Chevrolet News:Chevy Estimated Range for Silverado EV Work Truck Raised to 450 miles

[Drew Dowdell]

When Chevrolet initially took the wraps off the Silverado EV last year, GM had estimated up to a 400 mile range based on its own calculations.  As the Silverado EV has made its way through development, it went for EPA certification and came back with 50 miles more than GM's estimate.  With this new EPA certification, the Silverado EV has an over 100-mile advantage over its only on-sale competitor the F-150 Lightning Extended Range (320 miles). The Silverado EV will launch first in WT trim with this 450-mile range in the next few weeks. Soon after, a less expensive WT model will launch with a 350-mile range.  All Silverado EVs will be available with DC Fast Charging up to 350kW with the ability to take on 100 miles of range in as few as 10 minutes.  WT models will have 510 horsepower and 615 lb.-ft of torque.

Following up sometime in the fall of 2023 will be the RST First Edition model with a currently estimated 400-mile range. We say "currently" because the RST is said to be available with the same 200kW battery pack in the WT, but also gets a significant power boost to 754 horsepower and 786 lb.-ft of torque in WOW mode, so we'll need to wait till it gets back from the EPA.

Naturally, these ratings will translate directly into the GMC Sierra Denali EV as well.

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[ccap41]

That's some impressive range! This has to have Ford scrambling.

[G. David Felt]

Very excited for what GM will do for the full size SUVs to come. I am hoping the Escalade EV launch will be this range or more.

[Drew Dowdell]

12 minutes ago, David said:

Very excited for what GM will do for the full size SUVs to come. I am hoping the Escalade EV launch will be this range or more.

It's unlikely to be more. An Escalade ESV would be heavier, and 200kW is a LOT of batteries.  Apparently, they can go up to 212kW on this platform, but that is only available in the GMC Hummber EV Edition 1 at this time.  So even with the 212kW pack, the extra weight of an ESV would keep you at 400 miles max, and possibly less.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's unlikely to be more. An Escalade ESV would be heavier, and 200kW is a LOT of batteries.  Apparently, they can go up to 212kW on this platform, but that is only available in the GMC Hummer EV Edition 1 at this time.  So even with the 212kW pack, the extra weight of an ESV would keep you at 400 miles max, and possibly less.

True valid points, but then this surprise 50 extra miles tends to lead me to believe that GM is being ultra-Conservative on the Ultium battery packs and motors. I would not be surprised as they get more data on the existing EVs to see them tune the controllers giving more range under normal conditions and better estimates under load / trailering.

[smk4565]

$80,000 is a lot for a work truck, but they may already have commercial fleet buyers lined up.   Question is still how fast GM can scale these EV's up, analysts are predicting 76,000 this year which are mostly Bolts and about 328,000 next year.  Although that probably puts them ahead of any of the Asian brands.

[Drew Dowdell]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

$80,000 is a lot for a work truck, but they may already have commercial fleet buyers lined up.   Question is still how fast GM can scale these EV's up, analysts are predicting 76,000 this year which are mostly Bolts and about 328,000 next year.  Although that probably puts them ahead of any of the Asian brands.

You're the second person to mention $80k (the other was on Facebook).  Where are you getting that number?  The base truck with a 350-mile range was originally going to be $39,995 + delivery, only the top level 4WT will be $79k. I don't expect it will release at that price after 18 months of inflation, but even at 7% inflation, it's still at $42,700. I can see consumer-grade "LT" models clocking in at around $80k base and going up from there. I expect the Trailboss to be mid-80s.  Going from an LT to a Trailboss costs about $5k in ICE models..

 

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're the second person to mention $80k (the other was on Facebook).  Where are you getting that number?  The base truck with a 350-mile range was originally going to be $39,995 + delivery, only the top level 4WT will be $79k. I don't expect it will release at that price after 18 months of inflation, but even at 7% inflation, it's still at $42,700. I can see consumer-grade "LT" models clocking in at around $80k base and going up from there. I expect the Trailboss to be mid-80s.  Going from an LT to a Trailboss costs about $5k in ICE models..

 

$79,800 is for the 450 mile WT and $74,800 for the 350 mile WT and those are fleet only pricing, not for retail.  Retail customers only get the $100k RST this year.  I don't think we will ever see a sub $45k Silverado EV.  I don't see how they get a $74,000 retail truck down to $40k, even if you cut the battery down to 250 mile range, that is what, $10,000 worth?

So the question is where will the Cybertruck price out?  If Tesla beats Ford and GM on price, it is kind of game over for Ford and GM.

[oldshurst442]

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So the question is where will the Cybertruck price out?

Good question.

But if we go with Tesla precedence and not with Musk's lyin' words, the Cybertruck will probably be priced ABOVE GM and Ford...

32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If Tesla beats Ford and GM on price, it is kind of game over for Ford and GM.

And a big NO to that regardless of where the Cybertruck is priced at.

And do you know why?

Ive ranted about this sort of thing on another thread.  Its about normalizng EVs.  Not subjuctating them to some irrelevant childish toy.   

Childish toy.

 

The Ford Lightning has a plethora of actual work truck related features that NORMALIZE it as a legit electric vehicle work truck...

If Elon wasnt so gung ho about saying that he wants to re-invent the pick-up truck, the Cyber truck works PERFECTLY as a childish toy for the rich folk.  But the Cybertruck is NOT about BEING a childish toy you see.  It is suppose to BE a legit work truck meant to revolutionize the American pick-up truck...

The thing is, Ford actually put some thought into it and actually DID revolutionize the pick-up truck by NORMALIZING the Ligntning by it looking like an actual vehicle with some gosh darnit features...

If Elon didnt go with a shock value design and Elon never went with useless with bullet proof windows for a work truck that didnt actually do any bullet proofing as per the ONLY advertising reveal it did and had  Elon KEPT the stainless steel body and the some sort of magic frame and FOCUSED on ACTUALLY revolutionizing the work truck and put some thought into it, he would have done it.  And if he actually DONE the Cybertruck as he said he would and actually RELEASING it 2 years ago, he WOULD HAVE HAD a GREAT childish toy.  But he did NONE of those things. ZERO!!! 

And last but not least on my point to make. GM has MORE THAN a couple of electric trucks that will go on sale or that are on sale as of NOW that just do the childish toy a helluva lot better...

 To come shortly

 

Eventually

 

And just newly announced

[smk4565]

The Cybertuck has a bigger bed, much higher payload and 40% higher tow rating than the Silverado EV or F150 Lightning.   Cybertruck also has a smaller turning circle, better off road ability, (looks like better range and acceleration too) Full Self Driving (to whatever level Tesla is at come fall).  Also the Tesla charge network.  

If Tesla beats the competition on price too, that is a big hit to the legacy OEM trucks.  Elon estimated 250-500k units a year, I think that is very doable, and if they do 500k, that is probably Ram, Ford and GM taking a 100-150,000 unit loss each, which will definitely hurt the profits at those companies since that is where all the money comes from.  

