Genesis News: Genesis believes the people still want FUN in a Car, welcome the X Concept Trilogy

[G. David Felt]

Is the X Concept Trilogy of EVs from Genesis winners?

March 2021 Los Angeles California during the great global Pandemic, Genesis revealed the first of their trilogy of EV concepts called the X Concept. Genesis had the following points to be said about this reveal.

• New model presents Genesis’ sustainable luxury in the form of an EV-based high-performance GT coupe concept car.
• Genesis partnered with award-winning director, Jason Bergh, to create the ‘Genesis X California’ film, highlighting the dynamism of California’s car culture, Genesis’ pioneering spirit, and the promise of a sustainable future for all.

Genesis X Concept

This GT (Gran Turismo) concept car uses the Two Lines theme styling that Genesis has become known for and is the future design language of Genesis EV models.

The press release stated that Genesis X is a combination of Genesis and the Letter X, which symbolizes a "hidden hero."

To quote SangYup Lee, head of Genesis Global Design. 

"The Genesis X Concept can be described as the ultimate vision of Athletic Elegance, the inherent design language of Genesis,"  "The signature Two Lines theme and sustainable luxury will be blueprints for the futuristic designs and state-of-the-art technologies that Genesis seeks to adopt in its future models."

From the Two-Lined Quad head lamps to the G-Matrix pattern three-dimensional Crest Grille, the focus is to accentuate the look of the future of electric automobiles that are fun to drive and a desire to own. This flow of design language is to create a sense of unity and flow.

The bottom front air vent intakes feature a thin and sophisticated mesh form that not only creates a sturdy impression, but also helps to cool down the vehicle, facilitating airflow, reducing air resistance, and helping to extend mileage.

The side follows the traditional GT model design with a long hood, short rear, and the two-lined lamps leading to the headlamps and taillights reinforcing the flow of the EV. The arching Parabolic Line that runs along the side, and the fender's maximized volume, create a dynamic and elegant impression while evoking the desire to be driven hard with passion.

The Genesis X Concept is painted in Lençóis blue, a color that Genesis developed, inspired by the lagoons of Maranhenses National Park in Brazil, a place where the lake forms only during the rainy season with an intense blue color due to the geological area.

 

Inspiring warmth, comfort, and control, the Genesis X Concept features a driver-oriented design, a cockpit that surrounds the driver with all operating systems and displays.

Genesis believes that differentiation of space by coloring the driver's seat in scotch brown and the passenger seat in ocean wave green blue helps to emphasize the car's unique design. The dashboard design for both driver and passenger is to create a sense of enveloping the passengers as well as the driver while using the floating center console to also give a sense of personal boundaries.

The application of Genesis Two-Lines design element is carried out in the slim, indirect air vents that surround passengers, as well as the side window molding, emphasizing the Two-Lines concept, providing a sense of unity with the exterior design.

The Free-Form display, manages various functions such as clusters, navigation and HVAC systems, and the Crystal Sphere Electronic Shift Lever, which integrates driving mode settings, add a high-tech atmosphere to the interior.

Genesis chose to go with an elegant, exposed metal seat frames to create a sense of athletic strength and integrate four-point seat belts into the bucket seats, optimized for driving.

April 2022 New York Genesis Debuts Genesis X Speedium Coupe

Genesis made the following points with this second of three Genesis X concepts reveal.

• The newly unveiled concept reflects Genesis’ principle of reductive design
• Genesis’ wings and Two Lines prominent in the design, while an hourglass silhouette gives the car its muscular presence
• Genesis announced plans to manufacture the Electric model of GV70 in the U.S. locally and roll out Genesis Priority One, a personalized GV60 purchase experience in select U.S. markets

Luc Donckerwolke, Genesis Chief Creative Officer stated the following:

"The Genesis X Speedium Coupe was born out of a “freestyle” design exercise based on the Genesis X Concept." " It inherits the timeless Genesis’ design philosophy, “Athletic Elegance,” in an even more progressive way."

X Speedium Coupe name was inspired by the passion for motorsports felt by the designers at the Korean racetrack. The Genesis X Speedium Coupe stands out for its restrained elegance, clean lines and subtle curves.

Genesis believes that an emotional value of driving will remain strong in the era of electrification, enjoyment of driving a car that can hug the road, carving up the asphalt turn after turn, smoothly transitioning from corner to corner while firmly holding oneself in place wrapped in luxury of sustainable materials.

Genesis X Speddium Coupe is painted in metallic emerald green shade, referred to as "Inje Green". This color is inspired by the Korean racetrack Inje Speedium race circuit, the green color of the area encompasses the mountainous landscape where the track is located. Genesis believes this color completes the image of a classic car that embodies dynamism, speed, and timeless elegance.

Welcome to the Speedium zone, where movement is made without moving.

Genesis X Speedium Coupe was on display at 2022 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, part of the Monterey Car Week. Reception was outstanding by the folks that attended.

