Employee Discount

[91z4me]

look at it this way, if they do it month after month, there must be a reason.

164317[/snapback]

Was there a contract involved where they had to keep you X number of months? Usually this is how consultant services work, I should know my former employer did this.

[Guest buickman]

Irrelevant to this discussion.

[97regalGS]

i said this couple years ago and it still applies

the american public is addicted to GM crack when it comes to buying cars. without a discount, they won't buy most of their cars. they are just to used to it by now.

until GM comes out with some more must-have cars, they need the gimmicks. and even that is going to be problematic after the first wave of interest.

it's going to be a long while before consumers will walk into a gm dealership and plunk down cash with minimal discounts, they way they do at Honda.

[LTB51]

You, sir, are an a-hole.  How dare you get off saying that I "mislead" my customers.  You oughta spend 1 day on the sales floor and see what it is really like, instead of shooting your mouth off about stuff you clearly know nothing about.

163434[/snapback]

What do you mean, how dare I say it?

I've experienced it from your very first post in this thread. You claimed that the cobalt was better than the civic, and then you proceeded to lie and and mislead to make your point. It didn't work because I knew better and called you on it. But I have no doubt that you do the same or worse to your customers (as you have written in this thread).

Hopefully your customers will realize the deception. They might get a flier in the mail with a civic DX-G for $258/month w 2157 down, and of course they might realize that they could have got $857 off (because they could, and to make the math easy to compare to your numbers), and then they might realize that including taxes they are paying $297/month with $1,300 down. At that point they might realize that in your pitch the DX-G was $60 more per month than your choice of Cobalt, when in reality it is $30 less, a swing of $90 per month or some 30% less that what you "informed" them of (and to think, there was probably some salesman at another dealership that would have said "I don't know" and not taken the opportunity to lie to the customer!). As they are sitting in your service bay (again), they might read a magazine on the benefits of a 5SPD, or realize that your recall claims were bogus, or realize that your torque/MPG claims were meaningless.

I am sorry that you feel that GM's product line is so poor that you have to lie and mislead to sell it. Do what you gotta do. But don't try doing it to C&G, don't try doing it to me, don't mock the customers who see through it, and don't mock the other salesman for not stooping to your level.

And if you don't want to be called a liar, don't lie. Saying "I don't know" is a better response. The last GM salesperson I dealt with couldn't sell my GF a Cobalt or a Malibu, but he was a class act and he never lied to us.

As a matter of interest, is your objection because I called you a liar and you don't think that you are? Or that you are aware that you are misleading your customers but that I don't seem to recognize that you have to do that to sell a car?

[haypops]

As they are sitting in your service bay (again), they might read a magazine on the benefits of a 5SPD, or realize that your recall claims were bogus, or realize that your torque/MPG claims were meaningless.

164528[/snapback]

It wasn't that long ago that the Cobalt's cousins (ION) switched from an Aisin 5 speed automatic transmission to the GM 4 speed unit. No owner, serice tech, ets. doubts the superior performance of the GM unit.

Some people on this site go overboard on the Japanese hatred thing. You somehow make them look well mannered and knowlegable in comparison.

[Mr.Krinkle]

whos trying to convince who of what?

Some people on this site go overboard on the Japanese hatred thing. You somehow make them look well mannered and knowlegable in comparison.

actually is somewhat amazing.

[Guest buickman]

What marketing suggestions are there for GM given our current products, commitment to value pricing, and offerings from our competition? A return to GM employee discount for everyone would be disastrous, most everyone agrees this isn't an option. So pretend you're on the 39th floor of the Ren Cen, looking out the window, wondering how to profitably spur sales...

Buickman

[espo19047]

As a matter of interest, how much would I have to pay GM for a 7 year/100,000 mile comprehensive warranty on a Cobalt LT1?  I really can't find GM's extended warranty costs on their web site.

158585[/snapback]

The Cobalt is a great car! I sell lots of them. They do well in safety. They look good. If you want to compare to the Civic you must compare the SS or the LT because they are comparable in price. The fathers buying for their daughters are looking for 5 stars on crash ratings not 5 speeds on the tranny. The SS super charged is a fun car you all should drive one.

[CARBIZ]

LTB51, I chose not to respond to you two weeks ago because you are so far out too lunch I didn't know where to start.

I deal with people like you all the time in my line of work (those that think they know everything) and I usually just shrug and leave them to their own devices. It isn't worth it, I have learned.

If you love Honda, then that is your perogative. It is a free world. I do not, however, believe that on the balance when you weigh what features you get, the venerable quality of the Ecotec engines, the superiority of GM's 4 spd auto, and the fact that apples to apples a Cobalt TODAY is $50-60 per month less than a Civic on a lease - when you add it all up, yes, the Cobalt is a BETTER car.

Is the Cobalt perfect? No. I would like to see some improvement on the cloth interior, make the arm rest standard, etc., but those are my preferences.