I think GM will be okay, Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi, Honda, Mazda, Subaru are the most in danger, Toyota could be in danger, but they do have a mega cash reserve.  But China is basically done with ICE cars and you can get $12,000 EV's there, and Tesla has the #1 selling vehicle in China, so that battle is basically over.  Tesla has the #1 selling vehicle in Europe and the Chinese are going to Europe, VW has enough market there, Stellantis is probably in trouble, Ferrari is worth more than all of Stellantis now, and probably because Ferrari will be here in 20 years and Stellantis won't be.

Tesla could be 25-30% of global sales volume in 2035 with BYD and the other Chinese makers making up 25-30%.    So that leaves legacy auto fighting for about half the current market they have, none of those companies can survive on 50% of their current volume because they have too much overhead, so about half will probably go bankrupt.

[smk4565]

34 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Good question.

But if we go with Tesla precedence and not with Musk's lyin' words, the Cybertruck will probably be priced ABOVE GM and Ford...

And a big NO to that regardless of where the Cybertruck is priced at.

And do you know why?

Ive ranted about this sort of thing on another thread.  Its about normalizng EVs.  Not subjuctating them to some irrelevant childish toy.   

Childish toy.

 

The Ford Lightning has a plethora of actual work truck related features that NORMALIZE it as a legit electric vehicle work truck...

If Elon wasnt so gung ho about saying that he wants to re-invent the pick-up truck, the Cyber truck works PERFECTLY as a childish toy for the rich folk.  But the Cybertruck is NOT about BEING a childish toy you see.  It is suppose to BE a legit work truck meant to revolutionize the American pick-up truck...

The thing is, Ford actually put some thought into it and actually DID revolutionize the pick-up truck by NORMALIZING the Ligntning by it looking like an actual vehicle with some gosh darnit features...

If Elon didnt go with a shock value design and Elon never went with useless with bullet proof windows for a work truck that didnt actually do any bullet proofing as per the ONLY advertising reveal it did and had  Elon KEPT the stainless steel body and the some sort of magic frame and FOCUSED on ACTUALLY revolutionizing the work truck and put some thought into it, he would have done it.  And if he actually DONE the Cybertruck as he said he would and actually RELEASING it 2 years ago, he WOULD HAVE HAD a GREAT childish toy.  But he did NONE of those things. ZERO!!! 

And last but not least on my point to make. GM has MORE THAN a couple of electric trucks that will go on sale or that are on sale as of NOW that just do the childish toy a helluva lot better...

 To come shortly

 

Eventually

 

And just newly announced

Lot of low volume trucks.  2 Hummer's sold in Q1.  

Also the Tesla Model Y has a better profit margin than a gas Escalade.  How long before the Chevy Blazer EV has a better margin than the Escalade and sells over 1 million units a year?  My guess is never.  And that is what GM, Ford, Toyota, etc are up against.  Making 20% margin on $50,000 electric cars when GM can't even make that on ICE SUVs that are $75-100,000.  And no one can, Tesla beats Mercedes-Benz's operating margin, and Tesla hasn't even fully realized the profits from solar power, mega packs and charging non-Tesla owners to charge at Tesla stations.

[oldshurst442]

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Lot of low volume trucks.  2 Hummer's sold in Q1

0 Cybertrucks were sold tho...

ZERO

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Also the Tesla Model Y has a better profit margin than a gas Escalade.

No it doesnt.

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 How long before the Chevy Blazer EV has a better margin than the Escalade and sells over 1 million units a year?  My guess is never.

Why 1 million?

Tesla does NOT sell 1 million of any unit.

They barely sell 1 million vehicles.

General Motors sells 8 times that. 

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 My guess is never.  And that is what GM, Ford, Toyota, etc are up against.  Making 20% margin on $50,000 electric cars when GM can't even make that on ICE SUVs that are $75-100,000.

You are one confused individual.

Tesla STILL relies on carbon units to make a profit...

Tesla has buyers.  Has a LOT of buyers.   But Tesla hasnt got shyte on efficient production that could maximize profits.  They had to resort to slashing prices and you know what?   THAT cost them DEARLY on profit margin.  Enough that investors started whining...   

But it is what it is...

You keep believing the Mickey Mouse stories of Tesla.  The ONLY reason why Tesla is still operating is because investors have invested BIG TIME on Tesla and cant back down now.  They are hoping apple pie in the sky dreams thatb Elon promised.  They are banking on it.  But reality says otherwise.  They dont have the leadership, the know-how, the products to make a dent on GM, Ford or Toyota.  Let alone VAG and Hyundai.   Market share IS slipping.   And they dont have FRESH product to counter...  The fan club buyers can buy only so much...   A Cybertruck is just a toy.  A crap toy at that as the Hummer, even if only sold 2, will be ramped up...   Its DELIBERATELY been halted.  The demand is there.  The SAME demand that Tesla has got with its Cybertruck.  But the Cybertruck is still in the oven.  And even when it does come out, it WILL have plenty of teething issues as the Cybertruck has NOTHING related to the other EVs Elon sells.  And like usual, the delays will happen...  But...by THAT time, General Motors will have ramped up their EVs...   Coinicidentally, when the Cybertruck is fimally scheduled to come out, so are the GM truck EVs, along with a dozen other EVs...    

Elon reminded us a week ago or so, that the roadster is on again...  

By THAT time, Chevrolet will have sold and delivered AT LEAST  8000 and possibly more E-Rays.   E-Ray is a hybrid.  True.  But when Elon mentioned and showcased the Roadster 2.0, the mid-engined Corvette was still wrapped in mystery and in denial.  I mean NOBODY thought that Chevrolet would EVER engineer a Corvette like that. You know... such a thing as a mid-engined affair let alone an ELECTRIC version of it...

Good Night dude.   Sweet Dreams.  

Edited May 24, 2023 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

54 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Stellantis won't be.

Stellantis sells quite a FEW EVs in Europe.

VW is giving Tesla a run for their money in Europe.  SHYTE... VW I think has Europe's crown in EV sales.  And you wouldnt know it, but Stellantis is hot on their heels...  

So...add things up dude.  Stellantis could very well be in 2nd place in EV sales in Europe while Tesla is in 3rd possibly.  Either way...its a hot race. But Stellantis is NOT hurtin' by ANY stretch. I would argue that its Tesla that is losing the European battle front... 

https://qz.com/stellantis-2022-results-electric-vehicles-fiat-new-500-1850144027

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/22/stellantis-profit-sales-ev-push/

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/among-europes-electric-car-leaders-stellantis-passes-tesla-challenges-vw

 

Just click on the links...   These links are recent.    The oldest being in August of 2022.  The one that states that Stellantis beat Tesla sales and is challenging VW for the crown.    Just so you know...  Stellantis sold 288 000 EVs in Europe... and their profits also rose.  Their EV sales sored 41% CONTRIBUTING to their profits...     Again...do the math... 