Genesis public statement hit the following three points:

• The interior showcases the brand’s “Beauty of White Space” design ethos
• Driver-oriented layout amplifies driving experience for the EV era
• New sound architecture highlights Genesis' attention to detail, amplifying the value of in-car experiences of the future

At the time that the Speedium was revealed in New York, no interior access was available. From the time the car was revealed in NY to the time of showing it at Pebble beach, the interior was developed over those five months by the Genesis design group.

Genesis Chief Creative Officer Luc Donckerwolke stated the following:

“The X Speedium Coupe was conceived as an internal design exercise that we later decided to reveal publicly. It was nothing more than a hard model built on our Athletic Elegance design identity,”  “Given the positive reception it received at the event, we chose to complete the concept and present it to discerning attendees at the Pebble Beach Concours. The interior captures the Genesis brand’s “Beauty of White Space” design ethos, which suits various luxury lifestyles and adds to the appeal of the dynamic GT.”

Genesis had the following statement about the reveal of the Speedium interior.

Quote: 

The interior of the Genesis X Speedium Coupe leverages a classic Korean design principle known as “the Beauty of White Space.” Inspired by Korean architecture, this aligns closely with the ideology of reductive design and is expressed though a minimalist and pure form language punctuated by strong design elements.

The asymmetric, driver-oriented layout is a continuation of the theme found on Genesis’ more recent concept cars, in which all the control systems and displays surround the driver. The instrument panel and floating center console wrap around the driver cockpit, amplifying the driving experience in the era of electrification.

This effect is further accentuated by the interior’s contrasting color palette, which clearly distinguishes the driver’s area from the passenger space. The driver’s seating area is set in Pinegrove Green, which perfectly complements the Inje Green exterior. The contrasting Monterey Gold around the driver’s seat—a color inspired by the scenery along the Northern California coast—alludes to the yellow flowers and golden sand found in the region.

In addition, Genesis is exploring the future of audio experiences through a new sound architecture, which blends technology and art while highlighting the brand’s attention to detail. In collaboration with sound mater Guk-il Yu, the head of Metal Sound Design—a company that specializes in high-performance speakers—the X Speedium Coupe features strategically-placed speakers to fill the interior with rich sound.

Tweeters, midrange speakers, woofers and subwoofer are strategically positioned to provide the finest staging sound experience. The aluminum tweeters, which emit high-pitched sounds, were flawlessly crafted with a precision milling method to optimize acoustic performance.

The driver-focused cockpit has a curved OLED display that visualizes the heritage of high-performance cars. The cluster’s GUI includes a center-mounted motor output indicator designed in a “newtro” style, which is a stark contrast to the RPM gauges found in ICE models. The vertical display on the right side of the driver’s seat features an integrated touch display with an optimized UI design. The display includes the start button as well as the multimedia and vehicle control functions.

Genesis made the following statement, Craftmanship that Lives in the Details.

Quoting the press release about the interior: 

The X Speedium Coupe’s cargo area features X straps on top of the loading space, a detail inspired by the brand’s unique G-Matrix Pattern that underlines the dynamic coupe experience. This design feature was derived from the Genesis Mint Concept.

Another noteworthy detail is the leather—the material itself as well as its application. The quilted pattern on the leather seats and the door trim gives the impression of a classic sports car. Meanwhile, the steering wheel features cut-off leather that were salvaged from repurposed car seat materials and woven together.

Two types of leather were used in the interior: vegetable-tanned leather and an innovative new breathable grain leather. The vegetable-tanned leather is treated with plant-derived substances—such as citrus fruits and mimosa—and processed without chromium. Compared to ordinary leather, the breathable grain leather used in the upper part of the cabin requires less water and lower levels of chemicals to manufacture. The threads used in the finishing process are made from repurposed plastic, adding to the material’s durability and water resistance factors.

Genesis X Convertible, Completion of an Inspired Trilogy

The Genesis X Convertible completes the X Concept Trilogy and shares its architecture and electric powertrain with the X Concept and X Speedium Coup.

Genesis has demonstrated its electric power vehicle design versatility in this X Convertible and had the following two points to make.

• The interior design takes its inspiration from Korean roof architecture, which is a nod to both the brand’s origins as well as the most important aspect of convertible cars
• Combined with its folding hardtop roof—that integrates transparent moon roofs above the front occupants to provide an open feel even when closed—the architecture and powertrain sets the perfect stage to embrace the thrill of driving

Luc Donckerwolke, Chief Creative Officer had this to say: “Genesis started life by producing sedans mainly targeting business users. While creating a new, differentiated design DNA, we gradually increased the emotional appeal by applying this DNA to the SUV typology. Now, electric powertrains have given us the perfect scenario in which to enjoy nature, and propelled the brand to create vehicles with even greater emotional resonance,”

Genesis stated that the X Convertible Concept has ideal proportions that are complemented by design purity and exemplify the continued refinement in orchestrating design elements that make up Athletic Elegance, a beacon for the Genesis brand.

