Employee Discount

[NOS2006]

Where is that troll's chrome grille? He needs a Paul Wall smile. He is Buickman afterall; he deserves a chrome grille and nothing but the best!

Edited June 23, 2006 by NOS2006

[sciguy_0504]

Now, now, children.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I couldn't find an empty cage, but here we go!

[CaddyXLR-V]

I couldn't find an empty cage, but here we go!

I hope you don't mind, but I stole it to use as my sig

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I hope you don't mind, but I stole it to use as my sig 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem.

(You don't have to, but it would be nice if you credited me...)

[CaddyXLR-V]

No problem. 

(You don't have to, but it would be nice if you credited me...)

Updated

[griff7774]

My advice for you:

NOW THAT GENUIS

[Satty]

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Updated

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks.

[Flybrian]

Guys...

Employee Discount is the topic.

[Sixty8panther]

Zero for 72... hell I'd buy a Solstice if that was the case!

[jbartley]

Do the math.

0% = about $1,000/y over the life of the loan on a $25,000 vehicle.

But that's not off the vehicle value, that's off the financing moneymaking potential.

0% for 72 is nothing new. GM has had that idea to clear off 06's since march. Don't think Buickman is releasing top secret information or anything.

0% for 72 would clear that inventory quickly, increase dealer traffic, and probably get buyers to trade in sooner rather than later.

[Guest buickman]

I couldn't find an empty cage, but here we go!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's funny!

[mot76]

Do the math.

0% = about $1,000/y over the life of the loan on a $25,000 vehicle.

A 72 mo loan at 6% vs 0% has a difference of about $4800.

That IS a big difference.

[Newbiewar]

A 72 mo loan at 6% vs 0% has a difference of about $4800.

That IS a big difference.

but thats only if the vehicle is kept for 6 years...

suggesting that the user kept the vehicle for 2-3 years, the consumers saving would not nearly be as good as the rebate... so in that scenario... GM gives less incentive on the vehicle...

also not everyone qualifys for 0%, only a select few do... so you are also putting prerequisites on their incentives, to attract a certain clientel...

this is the clientel that is generally higher educated and more responsible with their money. and to even stretch it more, people with credit scores over 700 are probably less likely to purchase domestic vehicles...

[Guest buickman]

Zero for 72 is OK compared to most goofball promos to come out of VSSM. The best part is that it allows the dealers to determine their own pricing structure and hopefully move the metal profitably. The biggest downside is how the factory once again displays their disdain for those of us in retail. How many families have vacations and reunions planned around this Fourth of July? GM shows their lack of compassion for the dealership employees who must now choose between earning a paycheck and spending time with loved ones. Also, many customers will be unable to shop for new wheels while they travel. As usual, General Motors exhibits their complete lack of understanding of the daily operations of the retail automotive market. GM will finally turnaround when Wagoner and his band of inept merchandisers are put on the street.

Buickman

Edited June 24, 2006 by buickman

[CARBIZ]

Look, let's face it, the old seasonal nature of the car business is a mess.

In the North, which is becoming less and less important to the car manufacturers in terms of over all sales, the months from December thru February are a write off - nobody wants to drive through a foot of snow to look at cars, unless they were just involved in a 8 car pile up on the freeway and don't have a choice!

"Boxing Month" sales help a bit, but most of us take our vacations in January/February.

The old traditional September launch probably helped with Fall sales in the past, but more and more we just see vultures looking for fire sales on previous year models through the Fall now.

Some hapless customers still innocently inquire when the new cars come out and our shrug and indifference doesn't help. I mean, who knows? Tahoe in January, Avalanche in April..... I know model launches are expensive, but there is some logic to having a structured, seasonal launch.

And GM's model launches used to be something the media drooled over; now, we see excitement for the new Accent or Fit, but a big who cares over the GM product. More and more GM is becoming irrelevant on the national stage. It is going to have to find something new or be wiped from the map.

[Guest buickman]

Look, let's face it, the old seasonal nature of the car business is a mess.