Your ignorance knows no bounds. How many cars did you say you have bought - was it 3 or 4? I sell 8-11 a month. I have sold more than a 1,000 vehicles in my career. Who do you think knows more about vehicles and vehicle purchases? I keep in touch with former colleagues at other dealers and we own two Toyota stores. NOBODY I have talked to waives the admin, registration or freight. The PPSA is a government charge, as is the air tax and gasoline taxes. Next you're going to tell me you never paid those either.

You, sir, are delusional.

Just to pick up on one of your BS points: every dealer in southern Ontario (probably the world, but I will stick to what I know, unlike you) charges freight. The factory charges the dealer, so you damned well did pay the freight, it was just put somewhere else. Secondly, the New Car Department, the Used Car Department and the Business Office are completely separate departments: they have their own managers, their own budgets and their own targets. If you "negotiated" away the administration or registration it is because the New Car Department chose to "eat" it. I can assure you, the business office got their $300 or $400 or whatever it is.

In my much earlier illustration I chose the DX-G because it most closely matches the MSRP of the LT Cobalt coupe, I then went on to point out that for the same lease payment as a DX-G you COULD get a LT Cobalt with heated leather seats, sunroof, subwoofer, etc., OR you could save the $50. I do know that the Civic LX has more equipment and nicer equipment, but then that would cost even more money, wouldn't it?

My conscience is clear. I sell GM because I believe in their product and I believe Japan Inc is raping us. China will do it next: they will steal our technology, then export the very cars we showed them how to build. If you studied history and Japanese trade policies, you wouldn't be so smug in driving your rice burner.

[pow]

Weeeee, it's the car salesman superiority complex again...

[Mr.Krinkle]

Weeeee, it's the car salesman superiority complex again...

164949[/snapback]

i think you might have it reversed.

(not to pick at it but i just got tired of seeing bm deathwatch stuck up there)

to return to topic, at this time employee pricing wont accompish anything that 0 for 72 can accomplish. lets see how chrystler/dodge do, id bet gm sees some increase in traffic as toyota did when they had these sales last year.

[Guest buickman]

What GM needs is to implement a logical marketing strategy which incorporates dealer input and shares information with those in retail so they can properly prepare normal business aspects such as adequate inventory, personnel, and plan their individual advertising budgets to coincide with the manufacturer's efforts. We can only win in the market place if we work together against the competition instead of against each other.

Buickman

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I pay St. Ides several hundres of dollars a  month to "consult" me.

[/Joshiepoo mode]

164231[/snapback]

Satty, dude, has anyone told you you're a skitzo?

[Petra]

What GM needs is to implement a logical marketing strategy which incorporates dealer input and shares information with those in retail so they can properly prepare normal business aspects such as adequate inventory, personnel, and plan their individual advertising budgets to coincide with the manufacturer's efforts. We can only win in the market place if we work together against the competition instead of against each other.

165551[/snapback]

Adequate inventory, eh? Since when has GM had problems with inventory on any non-niche vehicles? Last I heard, GM is still producing far more vehicles that they are selling, mainly because the UAW will not allow them to halt or cut production while the inventory clears away. Look at automakers that are successful in the marketplace. They produce just enough cars to keep a steady stream flowing the dealer lots, and no more. It's simple supply & demand.

You still don't understand that the problem isn't that GM can't sell cars. The Solstice, Corvette, Sky and the GMT trucks prove that wrong. The problem is that the majority of the cars GM produces are undesirable, and, thus, nobody wants to buy them. Too much supply, not enough demand. And trying to artificially create demand, as you have proposed, would not lead to any long-term benefits. It would have the same effect as the incentives GM has become enslaved to: Enculturate the customer to depend upon the deal, not the product.

[Newbiewar]

What do you mean, how dare I say it?

I've experienced it from your very first post in this thread.  You claimed that the cobalt was better than the civic, and then you proceeded to lie and and mislead to make your point.  It didn't work because I knew better and called you on it.  But I have no doubt that you do the same or worse to your customers (as you have written in this thread).

Hopefully your customers will realize the deception. They might get a flier in the mail with a civic DX-G for $258/month w 2157 down, and of course they might realize that they could have got $857 off (because they could, and to make the math easy to compare to your numbers), and then they might realize that including taxes they are paying $297/month with $1,300 down.  At that point they might realize that in your pitch the DX-G was $60 more per month than your choice of Cobalt, when in reality it is $30 less, a swing of $90 per month or some 30% less that what you "informed" them of (and to think, there was probably some salesman at another dealership that would have said "I don't know" and not taken the opportunity to lie to the customer!).  As they are sitting in your service bay (again), they might read a magazine on the benefits of a 5SPD, or realize that your recall claims were bogus, or realize that your torque/MPG claims were meaningless.

I am sorry that you feel that GM's product line is so poor that you have to lie and mislead to sell it.  Do what you gotta do.  But don't try doing it to C&G, don't try doing it to me, don't mock the customers who see through it, and don't mock the other salesman for not stooping to your level. 

And if you don't want to be called a liar, don't lie.  Saying "I don't know" is a better response.  The last GM salesperson I dealt with couldn't sell my GF a Cobalt or a Malibu, but he was a class act and he never lied to us. 