The X Convertible shares its architecture and electric powertrain with the X Concept and X Speedium Coupe. Combined with a folding hardtop roof, that integrates transparent moon roofs above the front occupants to provide an open feel even when closed. This architecture and powertrain sets the perfect stage to communicate with nature, allowing users to enjoy the environment in a new way, free from mechanical disturbance according to Genesis.

Genesis released the following statement: 

"The Genesis X Convertible concept’s long bonnet, generous dash-to-axle, short front overhang, and long wheelbase are drawn rearwards towards the long deck, accentuating its stately yet relaxed poise. The anti-wedge Parabolic Line emphasizes the regal character of the profile, creating tension between the full surfaces through a gently rearward-sloping horizontal belt line, while muscular blisters around the wheels form an athletic ‘Coke bottle’ plan view and integrate into an elegant silhouette when viewed from the side.

The characteristic quad lights—from which Genesis’ Two-Line graphic identity originates—are also present on the X Convertible concept. As in the X Speedium Coupe concept, this graphic identity integrates the new EV face and forms an abstract of the Crest Grille. The cooling function for the powertrain and batteries has been relocated to lower openings in the front bumper.

The rear end of the X Convertible concept features a concave elliptical duck tail intersected by horizontal quad rear lights, as seen on the X Concept and X Speedium Coupe concepts. The continuity of the elliptical shape is interrupted and crowned by a V-shape indentation that hints at the crest and wings of the Genesis logo.

The wheels are a combination of Genesis’ G-Matrix pattern orchestrated by an aero dish concave section. The spacers of this aero dish serve to extract heat from the brakes."

Genesis believes they have Captured the Korean Aesthetic Nuances of the Interior with the Exterior and had this statement about that belief.

"

The interior of the X Convertible concept features a driver-centric four-seat asymmetric layout—a consistent theme throughout all recent Genesis concept cars. Its wraparound instrument panel seamlessly integrates with the center console and cocoons the driver cockpit, emphasizing not only its performance-oriented attributes but its connection with the driver.

Inspired in part by traditional Korean roof architecture—a nod to both the brand’s origins as well as the most important aspect of convertibles—the interior design features Giwa Navy and Dancheong Orange colors, which lend the cabin a modern look and feel, befitting the car’s vibrant character.

The primary interior color is Giwa Navy—named after “Giwa”, the roof tiles on Korean houses. Made from recyclable wool fabric, the textured, woven pad graphic wraps around the cabin, contrasting with the smooth and sleek leather surfaces of the seats. Meanwhile, Dancheong Orange—named after the traditional decorative colorings on traditional Korean wooden buildings— serves as a bold accent color, encircling the cabin in a two-line motif and featuring on the stitching of the seats and fabric.

The Genesis X Convertible concept’s exterior is painted in Crane White. White cranes represent nobility and sanctity in Korea, and Genesis wanted to weave these cultural elements into its colorways. The result is an exterior surface coated in white with pearl particles, achieving a luxurious sheen that dynamically frames the contrasting interior."

Genesis believes that the X Convertible Concept is an open-air theater, providing unparalleled sensory experience for all occupants.

With an electric powertrain and high-performance premium sound system, the X Convertible offers freedom of expression and a heightened sensory experience.

Luc Donckerwolke, made this final statement:

“It is the normal development of Genesis to increase the athletic and emotional facet of our design philosophy by creating an emotional trilogy: the X family,” “Innovation is the catalyst to becoming more engaged with the environment around us. We are in the process of transitioning Genesis into a company that will deliver products for customers to enjoy.”

This leaves only one question that needs to be asked, Did Genesis deliver on that belief that these are fun cars that people would want?

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[oldshurst442]

My reaction to all three concepts, inside and out.

 

[oldshurst442]

My favorite of all three

 

 

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 I love all 3 and think they took what the early 800 series BMW coupe/convertible was and made it even better. Love the strong fender flares, and as they say athletic stance.

If I could fit, I would want one of these for a weekend cruiser.

[oldshurst442]

Genesis really has their game on.  Exterior styling on most offerings are sexy.  The interiors are just fantastic. Stylistically offering a variety of colour style and quality of materials.  Hyundai, KIA and Genesis are a force to be reckoned with.   Acura is sure feeling it. Ive said this before and Ill say it again, what Acura did to Pontiac and Oldsmobile in the 1990s Hyundai and Genesis is doing to Acura. 

General Motors better figure it out with Buick in North America real quick because Genesis will finish what the Japanese started and almost succeded in ending Buick.  GM decided to end Oldsmobile instead.     Infiniti as well.   It dont look good for Infiniti in North America either.    Mercedes better smarten up with their EVs  because I see Genesis screwing up Mercedes in North America as well.  Combine that with what Cadillac is going to do with EVs and Mercedes might end up where Cadillac was in the late 1990s and for the next 20 years...  

 

[smk4565]

The upside down triangle front grille looks stupid on the coupe and convertible but the rest of the design looks really good.  Hopefully they make both but the bean counters may only approve SUVs for production.  
 