Edited May 24, 2023 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

40 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Tesla does NOT sell 1 million of any unit.

They barely sell 1 million vehicles.

General Motors sells 8 times that. 

You are one confused individual.

Tesla STILL relies on carbon units to make a profit...

Tesla has buyers.  Has a LOT of buyers.   But Tesla hasnt got shyte on efficient production that could maximize profits.  They had to resort to slashing prices and you know what?   THAT cost them DEARLY on profit margin.  Enough that investors started whining...   

 

Model Y is on pace to sell over 1 million units this year and surpass the Corolla as #1 selling vehicle in the world. 

GM sold 5.9 million units in 2022, GM is down in China 25% this year, but up in the USA, maybe they hit 6 million and Tesla will be about 2 million.  So GM sells 3 times as many, but Tesla is closing fast, and the next Gen Tesla will sell 4 million units just form 1 model, so with that and Cybertruck Tesla passes GM, Ford, Honda, Nissan, Stellantis in volume by about 2027-28, and maybe they have got VW and Toyota by then, but I would estimate 2030.

Tesla had revenue of 1.87 billion from selling carbon credits in 2022, that is basically pure profit, the company made $12.6 billion in total profit (GM made $9.9 billion).  So about $10.8 Billion is not from carbon credits.  Tesla's operating margin on auto last year was about 17%, highest there is in the auto industry, Mercedes is at 13%,  GM's was 6.3%.  

 

[smk4565]

48 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Stellantis sells quite a FEW EVs in Europe.

VW is giving Tesla a run for their money in Europe.  SHYTE... VW I think has Europe's crown in EV sales.  And you wouldnt know it, but Stellantis is hot on their heels...  

So...add things up dude.  Stellantis could very well be in 2nd place in EV sales in Europe while Tesla is in 3rd possibly.  Either way...its a hot race. But Stellantis is NOT hurtin' by ANY stretch. I would argue that its Tesla that is losing the European battle front... 

https://qz.com/stellantis-2022-results-electric-vehicles-fiat-new-500-1850144027

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/22/stellantis-profit-sales-ev-push/

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/among-europes-electric-car-leaders-stellantis-passes-tesla-challenges-vw

 

Just click on the links...   These links are recent.    The oldest being in August of 2022.  The one that states that Stellantis beat Tesla sales and is challenging VW for the crown.    Just so you know...  Stellantis sold 288 000 EVs in Europe... and their profits also rose.  Their EV sales sored 41% CONTRIBUTING to their profits...     Again...do the math... 

Ferrari sold 13,000 cars last year, and is worth more money than Stellantis, who used to own Ferrari. 

Tesla Model Y is the #1 selling car in Europe in 2023 gas or IV

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/tesla-model-y-was-europes-best-selling-car-in-q1-2023/

Look at the chart

The Dacia, T-Roc, Peugeot, Opel, Yaris, etc are all gas cars, there isn't even an EV in the top 25, besides something like Fiat 500 that is gas and EV.

And Tesla is 16th for brands, but at that growth rate they will easily be top 10 next year and then when the Model 2 (or whatever it is called) comes out and that is probably 250,000 units per quarter in Europe, puts Tesla above VW on that list for #1 overall, not just #1 EV.  VW group if you add Skoda, Audi, Bentley, etc together, that would be tough to beat in Europe, they may keep that crown.  But VW is down 25% this year in China and that is their #2 market, so they are in some trouble there, they need Europe in a bad way.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Cybertuck has a bigger bed, much higher payload and 40% higher tow rating than the Silverado EV or F150 Lightning.   Cybertruck also has a smaller turning circle, better off road ability, (looks like better range and acceleration too) Full Self Driving (to whatever level Tesla is at come fall).  Also the Tesla charge network.

You'd think somebody from the Steel City would understand work trucks utilize  tool boxes as well.  One thing that's impossible with a Cybertruck.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Elon estimated 250-500k units a year, I think that is very doable, and if they do 500k, that is probably Ram, Ford and GM taking a 100-150,000 unit loss each, which will definitely hurt the profits at those companies since that is where all the money comes from.  

There is no way Tesla sells 500,000 Cybertrucks in the US.  Maybe globally, but there is zero chance they move that many here when the D3 all have electric trucks and ICE trucks. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

You'd think somebody from the Steel City would understand work trucks utilize  tool boxes as well.  One thing that's impossible with a Cybertruck.

There is no way Tesla sells 500,000 Cybertrucks in the US.  Maybe globally, but there is zero chance they move that many here when the D3 all have electric trucks and ICE trucks. 

Cybertruck has a frunk, storage space in the rear sail panels and a covered, lockable bed, which by the way is a foot longer than the Lightning’s bed.  
 

I think 500k units a year is doable, especially globally.  Millions of pick ups are sold each year, there are plenty of potential buyers.

[ccap41]

21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think 500k units a year is doable, especially globally.  Millions of pick ups are sold each year, there are plenty of potential buyers.

You also know that most truck buyers are scared of EVs, right? 

I know it's a useless sample size but I don't know anybody who would drive a truck that also would consider an EV at this point. 

I know buyers are out there but 500,000 from ONE of 4 companies all selling electric trucks is a little nuts. 

[Drew Dowdell]

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

$79,800 is for the 450 mile WT and $74,800 for the 350 mile WT and those are fleet only pricing, not for retail.  Retail customers only get the $100k RST this year.  I don't think we will ever see a sub $45k Silverado EV.  I don't see how they get a $74,000 retail truck down to $40k, even if you cut the battery down to 250 mile range, that is what, $10,000 worth?

So the question is where will the Cybertruck price out?  If Tesla beats Ford and GM on price, it is kind of game over for Ford and GM.

You've read a sensationalist article that misinterprets a report from GM Authority.  We already knew that the initial release was only going to be to fleet buyers, and those would be 3WT or 4WT trims only. But those are the two highest WT trims that Chevy will build. As production moves into 2024, the lower-level trims will arrive and get closer (but not hit exactly) that $40k price point.   The article I'm assuming you read, or a variant of such, incorrectly implies that there will not be any Silverado EV trims below 3WT.  You are correct about the price points for those trims, but not that those trims will be the lowest trims available.

Yes, for consumers, only the RST will be available late this year, and likely only the first 100.   I have an RST reserved, but not a launch edition.  However, it's not the RST that I really want. Based on what I've seen so far, I'd want a Premier/LTZ/High Country or equivalent or the Trail Boss depending on what they do to the suspension.

I'm aiming for 400-mile range, air suspension, and if I can swing it, Super Cruise. I don't need crab walk, 4-wheel steering or any of that.  Just a 2025 EV version of my truck would be fine.