  In the North, which is becoming less and less important to the car manufacturers in terms of over all sales, the months from December thru February are a write off - nobody wants to drive through a foot of snow to look at cars, unless they were just involved in a 8 car pile up on the freeway and don't have a choice!

  "Boxing Month" sales help a bit, but most of us take our vacations in January/February.

  The old traditional September launch probably helped with Fall sales in the past, but more and more we just see vultures looking for fire sales on previous year models through the Fall now.

  Some hapless customers still innocently inquire when the new cars come out and our shrug and indifference doesn't help.  I mean, who knows? Tahoe in January, Avalanche in April.....  I know model launches are expensive, but there is some logic to having a structured, seasonal launch.

  And GM's model launches used to be something the media drooled over; now, we see excitement for the new Accent or Fit, but a big who cares over the GM product.  More and more GM is becoming irrelevant on the national stage.  It is going to have to find something new or be wiped from the map.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent observations, I'm in complete agreement.

Buickman

[bobo]

EDFE was a bum deal for real GM employees because the discounts were less than normal. I imagine this was not good for those who depended heavily on GMS sales.

[Satty]

I imagine this was not good for those who depended heavily on GMS sales.

i.e. Jim "Buickman" Dollinger in Flint?

[Newbiewar]

i.e. Jim "Buickman" Dollinger in Flint?

when your in a possition like his you get free cars...

demos or paid for by the owner of the dealer...

[daves87rs]

*looks around*

Anyways, the employee discount would be a bad idea all the way around...

GM has gotta shake the "wal-Mart" of the auto industry as fast as they can...

Plain and simple-people still want to have some value left on their car/truck.

0 for 72 is fine...it does offer some kind of deal....

Go ahead and let DCX steal some sales this month. They are going to take a beating for this quite soon....

I'll bet money that Honda and Toyota watch...hell, they can sell their cars just based on gas milage....

[carstar]

who's Buickman?

[LTB51]

  You'd all be happy to know that I have a thick dossier of articles and links that I have copied from C&G, so that when a customer declares that the SS Cobalt isn't a Civic (happened to me the other day), I can happily reply,"And that is a good thing."  I can show them about Honda and Toyota's lying abouth their hp numbers, about how Toyota has had more recalls (as a percentage of vehicles on the road) than GM and Ford.

  This is called SELLING.

No, it seems to me it is the usual salesman trick of making sure the customer doesn't see what is important so they end up with whatever product the salesman is selling, no matter how poor a choice it is for the consumer.

The HP #s issue is a red herring. And perhaps I misunderstand you, but your way of selling the recall counts is little better. I don't think it is correct (for example, in 2003 GM had >74 recalls (I only have counts for GMC, Chevy, Pontiac, and Olds which totalled 74) on ~4.76 million vehicles sold as compared to Toyota with 6 recalls on ~1.86 million vehicles sold. 2002 was better for GM, 48 recalls to Toyota's 6, but they were no where close to beating Toyota by your metric.). I can only imagine that if the metric compared the totall number of vehicles recalled GM would fair even worse. Granted, I'm not sure how 2004/2005 would compare, and I imagine 2006 will mark a decline in GM's reliability for the first time in some while.

But even if it were correct, it is misleading. If I have 5 recalls on my car, do I really care if they sold 100 or 1,000,000 of them? Do I really care if they sold 1,000,000 of another vehicle entirely?

But more to the point, you seem to be implying that GM is on par with Toyota/Honda in terms of reliability. As we have seen from the Cobalt (you brought it up), it is nowhere near the reliability of the Civic. In fact, it appears that a 1 year old Cobalt has the reliability of a 5-7 year old Civic/Corolla. And the G6 appears no better.

No, the cobalt is no civic. It is less safe, less fuel efficient, less reliable, less able to hold its value, less well designed, etc. Surely GM teaches you better arguments to sell to the customer for buying a Cobalt over a Civic than what you presented?

[The O.C.]

The biggest downside is how the factory once again displays their disdain for those of us in retail. How many families have vacations and reunions planned around this Fourth of July? GM shows their lack of compassion for the dealership employees who must now choose between earning a paycheck and spending time with loved ones.