Imagine if Cadillac did an Eldorado coupe and convertible like this rather than the Musiq, Lyriq, Majestiq, Fantastiq, Elastiq, line of crossovers thru have coming.  

[oldshurst442]

Now...when you finished imagining Cadillac and their choices, imagine Mercedes' engineers to put to good use their engineering chops and engineer a very sleepery drag coefficient EV without them looking like used bar of melted soap design language from the 1990s.  

 

[surreal1272]

8 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now...when you finished imagining Cadillac and their choices, imagine Mercedes' engineers to put to good use their engineering chops and engineer a very sleepery drag coefficient EV without them looking like used bar of melted soap design language from the 1990s.  

 

He won’t acknowledge that to the same level that he hurls phantom criticism towards Cadillac. Just more Mercedes fanboy loving nonsense. 

[surreal1272]

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The upside down triangle front grille looks stupid on the coupe and convertible but the rest of the design looks really good.  Hopefully they make both but the bean counters may only approve SUVs for production.  
 

Imagine if Cadillac did an Eldorado coupe and convertible like this rather than the Musiq, Lyriq, Majestiq, Fantastiq, Elastiq, line of crossovers thru have coming.  

You for the last "how many ever" years:

 

"Cadillac should ditch the letter and number naming and go back to actual names"

 

Also you:

 

"No. Not those names."

 

And you wonder why some folks here can't have a reasonable discussion with you.

[ccap41]

I mean, Cadillac did go with a horrific naming pattern here with their "iq" instead of the real words. I appreciate them not using the alphanumeric garbage but I also don't love the route they did choose.

[Robert Hall]

Beautiful....could you imagine automakers investing in beautiful 2dr coupes and convertibles instead of the usual CUVs...

[ccap41]

These really do look pretty damn good. There's something sliiiiightly off on the white one's nose but I don't think it would be difficult to tweak to look great. 

[smk4565]

11 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now...when you finished imagining Cadillac and their choices, imagine Mercedes' engineers to put to good use their engineering chops and engineer a very sleepery drag coefficient EV without them looking like used bar of melted soap design language from the 1990s.  

 

Mercedes engineers aren’t the problem, they engineer the best cars.  The problem is in the EQ design studio.  And the S-class has a .22 drag coefficient and doesn’t look like soap so it’s possible.

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You for the last "how many ever" years:

 

"Cadillac should ditch the letter and number naming and go back to actual names"

 

Also you:

 

"No. Not those names."

 

And you wonder why some folks here can't have a reasonable discussion with you.

Yeah names that make sense, like Eldorado.  

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

Beautiful....could you imagine automakers investing in beautiful 2dr coupes and convertibles instead of the usual CUVs...

I can imagine it, but don’t see them doing it.

[ccap41]

12 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The problem is in the EQ design studio.  And the S-class has a .22 drag coefficient and doesn’t look like soap so it’s possible.

They fudged up so bad with their EQ sedans.. 0.22 for an S Class sedan and .20 for a bar of soap?!? Why would that be a sacrifice worth making?! 

[G. David Felt]

I can still see Cadillac and others having all the CUVs for the masses who want a lifestyle EV to go and do what they want. I honestly can see with EVs the ability to have a small edition of cars made like what Genesis has done here for public reaction on desires of the cars.

Just as CELESTIQ will be a limited yearly production of a very custom car, I could also see like what Genesis has done here a convertible and hardtop GT Cadillacs for those that want a road trip car for a couple, rather than a family SUV.

ICE is overly complex, and the design of platforms has made profits hard on small quantity as well as small autos for U.S auto companies.

EVs could very well bring back the limited production of cars like these to Cadillac and Lincoln. 

[surreal1272]

34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes engineers aren’t the problem, they engineer the best cars.

Pure fanboy opinion with no basis of fact.

And it should be noted, regarding the naming schemes and made up words, that ALL words have been made up at some point. 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They fudged up so bad with their EQ sedans.. 0.22 for an S Class sedan and .20 for a bar of soap?!? Why would that be a sacrifice worth making?! 

I don't think so.  Hopefully when every Mercedes is EV, the classic design theme wins out and the EQ design theme is tossed in the trash.

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, David said:

I can still see Cadillac and others having all the CUVs for the masses who want a lifestyle EV to go and do what they want. I honestly can see with EVs the ability to have a small edition of cars made like what Genesis has done here for public reaction on desires of the cars.

Just as CELESTIQ will be a limited yearly production of a very custom car, I could also see like what Genesis has done here a convertible and hardtop GT Cadillacs for those that want a road trip car for a couple, rather than a family SUV.

ICE is overly complex, and the design of platforms has made profits hard on small quantity as well as small autos for U.S auto companies.

EVs could very well bring back the limited production of cars like these to Cadillac and Lincoln. 

The EV platform share could bring back more cars, plus range will be better on a car vs and SUV, which is why even these electric crossovers are fairly low in height compared to traditional SUVS.  But if it's high dollar and low volume, who really cars.  If Genesis builds this coupe and convertible they need to be G80 price range just like if Cadillac does a sedan/coupe/convertible EV it should be priced like a Lyriq.