[Drew Dowdell]

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Cybertuck has a bigger bed, much higher payload and 40% higher tow rating than the Silverado EV or F150 Lightning.   Cybertruck also has a smaller turning circle, better off road ability, (looks like better range and acceleration too) Full Self Driving (to whatever level Tesla is at come fall).

Tesla has none of that. It's all still vaporware until the official specs are released.

And even already, the Silverado has those vaperware specs beat with its own vaporware specs. The initial RST has a 10,000 lb tow rating, sure, but there will also be a tow package that takes it to 20,000 lbs.

Comparing payloads doesn't tell the whole story.  It's a legal definition rather than a technical one. If the Tesla Cybertruck keeps that 3,500 lbs payload, then it will have to be registered as a Class 3 truck, that's the same as a Silverado HD 3500 or Ford Super Duty F-350.  That's not because of some amazing capabilities but because of its curb weight plus max payload rating.  Having to register the Cybertruck as Class 3 means higher registration costs, higher tolls in many states, higher insurance costs, and higher inspection costs in many states.

There is absolutely ZERO chance that Chevy engineered the Silverado EV to only have a 1,300 lb. payload. That's less than a Colorado.  It's a sticker compliance rating so that buyers can register it as a Class 2, the same as a Silverado 1500.   How do I know this?  That the work truck will eventually be available with a 20,000 lb tow package gives it away.  Towing requirements dictate that the tow hitch supports 10% of the trailer weight and 10% of 20,000 is 2,000. 2,000 is higher than the 1,300 lb. current payload rating of the RST.

This tells me that all Chevy needs to do to make an HD version of the Silverado EV is swap out some badges and the GVWR compliance stickers.

Chevy Silverado Payload Capacity Chart
Year	Silverado 1500	Silverado 2500HD	Silverado 3500HD
2020-2021	1,750-2,280 pounds	3,614-3,900 pounds	4,353-4,572 pounds
2019	1,745-2,543 pounds	2,968-3,435 pounds	3,283-6,137 pounds
2017-2018	1,739-2,018 pounds	2,968-3,559 pounds	3,283-4,415 pounds
2016	1,734-1,990 pounds	2,967-3,559 pounds	3,305-6,288 pounds
2015	1,738-2,011 pounds	2,975-3,583 pounds	3,305-6,288 pounds

Wonder why payload capacity went down on the newer trucks? It's not because the trucks got less capable, it's because their curb weight went up. GM had to down-rate them to maintain their legal classification.  This is true across the industry.

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Lot of low volume trucks.  2 Hummer's sold in Q1.

You've been told about this. Hummer had a stop sale while a battery issue was addressed. There are people still on the Hummer waiting list and deliveries have resumed.

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cybertruck has a frunk, storage space in the rear sail panels and a covered, lockable bed, which by the way is a foot longer than the Lightning’s bed.

Lighting has a frunk (much larger than Tesla's), Silverado and Sierra both have a frunk and lockable storage. Silverado has a mid-gate. Locking beds are an option on all of them.  As a truck owner, I can tell you there isn't much difference in a 5.5 to a 6.5 bed. In either case, long items will have to travel with the tailgate down.  Bed length doesn't matter much in the incremental units until you hit 8 foot and can fit a full sheet of plywood back there and still close the gate.   Something the Silverado can do with a short bed beacuse it has a mid-gate that the Cybertruck doesn't.   For example, in the Lightning, Silverado EV, or Cybertruck I'd have to leave the tailgate down on all three to transport my motorcycle (7 feet) in the bed. So I'd rather take the more maneuverable and shorter bed.

 

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think 500k units a year is doable, especially globally.  Millions of pick ups are sold each year, there are plenty of potential buyers.

Do you really think people like my parents, who have been buying F-series pickups since the 1970s, are going to buy a funky-looking aluminum doorstop instead of going back to the Ford dealer?  F-150 and Silverado/Sierra, and even Ram have some of the best brand retention in the US market.  Cybertruck may win sales from newcomers to the truck market who are trading in a Telluride or X5, but I don't think Tesla will make many inroads into the legacy truck makers.  Do I think Cybertruck will sell? Yes... but not at those numbers.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

You also know that most truck buyers are scared of EVs, right? 

I know it's a useless sample size but I don't know anybody who would drive a truck that also would consider an EV at this point. 

I know buyers are out there but 500,000 from ONE of 4 companies all selling electric trucks is a little nuts. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You've read a sensationalist article that misinterprets a report from GM Authority.  We already knew that the initial release was only going to be to fleet buyers, and those would be 3WT or 4WT trims only. But those are the two highest WT trims that Chevy will build. As production moves into 2024, the lower-level trims will arrive and get closer (but not hit exactly) that $40k price point.   The article I'm assuming you read, or a variant of such, incorrectly implies that there will not be any Silverado EV trims below 3WT.  You are correct about the price points for those trims, but not that those trims will be the lowest trims available.

Yes, for consumers, only the RST will be available late this year, and likely only the first 100.   I have an RST reserved, but not a launch edition.  However, it's not the RST that I really want. Based on what I've seen so far, I'd want a Premier/LTZ/High Country or equivalent or the Trail Boss depending on what they do to the suspension.

I'm aiming for 400-mile range, air suspension, and if I can swing it, Super Cruise. I don't need crab walk, 4-wheel steering or any of that.  Just a 2025 EV version of my truck would be fine.

There are 4 WT trims? So the trim line for the Silverado EV will be:

1WT

2WT

3WT

4WT

1LT

2LT

3LT

4LT

High Country

Trail Boss

RST

Holy complexity Batman!

[ccap41]

While that does sound like a ton of different trims/models, my best guess would be 1-4 of both WT and LT would be solely based on battery and drive wheels.

small battery - 2WD - 1WT/LT

big battery - 2WD - 2WT/LT

small battery - 4WD - 3WT/LT

big battery - 4WD - 4WT/LT

I could also be 100% wrong and it wouldn't be the first time! 

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 

Do you really think people like my parents, who have been buying F-series pickups since the 1970s, are going to buy a funky-looking aluminum doorstop instead of going back to the Ford dealer?  F-150 and Silverado/Sierra, and even Ram have some of the best brand retention in the US market.  Cybertruck may win sales from newcomers to the truck market who are trading in a Telluride or X5, but I don't think Tesla will make many inroads into the legacy truck makers.  Do I think Cybertruck will sell? Yes... but not at those numbers.

If the Cybertruck has more range, more acceleration, FSD, better handling, tighter turning radius, large bed, and all the stuff they promise, and deliver it at a price that is equal or less the competition then yes people will buy it.  The Model Y outsells the Rav4 now, so much for Toyota loyalty, people fled for the better product.  And that is a case when the Tesla costs a lot more money, imagine if it was dollar for dollar even.

The full size truck market in the USA is about 2 million units, mid-size is probably another million.  I read the global pickup market was about 4.8 million last year.  Even if 10% of global truck market goes to Cybertruck then they hit 500,000.  Now I don't know how many countries they will sell it in, but even if they just sell it in the USA and get 20% of the truck market, they can hit 500k units.  