BM, that's the NATURE of the retail business.

You out of anyone should know that and appreciate that.

When I was a sales manager working retail, I was on the desk EVERY holiday. Fact is, people buy cars during holidays.

I would be disappointed in ANY salesperson that didn't want to be on the line during a big holiday sale.

[Guest buickman]

BM, that's the NATURE of the retail business.

You out of anyone should know that and appreciate that.

When I was a sales manager working retail, I was on the desk EVERY holiday.  Fact is, people buy cars during holidays.

I would be disappointed in ANY salesperson that didn't want to be on the line during a big holiday sale.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll be in NY for my parent's 50th anniversary and 4th family reunion. Like many others across the US that I have heard from, GM marketing sucks and that is why they continue to lose share year in and year out. The new products we have received and the empty promises repeatedly given mean nothing. GM has ZERO to offer allright, as in ZERO credibility.

Buickman

Edited June 25, 2006 by buickman

[The O.C.]

I'll be in NY for my parent's 50th anniversary and 4th family reunion. Like many others across the US that I have heard from, GM marketing sucks and that is why they continue to lose share year in and year out. The new products we have received and the empty promises repeatedly given mean nothing. GM has ZERO to offer allright, as in ZERO credibility.

Buickman

You quoted me.....but failed to respond to my point about the fact that the nature of the business dictates that those in the retail industry, for the most part, depend on income from holiday sales such as those being developed around the 4th of July.

This is not a GM phenomenon.....it's industry-wide.

[Newbiewar]

You quoted me.....but failed to respond to my point about the fact that the nature of the business dictates that those in the retail industry, for the most part, depend on income from holiday sales such as those being developed around the 4th of July.

This is not a GM phenomenon.....it's industry-wide.

i would agree, people do buy vehicles on holidays, not because of the manufactures but because dealers will advertise 5 times as much on holiday weekends... soo... in the end, people have been trained over the last 30-50 years to purchase on holiday weekends

[haypops]

When I was a sales manager working retail, I was on the desk EVERY holiday.  Fact is, people buy cars during holidays.

Yes, however I think there are some regional differences. After all dealerships here in California are open Sundays till 10 PM in some cases. ON the east coast they don't even open. By the way there is some advantage to the closed Sunday thing. Some people will look over the inventory/new cars on a Sunday when the dealership is closed who wouldn't otherwise. The same low confrotation expectations works at the car shows too.

[BigPontiac]

Yes, however I think there are some regional differences.  After all dealerships here in California are open Sundays till 10 PM in some cases.  ON the east coast they don't even open.  By the way there is some advantage to the closed Sunday thing.  Some people will look over the inventory/new cars on a Sunday when the dealership is closed who wouldn't otherwise.  The same low confrotation expectations works at the car shows too.

I can't speak for the whole East Coast, but in CT and Western MA some dealerships are open on Sundays now. It's not as easy to walk the lot on a Sunday while the dealer is closed as it used to be. I can't buy alcohol, but I can buy a car.

As for buying during the holidays, my dad bought his 2006 Inifiniti G35x during Christmas week last year...he had to use up his vacation and took the week to cross shop cars and dump his 2004 Buick Ranier. He took delivery the day of Christmas Eve. As his salesman was doing the "pre-flight" with my dad and programming the bluetooth to recognize his blackberry, I chatted with another salesman who said they were delivering 6 cars to people's houses who had bought them as Christmas gifts for loved ones ON Christmas morning...which included a big red magnetic bow.

Edited June 25, 2006 by BigPontiac

[Guest buickman]

Sales should be done profitably and consistently over time, forget the whiz-bang sales which alienate salespeople, dealers, and customers. GM has absolutely no clue about retail and that is the crux of their problem.

Buickman

[Flybrian]

Sales should be done profitably and consistently over time, forget the whiz-bang sales which alienate salespeople, dealers, and customers.

I think we can all agree on this statement.

[Guest buickman]

I think we can all agree on this statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Brian, you are a wise man.