As a matter of interest, is your objection because I called you a liar and you don't think that you are?  Or that you are aware that you are misleading your customers but that I don't seem to recognize that you have to do that to sell a car?

164528[/snapback]

i dont know lease rates on vehicles... but if we are comparing vehicle for vehicle... the civic is less equiped for a more expensive price...

the DX has A/C as unavalible... it has no radio, it doesnt have an option of an automatic transmission...

so if you want to pay 30$ more, for a vehicle that is less equiped... and i'm talking 30$ every month for the life of the loan/lease? thats at least 1500$ or more... that you are trying to save yourself...

the civic just doesnt compete with the cobalt... the base cobalt has more torque then all of the avalible engines for the civic... this means, that you've got the power you need to operate your vehcile while climing a hill with the A/C on... and thats if your civic is even equiped with an A/C... dont forget it comes standard on all trims of the cobalt.

what that also means is that you will have smoother acceloration and more power down in low rpms when its needed the most!

the cobalt has a better warranty then the Civic

it has long life components that the civic doesnt have like a timing chain, instead of a belt... the chain will last you the life of the motor where as the belt is recomended to be changed every 50-75k miles... the cobalt also has platinum tipped spark plugs, it has kevlar reinforced accessory belt thats good for 100k miles... the manual transmission, is a getrag transmission, the same manufacture of transmissions that are used in porshes and bmw...

ever tried to get a ash tray in a honda?

please, dont insult a salesman... we have it hard enough, nobody likes us because the rumor is that we are liars... but we dont lie, we get fired if we do... salespeople are as accountable for what they say as a doctor is with your life... a salesperson can be suit for incorrect statements. you want to meet a liar, try being a salesman, then you'll see a liar, every single customer...

[Newbiewar]

Adequate inventory, eh? Since when has GM had problems with inventory on any non-niche vehicles? Last I heard, GM is still producing far more vehicles that they are selling, mainly because the UAW will not allow them to halt or cut production while the inventory clears away. Look at automakers that are successful in the marketplace. They produce just enough cars to keep a steady stream flowing the dealer lots, and no more. It's simple supply & demand.

You still don't understand that the problem isn't that GM can't sell cars. The Solstice, Corvette, Sky and the GMT trucks prove that wrong. The problem is that the majority of the cars GM produces are undesirable, and, thus, nobody wants to buy them. Too much supply, not enough demand. And trying to artificially create demand, as you have proposed, would not lead to any long-term benefits. It would have the same effect as the incentives GM has become enslaved to: Enculturate the customer to depend upon the deal, not the product.

165611[/snapback]

hate to break it to you, but GM has the largest line up of any automanufacture... so to have the right vehicle for everyone on every lot is impossible... i've got over 800 vehicles in invetory, and i can tell you every day, we turn customers away cause we cant get or dont have the vehicle they are intrested in...

is it bad, that out of those 800 vehicles we only have 2 HHR's? we have 3 Corvettes, we have 2 aveos, 4 impalas, 4 malibus, 3 Monte Carlos... you can figure out the rest....

400 silverados

300 2007 tahoes

50 equinox

10 trail blazers

50 2007 suburbans & avalanches

50 colorodo

10 uplanders... or so...

and we are still trying to recover from Employee discount last year...

we ought to have around 1500 vehicles...

we ought to have around 30 million$ in new vehilces... but GM just cant get them to us fast enough...

all our previous customers look at our storage yards and they are like last time i was back here... it was full... how come there arent any cars back here?

GM produces as many vehicles as its dealers ask for... but the dealers build them with the wrong option set... for example, we've got a lot of 2006 LT2 silverados on the lot... people dont really like that option set... at least that shop at our location, if they are going to get the center console they want leather... so LT3 is best...

but we've got just a few LS and W/T models... and those generally dont sit on the line that long... i wont lie, our oldest vehicle is nearing 250 days in inventory... thats a long time... whos fault is it? its not GM's, its ours for ordering it the way customers dont want it... its a very difficult job to predict what consumers want... thats why right now, GM is giving the dealerships extra money under the table for selling cloth tahoes... because GM is having trouble keeping up with the demand of the leather seating... its very difficult to predict the majority of the world will want...

Edited July 12, 2006 by Newbiewar

[Guest buickman]

Adequate inventory, eh? Since when has GM had problems with inventory on any non-niche vehicles? Last I heard, GM is still producing far more vehicles that they are selling, mainly because the UAW will not allow them to halt or cut production while the inventory clears away. Look at automakers that are successful in the marketplace. They produce just enough cars to keep a steady stream flowing the dealer lots, and no more. It's simple supply & demand.

The difficulty is knowing what goofball program is coming next. At times GM places extra dollars on old stock. Dealers who properly manage their inventories are then at a competitive disadvantage. Other times GM comes with outstanding leases on certain models and again dealers with well managed stock are caught short.

A few years ago Buick planned a fall campaign featuring free leather on LeSabres. Dealers were notified months in advance and were then able to order stock in anticipation. The result was a successful promption whereby dealers had inventory on hand for what GM was advertising.