Probably no one thought the #1 selling vehicle in Europe would be an American car, because people said Europeans will never buy a car form the USA.  But Tesla proved that wrong. 

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

There are 4 WT trims? So the trim line for the Silverado EV will be:

1WT

2WT

3WT

4WT

1LT

2LT

3LT

4LT

High Country

Trail Boss

RST

Holy complexity Batman!

The ICE Silverado today has:

4 engines, 2 transmissions, 5 bed/cab configurations, and 2 driveline configurations. (5 engines were available in 2022, the V6 was finally dropped from WT models)

It has 8 trims (WT, Custom, Custom Trail Boss, LT, RST, LT Trail Boss, LTZ, ZR2, High Country). Plus each of those trims have levels, like several levels of WT, the ZR2 Bison Edition, Several editions of LT, Sub-packages like Z71.

Ford has even more with 8 trims, 3 cabs paired with 3 boxes, 2 drivelines, and I can't even get a clear answer on how many engines. (3.3 V6, 2.7 EB V6, 3.5 EB V6, 5.0 V8, 3.5-Hybrid, 3.5 HO V6 Raptor, 5.2 V8 Supercharged... the 3.0 V6 diesel was dropped, did I miss any?) and while all transmissions are 10-speed, they have a light-duty version, a heavy duty version (V8s and Raptor), and the hybrid version, so really it's 3 different transmissions. 

At the risk of beating a dead horse, Ram has 8 trims, 4 engines, several suspensions including air and not-air, 4 different sizes of infotainment system, several "special editions" that Ram loves to make.... and the Ram Classic is also still in production with a bunch of its own configurations.

Nissan simplifies it for you by only offering trims configured certain ways, and if you don't like it, too bad. Before you even get to pick out a color, you have 17 different trim/bed/cab/driveline configurations to choose from. Luckily, you have only one choice of engine. 

Your list would be significantly less complex than the current situation.  That said, I expect that the LT levels might be trimmed a bit, down to 2 or three. For example, LTZ might be dropped completely in favor of a High Country trim. Or we might not get a High Country at all. (though I hope we do)

[oldshurst442]

32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

and all the stuff they promise,

Musk's mouth is known to write checks his a$$ cant cash.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

41 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

While that does sound like a ton of different trims/models, my best guess would be 1-4 of both WT and LT would be solely based on battery and drive wheels.

small battery - 2WD - 1WT/LT

big battery - 2WD - 2WT/LT

small battery - 4WD - 3WT/LT

big battery - 4WD - 4WT/LT

I could also be 100% wrong and it wouldn't be the first time! 

The flexibility of Ultium means that they can offer "city" version of these trucks for a lower price.  If I'm a commercial fleet master and Chevy can offer me a bunch of 2WD work trucks in 2WT trim with a 300 mile range that I never have to fuel and cut my maintenance costs way down, I think I'd seriously consider it.  We have four 2wd V6 Ram Classics at work, but they almost never leave the 11 sq miles of the town. If I stay there long enough, I want to convince the public works director to put chargers in soon. 

GM never said what the lowest range of battery they would build for these trucks would be, it's always been shown as "up to" 400 miles, now 450 miles, of range. 

[Drew Dowdell]

You went to so much effort to construct… what is an opinion… in only the most technical sense of the word. It is almost entirely ?.

Eventually, cost and physics will catch up with Elon's promises. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

If the Cybertruck has more range

The most range the Model X can manage is 348 miles. The Cybertruck is heavier and has much worse aero. Tesla will need to put nearly 100% more battery in the Cybertruck to get it to 500 miles. Can you imagine the costs of a double stacked Model X battery? It's not going to be the $70k version that gets that range, it's going to be the $130k version. GM will have 450 miles of range available in a truck at the bottom end of the Cybertruck's price range. For $80k, you'll be able to get a Silverado EV with 450 miles of range or a Cybertruck with likely around 350 or less. 

 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

more acceleration

And just like on the Model-X, if you opt for the Plaid, you get a reduction in range... so Cybertruck won't be both 500 mile range and 2.9s acceleration. It will be one or the other. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

FSD

A $15k option. SuperCruise and BlueCruise are like $2,500. 

 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

better handling

It's a truck, who cares? And GM has magnaride, the best shocks on the planet.

 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

tighter turning radius

GM has 4-wheel steering and even their ICE trucks turn well for their size. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

large bed

Already explained why unless it's an 8-foot bed, it doesn't matter. GM and eventually RAM win on this anyway because they have mid-gates.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The Model Y outsells the Rav4 now, so much for Toyota loyalty, people fled for the better product.  And that is a case when the Tesla costs a lot more money, imagine if it was dollar for dollar even.

RAV-4 sales are up and there's waiting lists for the Plug-in. If you want to know who the Model-Y is stealing sales from, go look at the BMW and Mercedes sedan sales charts. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

if they just sell it in the USA and get 20% of the truck market, they can hit 500k units

LOL, they're not going to get 20% of the US market with a $70k base price.  Keep in mind that "the truck market" includes the Tacoma, Ranger, Colorado, and Canyon which base in the high $20k range.  You can buy two Tacomas for the price of one base Cybertruck. 

 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Probably no one thought the #1 selling vehicle in Europe would be an American car, because people said Europeans will never buy a car form the USA.  But Tesla proved that wrong.

No one tell the Europeans, they've been buying Fords for years. The catch is that Europeans buy European Fords that are built in Europe.  Tesla's explosion in sales there coincided with the construction of Berlin-Brandenburg.  It also helps that EVs avoid the fuel taxes. The Euro companies are going to catch up to Tesla pretty easily. 

[oldshurst442]

GM also has 

  to counter @smk4565's wild claims of 'if' Cybertruck has better handling.

Musk didnt think of crab walk.

Like I said... He could have had an awesome toy AND and awesome truck had he put SERIOUS thought into revolutionizng American pick-up trucks.  AND...he could have all THAT 2 years prior.  He didnt.  He let his ego and hubris dictate but alas, his mouth writes checks that his a$$ cant cash.  And so GM beat him to the punch...   

So...GM comes along with a HUMMER EV and makes for a BETTER toy.

GM takes this classic bad boy that GM make into a toy

then adds the smaller version of said toy

Both that were HUGE successes I might add and creates to ressurect the EV version

But GM also KNOWS what truck buyers NEED so GM continues on IMPROVING their work trucks and ADDS crab walk TO their work trucks and crab walk now becomes a USEFUL tool in the workplace AND for offroading...  

But GM is not done...  GM out-Musks'  ludicrousness by adding FREEDOM mode

 

Tesla has the right stuff as we speak.  And is selling like crazy.  HAs been selling like crazy since Tesla has been selling EVs. 

