Employee Discount

[Guest buickman]

Exactly.

We can debate merits ALL day long of, say for example, pushrod engines versus multi-valve/cams.....

But at the END of the day, everyone else has abandoned pushrod technology (with the exception of a few 3.8L Chrysler V6s) in their L4 and V6 engines.

People are happily flocking to the competition's more "advanced" and (in 9 times out of 10) more powerful DOHC/multi-valve engines. 

Why GM continues to defy trends in the market like this.....I just don't know.

166503[/snapback]

because "Rickin' Little" and Co. are looters, not producers.

(see Atlas Shrugged)

$

[91z4me]

Why GM continues to defy trends in the market like this.....I just don't know.

166503[/snapback]

Right now, IMO, GM's past managment didn't prep for the advancing technology of OHC, 4+ speed trannies because they thought that by offering a better 'value' and marketing the 'value' that people wouldn't care or notice the difference. That is the problem. We all know that the 6 speed RWD and FWD trannies are coming. It seems the 3.6 DOHC engine will spread pretty far across GM as a whole, upcoming Lambdas, NG Thetas, possibly NG Epsilon cars, Zetas... You can see the corprate culture finally seeing the perception problem. And the only way to change perception is to offer all and more than the competition at the same price.

[Guest buickman]

Right now, IMO, GM's past managment didn't prep for the advancing technology of OHC, 4+ speed trannies because they thought that by offering a better 'value' and marketing the 'value' that people wouldn't care or notice the difference.  That is the problem.  We all know that the 6 speed RWD and FWD trannies are coming.  It seems the 3.6 DOHC engine will spread pretty far across GM as a whole, upcoming Lambdas, NG Thetas, possibly NG Epsilon cars, Zetas...  You can see the corprate culture finally seeing the perception problem.  And the only way to change perception is to offer all and more than the competition at the same price.

166513[/snapback]

With all due respect, what you are speaking of is altering reality as opposed to perception.

Edited July 14, 2006 by buickman

[91z4me]

With all due respect, what you are speaking of is altering reality as opposed to perception.

166514[/snapback]

WFT are you talking about?

GM putting more dollars into development and setting the designers loose to put out HOT new models that are more than competitive than models what GM has put out in the past, Lacrosse is a stirring example. Good but not great. Competitive with outgoing soon to be replaced models and not up to par with new ones.

[Newbiewar]

400 silverados - well, gas prices might be to blame

300 2007 tahoes - just stocking up

50 equinox - easily fixed with the 3.6/6sp, a real interior, and some styling tweaks, why hasn't GM stepped up

50 2007 suburbans & avalanches - stocking up

50 colorodo - too small, no 6, cheap interior, no wonder

10 uplanders... or so...  - better put those on ebay or sell em to dominos pizza

166041[/snapback]

... no... gas prices are not to blame for our low stock...

we ought to have over 700 silverados in stock

we ought to have over 700 tahoes in stock...

but its been very difficult to keep them coming in on a consistant basis...

Perhaps i should make something else clear 80% of those 400 silverados are 2007's Silverado Classics...

Colorodo and Uplanders... throw them in the trash, they are about appealing as a turd in a punch bowl...

[regfootball]

The market could care about 5 speed or pushrod, it looks for panache.

Buickman

166497[/snapback]

if your customers are 80+ i suppose

but simulated convertible tops have gone away?

Edited July 14, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Right now, IMO, GM's past managment didn't prep for the advancing technology of OHC, 4+ speed trannies because they thought that by offering a better 'value' and marketing the 'value' that people wouldn't care or notice the difference.  That is the problem.  We all know that the 6 speed RWD and FWD trannies are coming.  It seems the 3.6 DOHC engine will spread pretty far across GM as a whole, upcoming Lambdas, NG Thetas, possibly NG Epsilon cars, Zetas...  You can see the corprate culture finally seeing the perception problem.  And the only way to change perception is to offer all and more than the competition at the same price.

166513[/snapback]

the perception issue won't go away until cars like the G6, GP, and Malibu get that engine too

[regfootball]

... no... gas prices are not to blame for our low stock...

we ought to have over 700 silverados in stock

we ought to have over 700 tahoes in stock...

but its been very difficult to keep them coming in on a consistant basis...