The most impressive EV on the market right now is actually the Chevrolet Bolt, if they even get $3750 tax credit in 2023 and keep their price the same, then you are talking like $23k-28k price range for one, which is basically what you pay for an Elantra or Civic.  That's price parity and makes the Bolt a hell of a deal given the fuel savings too.  If this Genesis convertible is like $125,000, they'll sell 1,000 of them over 3 years then cancel it and never do it again.

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Pure fanboy opinion with no basis of fact.

And it should be noted, regarding the naming schemes and made up words, that ALL words have been made up at some point. 

And yet they build the most high tech luxury car (and segment leader for 50 years)

They also make he best off roader (that isn't a Unimog which they make too)

And they make the Nurburgring record holder and have the best performance car

No other brand even does all 3 (luxury, performance, off roader) let alone hit top of segment in all 3.   And won 8 consecutive F1 championships prior to this year (even though that's a whole separate group of engineers), so I think the engineering side is on point.  The EQ-line design team is where the improvement is needed.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

And yet they build the most high tech luxury car (and segment leader for 50 years)

They also make he best off roader (that isn't a Unimog which they make too)

And they make the Nurburgring record holder and have the best performance car

No other brand even does all 3 (luxury, performance, off roader) let alone hit top of segment in all 3.   And won 8 consecutive F1 championships prior to this year (even though that's a whole separate group of engineers), so I think the engineering side is on point.  The EQ-line design team is where the improvement is needed.

And yet if you're not an MB fan, most people would find these pictures of autos to be butt ugly and not impressive.

Maybe one should start with spelling and grammar as it is always interesting to see the mistakes one puts in their posts. 

Honestly good for MB at hitting those segments that are important to them, sadly, I think their time is up as the quality of their autos is lacking, design is lacking, they had to cheat on diesels which makes one question what else they cheated on including the autos posted here.

I do not see them continuing to lead in the EV generation as their current EVs are showing that.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

And yet they build the most high tech luxury car (and segment leader for 50 years)

They also make he best off roader (that isn't a Unimog which they make too)

And they make the Nurburgring record holder and have the best performance car

No other brand even does all 3 (luxury, performance, off roader) let alone hit top of segment in all 3.   And won 8 consecutive F1 championships prior to this year (even though that's a whole separate group of engineers), so I think the engineering side is on point.  The EQ-line design team is where the improvement is needed.

This Post has me thinking, if MB really was going to be the Best or Nothing of a Company, then they would be the leaders in all continent auto sales segments. Yet they are not. Other than Europe where thanks to the E-Series of Taxis that allows them to lead, many other companies are superior in sales and lead such as VW. 

For the biggest market in the world China, MB is in Decline globally and that has been happening for the last two decades.

Market shares automobile manufacturers (quest-trendmagazine.com)

To Quote: 

In 2000 only two companies belonged to the group of automakers with market share of 5% to below 10%, namely VOLKSWAGEN and Daimler Chrysler with market shares of 8.7% resp. 8.0%. Seventeen years later this group comprises half of the ten largest automakers. These are the manufacturers Hyundai, GM, Ford, Nissan and Honda. Daimler was already relegated from the group of the ten largest automakers.

These companies have surpassed MB

Interesting is that Mercedes has lost pretty much all leadership around the world except for just Germany and even then, they are only in second place, behind VW who sells far more autos than they do.

Car Sales by Country | Global Car Sales Data | 1. China 2. US (factorywarrantylist.com)

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, David said:

This Post has me thinking, if MB really was going to be the Best or Nothing of a Company, then they would be the leaders in all continent auto sales segments. Yet they are not. Other than Europe where thanks to the E-Series of Taxis that allows them to lead, many other companies are superior in sales and lead such as VW. 

For the biggest market in the world China, MB is in Decline globally and that has been happening for the last two decades.

Market shares automobile manufacturers (quest-trendmagazine.com)

To Quote: 

In 2000 only two companies belonged to the group of automakers with market share of 5% to below 10%, namely VOLKSWAGEN and Daimler Chrysler with market shares of 8.7% resp. 8.0%. Seventeen years later this group comprises half of the ten largest automakers. These are the manufacturers Hyundai, GM, Ford, Nissan and Honda. Daimler was already relegated from the group of the ten largest automakers.

These companies have surpassed MB

Interesting is that Mercedes has lost pretty much all leadership around the world except for just Germany and even then, they are only in second place, behind VW who sells far more autos than they do.

Car Sales by Country | Global Car Sales Data | 1. China 2. US (factorywarrantylist.com)

Market shares of main line brands, and makes sense that Mercedes-Benz has less market share than Daimler-Chrysler did since they sold off the volume side of that business.  Yet compare Mercedes global market share to Cadillac, Lincoln, Genesis, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus and it's a joke, they probably outsell all them combined.  And probably because Mercedes does the best luxury car, best off roader, and hypercar, they hit all the pillars.  Most of the luxury brands are crossover only or headed that way and some like Lincoln and Infiniti have basically no identity. 