Buickman

[Newbiewar]

I think we can all agree on this statement.

agreed... i wish sales were consistant...

[Guest buickman]

agreed... i wish sales were consistant...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

The sales could be consistent if only GM had a clue. What is needed is a clear understanding of customer desires. Granted these can vary from coast to coast, but we must comprehend buyer psychology, that of itself is fairly steady regardless of location.

Buickman

[Drew Dowdell]

agreed... i wish sales were consistant...

They are consistant... consistantly falling that is...

[Guest buickman]

They are consistant... consistantly falling that is...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sad, but true.

Buickman

[Newbiewar]

Tim,

The sales could be consistent if only GM had a clue. What is needed is a clear understanding of customer desires. Granted these can vary from coast to coast, but we must comprehend buyer psychology, that of itself is fairly steady regardless of location.

Buickman

well they have started to realize people buy vehicles because of the vehicle, not the price... if that were the case, why would anyone buy a corvette when they could get a 2dr cavalier/cobalt?

they should have understood that all through the years... because they sold the most iconic car ever...

but its been for too long about the deal...

even at the dealership, i shudder when i hear a customer say, "well i have to go to work" or pick up his kids or whatever...

my boss, "what if i could reduce the payments another 20$? what if i could"

i'm like why drop your pants...?

sales is too much concerned with the near term rather then the long term benifits...

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Sales should be done profitably and consistently over time, forget the whiz-bang sales which alienate salespeople, dealers, and customers.

I think we can all agree on this statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't argue with Buckman's point (or Fly's for that matter) at all.

There may be hope for Buickman's muse after all.

Edited June 26, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[regfootball]

you need both fantastic cars and fantastic marketing.

again, like I said before, its the cars. Buickman, its pointless to whine about the marketing when its the cars that are suffering. Go tell your head buddies at GM to spend a little effort and money and stop putting cheap ass plastic all over the insides of their cars and tell them to stop pawning off antiquated pushrod motors in 3/4 of the car lineup. Look at the Equinox, worst auto interior available. Chinese pushrod motor. Or tell GM to make a new platform. That LaCrosse you sell could stand a new platform that doesn't require them to design the whole car around hard points that make for a horribly packaged solution.

tell your GM buddies to give you all new models every 4 years instead of the LeSabre which was the same from about 92 until just recently.

its not worth whining about the marketing. The cars are in need of attention. It would be a better use of your time to shift your enegergies into getting GM to UPGRADE THE DAMN CARS!!!!!

Edited June 26, 2006 by regfootball

[Guest buickman]

you need both fantastic cars and fantastic marketing.

again, like I said before, its the cars.  Buickman, its pointless to whine about the marketing when its the cars that are suffering.  Go tell your head buddies at GM to spend a little effort and money and stop putting cheap ass plastic all over the insides of their cars and tell them to stop pawning off antiquated pushrod motors in 3/4 of the car lineup.  Look at the Equinox, worst auto interior available.  Chinese pushrod motor.  Or tell GM to make a new platform.  That LaCrosse you sell could stand a new platform that doesn't require them to design the whole car around hard points that make for a horribly packaged solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Undoubtedly you are correct. Unfortunately the product takes time to develop and bring to market. The marketing aspect however can make an immediate impact and will lead to increased sales in the short term. Return to Greatness will provide the impetus necessary to jump start sales utilizing what we currently have on the blacktop, and do so in a much less expensive and far more productive manner.

Buickman

Edited June 26, 2006 by buickman

[regfootball]

at some point you'd hope GM would stop selling VHS and try to figure out what DVD even is.

[Newbiewar]

at some point you'd hope GM would stop selling VHS and try to figure out what DVD even is.

i'm quite sure, GM has more vehicles equipted with DVD's then any other manufactures... dont quote me on that, but i'm pretty positive...

the thing that gets me... is Chevrolet is GM's entry level brand...

but Chevrolet is the brand that sells more vehicles over 35k than every other brand out there... so how entry level is 35k?

the brands are missaligned...