Buickman

Edited July 12, 2006 by buickman

[91z4me]

Irrelevant to this discussion.

164441[/snapback]

That is a yes. And it is relevent to this discussion as much as your being hired as as consultant and your effectiveness.

[Guest buickman]

That is a yes.  And it is relevent to this discussion as much as your being hired as as consultant and your effectiveness.

165691[/snapback]

Probably so, although in retrospect I was defending myself. Anyway, your point is well taken.

[Mr.Krinkle]

youre good at what you do.

[Mr.Krinkle]

LOL - Sarcasm duly noted.

163714[/snapback]

if you look closer youll see it was pulled from the dumont network.

[evok]

if you look closer youll see it was pulled from the dumont network.

165736[/snapback]

I think you might have dated yourself - I had to look that up. Let it never be said you cannot learn something new every day.

LOL

http://hometown.aol.com/cingram/television/dumont.htm

Edited July 12, 2006 by evok

[Mr.Krinkle]

Let it never be said you cannot learn something new every day.

LOL

http://hometown.aol.com/cingram/television/dumont.htm

165745[/snapback]

thats the truth. thanks for the link but i wasnt around for it either. (maybe in a few years can update it to upn or wb, although i like dumont better).

Edited July 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[The O.C.]

LTB51, I chose not to respond to you two weeks ago because you are so far out too lunch I didn't know where to start.

  I deal with people like you all the time in my line of work (those that think they know everything) and I usually just shrug and leave them to their own devices.  It isn't worth it, I have learned.

If you love Honda, then that is your perogative.  It is a free world.  I do not, however, believe that on the balance when you weigh what features you get, the venerable quality of the Ecotec engines, the superiority of GM's 4 spd auto, and the fact that apples to apples a Cobalt TODAY is $50-60 per month less than a Civic on a lease - when you add it all up, yes, the Cobalt is a BETTER car.

164836[/snapback]

CARBIZ, you and Newbie are doing exactly as you SHOULD do as sales people selling Chevrolets....

You are knowledgeable about your product (Cobalt in this case) and you have both formulated arguments and competitive comparisons that you utilize in hopes of demonstrating to your clients WHY they should buy your Cobalt instead of that Civic they were looking at yesterday.

I give you credit for that. I would expect NO less of any of my sales people.

However, unfortunately the fact of the matter is that the new Honda Civic is a far superior product to the Cobalt/G5 in terms of engineering, design, interior quality, features (Nav...) and overall product execution.

Take interior/exterior styling out of the equation though because that is entirely subjective.

You make good arguments about the 2.4L engine's flexibility. But in reading your comments, I'm going to assume you've never spent any significant amount of time in the new Civic, or really seen how its powertrains compare. You can't judge an engine alone on its specs.

The Civic Si engine is quicker in all published tests than what we've seen from the 2.4L SS that was in MT.....and yes....a Civic Si is priced comparable to a normally-aspirated SS......not the SS SC.

The base Civic L4 is VERY comparable to the base Cobalt 2.2L as well.

I won't mention the 5-speed automatic.

(Oooppss.....I just did.)

Fact of the matter is that the market is demonstrating to us the popularity of Honda's new Civic. Factor OUT Cobalt's fleet sales, and the picture gets even bigger.

SO.....you won't hear me knocking EITHER of you for defending the Cobalt. It's what you SHOULD do. However, we are in C&G....not talking to you on the showroom floor....and it just seems that you are somewhat blindsided by inability to see and/or recognize the true nature of the market and your competition.

Trying to tell one of your customers that "the new Civic sucks" (wording exaggerated for emphasis) is not going to win you points.....especially if your customer is the least bit educated on the cars they are shopping. It will only put YOU in a bad light.

[Newbiewar]

CARBIZ, you and Newbie are doing exactly as you SHOULD do as sales people selling Chevrolets....

You are knowledgeable about your product (Cobalt in this case) and you have both formulated arguments and competitive comparisons that you utilize in hopes of demonstrating to your clients WHY they should buy your Cobalt instead of that Civic they were looking at yesterday.

I give you credit for that.  I would expect NO less of any of my sales people.

However, unfortunately the fact of the matter is that the new Honda Civic is a far superior product to the Cobalt/G5 in terms of engineering, design, interior quality, features (Nav...) and overall product execution.

Take interior/exterior styling out of the equation though because that is entirely subjective.

You make good arguments about the 2.4L engine's flexibility.  But in reading your comments, I'm going to assume you've never spent any significant amount of time in the new Civic, or really seen how its powertrains compare.  You can't judge an engine alone on its specs.

The Civic Si engine is quicker in all published tests than what we've seen from the 2.4L SS that was in MT.....and yes....a Civic Si is priced comparable to a normally-aspirated SS......not the SS SC.

The base Civic L4 is VERY comparable to the base Cobalt 2.2L as well.

I won't mention the 5-speed automatic.

(Oooppss.....I just did.)

Fact of the matter is that the market is demonstrating to us the popularity of Honda's new Civic.  Factor OUT Cobalt's fleet sales, and the picture gets even bigger.