[G. David Felt]

This speaks volumes about who the top auto companies are.

China car sales analysis 2019 - brands - carsalesbase.com

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Market shares of main line brands, and makes sense that Mercedes-Benz has less market share than Daimler-Chrysler did since they sold off the volume side of that business.  Yet compare Mercedes global market share to Cadillac, Lincoln, Genesis, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus and it's a joke, they probably outsell all them combined.  And probably because Mercedes does the best luxury car, best off roader, and hypercar, they hit all the pillars.  Most of the luxury brands are crossover only or headed that way and some like Lincoln and Infiniti have basically no identity. 

Yea, sucks that Mercedes / Daimler cannot compete with Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche. Clearly, they still do not know how to truly compete.

[surreal1272]

7 hours ago, David said:

This speaks volumes about who the top auto companies are.

China car sales analysis 2019 - brands - carsalesbase.com

Yea, sucks that Mercedes / Daimler cannot compete with Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche. Clearly, they still do not know how to truly compete.

What the fanboy doesn’t understand is that he, once again, is trying to upsell Benz by touting their worldwide sales while ignoring why. It’s because they have to sell in volume whereas Cadillac does not (it has been explained a thousand times why this is so I’m not going to dredge it up here again). That doesn’t mean they are superior much less the “best or nothing”. Keep wanting to charge folks monthly to unlock features they should only have to pay for once, and they won’t even have the volume to lean back on. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And probably because Mercedes does the best luxury car, best off roader, and hypercar, they hit all the pillars.

Instant contradiction. So your reasoning for this worldwide sales "dominance" is because of three vehicles that are extremely "low volume" and sell less in one year than their VOLUME C-Class sells in one month? Sorry, but that's not how it works at all and you know that.

 

Man, your fanboy logic knows no bounds but the contradiction is right there for all to see. 

 

BTW, all three examples are BEYOND simple fanboy opinion. Two of the three (and possibly all three) are definitely NOT the best. 

 

The G Wagen doesn't even crack the top 3 here.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/top-10-best-4x4s-off-road-cars

 

or here...

https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/suvs/off-road/

 

or here...

https://www.hotcars.com/best-and-most-overrated-off-roaders/

 

Again, your fanboy opinion is just that...opinion and not even one supported by reasonable data. 

 

[ccap41]

I'm not going to try and say the G Wagen is the best off-roader, because Broncos, Wranglers, Raptors, and TRXs exist. But there's no doubting a vehicle with solid axles(Prior to the current gen, now just a solid rear axle), transfer case, and three locking diffs isn't one of the best off roaders. All it REALLY needs from the factory is some off-road tires with some sidewall.

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

or here...

https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/suvs/off-road/

What a joke of a list. They site the Palisade as #1 and Seltos as #2 and a Travers as #5. Wrangler is #7 on a best off roaders list behind mostly AWD CUVs. 

[surreal1272]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm not going to try and say the G Wagen is the best off-roader, because Broncos, Wranglers, Raptors, and TRXs exist. But there's no doubting a vehicle with solid axles(Prior to the current gen, now just a solid rear axle), transfer case, and three locking diffs isn't one of the best off roaders. All it REALLY needs from the factory is some off-road tires with some sidewall.

What a joke of a list. They site the Palisade as #1 and Seltos as #2 and a Travers as #5. Wrangler is #7 on a best off roaders list behind mostly AWD CUVs. 

What to miss the point made to SMK by a country mile. Yes, the third one is a bit silly but it was one of three that showed that various publications (and there were more) don't feel the G-Wagen is the best off roader as SMK states. Your cherry picking of this does not change that fact.

 

Since you wanted to troll it though, here is another article detailing their top list and the Benz doesn't even crack their top five. 

https://www.iseecars.com/articles/best-suvs-for-off-roading

Edited November 23, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

What to miss the point made to SMK by a country mile. Yes, the third one is a bit silly but it was one of three that showed that various publications (and there were more) don't feel the G-Wagen is the best off roader as SMK states. Your cherry picking of this does not change that fact.

Maybe you also missed where I agreed with you and said it wasn't the best. 

I was just saying the list/source was shet. You're better than siting a source of off-roaders where #1 & #2 are AWD CUVs. 

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Maybe you also missed where I agreed with you and said it wasn't the best. 

Again, not the point. Maybe you missed that.

 

And you don't get to play internet posting police after your many accusations towards me about it, end of story. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Again, not the point. Maybe you missed that.

Your point wasn't that the G Wagen wasn't the best? Then WTF was your point? 

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And you don't get to play internet posting police after your many accusations towards me about it, end of story.

Okay. Please continue telling me what to do here while siting trash-@ss sources. 

[G. David Felt]

Not going to get into the he said, he said debate.