Perhaps i should make something else clear 80% of those 400 silverados are 2007's Silverado Classics...

Colorodo and Uplanders... throw them in the trash, they are about appealing as a turd in a punch bowl...

166538[/snapback]

perhaps a larger chassis and a 6 cylinder motor and a decent interior would have saved the Colorado from that fate.

As for the uplander, i hear local VFW's won't even raffle them off if given to them

[haypops]

But at the END of the day, everyone else has abandoned pushrod technology (with the exception of a few 3.8L Chrysler V6s) in their L4 and V6 engines.

166503[/snapback]

In all fairness to GM both the Atlas and Ecotec families of L4 engines are OHC, leaving what? Also part of the reason GM is late to the 5 speed automatic transmission is that they are early to the 6 speed automatic. Likewise Chrysler seems to be having great success with the "hemi" and Ford has lost its overwhelming predominace in the Class 3 and above truck market in PART due to their reliance on OHC engines rather than OHV engines (the other part being the failure of the Navistar engine.)

[CARBIZ]

It's very funny that you would mention Sony and betamax. I owned two video stores for 11 years: 1985 to 1996. Sony invented the betamax in 1975. It was superior in every way to VHS, which was introduced by Matsu$h!a. It had fewer moving parts, the load mechanism was simpler. It resulted in fewer "eaten" tapes. But Sony got greedy and only licensed Hitachi and, I believe Toshiba, to sell beta. Matshu$h!a was clever and licensed everybody.

Eventually, the market swamped beta with VHS. By 1986, beta was dying everywhere. I never even opened with beta in my main store in 1985.

We also sold VCRs in my stores. And even then, in electronics, consumers didn't GIVE A RATS ASS about 4 heads versus 2 heads (unless they watched a lot of pornos! LOL) or metal chassis versus die cast chassis versus stamped chassis - all they gave a damn about was the price and how pretty it looked. Of course, later when it ate a $100 movie and they were charged for it, well they cared. I would naively spend 45 minutes showing a customer why the Electrohome was better than Sharp, then the customer would go up the street and buy the crappy Sharp unit from Canadian Tire because it was $35 cheaper.

Some things never change.

[The O.C.]

In all fairness to GM both the Atlas and Ecotec families of L4 engines are OHC, leaving what?  Also part of the reason GM is late to the 5 speed automatic transmission is that they are early to the 6 speed automatic.  Likewise Chrysler seems to be having great success with the "hemi" and Ford has lost its overwhelming predominace in the Class 3 and above truck  market in PART due to their reliance on OHC engines rather than OHV engines (the other part being the failure of the Navistar engine.)

166756[/snapback]

True....the Ecotecs are more than competitive.....and gutsy, smooth little four-bangers. But remember how long GM was still peddling the pushrod 2.5L "Iron Duke" in everything from Fieros to A-bodies....at a time back then when most imports had moved on to OHC L4 engines.

The V6s are the big problem.....and the vast majority of the market (if you consider the midsize to large car segments.)

The V8s are simply executed to a much higher level than the V6s. That's why the pushrod V8s that GM produces are relatively well accepted in the marketplace. That being said, I disagree about Ford losing market share due to their OHC engines. It certainly hasn't hurt acceptance of the mainstream F-150 and F-250...and I can attest to their class-competitive or even leading smoothness, willingness to rev, and overall performance. It's the trucks' relatively high curb weights that tend to blunt that performance relative to GM pickups and large SUVs.

Edited July 14, 2006 by The O.C.

[regfootball]

It's very funny that you would mention Sony and betamax.  I owned two video stores for 11 years: 1985 to 1996.  Sony invented the betamax in 1975.  It was superior in every way to VHS, which was introduced by Matsu$h!a.  It had fewer moving parts, the load mechanism was simpler.  It resulted in fewer "eaten" tapes.  But Sony got greedy and only licensed Hitachi and, I believe Toshiba, to sell beta.  Matshu$h!a was clever and licensed everybody.

  Eventually, the market swamped beta with VHS.  By 1986, beta was dying everywhere.  I never even opened with beta in my main store in 1985.