SO.....you won't hear me knocking EITHER of you for defending the Cobalt.  It's what you SHOULD do.  However, we are in C&G....not talking to you on the showroom floor....and it just seems that you are somewhat blindsided by inability to see and/or recognize the true nature of the market and your competition.

Trying to tell one of your customers that "the new Civic sucks" (wording exaggerated for emphasis) is not going to win you points.....especially if your customer is the least bit educated on the cars they are shopping.  It will only put YOU in a bad light.

165848[/snapback]

its not that i want to sell them... its just my personal opinion, i'd be saying the same things if i was working at mcdonalds... the simple truth is i know 80% of what there is to know about the cobalt, and from what i know, it is superior...

i'm going to take what you just said with a grain of salt because you are always preaching about Asian vehicles...

I've grown up with toyotas all my life (right now 3 toyotas and 1 honda in my driveway), and i will put a stereotype on all of the Japan.inc for building lackluster vehicles... I'll never endorse or beleive into the perceived quality, why because i've owned these "Superior" products before, and i've had all sorts of problems... from my acrua with the blown cylinder, to my toyota truck with a blown head gasket, or what about the camry that just stalls on the freeway? what about the matrix that came from the factory with a non fuctional emergancy brake? or the toyota tires that lasted 6k miles?

[The O.C.]

its not that i want to sell them... its just my personal opinion, i'd be saying the same things if i was working at mcdonalds... the simple truth is i know 80% of what there is to know about the cobalt, and from what i know, it is superior...

i'm going to take what you just said with a grain of salt because you are always preaching about Asian vehicles...

I've grown up with toyotas all my life (right now 3 toyotas and 1 honda in my driveway), and i will put a stereotype on all of the Japan.inc for building lackluster vehicles... I'll never endorse or beleive into the perceived quality, why because i've owned these "Superior" products before, and i've had all sorts of problems... from my acrua with the blown cylinder, to my toyota truck with a blown head gasket, or what about the camry that just stalls on the freeway? what about the matrix that came from the factory with a non fuctional emergancy brake? or the toyota tires that lasted 6k miles?

165854[/snapback]

OK.....3 Toyotas and 1 Honda right now.....so when exactly DID you last actually own a domestic car so that you CAN compare reliability?

AND if the tires on your Toyota lasted only 6,000 miles.....then that isn't the car's fault....

Finally.....get your facts right before you call me a "preacher" on Asian cars. THIS part of the discussion was Cobalt versus Civic so that's what I was discussing....Civic happens to be a Japanese car. If I'm to be accused of ANYTHING here on C&G, it would have to be more my appreciation for the Europeans (re...BMW)....not Asian cars....???

Edited July 12, 2006 by The O.C.

[Newbiewar]

OK.....3 Toyotas and 1 Honda right now.....so when exactly DID you last actually own a domestic car so that you CAN compare reliability?

AND if the tires on your Toyota lasted only 6,000 miles.....then that isn't the car's fault....

Finally.....get your facts right before you call me a "preacher" on Asian cars.  THIS part of the discussion was Cobalt versus Civic so that's what I was discussing....Civic happens to be a Japanese car.  If I'm to be accused of ANYTHING here on C&G, it would have to be more my appreciation for the Europeans (re...BMW)....not Asian cars....???

165860[/snapback]

i drive a gmc seirra right now...

in my drive way right now... there is a chevy cavalier 2003 ford f350 2003 ford f250 2001 gmc 3500 67 mustang 98 camry 03 matrix xrs 02 honda civic 03 tundra

and tires should last 30-60k miles...

and sorry i confused you with sciguy_0504

Edited July 12, 2006 by Newbiewar

[Mr.Krinkle]

o.c., i know you had a rental cobalt that you were less than thrilled with, but is that whats coloring your perspective here?

im not getting in the middle here i really dont think "superior" is exactly the case. and i especially certainly wouldnt go as far as to say "far superior".

this site is usually pretty honest in my opinion.

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/rev...x.cfm/id/38695/

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/rev...x.cfm/id/38637/

yes the civic is favored but its like the 3 series for small econo cars.

Edited July 12, 2006 by Mr.Krinkle

[haypops]

click here

Just a few quick comments from Saturn dealership employees and owners on the automatic transmission arguement.

[regfootball]

i said this couple years ago and it still applies

the american public is addicted to GM crack when it comes to buying cars.  without a discount, they won't buy most of their cars.  they are just to used to it by now.

until GM comes out with some more must-have cars, they need the gimmicks. and even that is going to be problematic after the first wave of interest.

it's going to be a long while before consumers will walk into a gm dealership and plunk down cash with minimal discounts, they way they do at Honda.

164475[/snapback]

you know, lots of folks won't buy toilet paper at a given time anymore unless its on sale, has a coupon, or is in bulk cheap.

I'm so tired of people bitching about wanting to move product without incentives. If incentives create a buzz, who cares?

the best way to raise transaction prices is to build more desirable cars, incentives or no. Otherwise, you need incentives to move most iron anyways. Even Chrysler has to have a 30 day return policy on 300's now.