[FAPTurbo]

Speaking of holiday marketing, goto Johnny.ca

This is Chevrolet Canada's website aimed at people my age, plugging Aveo's and the like.

I figure I'm the only person that visited it, considering the ads are, "dumb". This isn't my opinion, but the opinion of many people my age that I have asked, because I was curious if GM's marketing campaign was hooking customers aged 18 to the mid twenties...

This is one glossy website... imagine if they put some of that cash into a better Cobalt interior... the car would sell itself...

[Matt276]

at some point you'd hope GM would stop selling VHS and try to figure out what DVD even is.

Despite the lost of market share, GM still don't get it.

Build great products = easy to sell = no need for rebates = good profits

Why crappy interior an V6 pushrod engines in 2006?

[Newbiewar]

Despite the lost of market share, GM still don't get it.

Build great products = easy to sell = no need for rebates = good profits

Why crappy interior an V6 pushrod engines in 2006?

why does everyone discount gm on their pushrods?

the technology is proven to be reliable, GM's v6's get more fuel ecconomy then some of the DOHC competition... and they are plenty powerful, so whats the problem?

i remember racing a 3.5 altima in a 3.4L 2005 impala a few months ago while i was on the job, and there wasnt a comparason... the impala was the faster car...

one of my coworkers has an accura TL with the v6 he says it has 260 hp or something like that, but its only that much power at like 7000 rpms... he doesnt like that vtec technology, it doesnt have the power were you want it....

[evok]

Undoubtedly you are correct. Unfortunately the product takes time to develop and bring to market. The marketing aspect however can make an immediate impact and will lead to increased sales in the short term. Return to Greatness will provide the impetus necessary to jump start sales utilizing what we currently have on the blacktop, and do so in a much less expensive and far more productive manner.

Buickman

So us the data and analysis that your plan will work.

That is right, you do not have any.

[CARBIZ]

As to opening on holidays: quite simply, since the dealership doesn't pay the sales staff ANYTHING the management doesn't have a problem opening on holidays. You never see the dealer principal, General Manager or even usually the General Sales Manager on holiday weekends. Nowhere to be found.

Up here in the hinterland, you could shoot a cannon off in the show room on a holiday Saturday through the summer and not hit anyone, but that doesn't stop management from having 12 or 14 disgruntled salespeople standing around all day.

Need I remind people in the pushrod/OHC debate that Lutz challenged the idiots at the Toronto Star to a duel a couple years back and the lowly Grand Prix wiped the Maxima's ass all over the race course.

Under the category of Tyranny of the Enthusiasts", the average consumer doesn't give a s**t about pushrods, 15 speed automatics or any of that CRAP. They only care because CR, MT and other rags tell them to care.

I've challenged customers on what the advantage of a 5 spd transmisison is and WITHOUT EXCEPTION they shrug or mumble somethng that they read somewhere it was better.

And to the clown, who on the previous page claims the Civic is a much better, safer car, etc. than the Cobalt. PTHHHHHHHHHHHHH......................

Take your rice sunglasses off and take a good look.

If you only compare technical features and stuff that matters to auto journalists, then the Civic may have the edge. But if you look at the things that matter to the average consumer, the Civic is not better.

How about not having a split folding rear seat? HOw about having not being able to pop the trunk from your remote fob? And I think $50 a month (the difference in a lease payment in this area) is something to talk about, unless you are Daddy Warbucks.

The Civic may win in the Gee-Whizz department of Jetsons interiors, but that can work against them, too. The Civic looks good on paper, but in real driving conditions their lower torque numbers are not going to result in significantly better gas mileage than the Cobalt.

I will concede that GM could have tried a little harder in the interior department, but then the LT coupe with the graphite interior is pretty sharp.

[Guest buickman]

As to opening on holidays: quite simply, since the dealership doesn't pay the sales staff ANYTHING the management doesn't have a problem opening on holidays.  You never see the dealer principal, General Manager or even usually the General Sales Manager on holiday weekends.  Nowhere to be found.