  We also sold VCRs in my stores.  And even then, in electronics, consumers didn't GIVE A RATS ASS about 4 heads versus 2 heads (unless they watched a lot of pornos! LOL) or metal chassis versus die cast chassis versus stamped chassis - all they gave a damn about was the price and how pretty it looked.  Of course, later when it ate a $100 movie and they were charged for it, well they cared.  I would naively spend 45 minutes showing a customer why the Electrohome was better than Sharp, then the customer would go up the street and buy the crappy Sharp unit from Canadian Tire because it was $35 cheaper.

  Some things never change.

166795[/snapback]

and my dad still has the same original FOUR HEAD ZENITH vcr he bought back in the early 80's. works great. he bought it because it was a four head. your point is...........

Edited July 14, 2006 by regfootball

[Mr.Krinkle]

i knew people who held on to their betas because they swore theyd be back.

even though it was a better system it wasnt accepted.

i think pushrods are fine. if there was to be a comparison, beta would = ohc.

it was supposedly a better system but just never caught on.

i think reg thinks that ohv are more like laserdiscs. or maybe even 8 tracks.

cassetes just suck and im glad thet are a thing of the past.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/12/08/autoblo...efinitive-rant/

i think everyone has their opinion, who is an "enthusiast" and sometimes engines like the corvettes make some people think twice but when the "average" consumer goes car hunting and the toyota or honda dealer starts telling the consumer their point of view then they become slanted.

magz like cr dont help the cause either.

you can find good and bad points in either application. i know what kind of engine i prefer.

[Guest buickman]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, inquiring minds want to know what should GM do next for advertising and incentives...

[haypops]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, inquiring minds want to know what should GM do next for advertising and incentives...

166955[/snapback]

They should take a page from the Road to Greatness" and award Camry owners with a trip to Flint.

[regfootball]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, inquiring minds want to know what should GM do next for advertising and incentives...

166955[/snapback]

1000 dollar hooters gift cards, they haven't tried that yet.

honestly the 0/72 thing and some year end rebates on slow sellers is fine.

Edited July 15, 2006 by regfootball

[zhawk]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, inquiring minds want to know what should GM do next for advertising and incentives...

166955[/snapback]

If they sell enough cars they will strap Buickman to a rocket for the next satellite launch.

[91z4me]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, inquiring minds want to know what should GM do next for advertising and incentives...

166955[/snapback]

How about convincing dealers into stop trying to be the Walmart of Chevy, Buick...? What about showing them how running ads showing how the current models are competitive with the competition instead of just talking about the best deal? What about talking about and actually having better customer service?

There are TONS of ideas that the average person outside GM can come up with that dealers just don't see, and I don't mean 1 specific plan.

[zhawk]

OK, my last comment may have been a bit too rude.

Anyway, I was told by one of the salemen at a dealership very close to my home that next month 0 for 72 will be back on. Not sure how accurate that is but this guy seems to know his stuff. He's one of the few salesmen I know who understands the cars and trucks he sells and seems really well informed on upcoming products.

[regfootball]

If they sell enough cars they will strap Buickman to a rocket for the next satellite launch.

167082[/snapback]

get your brands stright. the rocket was an oldsmobile.

[zhawk]

get your brands stright.  the rocket was an oldsmobile.

167144[/snapback]

:rotflmao:

I wasn't meaning the Olds 455 Rocket, I was thinking more of a Titan IV or one of the shuttles SRBs.

[regfootball]

:rotflmao:

I wasn't meaning the Olds 455 Rocket, I was thinking more of a Titan IV or one of the shuttles SRBs.

167229[/snapback]

I know, just havin some fun

[91z4me]

:rotflmao:

I wasn't meaning the Olds 455 Rocket, I was thinking more of a Titan IV or one of the shuttles SRBs.

167229[/snapback]

We could strap him to a Saturn V.

[Guest buickman]

We could strap him to a Saturn V.

167470[/snapback]

Ah well, fun and games, humor abounds. Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

[haypops]

Ah well, fun and games, humor abounds. Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

167613[/snapback]

ranch n. An extensive farm, especially in the western United States, on which large herds of cattle, sheep, or horses are raised. a place where bovine feces abound. :AH-HA_wink:

[Mr.Krinkle]

as long as its fun, games, and humour abound...

buickman: "if i dont sell a car in the next 15 minutes, im gonna club a baby seal!

thats right, you heard me. a baby seal, so come on down to flint, and see Americas #1 buick salesman."

Edited July 17, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle