Employee Discount

[Guest buickman]

Just Announced...Chrysler to begin employee discount to everyone beginning July 1st. Will GM follow suit, or risk further market share loss? What options are available besides a similar brand eroding program? In my opinion, of course, the answer is Return to Greatness. Most likely, according to sources is Zero for 72. Any other suggestions?

Buickman

Edited June 21, 2006 by buickman

[Mr.Krinkle]

how about they just raise the prices so people will think they must have something good to offer.

or just leave it as is because people dont need to have that carrot being waved in front.

but personally i never saw it as a bad deal or idea.

it relieves inventory and if people do come in to at least look who ordinarilly wouldnt and it gets vehicle exposure

on the roads if they do decide to purchase.

i know many people do not at all see it similarly.

[Northstar]

I want GM to get away from the rebate game, but it might be a good idea to do it to get rid of the old Silverados, but certainly don't do it on the T900s, Kappas, HHR, Lucerne, Cadillacs (at least not most), Corvette, etc. On the old stuff it might be okay to do.

[Matt276]

No GM, don't do it. Maybe on the old Silverado and Colorado.

[Drew Dowdell]

Do it on any vehicle based on a platform more than 3 years old.

Edited June 22, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[aaaantoine]

Do it on any vehicle based on a platform more than 3 years old.

Well crap, that qualifies every car except Kappa (Solstice, Sky), the Corvette/XLR, and GMT900 (Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, Escalade EXT, Escalade ESV).

[Drew Dowdell]

Well crap, that qualifies every car except Kappa (Solstice, Sky), the Corvette/XLR, and GMT900 (Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, Escalade EXT, Escalade ESV).

900s, Kappas, Sigmas, Deltas, Thetas <= 3 years old

360s, Epsilons, W-bodies, G-bodys, Mini-vans, >= 3 years old

[evok]

Why don't we just leave the decision to GM and add the incentives where they need to reduce inventory for the model change over! Their inventoryies for the most part were slightly below where they were last year as of the endo of May.

[Newbiewar]

Just Announced...Chrysler to begin employee discount to everyone beginning July 1st. Will GM follow suit, or risk further market share loss? What options are available besides a similar brand eroding program? In my opinion, of course, the answer is Return to Greatness. Most likely, according to sources is Zero for 72. Any other suggestions?

Buickman

0 for 72 would do wonders, without damaging actual sale price...

GM had record revenue 1rst quarter because of GMT900 and new marketing stratagy...

the average owner doesnt keep their vehicles for more then 2-3 years anyway so GM doesnt really lose that much money by offering 0%... its better then 4k$+ rebates

[evok]

Do the math.

0% = about $1,000/y over the life of the loan on a $25,000 vehicle.

[Flybrian]

0% got us to trade up into the Bonneville from a Regal GS. We did the math and ended up getting a better car for the same 'price.' It does work and its a great deal.

[Drew Dowdell]

Do the math.

0% = about $1,000/y over the life of the loan on a $25,000 vehicle.

If it makes people trade in their cars more often....doesn't the math work out?

I'd trade up to a 900 Avalanche if I could get the 0% on it...

[evok]

"the average owner doesnt keep their vehicles for more then 2-3 years anyway so GM doesnt really lose that much money by offering 0%... its better then 4k$+ rebates."

That was the statement.

It actually does cost the OEM losts of money to offer 0%.

Particularly today when the average loan is in the area of 60 months.

So this is what they do:

That is why recent offers are either X amount of dollars cash back or 0% for a limited time.

The manufacturers are not stupid. They, for the most part, make the terms of 0% equal the cash back.

And as stated above it depends on the customer and how much they are putting down to which deal works out better for them.

Edited June 22, 2006 by evok

[regfootball]

Well crap, that qualifies every car except Kappa (Solstice, Sky), the Corvette/XLR, and GMT900 (Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Yukon, Yukon XL, Escalade, Escalade EXT, Escalade ESV).

ROTFLMAO!!!

[regfootball]

0% is not always the best thing. most customers would be better off taking a bigger rebate and keeping the loan payoff/balance lower in case you need to unload the vehicle.

[CaddyXLR-V]

900s, Kappas, Sigmas, Deltas, Thetas <= 3 years old

360s, Epsilons, W-bodies, G-bodys, Mini-vans,  >= 3 years old

CTS came out early 02, that would make Sigma 4 years old.

[Drew Dowdell]

CTS came out early 02, that would make Sigma 4 years old.

fine, it needs the help anyway

[Mr.Krinkle]

The manufacturers are not stupid.  They, for the most part, make the terms of 0% equal the cash back.

And as stated above it depends on the customer and how much they are putting down to which deal works out better for them.

yup. im inclined to agree. some people rather have some extra cash in their pocket when they leave, others rather a lower monthly payment.

the thing is though that most people wont buy a car if they dont want it no matter how much cash back incentive. itll get some to maybe buy that new car sooner than they want. or maybe consider something they heard was ok and have been meaning to "check out".

these options just afford people another choice to see what worksd out better for them financially. for gm and anyone else it just about evens out.

[evok]

fine, it needs the help anyway

Are you so sure?

Sales are only down y-t-d May 2005 by 3000 units. That is after a huge inflation of sales after the Employee for all last June and July. That alone inflated the sales by about 3000 sales where sales dropped in August of 2005 because of the pull ahead and lack of inventory.

[evok]

yup.  im inclined to agree.  some people rather have some extra cash in their pocket when they leave,  others rather a lower monthly payment.

the thing is though that most people wont buy a car if they dont want it no matter how much cash back incentive.  itll get some to maybe buy that new car sooner than they want.  or maybe consider something they heard was ok and have been meaning to "check out".

these options just afford people another choice to see what worksd out better for them financially.  for gm and anyone else it just about evens out.

True - there is only a pool of about 17 million buyers a year, subtract out fleets and commercial buyers, the volume drops. Today with all the competition, all the OEMs are doing is attempting to repackage "X" amount of dollar in different ways to draw those real buyers into the showroom. In plain text it is a gimmick.

Say what you will and I am sure the BM will, Zero Percent after 911 and Employee for all last Summer were brilliant marketing moves. I can be argued that they worked too well because of the pull aheads but they did keep the industry moving and sure as hell moved the product out of inventory. Last summer broke all records for the industry in moving product.

As I have said many times, incentives too a degree are built into the MSRP of the program. The marketing and draw to the public is all about how those allocated dollars are packaged.

And this is most certainly true when the manufacturers product cannot sell itself.

Most of the domestic brand products!

Edited June 22, 2006 by evok

[Guest buickman]

True - there is only a pool of about 17 million buyers a year, subtract out fleets and commercial buyers, the volume drops.  Today with all the competition, all the OEMs are doing is attempting to repackage "X" amount of dollar in different ways to draw those real buyers into the showroom.  In plain text it is a gimmick.

Say what you will and I am sure the BM will, Zero Percent after 911 and Employee for all last Summer were brilliant marketing moves.  I can be argued that they worked too well because of the pull aheads but they did keep the industry moving and sure as hell moved the product out of inventory.  Last summer broke all records for the industry in moving product.

As I have said many times, incentives too a degree are built into the MSRP of the program.  The marketing and draw to the public is all about how those allocated dollars are packaged.

And this is most certainly true when the manufacturers product cannot sell itself.

Most of the domestic brand products!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zero after 911, "Keep America Rolling", was indeed a great program. GMS on the other hand was a disaster from the beginning. It was quite funny watching the self proclaimed heros beat their chests knowing full well that the future would be destroyed in terms of sales and profits for both GM and the dealer body. IMO GMS was the worst marketing effort in the corporation's history, having done virtually irrepairable damage to the image of General Motors.

Buickman

Edited June 22, 2006 by buickman

[Mr.Krinkle]

no, money down.

(note the comma)

learned that trick from an attorney.

[CSpec]

no, money down.

(note the comma)

learned that trick from an attorney.

Mr Hutz?

[aaaantoine]

Bart: "It says here on your card that you work on contingency"

Card: Works on Contingency. No money down.

Hutz: "Let me see that."

*Hutz makes adjustments to the card*

Card: Works on Contingency? No, money down.

[ShadowDog]

Eh, let's try something new.

"Let it ride."

[evok]

IMO GMS was the worst marketing effort in the corporation's history, having done virtually irrepairable damage to the image of General Motors.

Buickman

Please if you will elaborate as to why GMS caused virtually irrepairable damage to GMs image. Paritcularly in light that both F and DCX used it at the time. Not only that DCX reconstituted the program. Why would it hurt only GM and not F and DCX.

BTW - Please supply us with good info and not more IMO. I have already run the numbers. I am ready. I am just giving you a chance to supply the board with solid info. And please do not post the 10 billion loss in 2005. You have not even read the 10k to justify your statement that you have used in the past. Just saving you the trouble. That is all.

Edited June 22, 2006 by evok

[regfootball]

GM's ad campaigns are like Paris Hilton. It always creates a buzz and gives you something to talk about. And in GM's case, the resluts are usually like Paris Hilton too. The marketing schemes they concoct generate lots of attention and put out quite well.

From a marketing standpoint, GM has come out with some brilliant and effective campaigns. Do they tarnish the image of GM? Hard to say. Some think Paris Hilton is still sweet and innocent and others think she is trash.

In GM's case, its not the marketing programs that have sullied the image of the cars and company, its the product itself.

It really simple. And Buickman, you ought to know this, if the damn car is overpriced vs. what the CONSUMER thinks its worth relative to anything else they can buy, then you just won't sell a lot. So you can try to preserve high MSRP and dealer margins all you want. But it ain't gonna do jack for you if no one is buying the car. Conversely, if they put incentives out on it, and it gets the price in line with what the consumer thinks its worth, then you are gonna sell assloads of them.

All the while, GM itself is trying hold the price of what it sells its cars to the dealer for. Considering how GM cheaps out on its content and quality in many areas already, I assume they are cutting their own margins to the bone. So then dealer margin likely ends up getting cut to keep the MSRP palatable to the consumer, but still keeping GM having a chance to make profit itself on the car.

So what everyone is forgetting here is the CONSUMER ultimately sets a fair price or average value for the car. Simply put, if the car was better it could be sold for more money and conceivable better profits for the dealer and GM. The incentives and marketing supports are needed to push dated and inferior product because people will buy something else otherwise.

I am case in point. Would I buy an Aztek if it weren't so damn cheap? yeah i would have loved something else, but the MSRP was over 26 grand and after all my GM rebates and incentives I paid 16 grand for it.

Either update the vehicle so folks want it or you gotta throw cash on the hood to move it. If I were a dealer I would stop my pissing and moaning about 'dealer margins' and spend more effort giving proper feedback to the decision makers at GM about what can be done to make the cars themsleves more attractive.

[Newbiewar]

i've heard near the end of july GM is going to announce 0% on everything except GMT900 & corvete... (at least for chevy)

[97regalGS]

Please if you will elaborate as to why GMS caused virtually irrepairable damage to GMs image.  Paritcularly in light that both F and DCX used it at the time.  Not only that DCX reconstituted the program.  Why would it hurt only GM and not F and DCX.

BTW - Please supply us with good info and not more IMO.  I have already run the numbers.  I am ready.  I am just giving you a chance to supply the board with solid info.  And please do not post the 10 billion loss in 2005.  You have not even read the 10k to justify your statement that you have used in the past.  Just saving you the trouble.  That is all.

BM is kinda like Maverick. he won't engage.

I, like many others, having been waiting months now for a sane and rational 'discussion' between BM and the likes of evok and a few others. a discussion that doesn't end up in name calling, goofy song writing and self-proclomation. but it just never happens.

BM, either step up to the plate and engage in an debate, or take you bat and glove and go home.

[Mr.Krinkle]

the fact of the matter is people who want to get a car, especially a domestic didnt have any excuses when these deal came into play.after 911 and last summers blow out. the only people that had anything negative to say already viewed detriot as irrelevant or substandard, so really does anyone think they lost potential sales because someone was so offended by a good deal?

i guess it could be miscontstrued but not by anyone that was even remotely considering one of these cars in the first place.

9 out of 10 times theyll get you coming and going. these deals are almost the equivalent to throwing all your cards on the table. again, to a lot of people these cars hardly sell themselves. they arent all bad, but for the right price, yeah, ill listen for a moment.

no ones not gonna buy the apples or bottle of water thats on sale because they lowered the price. or the tv or the radio or microwave. i dont understand the negativity that some people rather focus on.

the only irreparable damage done is by perpetuating some false idealogy that if its cheaper it must be bad. just my opinion.

[Newbiewar]

the fact of the matter is people who want to get a car, especially a domestic didnt have any excuses when these deal came into play.after 911 and last summers blow out. the only people that had anything negative to say already viewed detriot as irrelevant or substandard, so really does anyone think they lost potential sales because someone was so offended by a good deal?

i guess it could be miscontstrued but not by anyone that was even remotely considering one of these cars in the first place.

