Flint: Minivans Tell the GM, Ford Story

[regfootball]

It’s 17 years and they haven’t been able to get them right yet. And they don’t even care!

from car connection

more proof positive that really there needs to be some dead wood swept out of Detroit.

[regfootball]

Numbered days

Look at these numbers, the minivan sales figures for five months this year:

Chrysler 172,819

Town and Country 68,943

Dodge Caravan 103,876

Honda Odyssey 72,941

Toyota Sienna 67,404

General Motors 44,290

Chevy Uplander 25,610

Pontiac Montana SV6 10,533

Buick Terraza 5,339

Saturn Relay 2,808

Ford 30,445

Ford Windstar 28,634

Mercury Monterey 1,811

Kia Sedona 26,215

Nissan Quest 12,186

[regfootball]

If you can't even build a winning minivan, what good are you?

MY GOSH! THAT'S SO DEAD ON! such a brutal but deserved jab. I hope every Detroit decision maker reads this and lets it set in for awhile.....to go with

It's been 17 years since Chrysler's first minivan and GM and Ford haven't been able to figure out how to build a good one yet. And do they care? Has anyone been fired? Has anyone resigned in shame?

[regfootball]

I sent Flint a note thanking him for writing that article. I never do that almost.

[regfootball]

got a nice note back From Jerry Flint. It's nice to see he reads them. This was an excellent article.

[balthazar]

Post your note from Flintstone, reg. What did his wet nurse write?

[daves87rs]

Regardless, It is a dying market...

Just look at the up and coming "wagon" market...

It would hurt GM to have put more effort into the current minivans though...

[Imaj]

I've been inside an Uplander and damn, the storage places mounted on the roof were falling a part, did I mention it was on the dealer lot?

[Guest buickman]

Whether or not you agree with him, Jerry Flint is certainly one of the premier writers in the business. He has decades of experience and first hand knowledge from personal interaction with industry leaders. I look forward to his articles and have exchanged literally hundreds of emails with him. He can be obstinate and closed minded at times, but definitely deserves credit for being responsive and insightful.

Buickman

[Sixty8panther]

I don;t care abotu Minivans.... it's a dying market.

Most everyone who buys a Minivan because they

"need" one, actually wants a truck, sedan or a

crossover - combination of both.

Minivan's have a horrible stigmata and while they

have a legit and important role in the marketplace

they are neither high-profile or big sellers.

[Flybrian]

I don;t care abotu Minivans.... it's a dying market.

Most everyone who buys a Minivan because they

"need" one, actually wants a truck, sedan or a

crossover - combination of both.

Minivan's have a horrible stigmata and while they

have a legit and important role in the marketplace

they are neither high-profile or big sellers.

Are you Jerry Flint?

[evok]

I don;t care abotu Minivans.... it's a dying market.

Most everyone who buys a Minivan because they

"need" one, actually wants a truck, sedan or a

crossover - combination of both.

Minivan's have a horrible stigmata and while they

have a legit and important role in the marketplace

they are neither high-profile or big sellers.

Yea - 1.1 million minivans sold last year is a dieing market.

Too bad that was more volume than rwd cars, v8 cars and coupes put together.

[pow]

Yea - 1.1 million minivans sold last year is a dieing market.

Too bad that was more volume than rwd cars, v8 cars and coupes put together.

[The O.C.]

Regardless, It is a dying market...

Just look at the up and coming "wagon" market...

It would hurt GM to have put more effort into the current minivans though...

Hmmmm......all THEIR "effort" isn't hurting Toyota, Honda, or Kia...!

[Sixty8panther]

Too bad that was more volume than rwd cars, v8 cars and coupes put together.

Please show your work. Where did you get those numbers?

And even if that IS true: if sales = worthwhile vehicle than

you must LOVE the Camry & Accord.

[CARBIZ]

I know that minivans get no respect on this board; however, for 90% of the people out there a minivan is a far better choice than any SUV.

Not even the Tahoe can touch a minivan for ride, cost of ownership, versatility and just every day driving.

Hauling around 5 or 6 people in an Uplander (for example) will cost significantly less than a Trailblazer or Tahoe AND most likely will do the job better.

I mean, how many people actually tow with the damned things? I look at some 5' woman sitting alone in her Pathfinder and I think it is just silly.

Under the headline "Tyranny of the Enthusiasts," SUVs are freaks and I warrant that in 20 years we will look back at the '95-'05 SUV craze and shake our heads.

[evok]

Please show your work. Where did you get those numbers?

And even if that IS true: if sales = worthwhile vehicle than

you must LOVE the Camry & Accord.

Why don't you get off your a$$ and do the work. I get tired of always refuting BS statements like most of your posts around here with hard data. It is out there.

Use google! You seem to be pretty savy with a computer.

[Flybrian]

I would bet Evok's statement is pretty close. At Chrysler, for example, minivans outsold V8/RWD/coupes nearly 2-to-1. In fact, I would bet that only GM, Ford, and Nissan would've sold more of those cars than minivans.

And even if RWD cars, V8 cars, and coupes did outsell minivans in 2005 (which I actually think was the case if you break down all the numbers), they did so by such a slim margin that the message is clear. Also look at the sales trends of the big players in that segment - mostly down.

[Imaj]

The Minivan isn't dead, it's just that there are few good ones on the market. If the GM and Ford offered better Minivans you'd see the segment considerably.

Chevy should get a Lamba minivan and that's it, no Lambda Xovers for Chevy just a minivan, and hopefully it would be wider than the Uplander.

[regfootball]

Yea - 1.1 million minivans sold last year is a dieing market.

Too bad that was more volume than rwd cars, v8 cars and coupes put together.

THANKS!

i'll see if i can find what he wrote me

[NeonLX]

I'll keep buying minivans as long as they keep making them. They offer the most interior room for a given exterior size. They are major-league comfortable, get far better fuel economy than SUVs with similar interior room, and they are easy to configure for hauling either people, or stuff, or any combo of each. To top it off, they are usually priced well. I don't give a rat's @ss what other people think of me for driving a minivan--I love the thing. It's probably the best all-around vehicle out there (and that goes for any brand of minivan, though I don't personally like the Odyssey or the Quest).

[I hope GMRULES again]

He's bang on in this article and I don't think you need to have his experience to know it. Just makes you wonder WTF this guys are thinking. You would think somewhere along the line in the last 10 years some bigshot would raise his hand at a meeting and ask, any plans for a half decent Minivan in the works?

The same goes for small fuel efficeint cars. GM was never interested in building one of those either.

[CARBIZ]

The news hasn't been all BAD. When GM finally did come out with the Venture in '97 it was at least as good as the Chrysler. And GM did manage to get 2 sliding doors on it in '98, before Ford did on theirs. GM's fold and tumble seats (which they also had on the APV) were much better than Chrysler's solid bench seat that weighed a ton. By 2000, GM's vans were the best, IMO, but that is when the trouble started. Our vans languished, while Toyota and Honda finally figured it out.

So while the Venture stayed the same for 5 more model years, the Sienna and Odyssey got better and better.

I haven't seen any Canadian figures, but in our area, the Uplander is our #1 selling truck. We have sold 1 Tahoe and maybe 30 or so HHRs, but about 1/3 of our truck sales are Uplanders, followed closely by the Equinox.

We are paying over $4 a gallon up here, boys and girls.