But...everybody is gonna be sellin' NEW EVs soon enough.  GREAT EVs.  Tesla has to contend with dated models. Albiet their cars are great technologically, their cars suffer from age and quality.  And Musk hasnt announced ANY 2nd generation of ANY of its vehicles.   Aside from the roadster but roadster's mean nothing when Porsche, Corvette Ferrari and all others are about to enter the EV zone...    Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche ALL have brand recognition and their performance numbers  equal Tesla's whether ICE or EV so moot point...

Tesla has to contend with dated models.  Refreshes wont cut it when BRAND new CUVs await the car buying public.  Soon enough.  

When Tesla gets 2nd gen versions...the COSTS will shoot up again.  You know...R&D.  Renovations to the production factories to assemble the NEW vehicles...   Tesla is making bank now when the cars are old and the R&D has been paid for.   Lets wait to see the costs go up when NEW tooling is required and see what that does to thier BOTTOM LINE.  And they will NEED to spend R&D money for NEW generations because the Model Y cannot sustain 1 million units as NEW FRESH models from OTHER OEMs arrive.  Its the nature of the automotive business...    

Lets talk about THOSE  'ifs' shall we?    

The 'if' Tesla's 2nd generation of Model S will sell as compared to its competion vis-a-vis what the original Model S accomplished a decade ago.   

The 'if' Tesla's 2nd generation of Model 3 and Y will sell as compared to its competion vis-a-vis what the original Model 3 and Y accomplished almost a decade ago.   And will the Model Y BE a best seller?     

The 'if' Tesla has learned to be efficient in producing WITHOUT quality hiccups with their 2nd generation models.

The 'if' Tesla could get investors to invest untold BILLIONS again with a BLIND eye...

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

Tesla makes a great powertrain... I'll give them that.

But the "This is nice for a mid-level Passat" interior by Ikea and used bar of soap exterior is what kills it for me. 

It's been proven that you can do aero and look amazing.

[smk4565]

46 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Tesla has to contend with dated models.  Refreshes wont cut it when BRAND new CUVs await the car buying public.  Soon enough.  

When Tesla gets 2nd gen versions...the COSTS will shoot up again.  You know...R&D.  Renovations to the production factories to assemble the NEW vehicles...   Tesla is making bank now when the cars are old and the R&D has been paid for.   Lets wait to see the costs go up when NEW tooling is required and see what that does to thier BOTTOM LINE.  And they will NEED to spend R&D money for NEW generations because the Model Y cannot sustain 1 million units as NEW FRESH models from OTHER OEMs arrive.  Its the nature of the automotive business...    

Lets talk about THOSE  'ifs' shall we?    

The 'if' Tesla's 2nd generation of Model S will sell as compared to its competion vis-a-vis what the original Model S accomplished a decade ago.   

The 'if' Tesla's 2nd generation of Model 3 and Y will sell as compared to its competion vis-a-vis what the original Model 3 and Y accomplished almost a decade ago.   And will the Model Y BE a best seller?     

The 'if' Tesla has learned to be efficient in producing WITHOUT quality hiccups with their 2nd generation models.

The 'if' Tesla could get investors to invest untold BILLIONS again with a BLIND eye...

 

The updated Model 3 is coming soon, Model Y update probably next year.  They look pretty ready to go with this.

And part of the update is improving efficiency in manufacturing.  Tesla is also going to 48 volt electric system which will save weight and cost in wiring harnesses.  This car may actually get cheaper with more content added in.

The next gen Model 2 or whatever it will be called, is only going to use 40% the factory space that a Model 3/Y takes to build, auto factory assembly lines are about 30% inefficient, the paint process is inefficient, etc.  Since Tesla will gigacast and build the car in modules, rather than traditional assembly line, it sucks a ton of cost out, thus you get a sub $30,000 Tesla.

And it goes back to the point I have been making.  What will matter in the EV wars is cost and scale.  No one else has Tesla's scale or vertical integration, and no one else has the cost controls.  Others might get there, but it is a race to get there.  The first 5 or 6 that get there will survive, the rest go bankrupt.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The updated Model 3 is coming soon, Model Y update probably next year.  They look pretty ready to go with this.

And part of the update is improving efficiency in manufacturing.  Tesla is also going to 48 volt electric system which will save weight and cost in wiring harnesses.  This car may actually get cheaper with more content added in.

The next gen Model 2 or whatever it will be called, is only going to use 40% the factory space that a Model 3/Y takes to build, auto factory assembly lines are about 30% inefficient, the paint process is inefficient, etc.  Since Tesla will gigacast and build the car in modules, rather than traditional assembly line, it sucks a ton of cost out, thus you get a sub $30,000 Tesla.

And it goes back to the point I have been making.  What will matter in the EV wars is cost and scale.  No one else has Tesla's scale or vertical integration, and no one else has the cost controls.  Others might get there, but it is a race to get there.  The first 5 or 6 that get there will survive, the rest go bankrupt.

 

Oh yes, just what I wanted. A 2024 Saturn SC

 

Tesla hasn't gotten Gigacast fully operational and GM, VW, and several others have gotten those presses too.  It's not a technology that will be unique to Tesla for more than a minute. 

There is a big downside to gigacasting though. It greatly increases the likelihood of a vehicle being totaled in an accident. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Oh yes, just what I wanted. A 2024 Saturn SC

 

Tesla hasn't gotten Gigacast fully operational and GM, VW, and several others have gotten those presses too.  It's not a technology that will be unique to Tesla for more than a minute. 

There is a big downside to gigacasting though. It greatly increases the likelihood of a vehicle being totaled in an accident. 

I have wondered that about how these giga cast vehicles will be repaired.  Rarely do shops replace quarter panels, and if an inner quarter panel is damaged on a car it is probably totaled anyway.  The rear body panel would be interesting because when cars are rear ended semi-hard, it is pretty common to need a rear body panel and perhaps a trunk floor since that metal folds pretty easily.  If the giga-cast cars can't get a floor or rear body put in and you have to replace the back half of the car then it's totaled.  

But EV's have pretty strong salvage value and would be totaled easier than an ICE car anyway.  I'll tell you what is going to total a lot of car in the future is LED headlights and radar cruise sensors unless that costs comes way down.  I wrote an estimate on a 2023 Hyundai Tucson about a month ago, it needed the headlights, DRL lights, bumper, grille, rad support, AC condenser, radiator and the radar sensor.  Was over $12,000 to fix.  When that car is 4 years old, if it hits a deer and breaks all 4 lights, bumper, grill and the radar, it is totaled for not even being that damaged.

Had a Hyundai Elantra yesterday that hit a deer, this is $9k in damage using recycled and aftermarket parts, it was over $12,000 if using OEM parts, in which case it would have been totaled.  

Toyotas, Hondas and Subarus are cheap to fix, but all this other stuff they are making to be disposable anyway, especially if used car values drop back off and the parts prices stay sky high.