9 out of 10 times theyll get you coming and going.  these deals are almost the equivalent to throwing all your cards on the table.  again,  to a lot of people these cars hardly sell themselves.  they arent all bad, but for the right price, yeah, ill listen for a moment.

no ones not gonna buy the apples or bottle of water thats on sale because they lowered the price.  or the tv or the radio or microwave.  i dont understand the negativity that some people rather focus on.

the only irreparable damage done is by perpetuating some false idealogy that if its cheaper it must be bad.  just my opinion.

no what was bad is over the term of 6 months customers became accustom to seeing vehicles 8-10k off...

so when a customer walks into a dealership and demands a tahoe for mid 20k$... nothing happens... a customer walks away pissed off and buys a toyota...

when a customer sees 10k off... they are willing to wait till they see it again...

the problem is, the waiting game...

[Mr.Krinkle]

thats cool, and i can understand that from a sales perspective but how many companies wait until christmas or the holiday season to meet their bottom lines?

im not suggesting that this is good in that manner but if someone doesnt want to buy it outright, or wait for it, then they probably didnt want it that badly in the first place. and they wont find it cheaper or comparable anywhere else.

no one is saying oooh a 30k car for 24 or 25k...lets get two, honey.

chances are if you cant afford it all full price, you cant when they knock off a couple grand. theyre just out looking to save a couple bucks.

i cant even imagine the people you have to deal with on a regular basis,--even before these sales extravaganzas-- and im sure this doesnt really help matters much either. it probably only makes your job that much more difficult.

[Guest buickman]

To a retired chief engineer who inquired as to my writing a chapter in his forthcoming book:

Five points of share within six months at a lowered expense structure.

Buickman

"Buickman, Who knows more about selling cars than just about anybody." Jerry Flint, Forbes Magazine

"There is no doubt in my mind that if he were alive today, you would be his first candidate for his Board of Directors. Keep up the good work and let me know how I can contribute to your vision for the future of GM."

Sincerely,

Daniel Durant Merrick (Billy's grandson)

[Newbiewar]

thats cool, and i can understand that from a sales perspective but how many companies wait until christmas or the holiday season to meet their bottom lines?

im not suggesting that this is good in that manner but if someone doesnt want to buy it outright, or wait for it,  then they probably didnt want it that badly in the first place.  and they wont find it cheaper or comparable anywhere else.

no one is saying oooh a 30k car for 24 or 25k...lets get two, honey.

chances are if you cant afford it all full price, you cant when they knock off a couple grand.  theyre just out looking to save a couple bucks. 

i cant even imagine the people you have to deal with on a regular basis,--even before these sales extravaganzas-- and im sure this doesnt really help matters much either.  it probably only makes your job that much more difficult.

you have no idea, how much profit people think we have to work with...

but one thing that i've found as kind of interesting, is that with the new pricing stratagy, it makes a great scapegoat, even tho its true, the new pricing stratagy has adjusted all MSRP downward while the invoice prices have either stayed the same or increased... giving us less profit...

and yea, the people buying these vehicles, generally can afford more, but incentives help them to get out of their current vehicle that they may be upside down on...

[97regalGS]

To a retired chief engineer who inquired as to my writing a chapter in his forthcoming book:

Five points of share within six months at a lowered expense structure.

Buickman

"Buickman, Who knows more about selling cars than just about anybody." Jerry Flint, Forbes Magazine

"There is no doubt in my mind that if he were alive today, you would be his first candidate for his Board of Directors. Keep up the good work and let me know how I can contribute to your vision for the future of GM."

Sincerely,

Daniel Durant Merrick (Billy's grandson)

go toot your own horn somewhere else. once again, your comment contributed 'nothing' to this thread.

[Flybrian]

BM is kinda like Maverick. he won't engage.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[91z4me]

To a retired chief engineer who inquired as to my writing a chapter in his forthcoming book:

Five points of share within six months at a lowered expense structure.

Buickman

"Buickman, Who knows more about selling cars than just about anybody." Jerry Flint, Forbes Magazine

"There is no doubt in my mind that if he were alive today, you would be his first candidate for his Board of Directors. Keep up the good work and let me know how I can contribute to your vision for the future of GM."