The only thing is that I agree with @surreal1272 that be it respectable sites that cover true hardcore offroad 4x4 or silly sites that cover AWD CUVs with 4x4s and still also list that the G-Wagon is not the best. There is a consistent thread here that pretty much all the sites no matter being hardcore, general or silly list siting mixes of autos do not see the G-Wagon as a benchmark for 4x4s.

Clearly when you see the number of Jeeps, Fords, GMs, Toyota and Hyundai to name a few all the time off-roading and yet finding a G-Wagon slumming with the wranglers, broncos, trailblazers, etc. that speaks volumes. 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

What the fanboy doesn’t understand is that he, once again, is trying to upsell Benz by touting their worldwide sales while ignoring why. It’s because they have to sell in volume whereas Cadillac does not (it has been explained a thousand times why this is so I’m not going to dredge it up here again). That doesn’t mean they are superior much less the “best or nothing”. Keep wanting to charge folks monthly to unlock features they should only have to pay for once, and they won’t even have the volume to lean back on. 

But as I pointed out they make segment leaders.  Cadillac and Genesis don’t make a sports car, don’t make a convertible and don’t make an off roader.

Cadillac and Genesis aren’t low global volume because they are only building high end cars like Porsche, they are building small to midsize sedans and crossovers.  Both those brands would like more volume, but they don’t have the distribution network or brand image to really make that happen.

[smk4565]

The G63 4x4 Squared (that i posted a picture of) is the most capable off roader.  It’s the only production vehicle with portal axles.  From the factory, it’s the best off roader, also the most luxurious.  
 

And sure you can get a Bronco Raptor then buy a lift kit and portal axel conversion kit and snorkel and a crap ton of aftermarket parts and build it up for less than half what a G63 4x4 costs, but I was talking factory vehicle.

[surreal1272]

15 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The G63 4x4 Squared (that i posted a picture of) is the most capable off roader.  It’s the only production vehicle with portal axles.  From the factory, it’s the best off roader, also the most luxurious.  
 

And sure you can get a Bronco Raptor then buy a lift kit and portal axel conversion kit and snorkel and a crap ton of aftermarket parts and build it up for less than half what a G63 4x4 costs, but I was talking factory vehicle.

Again, you one fanboy opinion versus the well researched opinions of folks who have actually driven and tested them. Gee, whom do I choose to believe here?

[surreal1272]

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But as I pointed out they make segment leaders.  Cadillac and Genesis don’t make a sports car, don’t make a convertible and don’t make an off roader.

So, just move the bar (yet again) when you get called out on the facts?

 

Got it.

 

This is what you said,

"And probably because Mercedes does the best luxury car, best off roader, and hypercar, they hit all the pillars.

 

 

Notice no mention of "sports cars" or "convertibles" or any mention of "X" brand not having them (which is wrong BTW since, again, Benz competes with GM as a whole and not just Benz and has the other two covered with the Vette and Hummer EV). Either stick to your original statement and admit you may be wrong or saying noting at all (perhaps) but stop moving the bar to try and convince everyone (yet again) that Mercedes is so superior when they are clearly not.

[ccap41]

Oh Gee, those guys tested and compared a Palisade and Seltos off-road to a Wrangler and Bronco and came to the conclusion that the Seltos and Palisade are better? 

In all seriousness, I forgot about the 4X4(squared). I also have never read/seen a comparison with that and the Bronco/Wrangler. It certainly has all of the necessary hardware to be the best OEM off-roader. 

[surreal1272]

22 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Oh Gee, those guys tested and compared a Palisade and Seltos off-road to a Wrangler and Bronco and came to the conclusion that the Seltos and Palisade are better? 

"I'm not trying to be an asshole but..."

 

By all means, make your childish joke while ignoring the OVERALL (and proven) message.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

Of course, the bigger message here is about Genesis and not Mercedes fanboys and trolling by the usual suspects. I don't like all the designs here but, overall, I like the aggressive approach to the market shown by them. I do dig the coupe. The profile reminds my of the 1990s BMW M1 (about the only BMW I have liked over the years).

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

By all means, make your childish joke while ignoring the OVERALL (and proven) message.

You mean the one I agreed with? See below. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I'm not going to try and say the G Wagen is the best off-roader, because Broncos, Wranglers, Raptors, and TRXs exist.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Oh Gee, those guys tested and compared a Palisade and Seltos off-road to a Wrangler and Bronco and came to the conclusion that the Seltos and Palisade are better? 

In all seriousness, I forgot about the 4X4(squared). I also have never read/seen a comparison with that and the Bronco/Wrangler. It certainly has all of the necessary hardware to be the best OEM off-roader. 

The 4x4 squared is also $359,000 so not much points comparing it to a Wrangler.  Would be like a sports car comparison of a Ferrari and a Mustang.  

[smk4565]

Genesis operates only in high volume segments with the exception of the G90 which really exists for South Korean government officials and business people that don’t want to use a European car.  
 