[Drew Dowdell]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Had a Hyundai Elantra yesterday that hit a deer, this is $9k in damage using recycled and aftermarket parts, it was over $12,000 if using OEM parts, in which case it would have been totaled.

Gigapress is going to make that so much worse. A small side impact that would normally just bend some suspension bits and maybe an outer fender can total a Tesla.   Some of the anti-EV people we had around this place were right about cars becoming disposable appliances, but it wasn't the EV part that will bring that on... it's the Gigapress.

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Gigapress is going to make that so much worse. A small side impact that would normally just bend some suspension bits and maybe an outer fender can total a Tesla.   Some of the anti-EV people we had around this place were right about cars becoming disposable appliances, but it wasn't the EV part that will bring that on... it's the Gigapress.

And it's insane that vehicles are, by far, more expensive than they've ever been, to just be disposable appliances.

[smk4565]

I wonder if the shift to EV will also shift what vehicles are most profitable to automakers.  Right now pickups are super profitable, but if these big trucks and SUVs need a 200 kWh battery that costs $30,000 compared to a smaller crossover/sedan with a 67 kWh battery that is $10,000, that is a huge gap to overcome from a profit standpoint.  Perhaps car makers and consumers will shift back to smaller vehicles to get range for less money.  And it might be that an Equinox EV could have better profit margins than a Silverado EV.

[G. David Felt]

I have posted so many times in so many threads here that the ExoSkeleton Cyber Truck would have been a game changer. 

Instead, the public will get a Honda Ridgeline competing Unibody pickup that will have a fraction of what Musk has promised.

All flash and no real steal!

[Robert Hall]

On 5/26/2023 at 10:52 PM, David said:

I have posted so many times in so many threads here that the ExoSkeleton Cyber Truck would have been a game changer. 

Instead, the public will get a Honda Ridgeline competing Unibody pickup that will have a fraction of what Musk has promised.

All flash and no real steal!

And all the moronic Tesla fanboys and Elon bootlickers are going to ecstatic about it, claiming it's the greatest truck ever built and will outsell all Detroit trucks...

[smk4565]

7 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

And all the moronic Tesla fanboys and Elon bootlickers are going to ecstatic about it, claiming it's the greatest truck ever built and will outsell all Detroit trucks...

It doesn’t have to outsell them but even if they take 100k sales each from Ford, GM and Ram that will hurt their bottom lines.  Because those companies live off pick up truck profits, Tesla doesn’t have to.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

It doesn’t have to outsell them but even if they take 100k sales each from Ford, GM and Ram that will hurt their bottom lines.  Because those companies live off pick up truck profits, Tesla doesn’t have to.

Again, not only not going to happen at a $70k starting price when F-150 and Silverado 1500 top out at around $80k.

A Cybertruck sale doesn’t mean one of the truck makers lost a sale it can just as easily be an X5.

[smk4565]

On 5/28/2023 at 10:50 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Again, not only not going to happen at a $70k starting price when F-150 and Silverado 1500 top out at around $80k.

A Cybertruck sale doesn’t mean one of the truck makers lost a sale it can just as easily be an X5.

It could be that Cybertruck buyers never had a pickup or wouldn't otherwise have bought a pickup, butI would guess a lot of the sales would come from other pickup buyers, whether it be full size trucks or even Tacoma and Ridgeline.  We don't know the price of the Cybertruck yet either, but it will have that $7500 credit, so that could help it compete, plus no gas compared to the fuel cost of a 20 mpg pickup.  And we don't quite know how FSD might be monetized, Tesla might be able to sell cars at zero margin if their income comes from FSD, software sales, electricity sales, etc.  Lots of unknowns, but will be interesting how it plays out.

[G. David Felt]

On 5/30/2023 at 8:04 PM, smk4565 said:

It could be that Cybertruck buyers never had a pickup or wouldn't otherwise have bought a pickup, butI would guess a lot of the sales would come from other pickup buyers, whether it be full size trucks or even Tacoma and Ridgeline.  We don't know the price of the Cybertruck yet either, but it will have that $7500 credit, so that could help it compete, plus no gas compared to the fuel cost of a 20 mpg pickup.  And we don't quite know how FSD might be monetized, Tesla might be able to sell cars at zero margin if their income comes from FSD, software sales, electricity sales, etc.  Lots of unknowns, but will be interesting how it plays out.

A few statements from both Tesla and Tesla Fan sites. These Cybertruck buyers have never owned a pickup truck. The bulk are new to the pickup truck market. Those that had Cybertruck reservations have become Ford or Rivian Pickup buyers as they got there first. 

Course we the public have no real knowledge of how many refunds have been made to date against the Cybertruck nor how many actual reservations Tesla has.

Tesla on their investment day and battery day have clearly stated that they will start with top end fully equipped Cybertruck orders first, so 6 figure trucks that are no different than a GMC Hummer Pickup or the F150 Lighting Launch edition or what is know as the Launch Edition for the Chevrolet Silverado or GMC Sierra Launch Edition. All 6 figure trucks.

GM and Ford like Rivian will get to 5 figure trucks far faster than Tesla which has proven they truly have NO INTEREST in building cheap EVs. I doubt you will see a Cybertruck below 70-80 thousand dollars before 2026 when GM and Ford as well as Ram will be shipping their commercial EV editions.

On top of this, the Cybertruck will be a FAILURE as it is not a Real Truck but a Unibody Honda Ridgeline competitor that will not be able to haul the bulk of todays 5th wheels and other trailers as it was never designed or intended to support the real truck market.

Yes Tesla Fans will buy it, but the bulk of the truck market will not buy Tesla.

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, David said:

A few statements from both Tesla and Tesla Fan sites. These Cybertruck buyers have never owned a pickup truck. The bulk are new to the pickup truck market. Those that had Cybertruck reservations have become Ford or Rivian Pickup buyers as they got there first. 

Course we the public have no real knowledge of how many refunds have been made to date against the Cybertruck nor how many actual reservations Tesla has.

Tesla on their investment day and battery day have clearly stated that they will start with top end fully equipped Cybertruck orders first, so 6 figure trucks that are no different than a GMC Hummer Pickup or the F150 Lighting Launch edition or what is know as the Launch Edition for the Chevrolet Silverado or GMC Sierra Launch Edition. All 6 figure trucks.

GM and Ford like Rivian will get to 5 figure trucks far faster than Tesla which has proven they truly have NO INTEREST in building cheap EVs. I doubt you will see a Cybertruck below 70-80 thousand dollars before 2026 when GM and Ford as well as Ram will be shipping their commercial EV editions.

On top of this, the Cybertruck will be a FAILURE as it is not a Real Truck but a Unibody Honda Ridgeline competitor that will not be able to haul the bulk of todays 5th wheels and other trailers as it was never designed or intended to support the real truck market.

Yes Tesla Fans will buy it, but the bulk of the truck market will not buy Tesla.

