to only matter in the eyes of someone viewing.  Sometimes a disclaimer is all that is needed. 

If the public understands the risk for where they choose to view content, it's up to them.  If non-censored material prevents people from even accessing the site, well, that's not the site's fault.  I'm not sure self-adjusting censorship settings will enable a server to render a site clear and accessible again anyway, so I'm not sure if that would work.  I guess it just comes down to where it's appropriate or not to view the content.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree totally.

Maybe we could put the following at the bottom of the main forum index:

All posts © their respective authors. We are not responsible for any of their thoughts, brilliant or otherwise.

[Sixty8panther]

WhyJay's got the right idea wiht the disclaimer.

[trinacriabob]

f@#k all that goddamn cencorship bull&#036;h&#33;...

Oh yea, and one more thing...

ASS

That's why I like you ... standard issue Southern California irreverence!

[trinacriabob]

I think if C&G wants to really be taken seriously by GM and members of the GM Enthusiest community we need to quit the cussing and start acting a little more adult.

Try listening to or reading Watergate transcripts...or the way our last First Lady (if you want to use the word "lady") talked behind closed doors...those are our country's leaders and they talk like that. The Lounge is our locker room...as long as the posts remain intelligent on other parts of the forum, I don't think our credibility is lost.

[trinacriabob]

It's bad enough Silky had to be removed a long time ago...

Silk(e)y was one of my favorite things on C&G...enough to "bust a gut" laughing.

[capriceman]

I dont have a problem with people ing swearing. Outside the lounge I dont often see NWS stuff. So no Sensors. Maybe instead some Members should recive verbal warnings. Or further Action required like I love Toyota Camry Signatures with a pink Camry in it. :AH-HA_wink:

!(Add a poll)!

Edited June 30, 2006 by capriceman

[nzr]

This is why I prefer C&G over GMI, there is no net-nanny for fowl language in the forums. Like someone else said, it's a more "real" forum..and many of us prefer it like this.

Keep it as it is!

[Imaj]

I like it as is! We should be allowed to practice our freedom of speech and cursing is an essential part of it!