But despite operating in volume segments, Genesis has low volume.  I don’t see how they make a business case for building a coupe or convertible that are by nature low volume. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The 4x4 squared is also $359,000 so not much points comparing it to a Wrangler.

Umm, the other three articles highlighted only the stock G-Wagen. The one Cherry Picker brought up was the outlier. The bigger point in all the article is that the G-Wagen was not considered the best off-roader. 
 

Thanks for playing. 

[G. David Felt]

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis operates only in high volume segments with the exception of the G90 which really exists for South Korean government officials and business people that don’t want to use a European car.  
 

But despite operating in volume segments, Genesis has low volume.  I don’t see how they make a business case for building a coupe or convertible that are by nature low volume. 

Yet Mercedes also competes in the same segement as the cars and CUVs that Cadillac, Lincoln, Genesis, Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. play in. Auto reviewers consistently praise everyone more than Mercedes.

Seems the Luster has worn off the Best or Nothing.

In regard to GENESIS as this thread was all about, Mercedes has NOTHING in Concepts to compete with this X Concept Trilogy.

END OF LINE!

[smk4565]

9 hours ago, David said:

Yet Mercedes also competes in the same segement as the cars and CUVs that Cadillac, Lincoln, Genesis, Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. play in. Auto reviewers consistently praise everyone more than Mercedes.

Seems the Luster has worn off the Best or Nothing.

In regard to GENESIS as this thread was all about, Mercedes has NOTHING in Concepts to compete with this X Concept Trilogy.

END OF LINE!

Mercedes makes 3 coupes and 3 convertibles right now although the C and E coupe/Convertibles are merging into the CLE.  The Genesis convertible will likely never see production as they look at Lexus LC sales and must think anything they make will sell half what a Lexus does.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes makes 3 coupes and 3 convertibles right now although the C and E coupe/Convertibles are merging into the CLE.  The Genesis convertible will likely never see production as they look at Lexus LC sales and must think anything they make will sell half what a Lexus does.

Totally missing the point, but since you are moving the goal post and now went to sales to justify yourself, let's look at those sales.

2021 (Full Year) USA: Mercedes-Benz Car Sales by Model - Car Sales Statistics (best-selling-cars.com)

Considering the negatives, I would not be so fast to say that coupe/convertible sales are on fire at Mercedes. Seems the Best or Nothing might as well be NOTHING with these sales numbers. 

Maybe GENESIS has a better looking, better designed Coupe/Convertible. It is Far superior looking than the EQ product line as Blahness. 

In this regards, Genesis wins.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes makes 3 coupes and 3 convertibles right now although the C and E coupe/Convertibles are merging into the CLE.  The Genesis convertible will likely never see production as they look at Lexus LC sales and must think anything they make will sell half what a Lexus does.

And treating all things equal, there is no business case these days for 3 coupes and 3 convertibles and sales data backs this up. 
 

(Knocks goalpost down and heads off for some good eatin’)

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, David said:

Totally missing the point, but since you are moving the goal post and now went to sales to justify yourself, let's look at those sales.

2021 (Full Year) USA: Mercedes-Benz Car Sales by Model - Car Sales Statistics (best-selling-cars.com)

Considering the negatives, I would not be so fast to say that coupe/convertible sales are on fire at Mercedes. Seems the Best or Nothing might as well be NOTHING with these sales numbers. 

Maybe GENESIS has a better looking, better designed Coupe/Convertible. It is Far superior looking than the EQ product line as Blahness. 

In this regards, Genesis wins.

Genesis has never sold 1 coupe or convertible.  (unless you count that Hyundai Genesis coupe sports car that was killed off since that didn't sell so well).  Genesis in 2022 is being outsold by Lincoln and JLR.  Not sure how Genesis is winning.  

I think the concepts look pretty good except for the grille area, and I think they should put them into production, but I doubt they do because they won't get enough volume to make money on it if they are like $75,000.  The Mercedes SL outsold the GV60 in 2022 Q3, 841 to 806.  If a small crossover at the lower end of the brands pricing is doing that low of a volume, imagine what a convertible higher up in price would do, it'd be like 50-100 cars a quarter.  

[surreal1272]

6 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis has never sold 1 coupe or convertible.

 By your logic, Mercedes should not be able to succeed with EVs, since they've never sold one before a few years ago. Keep being proven wrong by Genesis though lol.

[G. David Felt]

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis has never sold 1 coupe or convertible.  (unless you count that Hyundai Genesis coupe sports car that was killed off since that didn't sell so well).  Genesis in 2022 is being outsold by Lincoln and JLR.  Not sure how Genesis is winning.  

I think the concepts look pretty good except for the grille area, and I think they should put them into production, but I doubt they do because they won't get enough volume to make money on it if they are like $75,000.  The Mercedes SL outsold the GV60 in 2022 Q3, 841 to 806.  If a small crossover at the lower end of the brands pricing is doing that low of a volume, imagine what a convertible higher up in price would do, it'd be like 50-100 cars a quarter.  

Genesis wins as they have actual working Prototype EV Concepts. Where is Mercedes?