[regfootball]

hate to break it to you, but GM has the largest line up of any automanufacture...  so to have the right vehicle for everyone on every lot is impossible... i've got over 800 vehicles in invetory, and i can tell you every day, we turn customers away cause we cant get or dont have the vehicle they are intrested in...

is it bad, that out of those 800 vehicles we only have 2 HHR's? we have 3 Corvettes, we have 2 aveos, 4 impalas, 4 malibus, 3 Monte Carlos... you can figure out the rest....

400 silverados

300 2007 tahoes

50 equinox

10 trail blazers

50 2007 suburbans & avalanches

50 colorodo

10 uplanders... or so...

and we are still trying to recover from Employee discount last year...

we ought to have around 1500 vehicles...

we ought to have around 30 million$ in new vehilces... but GM just cant get them to us fast enough...

all our previous customers look at our storage yards and they are like    last time i was back here... it was full... how come there arent any cars back here?

GM produces as many vehicles as its dealers ask for... but the dealers build them with the wrong option set... for example, we've got a lot of 2006 LT2 silverados on the lot... people dont really like that option set... at least that shop at our location, if they are going to get the center console they want leather... so LT3 is best...

but we've got just a few LS and W/T models... and those generally dont sit on the line that long... i wont lie, our oldest vehicle is nearing 250 days in inventory... thats a long time... whos fault is it? its not GM's, its ours for ordering it the way customers dont want it... its a very difficult job to predict what consumers want... thats why right now, GM is giving the dealerships extra money under the table for selling cloth tahoes... because GM is having trouble keeping up with the demand of the leather seating... its very difficult to predict the majority of the world will want...

165647[/snapback]

400 silverados - well, gas prices might be to blame

300 2007 tahoes - just stocking up

50 equinox - easily fixed with the 3.6/6sp, a real interior, and some styling tweaks, why hasn't GM stepped up

50 2007 suburbans & avalanches - stocking up

50 colorodo - too small, no 6, cheap interior, no wonder

10 uplanders... or so... - better put those on ebay or sell em to dominos pizza

Edited July 13, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

CARBIZ, you and Newbie are doing exactly as you SHOULD do as sales people selling Chevrolets....

You are knowledgeable about your product (Cobalt in this case) and you have both formulated arguments and competitive comparisons that you utilize in hopes of demonstrating to your clients WHY they should buy your Cobalt instead of that Civic they were looking at yesterday.

I give you credit for that.  I would expect NO less of any of my sales people.

However, unfortunately the fact of the matter is that the new Honda Civic is a far superior product to the Cobalt/G5 in terms of engineering, design, interior quality, features (Nav...) and overall product execution.

Take interior/exterior styling out of the equation though because that is entirely subjective.

You make good arguments about the 2.4L engine's flexibility.  But in reading your comments, I'm going to assume you've never spent any significant amount of time in the new Civic, or really seen how its powertrains compare.  You can't judge an engine alone on its specs.

The Civic Si engine is quicker in all published tests than what we've seen from the 2.4L SS that was in MT.....and yes....a Civic Si is priced comparable to a normally-aspirated SS......not the SS SC.

The base Civic L4 is VERY comparable to the base Cobalt 2.2L as well.

I won't mention the 5-speed automatic.

(Oooppss.....I just did.)

Fact of the matter is that the market is demonstrating to us the popularity of Honda's new Civic.  Factor OUT Cobalt's fleet sales, and the picture gets even bigger.

SO.....you won't hear me knocking EITHER of you for defending the Cobalt.  It's what you SHOULD do.  However, we are in C&G....not talking to you on the showroom floor....and it just seems that you are somewhat blindsided by inability to see and/or recognize the true nature of the market and your competition.

Trying to tell one of your customers that "the new Civic sucks" (wording exaggerated for emphasis) is not going to win you points.....especially if your customer is the least bit educated on the cars they are shopping.  It will only put YOU in a bad light.

165848[/snapback]

don't use the Civic as an example for good design. please. at least pick the mazda3. the new civic is nothing but a teenagers video game ricey wet dream. it is NOT good design.

[Drew Dowdell]

my biggest overall complaint about the Civic is road noise road noise road noise.....

having to absolutely flog the engine to get anywhere is annoying too

a manual transmission civic is about the only manual I have difficulty with.... I'm always stalling them out because I"m not used to reving to 17 million RPM <yes an exageration> before letting out the clutch.

[CARBIZ]

As the tide washes back and forth over the Civic/Cobalt argument, my main point has been ignored totally: I am judging the vehicle for whom it is intended to be sold to, at prices they can afford.

If this were not true, then I would suppose everyone would be driving something like an Audi Quattro or BMW 7 series - but PRICE does matter, doesn't it?

Could GM have spent $50 more on interior trim, or $100 more on a multi-link rear suspension? Of course! Should she? That is debatable.

Honda has produced a vehicle that it believes its customers will PAY for. It has designed a vehicle that the critics will vote as the best because they are all snobs and would rather be driving a BMW anyway. Has it built the best possible car at the best possible price for the average small car buyer in North America? In my opinion, no.