The Cybertruck has higher payload and towing than any gas or EV truck in the 1500 class.  Also has a bigger bed than any EV truck.  Sounds more capable than the rivals.

I think Elon’s 250-500k units per year is accurate, especially globally.  The Toyota Hilux is the #4 best selling vehicle in the world this year, outselling the F150.  Lot of truck buyers out there.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Cybertruck has higher payload and towing than any gas or EV truck in the 1500 class.  Also has a bigger bed than any EV truck.  Sounds more capable than the rivals.

Duh. That's because it's a 3500-class truck.

In Pennsylvania, that means $202 a year to register rather than $105 for a Silverado EV, along with higher insurance costs.

And AGAIN, it is a paper rating. The Silverado EV is capable of more, but the sticker is only set where it is to let it slip in as a 1500 series truck.  The fact that there will be an option that will exceed the Cybertruck's rating tells us this. It may get slighly heavier duty shocks and springs, but I expect the press release of the Silverado EV HD to be underwhelming in content.

Bed size really doesn't matter in the 1500 class under 8 feet and in the 3500 class, the Cybertruck gets beat by true 350/3500 trucks in payload capacity and bed size.

From a capability standpoint, the Cybertruck is the Nissan Titan HD of the truck world. Not quite a 3500, but priced like a high-end 2500. (Silverado 2500 HD High Country 6.6l Gas = $72,895).

And the range and capability of the Cybertruck that you keep parroting is only going to be for the higher-end models.  It's going to be a $110k+ vehicle to get the 500 mile range. The Silverado EV will get 450 for $30k less.

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Toyota Hilux is the #4 best selling vehicle in the world this year, outselling the F150.  Lot of truck buyers out there.

You can buy 4 Hiluxes for the price of one 500-mile Cybertruck. The math isn't mathing.

 

Edit: I forgot to add - the Silverado EV can accommodate an 8+ foot payload. The Cybertruck can't.  So yea, the Silverado EV beats it there.

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Duh. That's because it's a 3500-class truck.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? Are you getting it based on the payload/towing ratings plus the assumption that it has to weigh between X - X thousand pounds due to size/battery/motors? 

Or have they released an estimated weight already that I just haven't seen? 

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this? Are you getting it based on the payload/towing ratings plus the assumption that it has to weigh between X - X thousand pounds due to size/battery/motors? 

Or have they released an estimated weight already that I just haven't seen? 

From Tesla themselves in a letter to CARB:

Quote

While we have not yet begun production of the Cybertruck, we expect it to have a towing capacity of 7,500-14,000+ lbs., and it should very likely qualify as a “Class 2B-3” medium-duty vehicle.

There is no class "2b" in Pennsylvania. You get bumped into class 3.

But you can also simply math it. A Model-X plaid is 5,390. Even if we assume the Cybertruck will be the same weight (it won't) 5,390 + 3,500 is 8,890. That's Class 2b Federally and Class 3 in Pennsylvania.

But that would be just the 250-mile range model. Expect the 500-mile version to have double the battery of the Model-X Plaid, so an additional 1,200 lbs.  Now it's firmly in Federal Class 3 territory (Silverado HD 3500) and PA Class 4.

And those estimates are based on Model-X weights. Tesla themselves estimate a top curb weight of 6,500 lbs. (5,390+1,200= 6,590)

[smk4565]

The Silverado EV is said to weigh over 8,000 lbs.  And I bet the Silverado is heavier than the Cybertruck because after seeing Munro and Associates tear apart the Hummer battery, that Ultium pack is not weight efficient at all.  Tesla’s battery is more space and weight efficient than Ultium.  

[Drew Dowdell]

31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Silverado EV is said to weigh over 8,000 lbs.  And I bet the Silverado is heavier than the Cybertruck because after seeing Munro and Associates tear apart the Hummer battery, that Ultium pack is not weight efficient at all.  Tesla’s battery is more space and weight efficient than Ultium.  

Again. The payload rating is only for the sticker. Federally, the Silverado EV will be in the same class as the Silverado 1500.

The Silverado EV is 233 inches long and the Cybertruck is 231 inches long. But that means because the Cybertruck has a 6.5 ft bed rather than the 5.5 (without midgate) the Silverado EV has, the Silverado EV will have a larger passenger compartment.

While the Silverado EV has a larger "snout" like a conventional truck, look how far back from the windshield and front the driver sits in the Cybertruck.

That's all wasted space.

Giving me the same energy....

 

[G. David Felt]

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Cybertruck has higher payload and towing than any gas or EV truck in the 1500 class.  Also has a bigger bed than any EV truck.  Sounds more capable than the rivals.

I think Elon’s 250-500k units per year is accurate, especially globally.  The Toyota Hilux is the #4 best selling vehicle in the world this year, outselling the F150.  Lot of truck buyers out there.

 

How do you explain that the Pryamid angle of the truck and especially the bed means there is NOTHING out there from a bed camper to a 5th wheel that can work with this truck as it is NOT standard in anyway. On top of this, basic uses of a truck require a flat bed area which this does not have. Then you also have the same problem as the Rivian, a Unibody bed which means unlike the Ford, you cannot just simply replace the bed when it has damage.

Cybertruck will have the same extreme costs to repair as Rivian. Damage can be small, but repair of this Unibody truck will be expensive.

Rear-Ended Rivian Gets $42,000 Repair Bill | Rivian Forum – Rivian R1T & R1S News, Pricing & Order... (rivianownersforum.com)

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, David said:

How do you explain that the Pryamid angle of the truck and especially the bed means there is NOTHING out there from a bed camper to a 5th wheel that can work with this truck as it is NOT standard in anyway. On top of this, basic uses of a truck require a flat bed area which this does not have. Then you also have the same problem as the Rivian, a Unibody bed which means unlike the Ford, you cannot just simply replace the bed when it has damage.

Cybertruck will have the same extreme costs to repair as Rivian. Damage can be small, but repair of this Unibody truck will be expensive.

Rear-Ended Rivian Gets $42,000 Repair Bill | Rivian Forum – Rivian R1T & R1S News, Pricing & Order... (rivianownersforum.com)

Fun fact Ford discontinued beds for 2015-2021 F150s so if you need a bed replacement you have to buy a used one which is probably $10k because the salvage vendors know you can’t buy a new one.  Ford does still sell the side panels.

 Cybertruck will have accessories, I think there is already a camper add on for it.  
 

The Silverado EV is basically unibody too, it isn’t body on frame it is more unibody on battery pack.

[Drew Dowdell]

55 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cybertruck will have accessories, I think there is already a camper add on for it.

That's like selling phone cases before the phone is released.

56 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Silverado EV is basically unibody too, it isn’t body on frame it is more unibody on battery pack.

It's both. They have to come up with a new term for it. Technically, it's Unitized Body-on-Frame.  The latest Suburbans and Tahoes are set up like this too. Everything from the front to back on the body is now one welded piece and it all sits on a traditional frame.