Sincerely,

Daniel Durant Merrick (Billy's grandson)

I am pretty sure evok has some comments about Billy Durant that you may not like. I remember him hinting to that effect when Josh started calling himself "a young Billy Durant."

[CARBIZ]

GM is always doing some kind of promotion, whether it is something as audaceous as Employee Pricing, or "under the radar" stuff like direct offers to existing customers (Oldsmobile Loyalty) and "lease pull ahead" programs.

THESE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TOOLS FOR A SALESPERSON TO USE OR IGNORE.

It still takes a good salesperson to slow the customer down, get them off price and to SELL the vehicle.

You'd all be happy to know that I have a thick dossier of articles and links that I have copied from C&G, so that when a customer declares that the SS Cobalt isn't a Civic (happened to me the other day), I can happily reply,"And that is a good thing." I can show them about Honda and Toyota's lying abouth their hp numbers, about how Toyota has had more recalls (as a percentage of vehicles on the road) than GM and Ford.

This is called SELLING.

The only thing I truly HATE are the stupid newspaper print ads that GM (and everyone else!) run. You know, you've seen them: $169 a month, for 60 months with $1,500 down. First of all, you gotta break it to the customer that the $1,500 is actually $4,000 on delivery (no joke!) and then the advertised vehicle is a 5 spd with no air. Let me tell you, a customer on a $169 payment does not have $4,000. THey just walk out.

Kia and Hyundai are worse in our market: they advertise the same $169 and say NO MONEY DOWN, but, in fact, want nearly $2,000 up front.

This type of advertising is counter productive and just STUPID.

[Mr.Krinkle]

whats the line from glengary glenross...

a man doesnt walk on the lot unlest he wants to buy?

its f*ck or walk.

hit the bricks.

whats my name? f*ck you, thats my name.

that was a good movie about moving real estate, but still about selling anything.

the movie boiler room ripped from it big time. anyway i digress, gotta sell those cars no matter what they throw at you. people can be talked into just about almost anything. thats a fact jack.

[evok]

I am pretty sure evok has some comments about Billy Durant that you may not like.  I remember him hinting to that effect when Josh started calling himself "a young Billy Durant."

Oh I see the Durant appeal to the BM.

Durant's middle name was Crapo.

Though he might not know it is pronounced CrApo not crapo.

I just hope he does not die poor handing our bowling shoes like Durant. For his family's sake at least.

Edited June 23, 2006 by evok

[Guest buickman]

whats the line from glengary glenross...

a man doesnt walk on the lot unlest he wants to buy?

its f*ck or walk. 

hit the bricks.

whats my name? f*ck you, thats my name.

that was a good movie about moving real estate, but still about selling anything.

the movie boiler room ripped from it big time.  anyway i digress,  gotta sell those cars no matter what they throw at you.  people can be talked into just about almost anything.  thats a fact jack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First place, a new Cadillac. Second place, a set of steak knives. Third place, you're fired.

[NOS2006]

First place, a new Cadillac. Second place, a set of steak knives. Third place, you're fired.

I'm sorry, but you forgot to mention yourself: First place, you're an idiot.

..or does that just go without saying?

Edited June 23, 2006 by NOS2006

[Guest buickman]

I'm sorry, but you forgot to mention yourself: First place, you're an idiot.

..or does that just go without saying?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More great lines:

My watch costs more than your car, that's who I am.

Put that coffee down, the coffee is for closers.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

More great lines:

My watch costs more than your car, that's who I am.

Put that coffee down, the coffee is for closers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My advice for you:

[NOS2006]

More great lines:

My watch costs more than your car, that's who I am.

Put that coffee down, the coffee is for closers.

I don't drink coffee.

Damn, your watch was $20k? You overpaid.

Edited June 23, 2006 by NOS2006

[Drew Dowdell]

Please don't feed the trolls

[NOS2006]

[CaddyXLR-V]

Please don't feed the trolls

We need a sign that says that, like when you go to the zoo.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

We need a sign that says that, like when you go to the zoo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ye ask, ye shall recieve. (Sort of.)

Buickman wins the following award:

Edited June 23, 2006 by YellowJacket894

[CaddyXLR-V]

Ye ask, ye shall recieve.

Thats great. One request though, can you put it in a cage and put a $20,000 watch on it? Edited June 23, 2006 by CaddyXLR-V