Now, before you jump in and throw sales figures at me as proof that I am wrong, I would add that because Honda has built this vehicle for the car critics to approve of, a goodly chunk of the average consumers who otherwise DON'T GIVE A DAMN are swayed to buy (or probably, lease, because they are so damned expensive) the Civic because of those praises.

In my job selling the Cobalt against the Civic, it is my job to point out that in EVERY DAY driving, the Cobalt is a better product. Pouring rain and your arm is full of groceries? YOu can pop the trunk from 20 feet away, not fumble for the keys like in the Civic. Every car maker has to make compromises and decisions based on budgets, deadlines and market priorities.

These technical battles that we enjoy throwing around here on C&G are really beyond the scope of the average consumer: they don't know and they don't care.

They want something reliable, cheap, easy to maintain and that has features they can use. Screw the DVD Nav (who the hell needs that in a $15K car?????) and screw the car mags for confusing the issue that somehow a compact car in this class should somehow have to compete with a BMW 3 and if you can't afford to drive one you are a loser!

[chevelle454]

At least a radio comes in the Cobalt as standard equipment. The Civic DX does not

[regfootball]

Could GM have spent $50 more on interior trim, or $100 more on a multi-link rear suspension?  Of course!  Should she?  That is debatable.

maybe they should try it on a few cars they might find it works *equinox * cough

Honda has produced a vehicle that it believes its customers will PAY for.

yes, its become a snob car. and apparently in spite of dreadful styling and no torque they can get away with it.

It has designed a vehicle that the critics will vote as the best because they are all snobs and would rather be driving a BMW anyway.

pretty much, until BMW builds a compact around 20k, then cars like civics and jettas will thrive

Has it built the best possible car at the best possible price for the average small car buyer in North America?  In my opinion, no.

no, but all segments have fragmented so that not all people buy on price anymore, unfrotunately none of the US brands put out any products that appeal to that mindset, for nearly all segments.

[Spike]

pretty much, until BMW builds a compact around 20k, then cars like civics and jettas will thrive

 

They did, it is called the Mini.

[regfootball]

They did, it is called the Mini.

166351[/snapback]

I MEANT SOMETHING PRACTICAL, WITH SPACE AND 4 DOORS. I DON'T THINK THAT MINI WILL BE SURVIVING MANY CRASHES EITHER

Edited July 13, 2006 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

  These technical battles that we enjoy throwing around here on C&G are really beyond the scope of the average consumer: they don't know and they don't care.

166071[/snapback]

That is simply an ignorant statement......and a belief that GM executives and decision-makers have had for way too many decades.....hence the situation the corporation is battling RIGHT NOW.

[Guest buickman]

That is simply an ignorant statement......and a belief that GM executives and decision-makers have had for way too many decades.....hence the situation the corporation is battling RIGHT NOW.

166416[/snapback]

Probably the smartest thing I've seen you write, you're onto something there...

[CARBIZ]

IGNORANT STATEMENT? Sigh.

I have a bit of a reputation around my dealership for being a motorhead, but I can assure you that the two top sales guys know NOTHING about cars and don't even like them. They could sell an Eskimo snow. They can bamboozle their customers with BS, side step serious questions and still get the deal. Educating the customer is a mistake.

One thing I have learned, and that is that trying to explain active handling, VVT, the difference between AWD and 4WD, etc. is just a ticket to NO SALE. Customers get confused and a confused customer is a customer who will have to go home and "think about it." Keep it on track and off complicated discussions.

Occasionally, just occasionally, a customer will surprise me with genuine interest in the technical aspects of the car and it is refreshing.

What GM hasn't learned until recently, is that 6 years between refreshes and gaping gaps in plastic panels (like on the Alero) was unacceptable. DOHC or pushrod, 4 spd or 5 spd - these things only matter to engineers and people who think they are engineers.

What a consumer cares about is whether the car will start, put them in the poor house with repairs, look good in their driveway and not kill them at the pump.

If some fat, balding guy thinks he looks good in a $65,000 sled with 19" wheels, 400 hp, active handling, 18 spd manual transmission and 5 sunroofs - well, that is good for him. But I doubt even he would be able to drive the car the way it was designed, or be able to explain the 4 stroke combustion process in an engine: things that only matter to engineers and the hacks at C&D.

[pow]

These technical battles that we enjoy throwing around here on C&G are really beyond the scope of the average consumer: they don't know and they don't care.

166071[/snapback]

Perhaps exclusively selling Chevies at a Chevrolet dealership isn't the best way to educate yourself on "the average consumer." You're inevitably restricted to a certain type of people... those who actually walk in. Think of the millions of consumers who won't consider a Chevy car or bother to enter a Chevy showroom.

With the 'net, consumers are far more educated about cars than they were before.

[Guest buickman]

Perhaps exclusively selling Chevies at a Chevrolet dealership isn't the best way to educate yourself on "the average consumer." You're inevitably restricted to a certain type of people... those who actually walk in. Think of the millions of consumers who won't consider a Chevy car or bother to enter a Chevy showroom.