  Up here in the hinterland, you could shoot a cannon off in the show room on a holiday Saturday through the summer and not hit anyone, but that doesn't stop management from having 12 or 14 disgruntled salespeople standing around all day.

  Need I remind people in the pushrod/OHC debate that Lutz challenged the idiots at the Toronto Star to a duel a couple years back and the lowly Grand Prix wiped the Maxima's ass all over the race course.

  Under the category of Tyranny of the Enthusiasts", the average consumer doesn't give a s**t about pushrods, 15 speed automatics or any of that CRAP.  They only care because CR, MT and other rags tell them to care.

  I've challenged customers on what the advantage of a 5 spd transmisison is and WITHOUT EXCEPTION they shrug or mumble somethng that they read somewhere it was better.

 

And to the clown, who on the previous page claims the Civic is a much better, safer car, etc. than the Cobalt.    PTHHHHHHHHHHHHH......................

Take your rice sunglasses off and take a good look. 

  If you only compare technical features and stuff that matters to auto journalists, then the Civic may have the edge.  But if you look at the things that matter to the average consumer, the Civic is not better. 

  How about not having a split folding rear seat?  HOw about having not being able to pop the trunk from your remote fob?  And I think $50 a month (the difference in a lease payment in this area) is something to talk about, unless you are Daddy Warbucks.

  The Civic may win in the Gee-Whizz department of Jetsons interiors, but that can work against them, too.  The Civic looks good on paper, but in real driving conditions their lower torque numbers are not going to result in significantly better gas mileage than the Cobalt.

  I will concede that GM could have tried a little harder in the interior department, but then the LT coupe with the graphite interior is pretty sharp.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree and do enjoy your common sense comments. It's nice to hear from someone with real world experience who is not afraid to tell it like it is. Keep up the good work.

Buickman

[Newbiewar]

As to opening on holidays: quite simply, since the dealership doesn't pay the sales staff ANYTHING the management doesn't have a problem opening on holidays.  You never see the dealer principal, General Manager or even usually the General Sales Manager on holiday weekends.  Nowhere to be found.

  Up here in the hinterland, you could shoot a cannon off in the show room on a holiday Saturday through the summer and not hit anyone, but that doesn't stop management from having 12 or 14 disgruntled salespeople standing around all day.

  Need I remind people in the pushrod/OHC debate that Lutz challenged the idiots at the Toronto Star to a duel a couple years back and the lowly Grand Prix wiped the Maxima's ass all over the race course.

  Under the category of Tyranny of the Enthusiasts", the average consumer doesn't give a s**t about pushrods, 15 speed automatics or any of that CRAP.  They only care because CR, MT and other rags tell them to care.

  I've challenged customers on what the advantage of a 5 spd transmisison is and WITHOUT EXCEPTION they shrug or mumble somethng that they read somewhere it was better.

 

And to the clown, who on the previous page claims the Civic is a much better, safer car, etc. than the Cobalt.    PTHHHHHHHHHHHHH......................

Take your rice sunglasses off and take a good look. 

  If you only compare technical features and stuff that matters to auto journalists, then the Civic may have the edge.  But if you look at the things that matter to the average consumer, the Civic is not better. 

  How about not having a split folding rear seat?  HOw about having not being able to pop the trunk from your remote fob?  And I think $50 a month (the difference in a lease payment in this area) is something to talk about, unless you are Daddy Warbucks.

  The Civic may win in the Gee-Whizz department of Jetsons interiors, but that can work against them, too.  The Civic looks good on paper, but in real driving conditions their lower torque numbers are not going to result in significantly better gas mileage than the Cobalt.

  I will concede that GM could have tried a little harder in the interior department, but then the LT coupe with the graphite interior is pretty sharp.

thank you...

according to the Insurance instatue for highway safty, the cobalt got a "good" rating in its crash test ratings while the corolla got "poor" and the civic wasnt even tested...

the base civic is 1500$ more then the base cobalt, and it doesnt even include a radio or a/c if i remember correctly...

people say it has better resale value... but its residual value percent isnt much different, its just a more expensive vehicle to start...