With the 'net, consumers are far more educated about cars than they were before.

166469[/snapback]

Which is why Return to Greatness is so critical, perception is reality.

Buickman

Edited July 13, 2006 by buickman

[pow]

Which is why Return to Greatness is so critical, perception is reality.

Buickman

166474[/snapback]

No, it's why new innovative product is so critical. You can market the hell out of a LaCrosse, but it still won't sell in So Cal.

[CARBIZ]

Sir, if I survived on customers who walked in, I would starve. No, I mine my own customers, I've run ads in novel places such as the gay press. I get a lot of referrals from our Toyota stores.

And I do have a life outside of my job.....at my gym, at the gay business association that I belong to...thru my nephew's soccer league......

Maybe only the consumers in Southern Ontario are stupid, then? Or are you insulting Chevrolet customers in general?

[regfootball]

quote=CARBIZ,Jul 13 2006, 03:42 PM

.......I can assure you that the two top sales guys know NOTHING about cars and don't even like them.  They could sell an Eskimo snow.  They can bamboozle their customers with BS, side step serious questions and still get the deal.  Educating the customer is a mistake.

I don't even know how to respond to that. How out of whack is that. Another example of why buyers (the reason the car business exists) hate salespersons, dealers, and the whole process. Its insulting to think people who don't care are the ones assisting us and providing customer service. To say educating the consumer is a mistake is like telling drunk college freshman on their first weekend at school at a 72 hour jungle juice party in a dorm or frat or happening apartment not to have birth control.

One thing I have learned, and that is that trying to explain active handling, VVT, the difference between AWD and 4WD, etc.  is just a ticket to NO SALE.  Customers get confused and a confused customer is a customer who will have to go home and "think about it."  Keep it on track and off complicated discussions.

  Occasionally, just occasionally, a customer will surprise me with genuine interest in the technical aspects of the car and it is refreshing.

Maybe for GM customers. See, Nissan and Honda and VW dealers might get a lot of tech-heads. My point....maybe its time GM was appealing to those freespending 'i want what i want and i care' types.

DOHC or pushrod, 4 spd or 5 spd - these things only matter to engineers and people who think they are engineers.

see above. people do care, they just aren't the buyers GM is getitng right now. If you work at Taco Bell you can try to say people don't want hamburgers because that's your own world, but you'd be quite wrong to say that's the case everywhere.

What a consumer cares about is whether the car will start, put them in the poor house with repairs, look good in their driveway and not kill them at the pump.

Sure, but that doesn't make it mutually exclusive of up to date technology, better performance, and great interiors. Customers expect it all. People in the GM fold have never gotten that or tried to provide all of that. Yet other companies are happy to provide it all....reliability and features/tech/performance.

Edited July 13, 2006 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

DOHC or pushrod, 4 spd or 5 spd - these things only matter to engineers and people who think they are engineers.

166443[/snapback]

Then if that's the case, why have other manufacturer embraced powertrain technologies such as multi-cam/multi-valve engines and higher-than-4-speed transmissions at a MUCH higher level than General Motors?

(Not to turn this into a DOHC versus Pushrod debate....only tagging on to your above example....)

Why is GM is still offering a majority of their cars with pushrods and 4-speeds when the market is clearing going in another whole direction?

People may not be engineers.....or race-car drivers.....or car designers.....but the vast majority of the motoring public recognize trends, popular perceptions, and widely-held beliefs in the automotive marketplace.....and they respond to them.

GM is doing itself no favors in trying to sidestep (or make excuses for) the public's perceptions.

[regfootball]

Then if that's the case, why have other manufacturer embraced powertrain technologies such as multi-cam/multi-valve engines and higher-than-4-speed transmissions at a MUCH higher level than General Motors?

(Not to turn this into a DOHC versus Pushrod debate....only tagging on to your above example....)

Why is GM is still offering a majority of their cars with pushrods and 4-speeds when the market is clearing going in another whole direction?

People may not be engineers.....or race-car drivers.....or car designers.....but the vast majority of the motoring public recognize trends, popular perceptions, and widely-held beliefs in the automotive marketplace.....and they respond to them.

GM is doing itself no favors in trying to sidestep (or make excuses for) the public's perceptions.

166485[/snapback]

why i hate sony.

betamax, minidisc, etc. they try to jam it down our throats. VHS = ohc. to the public. why fight it.

[Guest buickman]

The market could care about 5 speed or pushrod, it looks for panache.

Buickman

[The O.C.]

why i hate sony.

betamax, minidisc, etc.  they try to jam it down our throats.  VHS = ohc. to the public.  why fight it.

166486[/snapback]

Exactly.

We can debate merits ALL day long of, say for example, pushrod engines versus multi-valve/cams.....

But at the END of the day, everyone else has abandoned pushrod technology (with the exception of a few 3.8L Chrysler V6s) in their L4 and V6 engines.

People are happily flocking to the competition's more "advanced" and (in 9 times out of 10) more powerful DOHC/multi-valve engines.

Why GM continues to defy trends in the market like this.....I just don't know.